Hillary, Democrats and their hatred of Catholics

[emilynghiem]

So now that at least two people agree that human life begins at conception and that it is wrong to end a human life, I'd like to ask this question...

Is it virtuous to do the right thing if someone is making you do it?

ding let me ask you this
If you have free choice to adopt and enforce prolife as policy,
what gives you the right to take that free choice from someone else to decide as you did
without force of law.

I ask the same thing of Obama who supposedly flipped on gay marriage.
Just because he chose to change his mind freely, not because laws made him,
does that give him the right to take that same freedom from someone
else to decide freely instead of being forced to by govt.

Also, let's compare prolife beliefs with Christian faith.

I would say that forcing someone to adopt and follow a faith against their will
is not only wrong and abusive, but ineffective and false.
It makes them do the opposite and reject that thing you are forcing on them.

I've seen people ruined because Christian practice was forced on them.

So again I find it more effective and superior when people
choose to follow and adopt a belief than it forced on them.

With abortion, some cases are like that. Not all.
Some people really do believe and want it to be compelled and need that.

So again, let's separate the two groups. And let those who need it to be
policy be under that group, and those who rebel and reject if it's forced on them
be in the other group. Just like Christian faith or Muslim faith.
Some people WANT to be part of a group that gives up meat or pork
or blood surgeries. some people don't.

It's more important to respect Constitutional laws first,
then use that to prevent abuses that lead to abortion,
rather than violate people's beliefs about laws
and achieve neither end.

I believe both can be achieved by prochoice means.
Wiping out abortion AND enforcing constitutional laws.

But by imposing prolife then neither will be accomplished
because the people will be divided and rebel, distracting from the goal.

 

[Votto]

So now that at least two people agree that human life begins at conception and that it is wrong to end a human life, I'd like to ask this question...

Is it virtuous to do the right thing if someone is making you do it?

I think laws against murder are needed for society in order to maintain civility.

What say you?

But you are right in that laws restrict our freedom so passing them should be done with great trepidation.

I guess that's why the US federal government passes about 40,000 new laws and regulations every year.

No one ever flinches about that, do they?

 

[ding]

Sure dogs are conscious, but do you know if they are conscious like you and I. Are they self aware? Do they have a concept of right and wrong?

So if you are a sociopath you are not human?

No. I don't believe I said that. You are confusing conscience with consciousness. Look, I agree with you, we are granted inalienable rights for no other reason than we are God's creatures, but in dealing with secularists I find it more effective to deal with them on their terms.

If we deal with them on their terms, it leads to genocide.

It's probably going to lead to that anyway, or at least to the next big war. It is called the saeculum cycle. It takes two generations to forget. It is the account of the OT. We are doomed to repeat these cycles.

ding I compare the same way the Catholic church went through the Reformation
and people argued the Catholic authority was sold out to money and not following the laws,
today the US is going through this where the people rise up and argue the govt is following
money and not following the laws.

So we are going through the same Reformation through natural laws and not the govt acting as middle man,
as similar to when the Reformation put the focus on scriptural laws and not the church acting as middle man.

Yeah, no. There is a great deal of misunderstanding about the reformation. I'm not going to get into it, but I will say, that if Luther had seen what came of it all, he probably would have wished he had done things differently. I know people believe that money is at the root of all evil, but it is really pride that is. Furthermore, the cosmic battle between good and evil is being fought between free enterprise and socialism and free enterprise is losing. May God help us all. I have no doubt that we will all experience a major societal upheaval in our time. The only question is when and what will it be that triggers it.

 

[ding]

So now that at least two people agree that human life begins at conception and that it is wrong to end a human life, I'd like to ask this question...

Is it virtuous to do the right thing if someone is making you do it?

ding let me ask you this
If you have free choice to adopt and enforce prolife as policy,
what gives you the right to take that free choice from someone else to decide as you did
without force of law.

I don't have free choice to adopt and enforce prolife as policy. I only have free choice on whether I follow or don't follow our society's laws.

But our society as a whole does have that right. What gives them that right? We live in a shared society with shared outcomes. The best interest of our society is served by an orderly and harmonious people. The best way to achieve that is through a virtuous people. Freedom and liberty cannot exist without virtue and morality. It just isn't possible.

 

[emilynghiem]

So if you are a sociopath you are not human?

No. I don't believe I said that. You are confusing conscience with consciousness. Look, I agree with you, we are granted inalienable rights for no other reason than we are God's creatures, but in dealing with secularists I find it more effective to deal with them on their terms.

