Hilarious! Republicans are saying Democrats won't work with them hoping to spread the blame

[iceberg]

Sure, the premiums increased just as they did prior to the ACA. But of course, those purchasing that coverage aren't likely paying the full cost, and some of the premiums are defrayed by the subsidies in the bill. But again, it seems to me that you're dancing around the elephant in the room; which is that you can't have for-profit insurance companies and universal coverage. So you have a choice to make.

ok you antagonistic assnugget - this is what i said. you can't have a for profit insurance company helping make things more affordable. we have an INSURANCE FUCKING PROBLEM not healthcare.

to fix that is to completely redo both industries as to how they are now and that's a lot of money you're bucking up against so it's not realistic now is it?

so we fucking agree in the end but you chose to make it a fight vs. a discussion.

very "liberal" of you.

 

[easyt65]

Again, that's entirely backwards. You're saying that in order to go to a doctor, you first have to get insurance unless you are going to pay the full cost out of pocket.

No I am not saying that - you are. I am talking about purchasing health care insurance, being able to make my own decisions rather than having Barak Obama or the federal govt dictating to me the minimum level of insurance THEY believe I should have.

I am talking about free market where there is more than 1 choice to choose from, instead of the one choice in some cases - or none now - thanks to the ACA, which has partly caused the huge spike in premium cost.

 

[Borillar]

You stupid Moon Bats have it wrong. The fundlemental problem is that the stupid Democrats are preventing needed changes to that disastrous Obamcare by not supporting the improvements and then blaming the Republicans because they won't fix what the Democrats broke.

That is partisan politics by the party of Moon Bats. That is why they lost 1,000 nation wide seats and Congress and the Presidency.

Republican "improvements" are covering 24 million less people while costing consumers more so they can give the 1% yet another tax cut.

 

[Flash]

You stupid Moon Bats have it wrong. The fundlemental problem is that the stupid Democrats are preventing needed changes to that disastrous Obamcare by not supporting the improvements and then blaming the Republicans because they won't fix what the Democrats broke.

That is partisan politics by the party of Moon Bats. That is why they lost 1,000 nation wide seats and Congress and the Presidency.

Republican "improvements" are covering 24 million less people while costing consumers more so they can give the 1% yet another tax cut.

You are confused Moon Bat. Obamacare has 24 million without insurance and significantly ran up the cost of premiums, co payments and deductibles in addition to adding $2 trillion in debt and increased taxes. So with insurance companies bailing out right and left how is that Obamacare working out for you?

Complete failure. By the way Moon Bat, since you are confused being without insurance in the US does not mean you are without health care.

 

[The Derp]

what have you done to validate your "facts" other than to say they come from you and this is all you use?

I've linked to dozens of things. All I do is link to things. The facts show that about 24,000,000 people gained coverage thanks to Obamacare, and premium increases have been at or below what they were pre-ACA.

as for "get away with heresay" - i provided an article that said 130% increase in rates in 10 years. does that or does that not validate what my friend said in his insurance doubled? others must be seeing it also as i doubt time would report on 1 user.

So Obamacare has only been around for 7 years, with the marketplaces around for 3. So what was the premium increase from 2007 - 2013 and what was the premium increase for 2014-2017? You're lumping together a time frame that includes both pre-ACA and post-ACA periods. You don't think that's dishonest?

all the while you've yet to show insurance companies are embracing obamacare, or to find evidence to dispute the evidence i have provided.

I never said they were embracing it. I said that consumers are, as is evidenced by the plummeting uninsured rate. Insurance companies can suck it for all I care.

 

[iceberg]

so you link that it's going down. i link it's going up.

this is why these convos get tiring as all this started when you called me a liar for saying what my friend was going through. given that's where you began i just don't have a shitload of interest in chasing things down as it's pretty plain you're not going to see where i'm coming from or acknowledge it.

have a day.

 

[Avatar4321]

This is the fundamental problem.

Democrats worked hard to get healthcare for as many Americans as possible. Republicans managed to make it something evil at the time, but now that people's children, wives, husbands and elderly parents are being taken care of, many Republicans have decided they like it.

So how do they negotiate? On one side you have Republicans who have no problem with millions of poor and middle class suffering and dying. On the other hand, you have Democrats trying to protect the same millions. Where is the common ground?

Obamacare is and always was evil. especially since it was designed not to work but instead to make people suffer enough to get a single layer system in.

Republicans have the opportunity to eliminate this system and return to the free market. They are choosing to abdicate that responsibility. But if you think that makes you blame free you are deluding yourself.

The blood of millions will be on your hands. And you don't give a crap.

You better hope none of those people are in my family.

