Gun owners face much higher murder risk....NRA kills study

[Nosmo King]

Ask the NRA

They killed the study

The study was done wasn't it?

The results have to be out there somewhere

The NRA squelched any money to have the study published and distributed.

So why does a government agency have to do the study? surely one of those progressive control freak organizations can foot the bill for it.

So that the dismissal on political grounds can be waved. Would you have any trust in a study conducted by a think tank with political motivation? Would a study by the NRA produce only the conclusions they desire?

Why not as long as the data is available to anyone who wants to confirm the findings. Isn't that the way science is supposed to work?

Do you trust any research not done by government?

I trust academia and non partisan government. Beyond that, conclusions can be massaged to deliver an intended conclusion.

 

[SwimExpert]

What everyone has known for decades, having a gun in your home does not make you safer

Gun owners face much higher murder risks researchers said. Then the NRA silenced them.

The most common reason that people have a gun is because they have it for home protection,” he says. “Unfortunately, the data indicates that having a gun is associated with both an increased risk of homicide, but even more importantly, an increased risk of suicide. We know that, for example, if there’s a gun in the home, the risk of suicide among adolescents and young adults increases tenfold.”
Back in 1993, Rivara and his colleagues released this information in a series of articles that appeared in the New England Journal of Medicine, one of the most highly respected medical journals in the world. The NRA quickly went after the research — as well as Rivara and his colleagues.
Rivara says 10 pro-gun senators worked to get the ear of Arlen Specter, then a senator from Pennsylvania and chairman of the Health and Human Services Committee.
“[Specter] approached the Centers for Disease and Control and discussed the idea that this research was biased,” says Rivara. Congress “ended up cutting the CDC budget by the exact amount of money that was used to fund the gun research. They had first threatened to cut all of the funding for injury research at the CDC. They didn’t do that, but they ended up cutting it by the exact amount that was spent on gun research.”

Correlation does not imply causation.

 

[SuperDemocrat]

What everyone has known for decades, having a gun in your home does not make you safer

Gun owners face much higher murder risks researchers said. Then the NRA silenced them.

The most common reason that people have a gun is because they have it for home protection,” he says. “Unfortunately, the data indicates that having a gun is associated with both an increased risk of homicide, but even more importantly, an increased risk of suicide. We know that, for example, if there’s a gun in the home, the risk of suicide among adolescents and young adults increases tenfold.”
Back in 1993, Rivara and his colleagues released this information in a series of articles that appeared in the New England Journal of Medicine, one of the most highly respected medical journals in the world. The NRA quickly went after the research — as well as Rivara and his colleagues.
Rivara says 10 pro-gun senators worked to get the ear of Arlen Specter, then a senator from Pennsylvania and chairman of the Health and Human Services Committee.
“[Specter] approached the Centers for Disease and Control and discussed the idea that this research was biased,” says Rivara. Congress “ended up cutting the CDC budget by the exact amount of money that was used to fund the gun research. They had first threatened to cut all of the funding for injury research at the CDC. They didn’t do that, but they ended up cutting it by the exact amount that was spent on gun research.”



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I bet suicides have gone up since Obama has taken over. How come we are not banning Obama. Also, if guns increase suicides then we should buy one for the president and every other liberal we know.

 

[Freemason9]

women rarely use guns...too damaging to the body...we do want to leave a good looking corpse....so that seems to be a man thing...the guns for suicide ....

i just do not understand why anti gun people get so rabid over MY having guns in my home....i just dont see that its your business what i have in my home..isnt it still my castle..and if you rush my moat dont i have a right to self defense...that is what i do not get....the anti gun people want to take my rights to self defense....i do not live in an area where police are all around....it can take a hot 15 minutes or so if they are all on the other side of the county.....so you can be left with quite a time gap there....what do you suggest when one is attacked in one's home...what do you think one should do?

I'm not even sure who you're arguing with. I think your "anti gun" crowd represents a straw man argument. I am quite liberal, but I don't care if you have a gun in your home or not--it's YOUR risk, not mine. I think you're getting all worked up because you listen to Retard Radio.

i was replying to the op...perhaps you read it.....and i am a liberal....and yes its is my risk and none of your business....and what is retard radio? enlighten me....since you have the answers

and yet no one addresses why i dont have a right to self defense?

