Healthcare should not be a PROFIT driven field

[The Rabbi]

Right. Let's have a bunch of folks who are clueless put together a plan to reverse a disaster. What a great idea!
Would you have an interior designer try to fix your car? No, you have an auto mechanic fix your car because they know what they are doing and know the workings of the car.
Why have a bunch of stooges, when one can have people that know the workings of our healthcare system and have a clue how to fix it?
How many people would be comfortable with your idea and how many with my idea?

No, you don't get it. I'm not advocating Congress fix it. I'm pointing out Congress will have to pass the legislation. And there is no way they are giving up power on this. Too much at stake.
Your idea is unicorn farts and fairy dust.

No problem. Next time you need help understanding something just PM me.

 

[MaryL]

My mother died of a disease her health care providers should have diagnosed months if not years earlier. Cancer, Kiaser. Actually, on her deathbed, the Kaiser Doctors suddenly became sober and competent and reliable and "informs" her family 4 hours before she died she was terminal. No Da. That was in 2001, not long after 9/11. Flash forward, Obama and his promises, I lost My Dr. of ten years. He was outa the "net'. I don't care anymore. Excuses. Excuses. Lies or incompetence. "Happy mothers day".

 

[Political Junky]

good one doofus; except that countries with socialized health care have WORSE OUTCOMES fo things like cancer; so it is in these countries that they want them to "hurry up and die"

libs are losers who lie to themselves

oh and nice job using an unhinged far-left loser who threatened to kill his wife as a symbol of your values!!

And that's good enough for you? Would it be good enough if the US military was only superior in one thing? We suck for health care delivery in this country. It is a lie to say we don't.

We have the best medical care in the world. That's a fact.

If you're rich.

 

[Political Junky]

For the past decade, social scientists and pollsters have given elaborate questionnaires to hundreds of thousands of people around the globe. Two of the largest studies that rank the happiness of countries around the world are the World Map of Happiness from the University of Leiscester and the World Database of Happiness from Ruut Veenhoven of Erasmus University Rotterdam. All the happiness surveys ask people basically the same question: How happy are you?

"The answer you get is not only how they feel right now, but also how they feel about their entire life," explained Dan Buettner, who has studied happiness and longevity around the world through his Blue Zones project Buettner said that if you mine all the databases of universities and research centers, you'll find that the happiest place on earth is ? Denmark. Cold, dreary, unspectacular Denmark.

Could the Danes really be the happiest people in the world? When ABC News anchor Bill Weir traveled there to find out, he asked random Danes to rate themselves in terms of happiness, on a scale of one to 10. Many people rated themselves at least an eight, and there were several nines and 10s. Finally, one grouchy Dane came along who said she didn't believe Danes were so happy. But then she quickly conceded that she herself felt rather content with her life, and said Danes in general had very little to complain about.
Danes do have one potential complaint: high taxes. The happiest people in the world pay some of the highest taxes in the world -- between 50 percent and 70 percent of their incomes. In exchange, the government covers all health care and education, and spends more on children and the elderly than any country in the world per capita. With just 5.5 million people, the system is efficient, and people feel "tryghed" -- the Danish word for "tucked in" -- like a snug child.
Those high taxes have another effect. Since a banker can end up taking home as much money as an artist, people don't chose careers based on income or status. "They have this thing called 'Jante-lov,' which essentially says, 'You're no better then anybody else,'" said Buettner. "A garbage man can live in a middle-class neighborhood and hold his head high."

Denmark: The Happiest Place on Earth - ABC News

Denmark is a small country with an essentially homogeneous population.
And those high wages are eaten up by taxes.
"The government covers"....Gotta love this....Umm the Danish govt is funded by those high taxes.
And the system is not as simple as other are led to believe. As with any socialized country, medical care is heavily regulated and bureaucratically dispensed.
As far as happiness is concerned, happy is up the individual.

Wow, government sustained by taxes? What a concept.
The Right constantly points out the smaller population as compared to the US. it makes not a dot of difference.

 

[Iceweasel]

Wow, government sustained by taxes? What a concept.
The Right constantly points out the smaller population as compared to the US. it makes not a dot of difference.

