Hilarious! Republicans are saying Democrats won't work with them hoping to spread the blame

[The Derp]

If you live out in the country, many times, there is no ER. Or there is no doctor available.
And many country hospitals are the largest provider of jobs in their area.
Take away their medicaid and many of those hospitals close.
Meaning no healthcare and many fewer jobs.
And if you have to wait until you go to the emergency room, it's probably too late anyway.
What the f*ck is it you think you are defending? Because my hand is getting tired from all the b!tch slaps.

One thing I think could help this issue is forgiving the student loan debt of anyone who gets a medical degree and works for x number of years in a rural or under-served area, delivering health care. Surely that's something both sides of the political spectrum can get behind, yes? Surely that's common ground we can all agree on, right?

 

[The Derp]

...the Democrats still fighting for Obama's 'Legacy', the road paved with lies leading to Socialist Single Payer that was imposed on the majority of Americans who never wanted it.

What do you care what entity reimburses your doctor? It's not even a transaction you're a part of.

 

[BULLDOG]

No. Republicans gained because obstruction works.

Let me guess...based on your Fake News narrative you must work for CNN.

GOP Obstruction?

The Democrats had a near super-majority control of Congress the last 2 years under Bush and the 1st 2 years under Obama.

Obama refused to even MEET with the GOP after winning in 2008 for approximately a YEAR.

When Democrats were not using their near-super majority control of Congress to impose their Socialist Agenda-driven will on the American people - like they did with Obamacare - Barry was simply by-passing Congress altogether, like he did in starting his own 2 personal, Un-Constitutional, UN-Approved wars .

Go pedal that liberal fecal matter-infused fairy tale somewhere else, snowflake.

Captain America called and said tell you to take that costume off. You
re stretching the damn thing out.

 

[The Derp]

if obama care is so great why is it falling apart?

It's not. More people sign up every year. The uninsured rate continues to decline to historic lows. That's not indicative of a system failure. This is the "fog of controversy" Pelosi was referring to when she said we had to pass the bill so everyone knew what was in it.

better question - why can't both sides see the only answer is to work together, not force their ideas on the other side "for their own good"

The problem as I see it is that Conservatives want to undo Obama's legacy in order to make Bush the Dumber's look better by comparison. We all know there is no viable reform other than single payer or returning to the system pre-ACA that everyone hated. Conservatives are not being honest when they say they will guarantee universal coverage and maintain private insurance profits. Those two things are diametrically opposed to one another. You can't do both. So Conservatives need to make a choice as to what is more important; universal coverage or insurance company profits. Because you can't have both.

 

[The Derp]

When they rant on and on about Obamacare 'collapsing' they're really only talking about the exchanges, which in reality serve only about 3% of the population.
Fix that. Leave the rest alone.

Fix is so simple; a Public Option that provides a check on insurers.

 

[jc456]

/----- So the collapse of obozocare is all the Republicans fault

Obamacare isn't collapsing. Conservatives are lying about it, just like they've been lying about it from the start. If it was collapsing, then there wouldn't be 24,000,000 people with insurance coverage now who previously didn't have it. And that number continues to climb every year. So, we are back to Conservative fantasy clashing with reality. On top of that, Conservatives don't even know what it is they want the system to look like. All they know is what they don't want, and that's a very childish and lazy way to approach policy, particularly when you're the governing party in control.

 

[iceberg]

...the Democrats still fighting for Obama's 'Legacy', the road paved with lies leading to Socialist Single Payer that was imposed on the majority of Americans who never wanted it.

And snowflakes call preserving the 'screw job' a 'VICTORY'...for the Democratic Party, NOT the American people.

Why doesn't the right just repeal and replace it with that great plan they have been bragging about for the last 8 years? We all know it will be great because that's what you have been saying for so long.

if obama care is so great why is it falling apart?

better question - why can't both sides see the only answer is to work together, not force their ideas on the other side "for their own good"

take the best of both sides, we all win.
push any 1 side, we all lose.

pick a side.

