Happy Confederate Memorial Day Texans

[g5000]

Don't let the Left rewrite history. The war was not about slavery, it was about forcing states to remain part of a confederation that they had withdrawn from.

Abraham Lincoln's Letter to Horace Greeley

Executive Mansion,
Washington, August 22, 1862.

Hon. Horace Greeley:
Dear Sir.

I have just read yours of the 19th. addressed to myself through the New-York Tribune. If there be in it any statements, or assumptions of fact, which I may know to be erroneous, I do not, now and here, controvert them. If there be in it any inferences which I may believe to be falsely drawn, I do not now and here, argue against them. If there be perceptable in it an impatient and dictatorial tone, I waive it in deference to an old friend, whose heart I have always supposed to be right.

As to the policy I "seem to be pursuing" as you say, I have not meant to leave any one in doubt.

I would save the Union. I would save it the shortest way under the Constitution. The sooner the national authority can be restored; the nearer the Union will be "the Union as it was." If there be those who would not save the Union, unless they could at the same time save slavery, I do not agree with them. If there be those who would not save the Union unless they could at the same time destroy slavery, I do not agree with them. My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone I would also do that. What I do about slavery, and the colored race, I do because I believe it helps to save the Union; and what I forbear, I forbear because I do not believe it would help to save the Union. I shall do less whenever I shall believe what I am doing hurts the cause, and I shall do more whenever I shall believe doing more will help the cause. I shall try to correct errors when shown to be errors; and I shall adopt new views so fast as they shall appear to be true views.

I have here stated my purpose according to my view of official duty; and I intend no modification of my oft-expressed personal wish that all men every where could be free.

Yours,
A. Lincoln.

"If slavery is not wrong, nothing is wrong." - Abraham Lincoln

Letter by Abraham Lincoln to Albert Hodges

www.abrahamlincolnonline.org

 

[g5000]

Don't let the Left rewrite history. The war was not about slavery, it was about forcing states to remain part of a confederation that they had withdrawn from.

Horseshit. It is the cowardly racists who are rewriting history. The seceding states mentioned slavery as the cause no less than 82 times in their declarations of secession. They had the courage to admit it, unlike you spineless dumb fucks today.

You are seriously stupid.

"Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world."

A Declaration of the Immediate Causes which Induce and Justify the Secession of the State of Mississippi from the Federal Union.​

​

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

Why do you hate White men?

I am glad you recognize the amount of loathing for the South and enslavement of humans in a rape culture perpetuated by white males.

 

[Chillicothe]

"I literally quoted President Lincoln saying that the war had nothing to do with slavery and everything to do with keeping the Union together."

Notably, others believe differently.

For example, there is this from Lincoln's masterpiece, his 2nd Inaugural Address, which, notably, is carved in marble in the Lincoln Memorial in Washington DC.

"Both parties deprecated war but one of them would make war rather than let the nation survive, and the other would accept war rather than let it perish. And the war came.

"One eighth of the whole population were colored slaves not distributed generally over the union but localized in the southern part of it. These slaves constituted a peculiar and powerful interest. All knew that this interest was somehow the cause of the war. To strengthen perpetuate and extend this interest was the object for which the insurgents would rend the Union even by war while the government claimed no right to do more than to restrict the territorial enlargement of it."

 

[g5000]

It is downright schizophrenic how the tards start a topic at least once a month to say the slavers were racist Democrats.

Then the next minute, they claim the civil war was not about slavery as they decorate their homes and trucks with the racist Democrat Confederate flag!

As I always say, cognitive dissonance requires actual cognition.

 

[LeroyDumonde]

"If slavery is not wrong, nothing is wrong." - Abraham Lincoln

Letter by Abraham Lincoln to Albert Hodges

www.abrahamlincolnonline.org

What does this letter have to do with the topic of the thread?

 

[g5000]

What does this letter have to do with the topic of the thread?