 

[The Derp]

Wow...you really don't grasp the concept that having 24,000,000 people with health insurance that is being paid for by huge subsidies that OTHER people are going to have to pay for...works GREAT for the 24 million people with the subsidies...BUT TOTALLY SUCKS ASS FOR THE ONES THAT HAVE TO PAY FOR IT WITH SKYROCKETING PREMIUMS ON THEIR POLICIES?

You mean it sucks for the rich, who have to pay slightly more in taxes. And BTW - premium increases before Obamacare were greater than post-Obamacare.

 

[The Derp]

ok you antagonistic assnugget - this is what i said. you can't have a for profit insurance company helping make things more affordable. we have an INSURANCE FUCKING PROBLEM not healthcare.

And I totally, 100% agree! See, we are in alignment here. Now, what do we do about this? We have to make a choice as to what is more important; universal coverage or insurance profits. I think it's an easy choice to make, given the service an insurance company actually performs.

to fix that is to completely redo both industries as to how they are now and that's a lot of money you're bucking up against so it's not realistic now is it?

Not really, because think about what function an insurance company actually serves; administration. So you don't have to redo health insurance, and you definitely don't have to redo health care because the only thing we are talking about is the entity that reimburses your doctor for health care after you've already received it. That's not germane to health care delivery, is it?

 

[The Derp]

No I am not saying that - you are. .

But that is what insurance does. You have to first sign up for an insurance plan and then you choose your doctor. Shouldn't it be reversed since all the insurer does is reimburse your doctor from the pool of premiums you pay into? Insurers act like bouncers to health care. That's backwards, isn't it? Don't you want to choose the best doctor that suits your needs? What if that doctor is not in your provider network? That means you have to cancel your current plan, wait until open enrollment in order to re-enroll in a plan your doctor accepts. With a single payer, there are no provider networks, which means patients have true choice when it comes to the doctors and providers they want.

I am talking about purchasing health care insurance, being able to make my own decisions rather than having Barak Obama or the federal govt dictating to me the minimum level of insurance THEY believe I should have.

They believe that level of insurance is what everyone should have. This isn't about you. What you should really be saying is that you don't want to pay premiums that will go to pay for health care of people you don't know or have anything to do with. That's what this is really about, isn't it? You want to wall yourself off from the rest of society to serve your own myopic goals. Well, all that means is that you're anti-social. Which isn't an ideology, but rather a behavior. Also, that thinking completely undermines the purpose of health insurance. This is what I mean when I say Conservatives have no fucking idea what they want.

I am talking about free market where there is more than 1 choice to choose from, instead of the one choice in some cases - or none now - thanks to the ACA, which has partly caused the huge spike in premium cost.

More than one choice of what? An entity that reimburses your provider. Why does that choice matter to you? It's not even a transaction you are a part of.

 

[The Derp]

so you link that it's going down. i link it's going up.

What's going down and up? Premiums? I never said, and my links never said, that premiums were going down. What I've said is that the rate by which premiums grow is lower now than it was pre-ACA. Below is from Kaiser Family Foundation:

 

[easyt65]

No I am not saying that - you are. .

But that is what insurance does. You have to first sign up for an insurance plan and then you choose your doctor. Shouldn't it be reversed since all the insurer does is reimburse your doctor from the pool of premiums you pay into? Insurers act like bouncers to health care. That's backwards, isn't it? Don't you want to choose the best doctor that suits your needs? What if that doctor is not in your provider network? That means you have to cancel your current plan, wait until open enrollment in order to re-enroll in a plan your doctor accepts. With a single payer, there are no provider networks, which means patients have true choice when it comes to the doctors and providers they want.

I am talking about purchasing health care insurance, being able to make my own decisions rather than having Barak Obama or the federal govt dictating to me the minimum level of insurance THEY believe I should have.

They believe that level of insurance is what everyone should have. This isn't about you. What you should really be saying is that you don't want to pay premiums that will go to pay for health care of people you don't know or have anything to do with. That's what this is really about, isn't it? You want to wall yourself off from the rest of society to serve your own myopic goals. Well, all that means is that you're anti-social. Which isn't an ideology, but rather a behavior. Also, that thinking completely undermines the purpose of health insurance. This is what I mean when I say Conservatives have no fucking idea what they want.

I am talking about free market where there is more than 1 choice to choose from, instead of the one choice in some cases - or none now - thanks to the ACA, which has partly caused the huge spike in premium cost.

More than one choice of what? An entity that reimburses your provider. Why does that choice matter to you? It's not even a transaction you are a part of.