A 60% tax rate on $55,000 and over isn't my idea of paradise.

 

[P@triot]

For the past decade, social scientists and pollsters have given elaborate questionnaires to hundreds of thousands of people around the globe. Two of the largest studies that rank the happiness of countries around the world are the World Map of Happiness from the University of Leiscester and the World Database of Happiness from Ruut Veenhoven of Erasmus University Rotterdam. All the happiness surveys ask people basically the same question: How happy are you?

"The answer you get is not only how they feel right now, but also how they feel about their entire life," explained Dan Buettner, who has studied happiness and longevity around the world through his Blue Zones project Buettner said that if you mine all the databases of universities and research centers, you'll find that the happiest place on earth is ? Denmark. Cold, dreary, unspectacular Denmark.

Could the Danes really be the happiest people in the world? When ABC News anchor Bill Weir traveled there to find out, he asked random Danes to rate themselves in terms of happiness, on a scale of one to 10. Many people rated themselves at least an eight, and there were several nines and 10s. Finally, one grouchy Dane came along who said she didn't believe Danes were so happy. But then she quickly conceded that she herself felt rather content with her life, and said Danes in general had very little to complain about.
Danes do have one potential complaint: high taxes. The happiest people in the world pay some of the highest taxes in the world -- between 50 percent and 70 percent of their incomes. In exchange, the government covers all health care and education, and spends more on children and the elderly than any country in the world per capita. With just 5.5 million people, the system is efficient, and people feel "tryghed" -- the Danish word for "tucked in" -- like a snug child.
Those high taxes have another effect. Since a banker can end up taking home as much money as an artist, people don't chose careers based on income or status. "They have this thing called 'Jante-lov,' which essentially says, 'You're no better then anybody else,'" said Buettner. "A garbage man can live in a middle-class neighborhood and hold his head high."

Denmark: The Happiest Place on Earth - ABC News

Denmark is a small country with an essentially homogeneous population.
And those high wages are eaten up by taxes.
"The government covers"....Gotta love this....Umm the Danish govt is funded by those high taxes.
And the system is not as simple as other are led to believe. As with any socialized country, medical care is heavily regulated and bureaucratically dispensed.
As far as happiness is concerned, happy is up the individual.

Wow, government sustained by taxes? What a concept.
The Right constantly points out the smaller population as compared to the US. it makes not a dot of difference.

Except that taxes are to run the government - not to redistribute wealth and provide for the people.

Please cite for me the section of the Constitution which authorizes the federal government to meddle in healthcare?

(Hint: you can't - so don't waste our time posting something absurd)

The funny thing is, liberals could legally implement their communist utopia at the state level.

 

[P@triot]

And that's good enough for you? Would it be good enough if the US military was only superior in one thing? We suck for health care delivery in this country. It is a lie to say we don't.

We have the best medical care in the world. That's a fact.

If you're rich.

I'm not "rich" and I have routinely experienced the BEST healthcare in the WORLD. How do you explain that?

 

[P@triot]

While we're at it...

Everyone needs food. Farmers and grocery stores should be non-profits. To do otherwise is just plain greedy.
Everyone needs clothing. Clothing designers and stores should be non-profits. To do otherwise is just plain greedy.
Everyone needs housing. Building supply stores and contractors should be non-profits. To do otherwise is just plain greedy.

Right? I mean if we're going down this road, let's go down it.

Heard this one on here before.

There's a big difference between food, clothes and housing and healthcare.

But i guess trying to make everything really nice and simple allows you to treat everything the same.

When people get cancer, it can be life and death. People who work a normal job can afford food, they can afford housing and clothes, they're a part of every day life. Cancer isn't a part of every day life for most people, but when it happens, it happens hard.

Do you see the difference?

Um, you do realize that people also face life and death without food, don't you?

Also, people who work a "normal job" can also afford healthcare. Minimum wage workers at McDonald's have exceptional health insurance.

 

[P@triot]

Not eating and sleeping outside in freezing temperatures also cause death. Therefore, using your logic, food and shelter should be free to all and no one should ever make a profit on them.

once again your liberal "logic" fails.