I don't think anyone here has tried to deny your "right of self defense." Knock yourself out, I don't care. That's my point; by and large, nobody cares. I think the outrage is manufactured by corporate media.

Speaking of corporate media, Retard Radio is the "outrage industry" propagated by the likes of Limbaugh, Lavine, Hannity, and a slew of other propagandists of the right.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

If you're afraid of guns then don't get one. Problem solved.

 

[westwall]

What everyone has known for decades, having a gun in your home does not make you safer

Gun owners face much higher murder risks researchers said. Then the NRA silenced them.

The most common reason that people have a gun is because they have it for home protection,” he says. “Unfortunately, the data indicates that having a gun is associated with both an increased risk of homicide, but even more importantly, an increased risk of suicide. We know that, for example, if there’s a gun in the home, the risk of suicide among adolescents and young adults increases tenfold.”
Back in 1993, Rivara and his colleagues released this information in a series of articles that appeared in the New England Journal of Medicine, one of the most highly respected medical journals in the world. The NRA quickly went after the research — as well as Rivara and his colleagues.
Rivara says 10 pro-gun senators worked to get the ear of Arlen Specter, then a senator from Pennsylvania and chairman of the Health and Human Services Committee.
“[Specter] approached the Centers for Disease and Control and discussed the idea that this research was biased,” says Rivara. Congress “ended up cutting the CDC budget by the exact amount of money that was used to fund the gun research. They had first threatened to cut all of the funding for injury research at the CDC. They didn’t do that, but they ended up cutting it by the exact amount that was spent on gun research.”



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Yeah, they looked at ownership, but not what the owner did for a living. In other words the study was fatally flawed from the beginning. Remember, CORRELATION DOES NOT EQUAL CAUSATION!

 

[martybegan]

again, is the data still available via an FOI request?

I'm not sure.

Then how about you find out before you accuse the NRA of "blocking" this information from getting out?

I know the heavy hand of the NRA is involved in squelching the study. I'm not sure if the data is compiled and in publishable form

So only the government can compile and publish it?

Government conducted the study. Would you have raw data compiled by a politically motivated organization?

Considering the CDC is a federal executive agency, and we have a gun grabber as the executive, it would be politically motivated if it came from the CDC anyway.

 

[SwimExpert]

If you're afraid of guns then don't get one. Problem solved.

That would be too much like freedom.

Of course, the only gun you should ever be afraid of is the one that's pointed at you.

 

[martybegan]

A link would be nice...but thanks for showing us that none of your gun control measures will keep criminals from getting the guns they want or need.......for example....the most...freinds or family...the people who can pass background checks get the guns for the felons.....so even Universal background checks and gun registration will fail.......retail store...again...freinds and family....gun show......if they can't pass a background check you can't keep people from selling them guns if they are willing to go to jail if caught....

So again...all of the categories above show that there are no ways to preemptively keep guns out of the hands of criminals......

The best way....if you catch someone using a gun illegally.....arrest them and put them in jail....problem solved...

If you catch a convicted felon in possession of a gun....arrest them and put them in prison...problem solved...

No extra paperwork, no more hassles for law abiding gun owners....but that isn't what you guys want is it.....you could care less about the criminals....you just want to go after Americans who own guns....

That is why we need registration

"Borrow" a gun from your cousin and use in in a crime and your cousin is charged as an accessory

Won't find as many people willing to loan guns to criminals

Just as soon as everyone has to register their computers, their typewriters (if people still have them), their iPADS, and their voices, basically anything that could allow a person to exercise their 1st amendment rights.

We can also make women register their wombs, you know, to protect their abortion rights under Roe V. Wade.

 

[ogibillm]

So were the guns lawfully owned? Did the gun owners have criminal records?


Or are these people just piece of shit scumbags?

As usual your so called polls are lacking much relevant info.

Try thinking this through.

Your questions are off topic and not relevant.

