Goodbye Poor Japan...

[kflaux]

I agree with Silhouette. Radiation is invisible.

Indeed, radiation is invisible. You can't see, hear, feel, taste or touch it. It is natural to be nervous about its possible presence.

BTW I did some of my graduate work in physics at a nuclear reactor facility in Japan, since decommissioned.

However:

The disaster in Fuchishima was worse than Chernobyl. We have not been told the truth. I believe the true measure of the effects of that disaster have yet to be seen.

Well, the J gov't and the utility running the reactors (Tokyo Electric Power aka TEPCO) both did quite a bit of dissembling in the aftermath.

However, to my knowledge there are as yet no deaths attributed to the Fukushima disaster. Whereas there were 31 immediate deaths at Chernobyl, and an unknown number of others who died due to radiation poisoning. Other casualty figures are in similar proportions.

So there is no basis, at least in terms of human lives, to say that Fukushima was "worse" than Chernobyl. Far from it.

 

[Silhouette]

Well, the J gov't and the utility running the reactors (Tokyo Electric Power aka TEPCO) both did quite a bit of dissembling in the aftermath.

However, to my knowledge there are as yet no deaths attributed to the Fukushima disaster. Whereas there were 31 immediate deaths at Chernobyl, and an unknown number of others who died due to radiation poisoning. Other casualty figures are in similar proportions.

So there is no basis, at least in terms of human lives, to say that Fukushima was "worse" than Chernobyl. Far from it.

Only that four reactors melted down at Fukushima instead of just one at Chernobyl. And that Fukushima is on a tiny population-packed island nation who's total landmass is roughly the same size as the Chernobyl exclusion zone..

From the scale we see that Chernobyl's exclusion zone is about 400x300 average width which is 120,000 square miles. Japan looks to be about 1,000 miles by average width of 150 which is 150,000 square miles.

Only Japan has how many more people than the Chernobyl exclusion zone? And FOUR reactors melted down into their main food source (seafood).

 

[westwall]

Well, the J gov't and the utility running the reactors (Tokyo Electric Power aka TEPCO) both did quite a bit of dissembling in the aftermath.

However, to my knowledge there are as yet no deaths attributed to the Fukushima disaster. Whereas there were 31 immediate deaths at Chernobyl, and an unknown number of others who died due to radiation poisoning. Other casualty figures are in similar proportions.

So there is no basis, at least in terms of human lives, to say that Fukushima was "worse" than Chernobyl. Far from it.

Only that four reactors melted down at Fukushima instead of just one at Chernobyl. And that Fukushima is on a tiny population-packed island nation who's total landmass is roughly the same size as the Chernobyl exclusion zone..

That's true. However that one reactor was big, and had no containment and the people that died the fastest were those that were standing on the bridge looking right at the reactor as it burned. They died within a few weeks. That's how radiation works, the truly lethal stuff is the ionizing radiation and that has a very short half life. The longer the half life, the less you have to worry about the isotope.

The shorter the half life, the more energetic the isotope, and thus it is also more dangerous. The only way people can be harmed by the stuff in Japan now is if they ingest it.

 

[kflaux]

Only that four reactors melted down at Fukushima instead of just one at Chernobyl. And that Fukushima is on a tiny population-packed island nation who's total landmass is roughly the same size as the Chernobyl exclusion zone.

As westwall noted, the one Chernobyl reactor was much larger, and the meltdown event much more spectacular.

From the scale we see that Chernobyl's exclusion zone is about 400x300 average width which is 120,000 square miles. Japan looks to be about 1,000 miles by average width of 150 which is 150,000 square miles.

This in large part reflects the overly cautious attitude of the Japanese versus the Soviet bloc attitude of that time, and the desire in the latter case to play down the seriousness of the event.

(The J gov't and TEPCO likewise wanted to minimize it all, but Japan being a democracy and blessed with freedom of the press, this was generally not possible.)

In any case I think actual death/casualty figures are a more objective measure of the scale of the tragedy, at least in human rather than financial terms.

 

[theDoctorisIn]

Well, the J gov't and the utility running the reactors (Tokyo Electric Power aka TEPCO) both did quite a bit of dissembling in the aftermath.

However, to my knowledge there are as yet no deaths attributed to the Fukushima disaster. Whereas there were 31 immediate deaths at Chernobyl, and an unknown number of others who died due to radiation poisoning. Other casualty figures are in similar proportions.

So there is no basis, at least in terms of human lives, to say that Fukushima was "worse" than Chernobyl. Far from it.

Only that four reactors melted down at Fukushima instead of just one at Chernobyl. And that Fukushima is on a tiny population-packed island nation who's total landmass is roughly the same size as the Chernobyl exclusion zone..

From the scale we see that Chernobyl's exclusion zone is about 400x300 average width which is 120,000 square miles. Japan looks to be about 1,000 miles by average width of 150 which is 150,000 square miles.

Only Japan has how many more people than the Chernobyl exclusion zone? And FOUR reactors melted down into their main food source (seafood).

The Chernobyl Exclusion Zone is 2,600 sq. km.

The nation of Japan is 377,000 sq. km.

The map you are using is not of the actual exclusion zone, but of the radioactivity levels in 1996.

 

[Unkotare]

And that Fukushima is on a tiny population-packed island nation.

Is Germany "tiny"?

 

[Unkotare]

I note that the evacuation of Tokyo predicted by some loon here has yet to take place.

 

[Silhouette]

That's true. However that one reactor was big, and had no containment and the people that died the fastest were those that were standing on the bridge looking right at the reactor as it burned. They died within a few weeks. That's how radiation works, the truly lethal stuff is the ionizing radiation and that has a very short half life. The longer the half life, the less you have to worry about the isotope.