If we deal with them on their terms, it leads to genocide.

It's probably going to lead to that anyway, or at least to the next big war. It is called the saeculum cycle. It takes two generations to forget. It is the account of the OT. We are doomed to repeat these cycles.

ding I compare the same way the Catholic church went through the Reformation
and people argued the Catholic authority was sold out to money and not following the laws,
today the US is going through this where the people rise up and argue the govt is following
money and not following the laws.

So we are going through the same Reformation through natural laws and not the govt acting as middle man,
as similar to when the Reformation put the focus on scriptural laws and not the church acting as middle man.

Yeah, no. There is a great deal of misunderstanding about the reformation. I'm not going to get into it, but I will say, that if Luther had seen what came of it all, he probably would have wished he had done things differently. I know people believe that money is at the root of all evil, but it is really pride that is. Furthermore, the cosmic battle between good and evil is being fought between free enterprise and socialism and free enterprise is losing. May God help us all. I have no doubt that we will all experience a major societal upheaval in our time. The only question is when and what will it be that triggers it.

Dear ding I think this right to life right to health care issue, and right to prayer right to marriage issue,
is enough to trigger a movement among the states and governors.

I have prolife friends ready to petition our Congress reps and Govt
to separate health care policies by track:
* if ACA mandates right to health care which free market believers don't believe in
then right to life believers should have that mandate that prochoice believers don't believe in
* if states are forced to recognize right to marriage in full and in public and also LGBT expressions
then states should also recognize right to prayer in full including all Christian references without discrrimination

Since you believe as my prolife friends do, who don't want abortion legal at all,
and since our TX Governor is conservative and so is Ted Cruz prolife and against gay marriage,
I think we can make this argument.

Would you like to join in writing and signing petitions on this issue?
To treat political beliefs equally
and not push right to health care without right to life included equally
(or else separate tracks for taxpayers to choose which to fund)
and not push right to marriage without pushing right to prayer
(or else separate school funding so people can choose which track to participate in)

Let me know if you are interested.
As I said before I am just as dedicated as a Constitutionalist
to defending your beliefs from infringement as my own.

We don't have to agree for me to argue
you have a right to equal protections and inclusion
without discrimination by creed. Let me know.

 

[ding]

So now that at least two people agree that human life begins at conception and that it is wrong to end a human life, I'd like to ask this question...

Is it virtuous to do the right thing if someone is making you do it?

I think laws against murder are needed for society in order to maintain civility.

What say you?

But you are right in that laws restrict our freedom so passing them should be done with great trepidation.

I guess that's why the US federal government passes about 40,000 new laws and regulations every year.

No one ever flinches about that, do they?

Sure, same thing I just told Emily. We live in a shared society with shared consequences. If we want order we will have to have laws that promote order, but that does not make its people virtuous as there is no virtue in being forced to do the right thing. Unless our people are virtuous on their own, there is no hope for liberty and freedom in this country. Abortion is just a sign of our disease. It isn't the disease. Our disease is that we are no longer a virtuous people and there will be consequences. History is littered with examples. Our Founding Fathers knew these things. We have forgotten them.

 

[ding]

No. I don't believe I said that. You are confusing conscience with consciousness. Look, I agree with you, we are granted inalienable rights for no other reason than we are God's creatures, but in dealing with secularists I find it more effective to deal with them on their terms.

If we deal with them on their terms, it leads to genocide.

It's probably going to lead to that anyway, or at least to the next big war. It is called the saeculum cycle. It takes two generations to forget. It is the account of the OT. We are doomed to repeat these cycles.

ding I compare the same way the Catholic church went through the Reformation
and people argued the Catholic authority was sold out to money and not following the laws,
today the US is going through this where the people rise up and argue the govt is following
money and not following the laws.

So we are going through the same Reformation through natural laws and not the govt acting as middle man,
as similar to when the Reformation put the focus on scriptural laws and not the church acting as middle man.

Yeah, no. There is a great deal of misunderstanding about the reformation. I'm not going to get into it, but I will say, that if Luther had seen what came of it all, he probably would have wished he had done things differently. I know people believe that money is at the root of all evil, but it is really pride that is. Furthermore, the cosmic battle between good and evil is being fought between free enterprise and socialism and free enterprise is losing. May God help us all. I have no doubt that we will all experience a major societal upheaval in our time. The only question is when and what will it be that triggers it.

