Zone1 have you ever heard Jesus....

[ding]

What do you mean by "tolerating" God's love? Define what people aren't tolerating about God's love.

What's God's love? Making ridiculous demands upon humanity under the threat of eternal torment in a fiery hell? Grow up, or better yet get a conscience. No one rejects God, they reject your horrible version or ideas about God.

I mean that you can be overwhelmed by goodness such that you ask it to be taken away.

 

[Meriweather]

people are burned

Let's try another approach. First, mortal sin requires one to know it separates one from God, and commits the sin freely accepting this separation. Second, the Catholic Church also teaches that it is unknown by the Church who--if anyone--is in hell.

Moving on: "People" are burned? Is this the same as saying human souls are burned? Scripture notes that gold is purified in fire. When gold undergoes purification, not having a body, does it feel pain? Or is it simply a process to remove impurities from the gold, and doesn't cause gold any pain--or any damage--at all? The human soul no longer has a body, it is spirit. Can fire cause pain to that which is spirit? Or, like gold, is it the process by which impurities are removed from an otherwise perfect soul that remains undamaged?

Does the person purifying gold hate the gold? Then why imagine the being(s) purifying souls hating the soul? In fact, they treasure it, just as gold is treasured.

Catholics believe souls can be purified (purged from impurities) after death. Upon death...is God loved as he deserves to be loved? What might be blocking the fullness of love for God? Would it be well to want these blocks removed so that the gift of love is a fullness of all possible love for our Father, our Creator?

 

[Red Front]

I mean that you can be overwhelmed by goodness such that you ask it to be taken away.

I can be "overwhelmed by goodness" that I choose to be "taken away" and tortured in hell for all eternity. What "goodness" would convince me that being tortured in hell for all eternity would be a better option? Do you realize how ridiculous you sound? Maybe you'll clarify and it won't be ridiculous, because at the moment what you're saying sounds like a bunch of incoherent gobbledygook. Kind of like this:

​

 

[ding]

I can be "overwhelmed by goodness" that I choose to be "taken away" and tortured in hell for all eternity. What "goodness" would convince me that being tortured in hell for all eternity would be a better option? Do you realize how ridiculous you sound? Maybe you'll clarify and it won't be ridiculous, because at the moment what you're saying sounds like a bunch of incoherent gobbledygook. Kind of like this:

​

Yes, you can. If you can't tolerate it, you will ask for it to be removed. Hell is being eternally separated from God. It's not a place. It's a state of being. But believe whatever you want. This is what I believe.

 

[Red Front]

Let's try another approach. First, mortal sin requires one to know it separates one from God, and commits the sin freely accepting this separation. Second, the Catholic Church also teaches that it is unknown by the Church who--if anyone--is in hell.

Moving on: "People" are burned? Is this the same as saying human souls are burned? Scripture notes that gold is purified in fire. When gold undergoes purification, not having a body, does it feel pain? Or is it simply a process to remove impurities from the gold, and doesn't cause gold any pain--or any damage--at all? The human soul no longer has a body, it is spirit. Can fire cause pain to that which is spirit? Or, like gold, is it the process by which impurities are removed from an otherwise perfect soul that remains undamaged?

Does the person purifying gold hate the gold? Then why imagine the being(s) purifying souls hating the soul? In fact, they treasure it, just as gold is treasured.

Catholics believe souls can be purified (purged from impurities) after death. Upon death...is God loved as he deserves to be loved? What might be blocking the fullness of love for God? Would it be well to want these blocks removed so that the gift of love is a fullness of all possible love for our Father, our Creator?

Let's try another approach. First, mortal sin requires one to know it separates one from God, and commits the sin freely accepting this separation.

Show me where the catechism states that one can only commit mortal sin if they're aware that their actions constitute a mortal sin that will separate them from God. Where is that in the catechism? People commit mortal sin whether they are aware of the religious concept of "mortal sin" or not. You're claiming otherwise, so provide your evidence from the catechism.

Based upon what I cited earlier from the Catholic catechism, there was no explicit reference to the wicked or those who commit a mortal sin, being only those who were aware their behavior is sin or mortal sin from a religious, Catholic perspective.

Second, the Catholic Church also teaches that it is unknown by the Church who--if anyone--is in hell.

You just ignored everything I cited from the catechism where it explicitly states, without reservation or any doubt who is going to forever burn in hell.

Moving on: "People" are burned? Is this the same as saying human souls are burned? Scripture notes that gold is purified in fire. When gold undergoes purification, not having a body, does it feel pain? Or is it simply a process to remove impurities from the gold, and doesn't cause gold any pain--or any damage--at all?

More dishonesty on your part. Hell isn't a country club or summer camp where people go to reform themselves before going to heaven. Not even purgatory is like that, much less eternal hell. If that was the case I wouldn't be here objecting to hell, I would be "pro-hell/purgatory". The Christian hell is eternal separation from God and torment according to the Christian NT:

Mat_18:8-9 Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.
(9) And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.