Odd that the right would suddenly come to that conclusion after 8 years. Think of what we could have accomplished without those 8 years of nothing but obstruction.

odd that you seem to think in absolutes only and have some desire for payback.

i get it. i understand it. but every time one side does it the other ratchets it up more for no other reason than what the last side got away with.

how many parents do you see with their kids taking the whole "well he started it" as a valid excuse to continue it? if you have 2 kids who kept fighting and their sole reason was "the other started it" do you sit back and hear both sides and impart the wisdom of solomon w/o baby killing of course. or do you tell them both to grow up and stop it? if #1 how is that working out for you? if #2, how is that working out for the country itself?

as far as who actually started it - that wasn't obama only. every side that comes into power usually does so at the ire of the other side so since core goals are different then yes, one side will try to block the other from doing such evil things.

So give some reason to believe the right is willing to work together in the future. Lots of righties bragging about their political gains because obstruction works. It's your turn in the barrel.

give me a reason to think the left will listen if they try.

all i ever see on both sides is the other side is at fault. if you're ok with the perm-payback mentality then you and i will never agree as i see this has something both sides need to put down and run away from as fast as we can.

 

[jc456]

most people i know their insurance coverage went down and premiums went up on obama care.

And right here is the problem with all right-wingers...they have no facts to support their argument, so instead they rely on anecdotes and unverifiable personal circumstances to lend their argument credibility it doesn't otherwise have. Strip out all your references to anecdotes and "what you've heard", and you'll find that Conservative posts are hollow. If you cannot make an argument on facts that can be verified, then you're not making an argument, you're just spitting conjecture. You wouldn't believe me if I told you I was Tom Brady, so why the fuck should I believe you when you say things about yourself or what you've "heard" that no one else has? It's called accountability, and it is something seriously lacking in your posts.

couple that with many places simply not accepting it - how is what we have from obamacare any good at all?

Simply not accepting what? What places? What are you talking about? Obamacare isn't an insurance plan, it's a marketplace where insurance plans compete on a level playing field for customers. This is what I mean when I say Conservatives have no idea what they're talking about, have no idea what reform they want to do, and don't even have an idea of what system they want to see. They're just contrarians at this point, saying they don't like anything so they don't have to do the hard work of actually thinking of an idea because they are by nature incredibly lazy and sloppy people with poor work ethics. If they did, they'd come to find that there's really no better way to reform Obamacare unless we either introduced a public option, or went full single payer. There's no other path forward than those, or returning to the system pre-ACA. You need to grow up and get a grip.

put aside the republicans planning for now - how is obamacare "working" today?

Working just fine. It's accomplishing its goal of lowering the uninsured rate. Premium increases have been the same as, or below what they were pre-ACA. All the Conservative lies in the world won't change those facts.

dude, you really are the derp

 

[iceberg]

you mean like you calling my friend a liar? THAT type of discounting? yiur friends seem right n mine wrong ror some reasonwonder why.

I'm not calling your friend a liar, I'm calling you a liar. You're relaying second-hand information, informed by bias, on a message board and submitting it as some kind of fact when you know there's no way to verify the legitimacy of the claims. Like what happened with Julie Boonstra, for example.

so i'm lying cause i told you what my friend said.

if i have zero experience in the areas you are speaking of how can i be lying if i don't speak of them also? to me, and the experiences i have, obama care is crap.

now should i follow you around and do the LIAR LIAR dance any and every time you cite someone else as a reference?

hint - no. that would be as stupid as you're being now.

 

[easyt65]

What do you care what entity reimburses your doctor? It's not even a transaction you're a part of.

Can you really be THAT ignorant?

What am I saying - of course you can.

It's not about who is paying doctors - it is and always has been about CONTROL and Power, stripping Americans of their right to choose their own level of health care.

 

[The Derp]

so i'm lying cause i told you what my friend said.

No one can verify whether your friend said that or not. In fact, no one can verify you actually have this friend in the first place. I just find this tactic lazy because it doesn't actually acknowledge the reality of the data that we can see. Anyone can just make any claim about anything any person said. Doesn't mean that claim is real or not. And it's not something that can be debated because it's all hearsay. That's why debates don't generally allow anecdotes. You should be able to make an argument without invoking personal anecdotes that are not verifiable. And if you can't do that, then maybe it's not a argument you should be making.

if i have zero experience in the areas you are speaking of how can i be lying if i don't speak of them also? to me, and the experiences i have, obama care is crap.