Dear ding I think this right to life right to health care issue, and right to prayer right to marriage issue,
is enough to trigger a movement among the states and governors.

I have prolife friends ready to petition our Congress reps and Govt
to separate health care policies by track:
* if ACA mandates right to health care which free market believers don't believe in
then right to life believers should have that mandate that prochoice believers don't believe in
* if states are forced to recognize right to marriage in full and in public and also LGBT expressions
then states should also recognize right to prayer in full including all Christian references without discrrimination

Since you believe as my prolife friends do, who don't want abortion legal at all,
and since our TX Governor is conservative and so is Ted Cruz prolife and against gay marriage,
I think we can make this argument.

Would you like to join in writing and signing petitions on this issue?
To treat political beliefs equally
and not push right to health care without right to life included equally
(or else separate tracks for taxpayers to choose which to fund)
and not push right to marriage without pushing right to prayer
(or else separate school funding so people can choose which track to participate in)

Let me know if you are interested.
As I said before I am just as dedicated as a Constitutionalist
to defending your beliefs from infringement as my own.

We don't have to agree for me to argue
you have a right to equal protections and inclusion
without discrimination by creed. Let me know.

I don't think any of that will matter. We the people are the problem.

 

[emilynghiem]

So now that at least two people agree that human life begins at conception and that it is wrong to end a human life, I'd like to ask this question...

Is it virtuous to do the right thing if someone is making you do it?

ding let me ask you this
If you have free choice to adopt and enforce prolife as policy,
what gives you the right to take that free choice from someone else to decide as you did
without force of law.

I don't have free choice to adopt and enforce prolife as policy. I only have free choice on whether I follow or don't follow our society's laws.

But our society as a whole does have that right? What gives them that right? We live in a shared society with shared outcomes. The best interest of our society is served by an orderly and harmonious people. The best way to achieve that is through a virtuous people. Freedom and liberty cannot exist without virtue and morality. It just isn't possible.

Dear ding Yes you have the right to enforce this equally as the other beliefs in prochoice.
I have suggested doing this by party.

We do have the right to petition and work with Senators and Govs to set up
"state alternatives" under ACA where you can fund and enforce the health care program of your choice.

So let's do this.
Let's petition prolife Senators Congress rep and Govs
to set up separate health care tracks for right to life equally as right to health care.

It's our right as citizens to have equal protection of the laws
for all people regardless of our beliefs. Or else that's discrimination by creed.

I support you in exercising and enforcing your rights.
Please contact Juda Myer who also wants to do this.
she started this prolife group to help rape victims who
want to keep their children and raise them as normal:
http://www.choices4life.org and her number is on there.
her email should be there, too.

What state and what govt or party reps
do you go through? we need to send the petition to them.

 

[emilynghiem]

So now that at least two people agree that human life begins at conception and that it is wrong to end a human life, I'd like to ask this question...

Is it virtuous to do the right thing if someone is making you do it?

I think laws against murder are needed for society in order to maintain civility.

What say you?

But you are right in that laws restrict our freedom so passing them should be done with great trepidation.

I guess that's why the US federal government passes about 40,000 new laws and regulations every year.

No one ever flinches about that, do they?

Sure, same thing I just told Emily. We live in a shared society with shared consequences. If we want order we will have to have laws that promote order, but that does not make its people virtuous as there is no virtue in being forced to do the right thing. Unless our people are virtuous on their own, there is no hope for liberty and freedom in this country. Abortion is just a sign of our disease. It isn't the disease. Our disease is that we are no longer a virtuous people and there will be consequences. History is littered with examples. Our Founding Fathers knew these things. We have forgotten them.

Dear ding as long as you share your convictions with others, that is enough influence to get the ball rolling.
Don't worry, it will catch on.

See my other msg about forming a petition to Governors and Senators starting with TX:
to separate health care by tracks, to respect right to life beliefs equally as right to health care beliefs.

that is one huge step in the right direction.
many people will join in response.

 

[emilynghiem]

If we deal with them on their terms, it leads to genocide.

It's probably going to lead to that anyway, or at least to the next big war. It is called the saeculum cycle. It takes two generations to forget. It is the account of the OT. We are doomed to repeat these cycles.

ding I compare the same way the Catholic church went through the Reformation
and people argued the Catholic authority was sold out to money and not following the laws,
today the US is going through this where the people rise up and argue the govt is following
money and not following the laws.