Mat_25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

2Th 1:7-9 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, (8) In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: (9) Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Rev 20:10-15 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night forever and ever. (11) And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. (12) And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. (13) And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. (14) And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. (15) And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

...and Catholic Catechism:

"1033 We cannot be united with God unless we freely choose to love him. But we cannot love God if we sin gravely against him, against our neighbor or against ourselves: "He who does not love remains in death. Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him."612 Our Lord warns us that we shall be separated from him if we fail to meet the serious needs of the poor and the little ones who are his brethren.613 To die in mortal sin without repenting and accepting God's merciful love means remaining separated from him for ever by our own free choice. This state of definitive self-exclusion from communion with God and the blessed is called "hell."

1034 Jesus often speaks of "Gehenna" of "the unquenchable fire" reserved for those who to the end of their lives refuse to believe and be converted, where both soul and body can be lost.614 Jesus solemnly proclaims that he "will send his angels, and they will gather . . . all evil doers, and throw them into the furnace of fire,"615 and that he will pronounce the condemnation: "Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire!"616

1035 The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, "eternal fire."617

The above references clearly state that hell is forever and it causes torment, excruciating pain and suffering. It's not a rehabilitative process as purgatory is, so you're conflating purgatory with hell. There's a distinction between both, they're not the same.

The human soul no longer has a body, it is spirit. Can fire cause pain to that which is spirit?

You're not stupid, so your question is disingenuous. You're being dishonest. You know that it doesn't matter if the person has a biological body or not, they're still going to suffer excruciating pain in hell. The fire in hell, isn't made of the same material or energy as fire in our physical universe, but it's nonetheless a type of fire.

Whatever you want to believe about what constitutes the fire in hell or what type of body we have when our biological body dies, the point is that people are going to be tortured in hell forever because they weren't perfect, they didn't believe in the Christian religion or gospel, they didn't convert. That's not purgatory, that's hell, God's cosmic trash bin according to Catholics and Evangelical Christians.

Or, like gold, is it the process by which impurities are removed from an otherwise perfect soul that remains undamaged?

Does the person purifying gold hate the gold? Then why imagine the being(s) purifying souls hating the soul? In fact, they treasure it, just as gold is treasured.

Catholics believe souls can be purified (purged from impurities) after death.

You're describing purgatory, not hell. The Catholic catechism makes a clear distinction between the two. The former is temporary, the latter isn't.

Upon death...is God loved as he deserves to be loved? What might be blocking the fullness of love for God? Would it be well to want these blocks removed so that the gift of love is a fullness of all possible love for our Father, our Creator?

Again, you're conflating purgatory with hell.

As far as love. Upon death, are God's human creatures created in His image deserving of love? Should parents love their children, the people they bring into the world? If these people aren't perfect, should they be abandoned in a cosmic torture chamber for all eternity? Didn't God create us as we are? Did I choose to be born a mortal, in a physical, biological body full of hormones and needs, in a hostile, natural environment?

I live in a universe that is constantly trying to kill me. I have to survive, however I can, and overcome not just the environment outside of me, but the turbulent environment within me, that is pulling me towards anger, revenge, lust, and a host of other negative, destructive states of mind and soul. God knows this and factors it in when judging us. My God is omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent, hence he takes everything into account. He knows me better than I know myself. He knows exactly why I did what I did, why I think the way I do. He is the perfect judge. My God doesn't abandon his human creation in a cosmic trash bin, to be tortured forever.

 

[Red Front]

Yes, you can. If you can't tolerate it, you will ask for it to be removed. Hell is being eternally separated from God. It's not a place. It's a state of being. But believe whatever you want. This is what I believe.

Again, what "goodness" would compel me to jump into hell to be tortured forever? That's just nonsense. I know it's your belief, but it's ridiculous.

 

[Meriweather]

God doesn't abandon his human creation in a cosmic trash bin, to be tortured forever.

Agree, and so does scripture and therefore the Catholic Church.

 

[Red Front]

Agree, and so does scripture and therefore the Catholic Church.

You're ignoring everything that was presented to you from the Bible and Catholic catechism. Hell isn't purgatory. I'm done going back and forth with you. Believe whatever nonsense toots your horn.

 

[Gracie]

Gobbledygook. If your version of "God" tortures people in hell for all eternity because they didn't convert to Protestant Christianity, you're believing in a morally bankrupt deity. Words like "Almighty", "Omniscient" (All Knowing), and "Love", lose their meaning and are reduced to nothing if your version of "God" is real. I don't believe it is, because I believe God is Almighty, Omniscient, and He is truly Love (God Is Love). He reforms His human creation, He doesn't abandon it in a state of eternal torment in hell. Your religion amounts to spiritual terrorism.

YOUR as in general YOU? Because I believe the same thing you do. Perhaps you are quoting the wrong person because I don't believe a loving God would torture those He professed to love. It RELIGIONS that practice "if you don't do this or that, you will go to hell and be tortured forever". Bullshit, says I. But again, thats my opinion...just as most interpretations of passages are opinions.

 

[BreezeWood]

And in my own opinion...mind you, I said OPINION......those who worship the vessel (Mary) are no different than groveling at the golden calf.

no, that is the opinion of the liar moses - and their religion of servitude and denial.