Sure it's relevant. If Leroy the crip member owns a gun and gets his dumbass killed,I hardly think that he should be listed as a gun owner.
And I find it strange that living in Texas and knowing a crap load of gun owners that not a single one has been shot accidentally or otherwise.
Could it be that I dont know any street thugs and dont frequent the ghetto?

So none of your friends hunt with dick cheney?

 

[timslash]

Very good thread!
And also, i think it's time to think about necessity of guns. As we can see, most angry gun owners, also understood that guns don't make your life safe, but i'm surprised that some people here, still don't wanna listen arguments...

 

[Liminal]

What everyone has known for decades, having a gun in your home does not make you safer

Gun owners face much higher murder risks researchers said. Then the NRA silenced them.

The most common reason that people have a gun is because they have it for home protection,” he says. “Unfortunately, the data indicates that having a gun is associated with both an increased risk of homicide, but even more importantly, an increased risk of suicide. We know that, for example, if there’s a gun in the home, the risk of suicide among adolescents and young adults increases tenfold.”
Back in 1993, Rivara and his colleagues released this information in a series of articles that appeared in the New England Journal of Medicine, one of the most highly respected medical journals in the world. The NRA quickly went after the research — as well as Rivara and his colleagues.
Rivara says 10 pro-gun senators worked to get the ear of Arlen Specter, then a senator from Pennsylvania and chairman of the Health and Human Services Committee.
“[Specter] approached the Centers for Disease and Control and discussed the idea that this research was biased,” says Rivara. Congress “ended up cutting the CDC budget by the exact amount of money that was used to fund the gun research. They had first threatened to cut all of the funding for injury research at the CDC. They didn’t do that, but they ended up cutting it by the exact amount that was spent on gun research.”



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Gun control is a losing issue for Democrats, they should let it go. Unless they really want to increase their chances of losing in 2016.

It is a losing issue for democrat politicians...that is why they are going to the courts.....if hilary wins election she will probably appoint more justices to the Supreme Court than any other President in a long time.......and they will not be Pro Bill of Rights........so democrat politicians can pretend to be pro gun all day long as their minions on the court cut away at gun ownership.....

They've done such a good job destroying the Fourth Amendment with the Patriot Act, so this probably looks like a good time to start tearing apart the Second.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

So were the guns lawfully owned? Did the gun owners have criminal records?


Or are these people just piece of shit scumbags?

As usual your so called polls are lacking much relevant info.

Try thinking this through.

Your questions are off topic and not relevant.

Sure it's relevant. If Leroy the crip member owns a gun and gets his dumbass killed,I hardly think that he should be listed as a gun owner.
And I find it strange that living in Texas and knowing a crap load of gun owners that not a single one has been shot accidentally or otherwise.
Could it be that I dont know any street thugs and dont frequent the ghetto?

So none of your friends hunt with dick cheney?

Fortunately no.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Very good thread!
And also, i think it's time to think about necessity of guns. As we can see, most angry gun owners, also understood that guns don't make your life safe, but i'm surprised that some people here, still don't wanna listen arguments...

I've had to use one to defend myself and my wife.
So yes in certain cases they do make you safer.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Actually this study was debunked years ago. And rightwinger keeps bringing it up every several months in hopes we will forget.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Actually this study was debunked years ago. And rightwinger keeps bringing it up every several months in hopes we will forget.

Short term memory loss..hmmmm.
Needs to cut back on the medical marijuana.

 

[Skull Pilot]

The study was done wasn't it?

The results have to be out there somewhere

The NRA squelched any money to have the study published and distributed.

So why does a government agency have to do the study? surely one of those progressive control freak organizations can foot the bill for it.

So that the dismissal on political grounds can be waved. Would you have any trust in a study conducted by a think tank with political motivation? Would a study by the NRA produce only the conclusions they desire?

Why not as long as the data is available to anyone who wants to confirm the findings. Isn't that the way science is supposed to work?

Do you trust any research not done by government?

I trust academia and non partisan government. Beyond that, conclusions can be massaged to deliver an intended conclusion.