So we are going through the same Reformation through natural laws and not the govt acting as middle man,
as similar to when the Reformation put the focus on scriptural laws and not the church acting as middle man.

Yeah, no. There is a great deal of misunderstanding about the reformation. I'm not going to get into it, but I will say, that if Luther had seen what came of it all, he probably would have wished he had done things differently. I know people believe that money is at the root of all evil, but it is really pride that is. Furthermore, the cosmic battle between good and evil is being fought between free enterprise and socialism and free enterprise is losing. May God help us all. I have no doubt that we will all experience a major societal upheaval in our time. The only question is when and what will it be that triggers it.

Dear ding I think this right to life right to health care issue, and right to prayer right to marriage issue,
is enough to trigger a movement among the states and governors.

I have prolife friends ready to petition our Congress reps and Govt
to separate health care policies by track:
* if ACA mandates right to health care which free market believers don't believe in
then right to life believers should have that mandate that prochoice believers don't believe in
* if states are forced to recognize right to marriage in full and in public and also LGBT expressions
then states should also recognize right to prayer in full including all Christian references without discrrimination

Since you believe as my prolife friends do, who don't want abortion legal at all,
and since our TX Governor is conservative and so is Ted Cruz prolife and against gay marriage,
I think we can make this argument.

Would you like to join in writing and signing petitions on this issue?
To treat political beliefs equally
and not push right to health care without right to life included equally
(or else separate tracks for taxpayers to choose which to fund)
and not push right to marriage without pushing right to prayer
(or else separate school funding so people can choose which track to participate in)

Let me know if you are interested.
As I said before I am just as dedicated as a Constitutionalist
to defending your beliefs from infringement as my own.

We don't have to agree for me to argue
you have a right to equal protections and inclusion
without discrimination by creed. Let me know.

I don't think any of that will matter. We the people are the problem.

^ you just answered your own question ^
If we don't write out and defend our own beliefs,
of course no one else will. That is the problem, you are right.
so let's change that. let's set an example by teaming up
and demanding both parties fund their own right to health
care coops and right to life tracks under ACA so taxpayers
have a choice to fund free choice or free market.

Thank you, this proves what you are saying. exactly.
we are beaten into submission until we give up.
So let's keep pushing and make a difference.

all it takes is one Rosa Parks, one letter ding
she was tired too. just wanted to sit down.
and people used that as bait for the Civil Rights movement.

so let's write one letter for you and my friend Juda.
and that's it. people have to respond or they
are part of the problem. so it has to be answered
one way or another. it will change things and get
the ball rolling. just by asking, we shall receive an answer.

 

[ding]

So now that at least two people agree that human life begins at conception and that it is wrong to end a human life, I'd like to ask this question...

Is it virtuous to do the right thing if someone is making you do it?

I think laws against murder are needed for society in order to maintain civility.

What say you?

But you are right in that laws restrict our freedom so passing them should be done with great trepidation.

I guess that's why the US federal government passes about 40,000 new laws and regulations every year.

No one ever flinches about that, do they?

Sure, same thing I just told Emily. We live in a shared society with shared consequences. If we want order we will have to have laws that promote order, but that does not make its people virtuous as there is no virtue in being forced to do the right thing. Unless our people are virtuous on their own, there is no hope for liberty and freedom in this country. Abortion is just a sign of our disease. It isn't the disease. Our disease is that we are no longer a virtuous people and there will be consequences. History is littered with examples. Our Founding Fathers knew these things. We have forgotten them.

Dear ding as long as you share your convictions with others, that is enough influence to get the ball rolling.
Don't worry, it will catch on.

See my other msg about forming a petition to Governors and Senators starting with TX:
to separate health care by tracks, to respect right to life beliefs equally as right to health care beliefs.

that is one huge step in the right direction.
many people will join in response.

I don't plan on holding my breath. I've studied too much history for that, but I do wish you all the luck in the world.

 

[emilynghiem]

So now that at least two people agree that human life begins at conception and that it is wrong to end a human life, I'd like to ask this question...

Is it virtuous to do the right thing if someone is making you do it?

I think laws against murder are needed for society in order to maintain civility.

What say you?

But you are right in that laws restrict our freedom so passing them should be done with great trepidation.

I guess that's why the US federal government passes about 40,000 new laws and regulations every year.

No one ever flinches about that, do they?