You made a half-assed statement about Lincoln.

I provided you a fuller picture.

Then you made an even dumber statement about the Civil War not being about slavery, and I provided you an education.

"Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world."

 

[Chillicothe]

"The Confederates weren't traitors. So what does treason have anything to do with the Civil War?"

I suppose if we understand what treason is, what traitors do .....we will all recognize that, yes, of course........the rebellion starting in 1860 was treason. Duh!!

"In the United States, there are both federal and state laws prohibiting treason.[1] Treason is defined on the federal level in Article III, Section 3 of the United States Constitution as: "only in levying War against [the United States], or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort."


And, but for the magnanimity of Abe Lincoln and Ulysses Grant.....Lee, Longstreet, Davis, and a whole passel of others.......would have swung from the same scaffold at the federal penitentiary at the Old Arsenal that Mary Surrat, et al, swung from.
(btw, that spot is now a tennis courtyard, fwiw.)

 

[LeroyDumonde]

You made a half-assed statement about Lincoln.

I let Lincoln speak in his own words.

I provided you a fuller picture.

Not much. His reluctance to accept blacks into the military bolsters his point about the war being about keeping the Southern states in the Union.

Then you made an even dumber statement about the Civil War not being about slavery, and I provided you an education.

"Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world."

You're confusing secession with the Civil War.

 

[LeroyDumonde]

I suppose if we understand what treason is, what traitors do .....we will all recognize that, yes, of course........the rebellion starting in 1860 was treason. Duh!!

"In the United States, there are both federal and state laws prohibiting treason.[1] Treason is defined on the federal level in Article III, Section 3 of the United States Constitution as: "only in levying War against [the United States], or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort."
And, but for the magnanimity of Abe Lincoln and Ulysses Grant.....Lee, Longstreet, Davis, and a whole passel of others.......would have swung from the same scaffold at the federal penitentiary at the Old Arsenal.
(btw, that spot is now a tennis courtyard, fwiw.)
View attachment 890604

I've already explained with this argument is wrong. The states seceded so treason would be impossible. You can't commit treason against a country that you're not part of. That would be like saying that British soldiers during the War of 1812 were committing treason because they levied war against the United States.

 

[LeroyDumonde]

Horseshit. It is the cowardly racists who are rewriting history. The seceding states mentioned slavery as the cause no less than 82 times in their declarations of secession. They had the courage to admit it, unlike you spineless dumb fucks today.

You are seriously stupid.

"Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world."

A Declaration of the Immediate Causes which Induce and Justify the Secession of the State of Mississippi from the Federal Union.​

​

Once again, you're confusing secession with the Civil War. You are seriously stupid.

 

[g5000]

Don't let the Left rewrite history. The war was not about slavery

A declaration of the causes which impel the State of Texas to secede from the Federal Union​

​

The government of the United States, by certain joint resolutions, bearing date the 1st day of March, in the year A.D. 1845, proposed to the Republic of Texas, then a free, sovereign and independent nation, the annexation of the latter to the former as one of the co-equal States thereof,

The people of Texas, by deputies in convention assembled, on the fourth day of July of the same year, assented to and accepted said proposals and formed a constitution for the proposed State, upon which on the 29th day of December in the same year, said State was formally admitted into the Confederated Union.

Texas abandoned her separate national existence and consented to become one of the Confederated States to promote her welfare, insure domestic tranquility [sic] and secure more substantially the blessings of peace and liberty to her people. She was received into the confederacy with her own constitution, under the guarantee of the federal constitution and the compact of annexation, that she should enjoy these blessings. She was received as a commonwealth holding, maintaining and protecting the institution known as negro slavery--the servitude of the African to the white race within her limits--a relation that had existed from the first settlement of her wilderness by the white race, and which her people intended should exist in all future time. Her institutions and geographical position established the strongest ties between her and other slave-holding States of the confederacy. Those ties have been strengthened by association. But what has been the course of the government of the United States, and of the people and authorities of the non-slave-holding States, since our connection with them?