Yeah, if you want to play silly beggars, then of course my logic will always be faulty, as you can't really use logic when people are willing to use anything to make a point regardless.

Yes, if people sleep outside, then they might die.

However, if you actually think about it. First, people need housing, or a room, all the time. They need food, all the time, they need clothes all the time. They are essential elements of life that are used daily.
So, by being used daily there is, in richer countries at least, a tendency of people to put aside for this sort of thing, because if they don't, it's going to cause major problems, on a daily basis.
I can basically figure out how much I need for food a day, because generally I eat about the same amount of food a day. I can figure out how much I'm going to need of housing, and I will probably work it out based on how much I earn. The same with clothes, though I don't need to buy them daily, I might buy new clothes every few months or so.

But healthcare is different. It happens suddenly. It happens arbitrarily. One person gets smacked with cancer while another person doesn't.

You know all of this. You can see the difference, why is it so hard?

What difference does it make that health issues can happen "suddenly" and "arbitrarily" while food is a consistent need?

In each case, as long as you plan, you will never have a problem. I've never had cancer (thank God), but I carry health insurance just in case I do.

 

[Political Junky]

Wow, government sustained by taxes? What a concept.
The Right constantly points out the smaller population as compared to the US. it makes not a dot of difference.

A 60% tax rate on $55,000 and over isn't my idea of paradise.

It's great if you don't have to worry about dying for lack of healthcare. One is guaranteed a decent retirement, paid vacations, maternity leave and more.

 

[MaryL]

I have seen to what incompetence highly paid insured health care providers can sink to. I shudder to think what this new fangled entitlement Obamcare twits are capable of. Scary stuff. I would rather be cast off on a Ice floe, or put out in a bloody cave to die of god knows what.

 

[P@triot]

Not me. People bought insurance for those catastrophic cases. That's what insurance is for, a pooling of resources for the few big ticket items. Somehow the responsible folks managed to do this before Obama came along. You can't survive without food, period. Food is much more important, without it, you have no health to insure to care for.

Your health will go downhill fast without a place to live, being exposed to the elements and God knows what. Again, you might survive without health insurance but your days are numbered without shelter.

So if it makes sense to you to not provide food and housing for non working folks, what sense does it make to provide health care?

Yep, insurance is a pooling of resources. So is paying taxes and the govt paying the money.

What's the difference?

The difference is that if I pay insurance, I have to pay the insurance company to insure me. I have to pay someone to merely hand the money out when required. But not only do I pay for this service, I also have to pay for their profits, and they can be big profits.

I have to pay for them to lobby congress, i have to pay for them to make sure that healthcare doesn't become nationalised, because they spend a lot of money on that too.

When push comes to shove, I might not get what I even paid for because they're going to put as much effort (from the money I PAID) into making sure they don't actually have to pay me.

But again, I've made the points in the previous post about the difference between food, housing and clothing compared to healthcare which you are welcome to respond to.

And with the government, I have to pay for them to waste trillions of dollars. I have to pay for fraud. I have to pay for abuse.

When push comes to shove, I'm guaranteed to not get what I paid for. Nothing makes the Dumbocrats smile like a person dying in their 50's as it means they paid into Social Security for a lifetime but won't be able to draw one damn dime of it and neither will their family (in many cases). The federal government will put in the maximum effort (from the money I paid) into making sure they don't actually have to pay me.

 

[Listening]

Wow, government sustained by taxes? What a concept.
The Right constantly points out the smaller population as compared to the US. it makes not a dot of difference.

A 60% tax rate on $55,000 and over isn't my idea of paradise.

It's great if you don't have to worry about dying for lack of healthcare. One is guaranteed a decent retirement, paid vacations, maternity leave and more.

Then by all means move there and enjoy it.

 

[Iceweasel]

Wow, government sustained by taxes? What a concept.
The Right constantly points out the smaller population as compared to the US. it makes not a dot of difference.

A 60% tax rate on $55,000 and over isn't my idea of paradise.

It's great if you don't have to worry about dying for lack of healthcare. One is guaranteed a decent retirement, paid vacations, maternity leave and more.