Sure, same thing I just told Emily. We live in a shared society with shared consequences. If we want order we will have to have laws that promote order, but that does not make its people virtuous as there is no virtue in being forced to do the right thing. Unless our people are virtuous on their own, there is no hope for liberty and freedom in this country. Abortion is just a sign of our disease. It isn't the disease. Our disease is that we are no longer a virtuous people and there will be consequences. History is littered with examples. Our Founding Fathers knew these things. We have forgotten them.

Dear ding as long as you share your convictions with others, that is enough influence to get the ball rolling.
Don't worry, it will catch on.

See my other msg about forming a petition to Governors and Senators starting with TX:
to separate health care by tracks, to respect right to life beliefs equally as right to health care beliefs.

that is one huge step in the right direction.
many people will join in response.

I don't plan on holding my breath. I've studied too much history for that, but I do wish you all the luck in the world.

You are funny ding it's going to happen sooner or later.
I say sooner. There were other people besides Rosa Parks
that cases were made about. But hers was the one remembered
in the media and history. So this is going to spark the keg
one way or another. if not you and me, then someone else.
the conflict is there and just ready to blow the roof off.

 

[ding]

So now that at least two people agree that human life begins at conception and that it is wrong to end a human life, I'd like to ask this question...

Is it virtuous to do the right thing if someone is making you do it?

I think laws against murder are needed for society in order to maintain civility.

What say you?

But you are right in that laws restrict our freedom so passing them should be done with great trepidation.

I guess that's why the US federal government passes about 40,000 new laws and regulations every year.

No one ever flinches about that, do they?

Sure, same thing I just told Emily. We live in a shared society with shared consequences. If we want order we will have to have laws that promote order, but that does not make its people virtuous as there is no virtue in being forced to do the right thing. Unless our people are virtuous on their own, there is no hope for liberty and freedom in this country. Abortion is just a sign of our disease. It isn't the disease. Our disease is that we are no longer a virtuous people and there will be consequences. History is littered with examples. Our Founding Fathers knew these things. We have forgotten them.

Dear ding as long as you share your convictions with others, that is enough influence to get the ball rolling.
Don't worry, it will catch on.

See my other msg about forming a petition to Governors and Senators starting with TX:
to separate health care by tracks, to respect right to life beliefs equally as right to health care beliefs.

that is one huge step in the right direction.
many people will join in response.

I don't plan on holding my breath. I've studied too much history for that, but I do wish you all the luck in the world.

You are funny ding it's going to happen sooner or later.
I say sooner. There were other people besides Rosa Parks
that cases were made about. But hers was the one remembered
in the media and history. So this is going to spark the keg
one way or another. if not you and me, then someone else.
the conflict is there and just ready to blow the roof off.

Have you ever heard of the book, "The 4th Turning?" Have you ever read Alexander Shafarevich's Harvard Address? Because you are thinking linearly instead of cyclically. Now neither of those two mentions what I am discussing but anyone who is awake will come to the same conclusion. A people who have no virtue will not keep their liberty or freedom for long. Our Founding Fathers knew this. I don't expect you to take my word for it, but when it does happen, I hope you will think of me.

 

[emilynghiem]

I think laws against murder are needed for society in order to maintain civility.

What say you?

But you are right in that laws restrict our freedom so passing them should be done with great trepidation.

I guess that's why the US federal government passes about 40,000 new laws and regulations every year.

No one ever flinches about that, do they?

Sure, same thing I just told Emily. We live in a shared society with shared consequences. If we want order we will have to have laws that promote order, but that does not make its people virtuous as there is no virtue in being forced to do the right thing. Unless our people are virtuous on their own, there is no hope for liberty and freedom in this country. Abortion is just a sign of our disease. It isn't the disease. Our disease is that we are no longer a virtuous people and there will be consequences. History is littered with examples. Our Founding Fathers knew these things. We have forgotten them.

Dear ding as long as you share your convictions with others, that is enough influence to get the ball rolling.
Don't worry, it will catch on.

See my other msg about forming a petition to Governors and Senators starting with TX:
to separate health care by tracks, to respect right to life beliefs equally as right to health care beliefs.

that is one huge step in the right direction.
many people will join in response.

I don't plan on holding my breath. I've studied too much history for that, but I do wish you all the luck in the world.

You are funny ding it's going to happen sooner or later.
I say sooner. There were other people besides Rosa Parks
that cases were made about. But hers was the one remembered
in the media and history. So this is going to spark the keg
one way or another. if not you and me, then someone else.
the conflict is there and just ready to blow the roof off.