Well, 24,000,000 people would disagree with you. I don't have experience in health care either, but I do have experience reading and digesting data and information. You don't have to be an expert on health care to grasp this policy. All you have to do is grasp the facts and data, and those both show Obamacare isn't failing, but rather succeeding in achieving its goal of universal coverage by cutting the uninsured population virtually in half. It would have been even bigger had the Conservative death panels in red states expand Medicaid. But Conservatives are too consumed with tarnishing Obama's legacy to make up for the fact that their legacy was tarnished by Bush the Dumber and his cadre of Conservative morons.

now should i follow you around and do the LIAR LIAR dance any and every time you cite someone else as a reference?

Sure! Go for it! You'll find, though, that you won't be able to do this because I don't use that tactic. I can make my arguments based on the facts, not what I may or may not have heard from someone who may or may not have heard something else from someone else. The telephone game is no way to debate, dude.

 

[iceberg]

if obama care is so great why is it falling apart?

It's not. More people sign up every year. The uninsured rate continues to decline to historic lows. That's not indicative of a system failure. This is the "fog of controversy" Pelosi was referring to when she said we had to pass the bill so everyone knew what was in it.

better question - why can't both sides see the only answer is to work together, not force their ideas on the other side "for their own good"

The problem as I see it is that Conservatives want to undo Obama's legacy in order to make Bush the Dumber's look better by comparison. We all know there is no viable reform other than single payer or returning to the system pre-ACA that everyone hated. Conservatives are not being honest when they say they will guarantee universal coverage and maintain private insurance profits. Those two things are diametrically opposed to one another. You can't do both. So Conservatives need to make a choice as to what is more important; universal coverage or insurance company profits. Because you can't have both.

the problem i see is you're doing identity politics and ONLY identity politics.

obama = good to you
trump = bad to you

and everything is centered around WHO is doing it not what is being done.

you can't get more stupid than this. sorry.

now - as for falling apart:
Obamacare 'on the cusp of falling apart' as insurers flee health exchanges
insurance agencies are bailing. and look - a lot of references to other people and their experiences in the matter. so now i suppose this site is lying cause it relies on other people for their viewpoints as well in the article.

Health Insurance Premiums Up 131% in Last Ten Years | TIME.com
wow. 131% in the last 10 years. so people citing paying twice as much must be out there. unless TIME is lying also. take that up with them.

so keep it up. i'm beyond caring what you have to say cause you're not listening, just calling me a liar.

 

[iceberg]

so i'm lying cause i told you what my friend said.

No one can verify whether your friend said that or not. In fact, no one can verify you actually have this friend in the first place. I just find this tactic lazy because it doesn't actually acknowledge the reality of the data that we can see. Anyone can just make any claim about anything any person said. Doesn't mean that claim is real or not. And it's not something that can be debated because it's all hearsay. That's why debates don't generally allow anecdotes. You should be able to make an argument without invoking personal anecdotes that are not verifiable. And if you can't do that, then maybe it's not a argument you should be making.

if i have zero experience in the areas you are speaking of how can i be lying if i don't speak of them also? to me, and the experiences i have, obama care is crap.

Well, 24,000,000 people would disagree with you. I don't have experience in health care either, but I do have experience reading and digesting data and information. You don't have to be an expert on health care to grasp this policy. All you have to do is grasp the facts and data, and those both show Obamacare isn't failing, but rather succeeding in achieving its goal of universal coverage by cutting the uninsured population virtually in half. It would have been even bigger had the Conservative death panels in red states expand Medicaid. But Conservatives are too consumed with tarnishing Obama's legacy to make up for the fact that their legacy was tarnished by Bush the Dumber and his cadre of Conservative morons.

now should i follow you around and do the LIAR LIAR dance any and every time you cite someone else as a reference?

Sure! Go for it! You'll find, though, that you won't be able to do this because I don't use that tactic. I can make my arguments based on the facts, not what I may or may not have heard from someone who may or may not have heard something else from someone else. The telephone game is no way to debate, dude.

so you're one of those who spouts your opinion and go THAT'S THE FACT, JACK.

got it and goodbye. pointless having these convos with you as it's 100% 1 sided.

 

[The Derp]

It's not about who is paying doctors

Well, that's what health insurance companies do. That's the only thing they do. So what do you care what entity reimburses your provider? You should only care that your provider is reimbursed. It has no impact on you who administers that reimbursement.

