Here We Go: Teacher Shortages 22-23

[WorldWatcher]

Okay thanks for the clarification. I didn't understand that either. So you're talking trimesters. Our district did that for a time and it was frankly not workable. Quickly reverted back to semesters.

The fundamental difference though, I'm assuming, from your local experiment was keep basically 10-month teachers and not to move teachers to a true 12-month, 250 day work schedule.

With a 12 month work schedule there would be a significant pay raise, they would be viewed as the professionals they are (instead of by some as just part-time employees), they would accrue vacation time and be responsible for scheduling it like any 12-month employee.

To my knowledge that has not been tried for a wide ranging, long term evaluation.

The "Secondary" trimester would be targeted (for teachers) for remedial work with students that need it, professional development, curriculum work, and scheduling vacations. Not all teachers would do the same thing each semester.

WW

 

[JoeB131]

If not, then most liberal arts education can be tossed as being impractical as well.

Hey, frankly, I wish I had taken Engineering or Computer Science as a major back in college instead of history... but water under the bridge.

 

[Lisa558]

No but I went to college with many business majors. They weren't the cream of the crop.

No, the engineering and science majors were cream of the crop. The business majors were OK. I won’t say any more than that.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Disgusting

Yes, I 100% agree that you are a disgusting individual.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Get help

Was I talking to you? No.

It appears it does apply to you also.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

You still won’t say what subject you teach.

And WW’s proposal, now clarified, would be very helpful to students as far as their education, but of course it would require teachers to work year-round, like other professionals do. I can see why you’d balk at losing your summer vacation, but the starting salaries WOULD go up and bring more equity to the field.

No need for the personal insults. I am a highly educated woman who achieved great academic success (top in my class), along with career success, and it is unnecessary to call people ignorant simply because they disagree with you. I COULD say something insulting about education majors, but I won’t sink to your level.

The problem with WWs plan is that teachers cannot work 16 hours a day year-round. No one in their right mind does that, except perhaps the military. You want to see a teacher shortage? Implement that plan. No amount of money is worth your mental health. My administrators and I always would recommend taking a mental health day every so often to combat the stress that occurs every day in teaching, even on a regular schedule.

 

[Lisa558]

The problem with WWs plan is that teachers cannot work 16 hours a day year-round. No one in their right mind does that, except perhaps the military. You want to see a teacher shortage? Implement that plan. No amount of money is worth your mental health. My administrators and I always would recommend taking a mental health day every so often to combat the stress that occurs every day in teaching, even on a regular schedule.

So is that the new line? We can’t work full-time like professionals do because we work from 8 am to midnight every day. Yeah, right…..

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

The fundamental difference though, I'm assuming, from your local experiment was keep basically 10-month teachers and not to move teachers to a true 12-month, 250 day work schedule.

With a 12 month work schedule there would be a significant pay raise, they would be viewed as the professionals they are (instead of by some as just part-time employees), they would accrue vacation time and be responsible for scheduling it like any 12-month employee.

To my knowledge that has not been tried for a wide ranging, long term evaluation.

The "Secondary" trimester would be targeted (for teachers) for remedial work with students that need it, professional development, curriculum work, and scheduling vacations. Not all teachers would do the same thing each semester.

WW

In my first school district, schools were overcrowded and classroom sizes were exploding to nearly 40 students per teacher.

The solution? A full year-round school year for teachers and a calendar based on a quarter system. Teachers would teach all 4 quarters and students would attend three quarters of their designated schedule. There were one week breaks in the quarters to align with one occurring at Christmas.

The system was a total nightmare. I had two children in the same elementary school. My son attended class in the summer while my daughter was off. He was off in the spring of the year, and she was in class. I was in the Navy at the time and there was zero time for us to take a vacation where all of our schedules aligned. Most parents just ignored the schedule and took their kids out of school for weeks on end during their scheduled time to attend.

Teachers were never given time off other than the one week breaks, which usually they worked, preparing for the next quarter. The local universities were frustrated because teachers could never attend day classes in the summer for their advanced education.

If I recall, the system lasted two years until the school board was convinced that the plan sucked donkey balls! The teachers, PTAs, universities, and the Navy all lobbied to have the plan revert to the traditional schedule. Their solution was to end the schedule, bite the bullet, hire more teachers, and build new schools. That district eventually grew to 700,000 students and was where I took my first teaching position about 5 years later, where I stayed for 10 years.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

So is that the new line? We can’t work full-time like professionals do because we work from 8 am to midnight every day. Yeah, right…..

New line? Lisa, have you ever worked 16 hour days during the week and then additional hours on the weekend? Name another job that does that 224 days a year.

 

[Lisa558]

New line? Lisa, have you ever worked 16 hour days during the week and then additional hours on the weekend? Name another job that does that 224 days a year.

Of course I have. I had a job in corporate America. It was round the clock work, and it was expected. I remember one Friday afternoon my boss said to me, “you have had an especially demanding week. Go ahead and take Sunday off between noon and 6.” Of course, it was expected I’d put in some hours Sunday morning, and then again Sunday night, but I remember walking around the mall Sunday afternoon and feeling so free.