Have you ever heard of the book, "The 4th Turning?" Have you ever read Alexander Shafarevich's Harvard Address? Because you are thinking linearly instead of cyclically. Now neither of those two mentions what I am discussing but anyone who is awake will come to the same conclusion. A people who have no virtue will not keep their liberty or freedom for long. Our Founding Fathers knew this. I don't expect you to take my word for it, but when it does happen, I hope you will think of me.

Dear ding there are both going on.
There are sine waves that go up and down repeating, and never change their patterns

There are also CONVERGING functions in in calculus that fluctuate,
at exponential rates, toward a target value.

That target value is peace and justice, where truth sets us free from conflict.

If you look at the human grief process,
the stages PROGRESS to a resolution.

Humanity is more like that.
Yes we fluctuate up and down while we are GRIEVING.
we go through denial, depression, anger bargaining

but that the end we reach RESOLUTION and peace.
Everyone's curve is converging toward PEACE.

The Bible points to everlasting peace at the end
when we all receive Justice or Jesus.

So we are in process of accelerating toward achieving
Justice and Peace. Been going on for centuries.
And the baby is due for birthing.

 

[ding]

Sure, same thing I just told Emily. We live in a shared society with shared consequences. If we want order we will have to have laws that promote order, but that does not make its people virtuous as there is no virtue in being forced to do the right thing. Unless our people are virtuous on their own, there is no hope for liberty and freedom in this country. Abortion is just a sign of our disease. It isn't the disease. Our disease is that we are no longer a virtuous people and there will be consequences. History is littered with examples. Our Founding Fathers knew these things. We have forgotten them.

Dear ding as long as you share your convictions with others, that is enough influence to get the ball rolling.
Don't worry, it will catch on.

See my other msg about forming a petition to Governors and Senators starting with TX:
to separate health care by tracks, to respect right to life beliefs equally as right to health care beliefs.

that is one huge step in the right direction.
many people will join in response.

I don't plan on holding my breath. I've studied too much history for that, but I do wish you all the luck in the world.

You are funny ding it's going to happen sooner or later.
I say sooner. There were other people besides Rosa Parks
that cases were made about. But hers was the one remembered
in the media and history. So this is going to spark the keg
one way or another. if not you and me, then someone else.
the conflict is there and just ready to blow the roof off.

Have you ever heard of the book, "The 4th Turning?" Have you ever read Alexander Shafarevich's Harvard Address? Because you are thinking linearly instead of cyclically. Now neither of those two mentions what I am discussing but anyone who is awake will come to the same conclusion. A people who have no virtue will not keep their liberty or freedom for long. Our Founding Fathers knew this. I don't expect you to take my word for it, but when it does happen, I hope you will think of me.

Dear ding there are both going on.
There are sine waves that go up and down repeating, and never change their patterns

There are also CONVERGING functions in in calculus that fluctuate,
at exponential rates, toward a target value.

That target value is peace and justice, where truth sets us free from conflict.

If you look at the human grief process,
the stages PROGRESS to a resolution.

Humanity is more like that.
Yes we fluctuate up and down while we are GRIEVING.
we go through denial, depression, anger bargaining

but that the end we reach RESOLUTION and peace.
Everyone's curve is converging toward PEACE.

The Bible points to everlasting peace at the end
when we all receive Justice or Jesus.

So we are in process of accelerating toward achieving
Justice and Peace. Been going on for centuries.
And the baby is due for birthing.

lol, we are in the winter of the saeculum cycle. The last one was the Depression through WWII. The one before that was the Civil War and the one before that was the Revolutionary War. Over the course of a long human life every human who has walked on this planet can expect to experience one major societal upheaval. It is quite possible that the next one will make WWII look like a regional conflict.

 

[emilynghiem]

Dear ding as long as you share your convictions with others, that is enough influence to get the ball rolling.
Don't worry, it will catch on.

See my other msg about forming a petition to Governors and Senators starting with TX:
to separate health care by tracks, to respect right to life beliefs equally as right to health care beliefs.

that is one huge step in the right direction.
many people will join in response.

I don't plan on holding my breath. I've studied too much history for that, but I do wish you all the luck in the world.

You are funny ding it's going to happen sooner or later.
I say sooner. There were other people besides Rosa Parks
that cases were made about. But hers was the one remembered
in the media and history. So this is going to spark the keg
one way or another. if not you and me, then someone else.
the conflict is there and just ready to blow the roof off.