The controlling majority of the Federal Government, under various pretences and disguises, has so administered the same as to exclude the citizens of the Southern States, unless under odious and unconstitutional restrictions, from all the immense territory owned in common by all the States on the Pacific Ocean, for the avowed purpose of acquiring sufficient power in the common government to use it as a means of destroying the institutions of Texas and her sister slave-holding States.

By the disloyalty of the Northern States and their citizens and the imbecility of the Federal Government, infamous combinations of incendiaries and outlaws have been permitted in those States and the common territory of Kansas to trample upon the federal laws, to war upon the lives and property of Southern citizens in that territory, and finally, by violence and mob law, to usurp the possession of the same as exclusively the property of the Northern States.

The Federal Government, while but partially under the control of these our unnatural and sectional enemies, has for years almost entirely failed to protect the lives and property of the people of Texas against the Indian savages on our border, and more recently against the murderous forays of banditti from the neighboring territory of Mexico; and when our State government has expended large amounts for such purpose, the Federal Government has refused reimbursement therefor, thus rendering our condition more insecure and harrassing than it was during the existence of the Republic of Texas.

These and other wrongs we have patiently borne in the vain hope that a returning sense of justice and humanity would induce a different course of administration.

When we advert to the course of individual non-slave-holding States, and that [of] a majority of their citizens, our grievances assume far greater magnitude.

The States of Maine, Vermont, New Hampshire, Connecticut, Rhode Island, Massachusetts, New York, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Wisconsin, Michigan and Iowa, by solemn legislative enactments, have deliberately, directly or indirectly violated the 3rd clause of the 2nd section of the 4th article of the federal constitution, and laws passed in pursuance thereof; thereby annulling a material provision of the compact, designed by its framers to perpetuate amity between the members of the confederacy and to secure the rights of the slave-holdings States in their domestic institutions--a provision founded in justice and wisdom, and without the enforcement of which the compact fails to accomplish the object of its creation. Some of those States have imposed high fines and degrading penalties upon any of their citizens or officers who may carry out in good faith that provision of the compact, or the federal laws enacted in accordance therewith.

In all the non-slave-holding States, in violation of that good faith and comity which should exist between entirely distinct nations, the people have formed themselves into a great sectional party, now strong enough in numbers to control the affairs of each of those States, based upon the unnatural feeling of hostility to these Southern States and their beneficent and patriarchal system of African slavery, proclaiming the debasing doctrine of the equality of all men, irrespective of race or color--a doctrine at war with nature, in opposition to the experience of mankind, and in violation of the plainest revelations of the Divine Law. They demand the abolition of negro slavery throughout the confederacy, the recognition of political equality between the white and the negro races, and avow their determination to press on their crusade against us, so long as a negro slave remains in these States.

For years past this abolition organization has been actively sowing the seeds of discord through the Union, and has rendered the federal congress the arena for spreading firebrands and hatred between the slave-holding and non-slave-holding States.

By consolidating their strength, they have placed the slave-holding States in a hopeless minority in the federal congress, and rendered representation of no avail in protecting Southern rights against their exactions and encroachments.

They have proclaimed, and at the ballot box sustained, the revolutionary doctrine that there is a "higher law" than the constitution and laws of our Federal Union, and virtually that they will disregard their oaths and trample upon our rights.

They have for years past encouraged and sustained lawless organizations to steal our slaves and prevent their recapture, and have repeatedly murdered Southern citizens while lawfully seeking their rendition.

They have invaded Southern soil and murdered unoffending citizens, and through the press their leading men and a fanatical pulpit have bestowed praise upon the actors and assassins in these crimes, while the governors of several of their States have refused to deliver parties implicated and indicted for participation in such offences, upon the legal demands of the States aggrieved.