Not if the data is made available

 

[2aguy]

Very good thread!
And also, i think it's time to think about necessity of guns. As we can see, most angry gun owners, also understood that guns don't make your life safe, but i'm surprised that some people here, still don't wanna listen arguments...

I've had to use one to defend myself and my wife.
So yes in certain cases they do make you safer.

What are you talking about....more people now own and actually carry guns for protection......and the gun murder rate is going down, not up......and the gun accident rate and the accidental gun death rate are going down, not up....and those aren't facts from the NRA, those are stats and facts from the FBI and the CDC......

So you obviously are new to this debate....and for 1.6 million Americans a year, on average, who use guns to stop or prevent violent criminal attack and save lives....yeah, they would say that gun made them safer.......vs.....8-9,000 gun murders a year........which number is larger.....?

 

[2aguy]

What everyone has known for decades, having a gun in your home does not make you safer

Gun owners face much higher murder risks researchers said. Then the NRA silenced them.

The most common reason that people have a gun is because they have it for home protection,” he says. “Unfortunately, the data indicates that having a gun is associated with both an increased risk of homicide, but even more importantly, an increased risk of suicide. We know that, for example, if there’s a gun in the home, the risk of suicide among adolescents and young adults increases tenfold.”
Back in 1993, Rivara and his colleagues released this information in a series of articles that appeared in the New England Journal of Medicine, one of the most highly respected medical journals in the world. The NRA quickly went after the research — as well as Rivara and his colleagues.
Rivara says 10 pro-gun senators worked to get the ear of Arlen Specter, then a senator from Pennsylvania and chairman of the Health and Human Services Committee.
“[Specter] approached the Centers for Disease and Control and discussed the idea that this research was biased,” says Rivara. Congress “ended up cutting the CDC budget by the exact amount of money that was used to fund the gun research. They had first threatened to cut all of the funding for injury research at the CDC. They didn’t do that, but they ended up cutting it by the exact amount that was spent on gun research.”



.



.

Yeah, they looked at ownership, but not what the owner did for a living. In other words the study was fatally flawed from the beginning. Remember, CORRELATION DOES NOT EQUAL CAUSATION!

Yes....gun deaths in the home have more to do with alcohol and drug abuse and wether or not their is a criminal living in the home...or a history of domestic abuse....the gun is irrelevant....just ask the woman from Illinois who fled to Wisconsin to escape her husband....he found her and killed her with a 9.00 dollar hatchet.........no guns for the victim or the killer....she really, really could have used a gun......

 

[2aguy]

And of course obama commissioned the CDC in 2013 to look at all the available research on guns.....spent 10 million dollars on the project....didn't turn out the way he wanted it to.......they found people use guns to defend themselves...a lot.........

From an article on the CDC study....from Slate....not the NRA....

Handguns suicides mass shootings deaths and self-defense Findings from a research report on gun violence.

2. Most indices of crime and gun violence are getting better, not worse. “Overall crime rates have declined in the past decade, and violent crimes, including homicides specifically, have declined in the past 5 years,” the report notes. “Between 2005 and 2010, the percentage of firearm-related violent victimizations remained generally stable.” Meanwhile, “firearm-related death rates for youth ages 15 to 19 declined from 1994 to 2009.” Accidents are down, too: “Unintentional firearm-related deaths have steadily declined during the past century. The number of unintentional deaths due to firearm-related incidents accounted for less than 1 percent of all unintentional fatalities in 2010.”




7. Guns are used for self-defense often and effectively. “Almost all national survey estimates indicate that defensive gun uses by victims are at least as common as offensive uses by criminals, with estimates of annual uses ranging from about 500,000 to more than 3 million per year … in the context of about 300,000 violent crimes involving firearms in 2008,” says the report. The three million figure is probably high, “based on an extrapolation from a small number of responses taken from more than 19 national surveys.” But a much lower estimate of 108,000 also seems fishy, “because respondents were not asked specifically about defensive gun use.” Furthermore, “Studies that directly assessed the effect of actual defensive uses of guns (i.e., incidents in which a gun was 'used' by the crime victim in the sense of attacking or threatening an offender) have found consistently lower injury rates among gun-using crime victims compared with victims who used other self-protective strategies.”