Zone1 Intelligent people have doubts RE Jesus

[LeroyDumonde]

Compared to any other event in antiquity the account of Christ is unparalleled in the number of texts, the timing of the texts and the accuracy of the copies. I mean it's not really even close.

And not a single one of those texts were written by anyone who met Jesus. The oldest books in the New Testament were written by Paul who admits that he never met Jesus. They were written about 2 decades after Jesus allegedly died. The earliest gospel is that of Mark and it was written 20 years after Paul's earliest epistle. After that we get the gospels of Matthew and Luke which plagiarized Mark and were about a decade later. The gospel of John wasn't written until about 90 AD, 60 years after Jesus allegedly died. There's not a scrap of evidence from Jesus' time that mentions him.

 

[ding]

And not a single one of those texts were written by anyone who met Jesus. The oldest books in the New Testament were written by Paul who admits that he never met Jesus. They were written about 2 decades after Jesus allegedly died. The earliest gospel is that of Mark and it was written 20 years after Paul's earliest epistle. After that we get the gospels of Matthew and Luke which plagiarized Mark and were about a decade later. The gospel of John wasn't written until about 90 AD, 60 years after Jesus allegedly died. There's not a scrap of evidence from Jesus' time that mentions him.

 

[surada]

so you don't read books on Abraham Lincoln by people who didn't live when he did?

There's ample evidence for Lincoln. Your comparison is lame.

 

[surada]

There are stones, coins, and other inscriptions dated to his reign which bear his name.

Which were written in the 4th century and are almost all Gnostic texts. Many of these texts were copies of older documents of course, but being in the Nag Hammdi Library doesn't make them early 1st century documents.

The Nag Hammadi Codices is a collection of early Christian Gnostic texts, mostly translated from Greek into Coptic, originally written between the 2nd and 4th centuries AD. The Coptic Codices themselves are dated to the 4th and 5th centuries AD.

 

[surada]

I literally said in my post that most were copies of earlier texts.

Who said that happened?

I read it years ago.

And why do you believe that it was written by one of the biblical James?

Not copied.. written in the 4th century.

The Nag Hammadi Codices is a collection of early Christian Gnostic texts, mostly translated from Greek into Coptic, originally written between the 2nd and 4th centuries AD. The Coptic Codices themselves are dated to the 4th and 5th centuries AD.

 

[ding]

There's ample evidence for Lincoln. Your comparison is lame.

There's ample evidence for the 3 1/2 year ministry of Christ. How do you explain the 24,000+ written manuscripts? Conspiracy theory?

 

[surada]

There's ample evidence for the 3 1/2 year ministry of Christ. How do you explain the 24,000+ written manuscripts? Conspiracy theory?

I never said anything about manuscripts. Nor did I say Jesus didn't exist. Try to pay attention.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Let's keep hammering on what you keep running from.

If having martyrs proves a religion is the OneTrueReligion, as you claim, then you've proven that Islam is the OneTrueReligion. After all, Islam has more martyrs than any other religion.

So why are you pushing Jesus, when your own definition says Mohammed is the OneTrueProphet?

As usual you focus on the irrelevant and make up the most ABSURD claims about what I said. I think you’re a poorly trained agitprop school dropout

I pointed to the martyrdom of the Apostles as irrefutable evidence that walked with Jesus and would rather face a horrible death than deny him. Rabbi Akiva made the same choice rather than renounce his beloved Torah.

 

[mamooth]

As usual you focus on the irrelevant and make up the most ABSURD claims about what I said.

Your point, the one you keep coming back to over and over, is that someone's willingness to be a martyr proves the religion is valid.

See? Like this.

I pointed to the martyrdom of the Apostles as irrefutable evidence that walked with Jesus and would rather face a horrible death than deny him. Rabbi Akita made the same choice rather than renounce his beloved Torah.

Then I point out that you don't hold the same standard regarding Islam, showing that you don't even believe your own point. And thus I refute you.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Your point, the one you keep coming back to over and over, is that someone's willingness to be a martyr proves the religion is valid.

See? Like this.



Then I point out that you don't hold the same standard regarding Islam, showing that you don't even believe your own point. And thus I refute you.

And you proved my first point, that you flunked out of Agitprop school. All I've said is that the martyrdom of the Apostles proves they walked with Jesus, I never said it means you should get communion.

Were you called the John McCain of your class?

 

[ding]

I never said anything about manuscripts. Nor did I say Jesus didn't exist. Try to pay attention.

I didn't say that you said anything about manuscripts. You implied there wasn't ample evidence for the existence of Jesus. So I was paying attention. Maybe you should take your own advice.

 

[LeroyDumonde]

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So what? I haven't made any claims about the historical accuracy of any of those other works.

 

[ding]

So what? I haven't made any claims about the historical accuracy of any of those other works.

Didn't say you did. That was me backing up my claim.

 

[LeroyDumonde]

Didn't say you did. That was me backing up my claim.

Which claim?

 

[LeroyDumonde]

Not copied.. written in the 4th century.

The Nag Hammadi Codices is a collection of early Christian Gnostic texts, mostly translated from Greek into Coptic, originally written between the 2nd and 4th centuries AD. The Coptic Codices themselves are dated to the 4th and 5th centuries AD.

So if some were originally written in the 2nd century and then were rewritten in the 4th or 5th century, that makes the rewritten versions copies.

 

[kjw47]

I've heard that people who are exceptionally intelligent sometimes have multiple doubts, or I should say Questions, about Jesus, about the history of Christianity and etc.

Well, even not too bright people have doubts. But as someone once said, "a thousand questions do not make one doubt."

Whatever you call it, people have valid questions. For one, some people doubt Jesus even existed. Well, I find that one absurd because even non-Christian historians who lived in the first centuries spoke of Jesus.

In any case, I have had many questions and sometimes whne things are not going well, I have doubts about.. things like God really loving anyone... I don't feel the love 24/7/365 all the days of my life, to be sure.

But then when I have these doubtful moments, I remember the Real Presence of Christ.

And all doubts vanish immediately. If you don't know what the Real Presence is, you really should check it out... But Jesus has a tangible Presence and that Presence abides in His Church.

+

The presence mentioned in the bible began here-Rev 6:2, when he received his crown. Jesus is with 1 single religion( 1 Cor 1:10) there are hundreds of different religions claiming to be Christian, 1 is. The one that is hated. Jesus said his followers would be hated because the world hated him first.

 

[ding]

Which claim?

That compared to any other event in antiquity the account of Christ is unparalleled in the number of texts, the timing of the texts and the accuracy of the copies and that it's not really even close.

 

[surada]

That compared to any other event in antiquity the account of Christ is unparalleled in the number of texts, the timing of the texts and the accuracy of the copies and that it's not really even close.

There were 100 gospels.

 

[ding]

There were 100 gospels.

And did any of them say, "hey, wait, Jesus didn't perform any of those miracles except resurrection."

 

[RetiredGySgt]

True. Most scholars think the reference to Jesus was added later.

defending attacks on Jesus now? Remind us how you are a Christian again?