They have, through the mails and hired emissaries, sent seditious pamphlets and papers among us to stir up servile insurrection and bring blood and carnage to our firesides.

They have sent hired emissaries among us to burn our towns and distribute arms and poison to our slaves for the same purpose.

They have impoverished the slave-holding States by unequal and partial legislation, thereby enriching themselves by draining our substance.

They have refused to vote appropriations for protecting Texas against ruthless savages, for the sole reason that she is a slave-holding State.

And, finally, by the combined sectional vote of the seventeen non-slave-holding States, they have elected as president and vice-president of the whole confederacy two men whose chief claims to such high positions are their approval of these long continued wrongs, and their pledges to continue them to the final consummation of these schemes for the ruin of the slave-holding States.

In view of these and many other facts, it is meet that our own views should be distinctly proclaimed.

We hold as undeniable truths that the governments of the various States, and of the confederacy itself, were established exclusively by the white race, for themselves and their posterity; that the African race had no agency in their establishment; that they were rightfully held and regarded as an inferior and dependent race, and in that condition only could their existence in this country be rendered beneficial or tolerable.

That in this free government all white men are and of right ought to be entitled to equal civil and political rights; that the servitude of the African race, as existing in these States, is mutually beneficial to both bond and free, and is abundantly authorized and justified by the experience of mankind, and the revealed will of the Almighty Creator, as recognized by all Christian nations; while the destruction of the existing relations between the two races, as advocated by our sectional enemies, would bring inevitable calamities upon both and desolation upon the fifteen slave-holding States.

By the secession of six of the slave-holding States, and the certainty that others will speedily do likewise, Texas has no alternative but to remain in an isolated connection with the North, or unite her destinies with the South.

For these and other reasons, solemnly asserting that the federal constitution has been violated and virtually abrogated by the several States named, seeing that the federal government is now passing under the control of our enemies to be diverted from the exalted objects of its creation to those of oppression and wrong, and realizing that our own State can no longer look for protection, but to God and her own sons--We the delegates of the people of Texas, in Convention assembled, have passed an ordinance dissolving all political connection with the government of the United States of America and the people thereof and confidently appeal to the intelligence and patriotism of the freemen of Texas to ratify the same at the ballot box, on the 23rd day of the present month.

Adopted in Convention on the 2nd day of Feby, in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and sixty-one and of the independence of Texas the twenty-fifth.

 

[LeroyDumonde]

It is downright schizophrenic how the tards start a topic at least once a month to say the slavers were racist Democrats.

You're saying that they weren't racist Democrats? Please expand on this.

Then the next minute, they claim the civil war was not about slavery

It wasn't. It was about forcing the Confederate states back into the Union.

as they decorate their homes and trucks with the racist Democrat Confederate flag!

As I always say, cognitive dissonance requires actual cognition.

There's no schizophrenia or cognitive dissonance on my part.

 

[g5000]

"These Southern States and their beneficent and patriarchal system of African slavery".

"Beneficient" slavery. Wow.

 

[g5000]

There's no schizophrenia or cognitive dissonance on my part.

Yes, exactly. That would require cognition. My whole point.

Schizophrenia. Delusions. Definitely.

 

[LeroyDumonde]

A declaration of the causes which impel the State of Texas to secede from the Federal Union​

​

The government of the United States, by certain joint resolutions, bearing date the 1st day of March, in the year A.D. 1845, proposed to the Republic of Texas, then a free, sovereign and independent nation, the annexation of the latter to the former as one of the co-equal States thereof,

The people of Texas, by deputies in convention assembled, on the fourth day of July of the same year, assented to and accepted said proposals and formed a constitution for the proposed State, upon which on the 29th day of December in the same year, said State was formally admitted into the Confederated Union.