Have you ever heard of the book, "The 4th Turning?" Have you ever read Alexander Shafarevich's Harvard Address? Because you are thinking linearly instead of cyclically. Now neither of those two mentions what I am discussing but anyone who is awake will come to the same conclusion. A people who have no virtue will not keep their liberty or freedom for long. Our Founding Fathers knew this. I don't expect you to take my word for it, but when it does happen, I hope you will think of me.

Dear ding there are both going on.
There are sine waves that go up and down repeating, and never change their patterns

There are also CONVERGING functions in in calculus that fluctuate,
at exponential rates, toward a target value.

That target value is peace and justice, where truth sets us free from conflict.

If you look at the human grief process,
the stages PROGRESS to a resolution.

Humanity is more like that.
Yes we fluctuate up and down while we are GRIEVING.
we go through denial, depression, anger bargaining

but that the end we reach RESOLUTION and peace.
Everyone's curve is converging toward PEACE.

The Bible points to everlasting peace at the end
when we all receive Justice or Jesus.

So we are in process of accelerating toward achieving
Justice and Peace. Been going on for centuries.
And the baby is due for birthing.

lol, we are in the winter of the saeculum cycle. The last one was the Depression through WWII. The one before that was the Civil War and the one before that was the Revolutionary War. Over the course of a long human life every human who has walked on this planet can expect to experience one major societal upheaval. It is quite possible that the next one will make WWII look like a regional conflict.

Well, ding let us prepare by helping those who see the points
where we need to align, go ahead and connect those dots.

If we know the storm is coming, we need to prepare in advance.
If we know there's a drought or a flood, we prepare accordingly.

We have plenty to do to make sure the right people are
connected up, so when the strain hits, the safety net
and foundation is stable in place. Thank you and I
look forward to working in the areas that make the most impact.

 

[Votto]

No. I don't believe I said that. You are confusing conscience with consciousness. Look, I agree with you, we are granted inalienable rights for no other reason than we are God's creatures, but in dealing with secularists I find it more effective to deal with them on their terms.

If we deal with them on their terms, it leads to genocide.

It's probably going to lead to that anyway, or at least to the next big war. It is called the saeculum cycle. It takes two generations to forget. It is the account of the OT. We are doomed to repeat these cycles.

ding I compare the same way the Catholic church went through the Reformation
and people argued the Catholic authority was sold out to money and not following the laws,
today the US is going through this where the people rise up and argue the govt is following
money and not following the laws.

So we are going through the same Reformation through natural laws and not the govt acting as middle man,
as similar to when the Reformation put the focus on scriptural laws and not the church acting as middle man.

Yeah, no. There is a great deal of misunderstanding about the reformation. I'm not going to get into it, but I will say, that if Luther had seen what came of it all, he probably would have wished he had done things differently. I know people believe that money is at the root of all evil, but it is really pride that is. Furthermore, the cosmic battle between good and evil is being fought between free enterprise and socialism and free enterprise is losing. May God help us all. I have no doubt that we will all experience a major societal upheaval in our time. The only question is when and what will it be that triggers it.

Dear ding I think this right to life right to health care issue, and right to prayer right to marriage issue,
is enough to trigger a movement among the states and governors.

I have prolife friends ready to petition our Congress reps and Govt
to separate health care policies by track:
* if ACA mandates right to health care which free market believers don't believe in
then right to life believers should have that mandate that prochoice believers don't believe in
* if states are forced to recognize right to marriage in full and in public and also LGBT expressions
then states should also recognize right to prayer in full including all Christian references without discrrimination

Since you believe as my prolife friends do, who don't want abortion legal at all,
and since our TX Governor is conservative and so is Ted Cruz prolife and against gay marriage,
I think we can make this argument.

Would you like to join in writing and signing petitions on this issue?
To treat political beliefs equally
and not push right to health care without right to life included equally
(or else separate tracks for taxpayers to choose which to fund)
and not push right to marriage without pushing right to prayer
(or else separate school funding so people can choose which track to participate in)

Let me know if you are interested.
As I said before I am just as dedicated as a Constitutionalist
to defending your beliefs from infringement as my own.

We don't have to agree for me to argue
you have a right to equal protections and inclusion
without discrimination by creed. Let me know.

The ACA was sold to the country with the understanding that it would not fund abortions.