What a long-winded diatribe intended to distract from the fact that Obama and the Democrats' plan all along with the passage of Obamacare was to acquire more power and control while stripping Americans of their own choices and concerns over their health care.

 

[iceberg]

at this point you've said just about everything and are all over the map. i'm out.

 

[The Derp]

What a long-winded diatribe intended to distract from the fact that Obama and the Democrats' plan all along with the passage of Obamacare was to acquire more power and control while stripping Americans of their own choices and concerns over their health care.

No, it just seems like there are things I wrote that you cannot bring yourself to admit are true for the sake of your own ego.

Get over yourself.

 

[kwc57]

You ignored the question:

WHY are Democrats childishly throwing a tantrum, 'taking their ball' and refusing to 'play' because they are not getting their way?

It's ok, I can't explain it either.

Why?

Eight years of observing how the GOP playbook works. Republicans have not exactly built up any good will with the Democratic lawmakers. They can't exactly say......remember that bill I helped you out on?

Was it one of the 350+ bills that Democrat Harry Reid sat on that caused Democrats who couldn't show anything back home to lose elections at a record pace? It wouldn't have mattered if a Republican had helped on a bill when you have a dictator controlling the bills and holding them for 2 years. Remember that when you point your finger, you have 3 pointing back at you. The whole speck in your eye thing......

Reid applied the same standard of 60 votes that Republicans insisted the Democrats have to bring a bill to the floor

How many of those 350 "Repeal Obamacare" bills had 60 votes?
Let me count......Ummmmmm...None

Well you disingenuous boob, the 350 bills were not repeal bills. A good number were indeed written by Democrats, but Harry killed them anyway leaving them with nothing to show their constituents when they went back home. And you can't get to 60 votes when the bills are used for a highchair to help you see over the edge of your desk. A bill has to be introduced and debated to be voted on to get to 60. Harry never let that happen.......350+ times.......over 2 years. Harry cut the Democrats throat running interference for vote present Obama who didn't want to have to look bad vetoing bills the American people wanted. Look, the demise of the Democratic party lies at the feet of Obama, Reid and Pelosi with an assist during the campaign by Wasserman Schultz and Hillary. Now you guys think the way back is to double down on your geriatric ideas and go even bolder on leftwing policies. Please! Please do!

Once again...you FAIL

Point to a single one of those bills that had 60 votes....NONE
That is the standard Democrats had to meet

You need 60 votes to even be debated....that is cloture

Do I really have to explain it to you? Are you really that stupid? If a Majority Leader holds the bill and doesn't even let it be introduced.......IT CAN'T GET DEBATED OR 60 VOTES. Reid acted like they didn't even exist. He simply ignored them and said he had bigger fish to fry and there wasn't time to entertain any of the bills. In short, Reid was a one man, walking and talking, bottle neck obstruction in Congress. He and he alone took every bill sent over from the House and just said no. You'll discuss what I want, nothing else. 60 votes made no difference. He can't magically know whether a bill would get to 60 votes unless it is introduced, debated and voted on. School is out. You're welcome. Dunce.

 

[kwc57]

Well you disingenuous boob, the 350 bills were not repeal bills.

At least 60 were repeal bills, probably about 25 were anti-abortion bills, the rest were probably tax cuts and deregulation. So same shit, different day from the Party of No Idea.

Reid just laughed them off as typical ridiculous Republican legislation

Republican Snowflakes whimpered.....Reid won't vote on out bills! <sob>

Kind of like the Democrats whining that they aren't consulted on the new healthcare bill. Payback is a bitch when you thought you were going to be in power for the next 100 years and find yourself sucking hind teat a couple of years down the road. Pot, kettle, black. Hypocrite.

Oh, and Reid never voted on a bill because he sat on them and wouldn't let them come before the Senate. I've explained this verifiably fact to you numerous times. Sad that you aren't intelligent enough or honest enough to admit the truth.

 

[kwc57]

Why?

Eight years of observing how the GOP playbook works. Republicans have not exactly built up any good will with the Democratic lawmakers. They can't exactly say......remember that bill I helped you out on?

Was it one of the 350+ bills that Democrat Harry Reid sat on that caused Democrats who couldn't show anything back home to lose elections at a record pace? It wouldn't have mattered if a Republican had helped on a bill when you have a dictator controlling the bills and holding them for 2 years. Remember that when you point your finger, you have 3 pointing back at you. The whole speck in your eye thing......