I guess being a subject of the state has its' privileges but we've managed those things pretty well in the past with a good standard of living without being socialist.

 

[P@triot]

Republicans will tell you that profit ensures excellence.

It makes sense. If you don't reward excellence, you will get incompetence.

This is true. But it ignores what Republicans have been taught to ignore, namely that profit incentivizes corruption as much as it does excellence. This is why drug companies pay doctors to push high profit drugs or unneeded servives.

When making money is the only value, people do whatever is necessary to make more money, including using the centralizing power of government to imprison consumers in an anti-competitive market of limited options.

Not nearly as much as power incentives corruption though. So please, [MENTION=24221]Londoner[/MENTION], tell us again how altruistic and pure the federal government is....

The Environmental Protection Agency has been conducting dangerous experiments on humans over the past few years in order to justify more onerous clean air regulations.

The agency conducted tests on people with health issues and the elderly, exposing them to high levels of potentially lethal pollutants, without disclosing the risks of cancer and death, according to a newly released government report.

EPA Subjects Humans to Deadly Experiments

 

[P@triot]

It's great if you don't have to worry about dying for lack of healthcare. One is guaranteed a decent retirement, paid vacations, maternity leave and more.

I guess being a subject of the state has its' privileges but we've managed those things pretty well in the past with a good standard of living without being socialist.

For a minority of the people yes. The vast majority struggle every day. People say Socialism like its a bad thing,Fact is Socialism has been around in America for a very long time.

Yeah - and it just "happens" to coincide with the failure, rise in poverty, and misery which has also been around in America for a very long time (right when the rise of the cancer known as liberalism occurred).

 

[P@triot]

Why the FUCK is government involved at all? Guess they love to abridge Liberty of the individual....

Why is govt involved in anything at all? Why have govt in the first place? The answer to that one, you're going to have to figure out for yourself.

My personal point of view is how far should the govt go. With healthcare, I see the role of the govt as the one who takes the taxes, puts it into healthcare so that there is a healthcare system that doesn't require payment for essential healthcare.

But then again, I don't really listen to the millions of dollars being spent by the healthcare system which tells me it should be private.

But get this. The US govt spends about the same amount of its GDP on healthcare as the UK govt. One has the NHS the other has medicare. Spot the difference?

You don't get to "see it" any way chief. We have this thing called a "constitution" and it is the law (the highest law in the land in fact). It outlines the rolls and responsibilities of the federal government.

You don't get to dictate to the masses how things should be because that's how you "see it".

Oh, and get this. The UK is currently working on decentralizing their healthcare system because they can't afford it

 

[P@triot]

Republicans LOVE socialism when its boosting their military industrial complex to invade more countries...that fills the pockets of the CEO's and criminals. But when its used to HELP citizens of this country its a bad thing...

Defense is actually the constitutional responsibility of the federal government. Damn...imagine that

 

[P@triot]

For a minority of the people yes. The vast majority struggle every day. People say Socialism like its a bad thing,Fact is Socialism has been around in America for a very long time.

Yeah - and it just "happens" to coincide with the failure, rise in poverty, and misery which has also been around in America for a very long time (right when the rise of the cancer known as liberalism occurred).

You are right! We should repeal all safety laws,regulations,child labor laws,minimum wage laws etc,then EVERYONE will live it high on the hog!

Here is what I know - we had real, actual freedom when Republican Abraham Lincoln sat in the White House and we didn't have $17 trillion in national debt. We also didn't have nearly as many people in poverty.

But hey, you go ahead and party all night over the $60 million per year the federal government unconstitutionally spends on promoting seat belts...

 

[Listening]

For a minority of the people yes. The vast majority struggle every day. People say Socialism like its a bad thing,Fact is Socialism has been around in America for a very long time.

Yeah - and it just "happens" to coincide with the failure, rise in poverty, and misery which has also been around in America for a very long time (right when the rise of the cancer known as liberalism occurred).

You are right! We should repeal all safety laws,regulations,child labor laws,minimum wage laws etc,then EVERYONE will live it high on the hog!

O.K.

Somehow I thought you might be different.

There is a retard forum and it looks like you'll fit right in.