Texas abandoned her separate national existence and consented to become one of the Confederated States to promote her welfare, insure domestic tranquility [sic] and secure more substantially the blessings of peace and liberty to her people. She was received into the confederacy with her own constitution, under the guarantee of the federal constitution and the compact of annexation, that she should enjoy these blessings. She was received as a commonwealth holding, maintaining and protecting the institution known as negro slavery--the servitude of the African to the white race within her limits--a relation that had existed from the first settlement of her wilderness by the white race, and which her people intended should exist in all future time. Her institutions and geographical position established the strongest ties between her and other slave-holding States of the confederacy. Those ties have been strengthened by association. But what has been the course of the government of the United States, and of the people and authorities of the non-slave-holding States, since our connection with them?

The controlling majority of the Federal Government, under various pretences and disguises, has so administered the same as to exclude the citizens of the Southern States, unless under odious and unconstitutional restrictions, from all the immense territory owned in common by all the States on the Pacific Ocean, for the avowed purpose of acquiring sufficient power in the common government to use it as a means of destroying the institutions of Texas and her sister slave-holding States.

By the disloyalty of the Northern States and their citizens and the imbecility of the Federal Government, infamous combinations of incendiaries and outlaws have been permitted in those States and the common territory of Kansas to trample upon the federal laws, to war upon the lives and property of Southern citizens in that territory, and finally, by violence and mob law, to usurp the possession of the same as exclusively the property of the Northern States.

The Federal Government, while but partially under the control of these our unnatural and sectional enemies, has for years almost entirely failed to protect the lives and property of the people of Texas against the Indian savages on our border, and more recently against the murderous forays of banditti from the neighboring territory of Mexico; and when our State government has expended large amounts for such purpose, the Federal Government has refused reimbursement therefor, thus rendering our condition more insecure and harrassing than it was during the existence of the Republic of Texas.

These and other wrongs we have patiently borne in the vain hope that a returning sense of justice and humanity would induce a different course of administration.

When we advert to the course of individual non-slave-holding States, and that [of] a majority of their citizens, our grievances assume far greater magnitude.

The States of Maine, Vermont, New Hampshire, Connecticut, Rhode Island, Massachusetts, New York, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Wisconsin, Michigan and Iowa, by solemn legislative enactments, have deliberately, directly or indirectly violated the 3rd clause of the 2nd section of the 4th article of the federal constitution, and laws passed in pursuance thereof; thereby annulling a material provision of the compact, designed by its framers to perpetuate amity between the members of the confederacy and to secure the rights of the slave-holdings States in their domestic institutions--a provision founded in justice and wisdom, and without the enforcement of which the compact fails to accomplish the object of its creation. Some of those States have imposed high fines and degrading penalties upon any of their citizens or officers who may carry out in good faith that provision of the compact, or the federal laws enacted in accordance therewith.

In all the non-slave-holding States, in violation of that good faith and comity which should exist between entirely distinct nations, the people have formed themselves into a great sectional party, now strong enough in numbers to control the affairs of each of those States, based upon the unnatural feeling of hostility to these Southern States and their beneficent and patriarchal system of African slavery, proclaiming the debasing doctrine of the equality of all men, irrespective of race or color--a doctrine at war with nature, in opposition to the experience of mankind, and in violation of the plainest revelations of the Divine Law. They demand the abolition of negro slavery throughout the confederacy, the recognition of political equality between the white and the negro races, and avow their determination to press on their crusade against us, so long as a negro slave remains in these States.

For years past this abolition organization has been actively sowing the seeds of discord through the Union, and has rendered the federal congress the arena for spreading firebrands and hatred between the slave-holding and non-slave-holding States.

By consolidating their strength, they have placed the slave-holding States in a hopeless minority in the federal congress, and rendered representation of no avail in protecting Southern rights against their exactions and encroachments.

They have proclaimed, and at the ballot box sustained, the revolutionary doctrine that there is a "higher law" than the constitution and laws of our Federal Union, and virtually that they will disregard their oaths and trample upon our rights.