Reid applied the same standard of 60 votes that Republicans insisted the Democrats have to bring a bill to the floor

How many of those 350 "Repeal Obamacare" bills had 60 votes?
Let me count......Ummmmmm...None

Well you disingenuous boob, the 350 bills were not repeal bills. A good number were indeed written by Democrats, but Harry killed them anyway leaving them with nothing to show their constituents when they went back home. And you can't get to 60 votes when the bills are used for a highchair to help you see over the edge of your desk. A bill has to be introduced and debated to be voted on to get to 60. Harry never let that happen.......350+ times.......over 2 years. Harry cut the Democrats throat running interference for vote present Obama who didn't want to have to look bad vetoing bills the American people wanted. Look, the demise of the Democratic party lies at the feet of Obama, Reid and Pelosi with an assist during the campaign by Wasserman Schultz and Hillary. Now you guys think the way back is to double down on your geriatric ideas and go even bolder on leftwing policies. Please! Please do!

Once again...you FAIL

Point to a single one of those bills that had 60 votes....NONE
That is the standard Democrats had to meet

You need 60 votes to even be debated....that is cloture

Republicans added in over 130 amendments over a year and a half and then refused to vote for Obamacare.

On Trumpcare, Republicans did the entire thing in secret behind closed doors in only a few days.

Are you retarded, delusional or both?

 

[Spare_change]

You, of course, have absolutely zero justification for your comments, but, hey ... that isn't the point anyway, is it?

Bring the proof to the table and I'll be happy to shoot holes in it. (PLEASE - cite the CBO report - PLEASE!! I would consider it a great favor.)

You need to watch news other than Fox and Breitbart. Democrats brought healthcare to millions of Americans that never had it before and the GOP is trying to take it away and give nearly a trillion in tax cuts to the super rich. Period. That's what's happening. That's the debate. It can't be denied.

That's absolutely, categorically, false. Your shallow understanding of this issue reminds me of a mud puddle --- not very deep and decidedly muddled.

Democrats provided healthcare to nobody . Everybody always had healthcare.

Democrats bought mandatory healthcare insurance to SOME of those who hadn't bought it.

Republicans are taking nothing away .... except the government requirement that you MUST buy healthcare INSURANCE, excessive and onerous taxes, and a person's right to self determination.

You said: Everybody always had healthcare.


And then you said what I said was false? Something is wrong with you. Seriously. There is a problem there.
There are places you can look in to.
Compare Online Therapy Services | E-Counseling.com

You said that ACA "brought healthcare to millions of Americans that never had it before" ... that is categorically false. People didn't have healthcare INSURANCE, but healthcare was always available (even at the local ER). Ergo, it is impossible for Democrats to have brought healthcare to those who already had it.

If you live out in the country, many times, there is no ER. Or there is no doctor available.

And many country hospitals are the largest provider of jobs in their area.

Take away their medicaid and many of those hospitals close.

Meaning no healthcare and many fewer jobs.

And if you have to wait until you go to the emergency room, it's probably too late anyway.

What the f*ck is it you think you are defending? Because my hand is getting tired from all the b!tch slaps.

if there are no hospitals and no emergency room, all the healthcare INSURANCE in the world won't help you. That's, simply, an asinine comment.

As for county hospitals and Medicaid, you are simply, once again, grossly misinformed. There is no intent to eliminate Medicaid. There, simply, is an attempt to move responsibility for LOCAL health care to the LOCAL government, with a generous financial assistance from the federal government to facilitate the transition. You need to stop getting your talking points from the backs of Cheerios boxes.

 

[kwc57]

Uh huh......that's why Reid is still the Senate Majority Leader and Pelosi is over the House and Hillary is the first female President of the United States. Oh wait........the American people thru the geriatric party of bad socialist ideas out of office. Wake up derp, it's 2017 and you lost. YUGE!!!

No, Russia is the reason Trump is President.

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah.......gasp......hahahahahahahahahahaha...

I've got a bridge for sale you might be interested in rube.

Read it, learn it, live it. The Late, Great Russian Collusion Myth - American Greatness

 

[rightwinger]

Again, what does the OP NOT understand about the Democrats' Leader Schumer Declaring the Democrats are 100% committed to Obstructing EVERYTHING the GOP and President seeks to accomplish over the next 4 years.

NEWSFLASH, SNOWFLAKES:
It's not just the GOP pi$$ed off at Democrats for not being willing to 'play nice' - to do their jobs and work for the good of the COUNTRY instead of what is good for the DNC.

THAT s why Democrats have lost 1,000+ elections, 5 Special Elections, 2 Historic Record-Setting Elections, The House, the Senate, and the WH!

Good for Schumer....he has learned a valuable lesson

Republicans did nothing but obstruct and still won the elections. The voters do not care

Let Republicans explain to their base why they didn't repeal Obamacare, build a wall, balance the budget, cut taxes or bring back jobs from China