 

[ding]

Again, what "goodness" would compel me to jump into hell to be tortured forever? That's just nonsense. I know it's your belief, but it's ridiculous.

The kind that overwhelmed your capacity to receive it. What is ridiculous are the hardened hearts towards God and your blaming God for their hardened hearts.

 

[Red Front]

The kind that overwhelmed your capacity to receive it. What is ridiculous are the hardened hearts towards God and your blaming God for their hardened hearts.

Are you asserting that the divine goodness that overwhelmed my capacity to receive it led me to jump into hell to get tortured forever? You don't see how ridiculous what you're saying is? You believe that almighty God will supposedly keep me alive in hell being tortured forever because I was overwhelmed by his love for me? That's just nonsensical gobbledygook.

Is a person's heart hardened towards God, or is it just hardened against other people's claims about God and their arbitrary demands? Are their hearts hardened due to being abused and traumatized by those who claim to represent God or by whatever other evil injured them? Do you actually think God is so sensitive and petty that he will torture people for being hardened by the pain and suffering they experience in this harsh world?

According to you, almighty God, who's all-knowing and wise, gets offended when a human being in this harsh world has a hardened heart, hence throwing that person in hell to be tortured for all eternity. Does that actually make sense to you? An infinite, eternal God, with all power and resources available to Him, gets offended and enraged when a little human on Earth is confused, ignorant, hardened, and rather than creating a way for that person to reform himself, he throws him in hell to be tortured forever, without recourse or any possibility of parole. How is that justified in your mind? How do you reconcile that with your conscience?

 

[ding]

Are you asserting that the divine goodness that overwhelmed my capacity to receive it led me to jump into hell to get tortured forever? You don't see how ridiculous what you're saying is? You believe that almighty God will supposedly keep me alive in hell being tortured forever because I was overwhelmed by his love for me? That's just nonsensical gobbledygook.

Is a person's heart hardened towards God, or is it just hardened against other people's claims about God and their arbitrary demands? Are their hearts hardened due to being abused and traumatized by those who claim to represent God or by whatever other evil injured them?

According to you, almighty God, who's all-knowing and wise, gets offended when a human being in this harsh world has a hardened heart, hence throwing that person in hell to be tortured for all eternity. Does that actually make sense to you? An infinite, eternal God, with all power and resources available to Him, gets offended and enraged when a little human on Earth is confused, ignorant, hardened, and rather than creating a way for that person to reform himself, he throws him in hell to be tortured forever, without recourse or any possibility of parole. How is that justified in your mind? How do you reconcile that with your conscience?

I'm asserting nothing more or less than if you are unable to tolerate God's love, you will ask him to remove it and you will be separated from God eternally. If you want to blame God for this, go ahead, but that is not reality. The fault lies with you, not God.

 

[Red Front]

I'm asserting nothing more or less than if you are unable to tolerate God's love, you will ask him to remove it and you will be separated from God eternally. If you want to blame God for this, go ahead, but that is not reality. The fault lies with you, not God.

What is this love that people can't tolerate and supposedly leads them to jump into hell to be tortured forever? What is it about this "love" that leads people to jump into the fires of hell, to be barbecued?

 

[ding]

What is this love that people can't tolerate and supposedly leads them to jump into hell to be tortured forever? What is it about this "love" that leads people to jump into the fires of hell, to be barbecued?

It's not my job to convince you. Don't believe it. I couldn't care less one way or the other.

 

[Red Front]

It's not my job to convince you. Don't believe it. I couldn't care less one way or the other.

You can't explain what is it about this divine "love" that people supposedly can't tolerate and that leads people to jump into hell to be tortured forever? I know you don't care about how nonsensical and immoral your religious beliefs are, but others do care, and that's why I take the time and make the effort to respond to your claptrap. I do it for the people that do care about the truth, not for you. I know you're a hopeless case. You're gone.

 

[ding]

You can't explain what is it about this divine "love" that people supposedly can't tolerate and that leads people to jump into hell to be tortured forever? I know you don't care about how nonsensical and immoral your religious beliefs are, but others do care, and that's why I take the time and make the effort to respond to your claptrap. I do it for the people that do care about the truth, not for you. I know you're a hopeless case. You're gone.

I've already explained what I believe. I'm not going to argue about it with you. Believe whatever you want.

 

[0311]

say literally anything the rcc believes? no.mary worship, graven image worship, purgatory, indulgences, the 7 sacraments etc.? no.

I've never have auditory hallucinations.

 

[Red Front]

I've already explained what I believe. I'm not going to argue about it with you. Believe whatever you want.

You didn't explain what is it about God's love that drives people to choose hell rather than heaven. What is it about God's love that it would convince a person to choose being tortured in hell for all eternity? What is it? You haven't explained that. Enlighten us.

 

[ding]

You didn't explain what is it about God's love that drives people to choose hell rather than heaven. What is it about God's love that it would convince a person to choose being tortured in hell for all eternity? What is it? You haven't explained that. Enlighten us.

Sure I did. I think you just want to argue.