AND we didn’t have three weeks off during the year and then ANOTHER 10 weeks off every summer.

You think teachers have it so much worse than people working for corporations, and you’re wrong.

 

[flan327]

Admiral Rockwell Tory.

Thanks

 

[Woodznutz]

You think teachers have it so much worse than people working for corporations, and you’re wrong.

And it often takes most of your money to 'look the part' of a corporate executive.

 

[flan327]

New line? Lisa, have you ever worked 16 hour days during the week and then additional hours on the weekend? Name another job that does that 224 days a year.

I have

What’s your point?

 

[flan327]

And it often takes most of your money to 'look the part' of a corporate executive.

I dress for myself

Never had any problems

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Of course I have. I had a job in corporate America. It was round the clock work, and it was expected. I remember one Friday afternoon my boss said to me, “you have had an especially demanding week. Go ahead and take Sunday off between noon and 6.” Of course, it was expected I’d put in some hours Sunday morning, and then again Sunday night, but I remember walking around the mall Sunday afternoon and feeling so free.

AND we didn’t have three weeks off during the year and then ANOTHER 10 weeks off every summer.

You think teachers have it so much worse than people working for corporations, and you’re wrong.

Lisa, lying is not very becoming.

We were discussing WW's plan for working year round. Try to stay with the topic.

I worked for AT&T. I was amazed at how much time off I had after leaving the military.

 

[flan327]

Hey, frankly, I wish I had taken Engineering or Computer Science as a major back in college instead of history... but water under the bridge.

LOL

I was an English major
Minored in French and Anthropology

Did I ever use anything but English?

Not really

But I wouldn’t change a thing

 

[flan327]

Lisa, lying is not very becoming.

We were discussing WW's plan for working year round. Try to stay with the topic.

You first big guy

 

[JoeB131]

LOL

I was an English major
Minored in French and Anthropology

Did I ever use anything but English?

Not really

But I wouldn’t change a thing

A mixed bag.

When I took History as a major in College, I was expecting to perhaps have a military career and maybe become an officer. While I did end up serving an additional six years and became an NCO, it wasn't quite to plan.

Getting out of the Service, at least initially, the degree didn't serve me well, but that was because the economy was in such shit shape thanks to Poppy Bush. But I would say having a degree gave me a leg up in my job searches.

I also think I got FAR more out of my time in the military than I got out of college, even though the reason for joining the military was to pay for college.

 

[WorldWatcher]

In my first school district, schools were overcrowded and classroom sizes were exploding to nearly 40 students per teacher.

The solution? A full year-round school year for teachers and a calendar based on a quarter system. Teachers would teach all 4 quarters and students would attend three quarters of their designated schedule. There were one week breaks in the quarters to align with one occurring at Christmas.

Nice but not what I'm talking about. Your anecdote is based on over crowding.

My hypothetical (and yes I know it's a hypothetical) isn't trying to keep the current education model just spread it out over 3 (or in your anecdote 4) semesters or quarters), it's about fundamentally reshaping how to view the educational model in a non-agrarian society and to elevate teachers into a true professional class. That means:

• Increasing the number of teachers to accommodate the balance so they CAN teach, attend professional development, and still be able to schedule vacations.
• Increase the compensation of teachers to be commensurate with a 12 month employment period.
• Provide an environment where individual student needs are tracked and timely remedial assistance is provided instead of "failing" them or holding them back, but not just a pass through process. A data driven process providing positive feedback.

(But that's OK, I realize even the beginnings of such a thought process is outside the norm. I'm fine with that).

WW

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Nice but not what I'm talking about. Your anecdote is based on over crowding.

My hypothetical (and yes I know it's a hypothetical) isn't trying to keep the current education model just spread it out over 3 (or in your anecdote 4) semesters or quarters), it's about fundamentally reshaping how to view the educational model in a non-agrarian society and to elevate teachers into a true professional class. That means:

• Increasing the number of teachers to accommodate the balance so they CAN teach, attend professional development, and still be able to schedule vacations.
• Increase the compensation of teachers to be commensurate with a 12 month employment period.
• Provide an environment where individual student needs are tracked and timely remedial assistance is provided instead of "failing" them or holding them back, but not just a pass through process. A data driven process providing positive feedback.

(But that's OK, I realize even the beginnings of such a thought process is outside the norm. I'm fine with that).

WW

How will increasing the number of teachers help if they will not fit in the school built in the 1920s? (Yes, I taught in one!)

We have this thing called substitutes of which there are never enough and you might get someone with an English literature degree to teach your AP calculus class! My experience shows not much educating goes on if the teacher is not there.

I talked about the increased compensation. My major difficulty with your plan is that it was tried 30 years ago, and I hate being the bearer of bad news, but it failed miserably and was abandoned. Your idea is NOT new.

Did you know that tracking students without the parent's permission is illegal? I didn't think so.

If I hear the words "data driven" in regards to one more time, I think I will commit a homicide! What do you think is the major cause of increased teacher workload, other than the hours and hours spent collecting and analyzing that data? Most of the time it is very easy to look at little Johnny's grades and determine that he's a dumbass in need of an ass-beating for wasting his and your time! Fail him, and the school board directs that he be socially promoted along with all other failures.