- it is and always has been about CONTROL and Power, stripping Americans of their right to choose their own level of health care.

Wait, so you've moved on from choosing the doctor you want by shifting the goalposts to the level of health care??? Just so you know, that's a new thing for you guys. Insurance companies control what doctors you can and cannot see, not you. You have to get insurance first and then you get to pick your doctor. Doesn't that seem backwards to you?

 

[easyt65]

It's not about who is paying doctors

Well, that's what health insurance companies do.

Except in a free market the consumer can negotiate exactly what he wants with the insurers, can choose the plans that fit them / they can afford, that gives them the best coverage ... the insurance companies do not MANDATE what coverage they must buy, can not dictate what the consumer can and can not get.

CONTROL - POWER...The elimination of Americans' control over their own health care, placing them at the mercy of the same government that has illegally spied on them, has illegally used the IRS to punish them for their political choices, has lied to them and rammed socialist-agenda driven failed programs in order to HERD them into a position where they lose their freedom of choice and power over their own lives.

 

[Oldstyle]

/----- So the collapse of obozocare is all the Republicans fault

Obamacare isn't collapsing. Conservatives are lying about it, just like they've been lying about it from the start. If it was collapsing, then there wouldn't be 24,000,000 people with insurance coverage now who previously didn't have it. And that number continues to climb every year. So, we are back to Conservative fantasy clashing with reality. On top of that, Conservatives don't even know what it is they want the system to look like. All they know is what they don't want, and that's a very childish and lazy way to approach policy, particularly when you're the governing party in control.

Wow...you really don't grasp the concept that having 24,000,000 people with health insurance that is being paid for by huge subsidies that OTHER people are going to have to pay for...works GREAT for the 24 million people with the subsidies...BUT TOTALLY SUCKS ASS FOR THE ONES THAT HAVE TO PAY FOR IT WITH SKYROCKETING PREMIUMS ON THEIR POLICIES?

 

[The Derp]

the problem i see is you're doing identity politics and ONLY identity politics.
obama = good to you
trump = bad to you
and everything is centered around WHO is doing it not what is being done.

Well, look...did everything Obama do sit well with me? No. For instance, I completely 100% oppose the use of drone strikes. I thought that he should have been much tougher on Wall Street and Silicon Valley. I think he made the wrong move by increasing our commitment to Afghanistan when we should be getting out of there, and the lack of a Public Option -or a fight for one- upset me too. But there is nothing Trump has done that I can see benefiting the country. The era of identity politics started not with Obama, but with Bush the Dumber, who made the Culture Wars central to his campaigns (but moreso in 2004). Sarah Palin and the teabags amplified it, and Donald Trump capitalized on it.

The problem is that Conservatives simply have no idea what it is they want to reform, how they want to reform it, and what reform looks like realistically. All they know is what they don't want. And that's incredibly lazy.

now - as for falling apart:
Obamacare 'on the cusp of falling apart' as insurers flee health exchanges
insurance agencies are bailing. and look - a lot of references to other people and their experiences in the matter. so now i suppose this site is lying cause it relies on other people for their viewpoints as well in the article.

First of all, as we learned this past January, the reasons insurance companies are giving for leaving exchanges are not on the up-and-up. So since Aetna so blatantly lied about their reasons for leaving the exchanges, why would any other insurer be telling the truth?

Secondly, we've been hearing for the last 7 years that Obamacare collapse is right around the corner. Like the predictions of hyperinflation, a market collapse, job loss, a recession, etc., it's never come to pass. If Obamacare hasn't collapsed by now, it's not going to. You need to be realistic about it and cease with the exaggerations and deception.

Finally, if these insurers are leaving the exchanges, what's the reason why? Because it costs their profit margins to provide universal coverage. So you have made this a very stark choice between patient needs and corporate profits. So which is more important to you? Because both cannot exist in the same space. This forces you to actually have to take a position for something, as it's the only truthful choice that exists. So until Conservatives reconcile that dilemma, everything they say is just noise.

wow. 131% in the last 10 years. so people citing paying twice as much must be out there. unless TIME is lying also. take that up with them.
so keep it up. i'm beyond caring what you have to say cause you're not listening, just calling me a liar.