The shorter the half life, the more energetic the isotope, and thus it is also more dangerous. The only way people can be harmed by the stuff in Japan now is if they ingest it.

The immediate deaths are not the concern. It's the 200,000 years cleanup project afterwards. You most definitely have to worry about radioactive plutonium's long half-life. Ingesting it includes ingesting the sea life that are gobbling it up as they swim. And drinking contaminated ground water. Ever check up on Japan's eating habits? Might want to look into that.

 

[Unkotare]

How's the evacuation going, genius?

 

[Mad Scientist]

My J-Wife is convinced that my Cancer is a result of my trip to Tokyo last November, though I'm not.
A Japanese Physician Is Encouraging the Evacuation of Tokyo VICE United States

 

[Silhouette]

My J-Wife is convinced that my Cancer is a result of my trip to Tokyo last November, though I'm not.
A Japanese Physician Is Encouraging the Evacuation of Tokyo VICE United States

This seems like an excellent time to remind everyone of the children of Chernobyl and the effects that eating tainted food and drinking radioactive ground water can have on a surrounding population. Keep in mind as you look, that the bulk of Japan's food supply comes from the immediate surrounding oceans and how tiny their island is. It is almost the same size as the nuclear exclusion zone in Chernobyl only with like a zillion times the population density...

4 reactors melted down at Fukushima vs just one at Chernobyl..

"
Tensions are rising in Japan over radioactive water leaking into the Pacific Ocean from Japan's crippled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant, a breach that has defied the plant operator's effort to gain control...

..TEPCO, which has come under severe criticism since what many view as its belated acknowledgement July 22 that contaminated water has been leaking for some time. The government now says it is clear that 300 tons (71,895 gallons/272,152 liters) are pouring into the sea...

...Shunichi Tanaka, head of Japan’s Nuclear Regulation Authority, has told reporters that it’s probably been happening since an earthquake and tsunami touched off the disaster in March 2011. (See related: "Photos: A Rare Look Inside Fukushima Daiichi.") According to a report by the French Institute for Radiological Protection and Nuclear Safety, that initial breakdown caused "the largest single contribution of radionuclides to the marine environment ever observed."...

...But even after the immediate crisis eased, scientists have continued to find radioactive contamination in the waters off the plant. Ken Buesseler, a senior scientist with the Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution who has analyzed thousands of samples of fish from the area, said he’s continued to find the high levels of cesium-134...

...Scientists who have been studying the situation were not surprised by the revelation, since radiation levels in the sea around Japan have been holding steady and not falling as they would if the situation were under control. In a 2012 study, Jota Kanda, an oceanographer at Toyko University of Marine Science and Technology, calculated that the plant is leaking 0.3 terabecquerels (trillion becquerels) of cesium-137 per month and a similar amount of cesium-134. Fukushima s Radioactive Water Leak What You Should Know

 

[Unkotare]

1) Is Germany "tiny"?

2) People in Japan do not subsist on an exclusive diet of seafood

3) Neither Tokyo, nor any other region of Japan is going to be evacuated because of this

 

[Silhouette]

A reminder for Mr. Anti Chicken Little on the gravity and scope of the sitaution...

Four reactors melted down at Fukushima instead of just one at Chernobyl. Fukushima is on a tiny population-packed island nation who's total landmass is roughly the same size as the Chernobyl exclusion zone..

From the scale we see that Chernobyl's exclusion zone is about 400x300 average width which is 120,000 square miles. Japan looks to be about 1,000 miles by average width of 150 which is 150,000 square miles.

Only Japan has how many more people than the Chernobyl exclusion zone? And FOUR reactors melted down into their main food source (seafood).

It's a pretty stupid ass way for a nation sitting on the world's third largest geothermal power reserve to boil water to run turbines. Thanks for selling them on that GE...

 

[Unkotare]

Chicken Little addresses none of the points in my post. He just opts for more spam.

 

[SteadyMercury]

Yep he appears to have decided putting his hands over ears, shutting eyes, and chanting the same thing is the best path here.

How is the evacuation going anyway? Has been what 10 months since Silhouette announced it is happening, surely we'd see a noticeable change in population by now.

 

[Silhouette]

Yep he appears to have decided putting his hands over ears, shutting eyes, and chanting the same thing is the best path here.

How is the evacuation going anyway? Has been what 10 months since Silhouette announced it is happening, surely we'd see a noticeable change in population by now.

The evacuation of the Chernobly site or the evacuation of the site of roughly the same size (the Japanese archipelago) with three more reactors that melted down over Chernobyl's one? The Chernobyl evacuation was handled very quickly as I understand it. The Japanese one is not happening at all...officially..

 

[SteadyMercury]

The Japanese one is not happening at all...officially..

Hmm this seems quite different from your earlier hysterics of "Wow. Just wow. Tokyo gone. Hard to believe. "

Gasp! You mean Tokyo might still be there?

 

[Unkotare]

The Japanese one is not happening at all...officially..

You're an idiot...officially.

 

[SteadyMercury]

Goodbye Poor Japan...

God damn it! I had a chance to visit Tokyo some years back and turned it down. Now it will be a footnote in history.

Wow. Just wow. Tokyo gone. Hard to believe

Hi! Recently saw some coverage of the Tokyo 2015 Marathon and since we're coming up on a year since your informative thread though I'd check in again... is Tokyo still gone?

Looks gonzo to me.

 

[Moonglow]

Goodbye Poor Japan...

God damn it! I had a chance to visit Tokyo some years back and turned it down. Now it will be a footnote in history.

Wow. Just wow. Tokyo gone. Hard to believe

Hi! Recently saw some coverage of the Tokyo 2015 Marathon and since we're coming up on a year since your informative thread though I'd check in again... is Tokyo still gone?

Looks gonzo to me.

I can't tell, they all look the same to me....