They have for years past encouraged and sustained lawless organizations to steal our slaves and prevent their recapture, and have repeatedly murdered Southern citizens while lawfully seeking their rendition.

They have invaded Southern soil and murdered unoffending citizens, and through the press their leading men and a fanatical pulpit have bestowed praise upon the actors and assassins in these crimes, while the governors of several of their States have refused to deliver parties implicated and indicted for participation in such offences, upon the legal demands of the States aggrieved.

They have, through the mails and hired emissaries, sent seditious pamphlets and papers among us to stir up servile insurrection and bring blood and carnage to our firesides.

They have sent hired emissaries among us to burn our towns and distribute arms and poison to our slaves for the same purpose.

They have impoverished the slave-holding States by unequal and partial legislation, thereby enriching themselves by draining our substance.

They have refused to vote appropriations for protecting Texas against ruthless savages, for the sole reason that she is a slave-holding State.

And, finally, by the combined sectional vote of the seventeen non-slave-holding States, they have elected as president and vice-president of the whole confederacy two men whose chief claims to such high positions are their approval of these long continued wrongs, and their pledges to continue them to the final consummation of these schemes for the ruin of the slave-holding States.

In view of these and many other facts, it is meet that our own views should be distinctly proclaimed.

We hold as undeniable truths that the governments of the various States, and of the confederacy itself, were established exclusively by the white race, for themselves and their posterity; that the African race had no agency in their establishment; that they were rightfully held and regarded as an inferior and dependent race, and in that condition only could their existence in this country be rendered beneficial or tolerable.

That in this free government all white men are and of right ought to be entitled to equal civil and political rights; that the servitude of the African race, as existing in these States, is mutually beneficial to both bond and free, and is abundantly authorized and justified by the experience of mankind, and the revealed will of the Almighty Creator, as recognized by all Christian nations; while the destruction of the existing relations between the two races, as advocated by our sectional enemies, would bring inevitable calamities upon both and desolation upon the fifteen slave-holding States.

By the secession of six of the slave-holding States, and the certainty that others will speedily do likewise, Texas has no alternative but to remain in an isolated connection with the North, or unite her destinies with the South.

For these and other reasons, solemnly asserting that the federal constitution has been violated and virtually abrogated by the several States named, seeing that the federal government is now passing under the control of our enemies to be diverted from the exalted objects of its creation to those of oppression and wrong, and realizing that our own State can no longer look for protection, but to God and her own sons--We the delegates of the people of Texas, in Convention assembled, have passed an ordinance dissolving all political connection with the government of the United States of America and the people thereof and confidently appeal to the intelligence and patriotism of the freemen of Texas to ratify the same at the ballot box, on the 23rd day of the present month.

Adopted in Convention on the 2nd day of Feby, in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and sixty-one and of the independence of Texas the twenty-fifth.

You keep hammering on a point that is wrong. This was a declaration of secession, not a declaration of war.

 

[g5000]

I honestly don't know how low an IQ it takes to bleev the Civil War wasn't about slavery.

I guess in the minds of the willfully ignorant, it was just a coincidence all the states which seceded were slave-holding states.

 

[g5000]

You keep hammering on a point that is wrong. This was a declaration of secession, not a declaration of war.

Oh, so our Declaration of Independence wasn't a declaration of war, idiot?

The attack on Fort Sumter wasn't an act of war, idiot?

 

[Chillicothe]

"The states seceded so treason would be impossible. You can't commit treason against a country that you're not part of."

Did the country they were 'seceding' from agree that they were no longer part of the country they were, ummm, 'treason-ing' against.

Seems they didn't. And in those circumstances it takes two.

If that had not been agreed to between the parties......well, it was treason.
No gettin' around it.
Even 160+ years later.

 

[g5000]

I guess the fact that of the six states which published their declarations of secession, it's just a coincidence they mention slavery 82 times.

Um...yeah...

"Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world."