Sure, the premiums increased just as they did prior to the ACA. But of course, those purchasing that coverage aren't likely paying the full cost, and some of the premiums are defrayed by the subsidies in the bill. But again, it seems to me that you're dancing around the elephant in the room; which is that you can't have for-profit insurance companies and universal coverage. So you have a choice to make.

 

[The Derp]

so you're one of those who spouts your opinion and go THAT'S THE FACT, JACK.

My opinions are informed by facts. Yours seem to be informed by bias and hearsay. I never use unverifiable personal anecdotes in my posts, mostly because no one cares about my personal experiences as they're not relevant to the debate. Conservatives simply don't want to have a debate on a level playing field of data, choosing instead to invoke things they know cannot be verified. I get why you guys do that, I really do. But just know that I don't accept that crap.

got it and goodbye. pointless having these convos with you as it's 100% 1 sided.

How so? Because I won't let you get away with hearsay and unverifiable anecdotes? Come on, man.

 

[iceberg]

so you're one of those who spouts your opinion and go THAT'S THE FACT, JACK.

My opinions are informed by facts. Yours seem to be informed by bias and hearsay. I never use unverifiable personal anecdotes in my posts, mostly because no one cares about my personal experiences as they're not relevant to the debate. Conservatives simply don't want to have a debate on a level playing field of data, choosing instead to invoke things they know cannot be verified. I get why you guys do that, I really do. But just know that I don't accept that crap.

got it and goodbye. pointless having these convos with you as it's 100% 1 sided.

How so? Because I won't let you get away with hearsay and unverifiable anecdotes? Come on, man.

what have you done to validate your "facts" other than to say they come from you and this is all you use?

as for "get away with heresay" - i provided an article that said 130% increase in rates in 10 years. does that or does that not validate what my friend said in his insurance doubled? others must be seeing it also as i doubt time would report on 1 user.

you continue to put people into stereotypes so you can argue as such. i am not a stereotype, and i don't want to treat you as one. i will "treat you" as you act to me and so far that's pretty antagonistic and calling me a liar and accusing me of trying to "get away with something" all the while you've yet to show insurance companies are embracing obamacare, or to find evidence to dispute the evidence i have provided.

i don't give a mouse fart in a torando how you FEEL about it. feelings ain't facts.

i backed up what i said. you just scream louder and pretend that's fine.

 

[The Derp]

Except in a free market the consumer can negotiate exactly what he wants with the insurers, can choose the plans that fit them / they can afford, that gives them the best coverage

Again, that's entirely backwards. You're saying that in order to go to a doctor, you first have to get insurance unless you are going to pay the full cost out of pocket. The insurance companies do not negotiate with individuals to craft specific plans tailored specifically to your needs. That isn't how health insurance works. This is what I am talking about when I say Conservatives don't know enough about this subject to debate. It's absurd to think that an insurance company would devise millions of separate, tailored plans for each consumer. And every person has different health care needs. That's why you want as broad a premium pool as possible, not smaller ones. Smaller pools might work in the short-term, but not in the long-term, and not in the event of unexpected medical needs. So stop chasing the instant gratification and think big picture.

.. the insurance companies do not MANDATE what coverage they must buy, can not dictate what the consumer can and can not get.

They absolutely do! What do you think a provider network is? And insurance companies, in order to create insurance pools, have essential benefits (or mandated benefits) which in turn dictate what you as a patient can and cannot get. Meaning you don't actually have free choice when it comes to your medical care. You only have choice under the purview of your insurance company. Now why should they be inserting themselves into your medical needs, since all they do is administrate payment and nothing more. You think this is about a patient choosing health care providers, but it isn't. A patient must first choose an insurance company, and then they get to choose their doctor. So you have an insurance company limiting your choices right from the start. So how is that free market for health care? Seems the opposite, actually.

CONTROL - POWER...The elimination of Americans' control over their own health care, placing them at the mercy of the same government that has illegally spied on them, has illegally used the IRS to punish them for their political choices, has lied to them and rammed socialist-agenda driven failed programs in order to HERD them into a position where they lose their freedom of choice and power over their own lives.

So once again, you cannot make an argument for privatizing the administrative process of reimbursement. Instead you spit vile rhetoric and conjecture that really reads more like a projection of your own insecurities. Since government is us, and you don't trust the government, then that means you don't really trust yourself.