Naturally, once Dims got the thing passed they will now tack it on, probably by Executive Order by Hillary.

It's called being lied to.

 

[Votto]

So now that at least two people agree that human life begins at conception and that it is wrong to end a human life, I'd like to ask this question...

Is it virtuous to do the right thing if someone is making you do it?

I think laws against murder are needed for society in order to maintain civility.

What say you?

But you are right in that laws restrict our freedom so passing them should be done with great trepidation.

I guess that's why the US federal government passes about 40,000 new laws and regulations every year.

No one ever flinches about that, do they?

Sure, same thing I just told Emily. We live in a shared society with shared consequences. If we want order we will have to have laws that promote order, but that does not make its people virtuous as there is no virtue in being forced to do the right thing. Unless our people are virtuous on their own, there is no hope for liberty and freedom in this country. Abortion is just a sign of our disease. It isn't the disease. Our disease is that we are no longer a virtuous people and there will be consequences. History is littered with examples. Our Founding Fathers knew these things. We have forgotten them.

Yes and no. Our morality is formed by figures of authority. For example, your parents, your teachers, your peers, your pastor, and the state all play a part. These all contribute to our morality in terms of what is acceptable and what is not.

For example, when slavery was legal, it was seen as not being ideal but OK, but after centuries of being outlawed everyone now considers it immoral

Abortion is no different. Before Roe vs. Wade the consensus was that abortion was immoral, but after the decision the consensus is that it is not ideal, but it is OK.

It is hard to admit that we are mere lemmings, but the laws on the books definitely shape our morality, especially those who revere the state more than the church.

 

[ding]

If we deal with them on their terms, it leads to genocide.

It's probably going to lead to that anyway, or at least to the next big war. It is called the saeculum cycle. It takes two generations to forget. It is the account of the OT. We are doomed to repeat these cycles.

ding I compare the same way the Catholic church went through the Reformation
and people argued the Catholic authority was sold out to money and not following the laws,
today the US is going through this where the people rise up and argue the govt is following
money and not following the laws.

So we are going through the same Reformation through natural laws and not the govt acting as middle man,
as similar to when the Reformation put the focus on scriptural laws and not the church acting as middle man.

Yeah, no. There is a great deal of misunderstanding about the reformation. I'm not going to get into it, but I will say, that if Luther had seen what came of it all, he probably would have wished he had done things differently. I know people believe that money is at the root of all evil, but it is really pride that is. Furthermore, the cosmic battle between good and evil is being fought between free enterprise and socialism and free enterprise is losing. May God help us all. I have no doubt that we will all experience a major societal upheaval in our time. The only question is when and what will it be that triggers it.

Dear ding I think this right to life right to health care issue, and right to prayer right to marriage issue,
is enough to trigger a movement among the states and governors.

I have prolife friends ready to petition our Congress reps and Govt
to separate health care policies by track:
* if ACA mandates right to health care which free market believers don't believe in
then right to life believers should have that mandate that prochoice believers don't believe in
* if states are forced to recognize right to marriage in full and in public and also LGBT expressions
then states should also recognize right to prayer in full including all Christian references without discrrimination

Since you believe as my prolife friends do, who don't want abortion legal at all,
and since our TX Governor is conservative and so is Ted Cruz prolife and against gay marriage,
I think we can make this argument.

Would you like to join in writing and signing petitions on this issue?
To treat political beliefs equally
and not push right to health care without right to life included equally
(or else separate tracks for taxpayers to choose which to fund)
and not push right to marriage without pushing right to prayer
(or else separate school funding so people can choose which track to participate in)

Let me know if you are interested.
As I said before I am just as dedicated as a Constitutionalist
to defending your beliefs from infringement as my own.

We don't have to agree for me to argue
you have a right to equal protections and inclusion
without discrimination by creed. Let me know.

The ACA was sold to the country with the understanding that it would not fund abortions.

Naturally, once Dims got the thing passed they will now tack it on, probably by Executive Order by Hillary.

It's called being lied to.

Don't forget that it was designed to fail so they could trojan horse in a single payer system with the single payer being the government, lol. You've just got to admire the gall at being so blatantly deceitful.

 

[ding]

So now that at least two people agree that human life begins at conception and that it is wrong to end a human life, I'd like to ask this question...

Is it virtuous to do the right thing if someone is making you do it?

I think laws against murder are needed for society in order to maintain civility.

What say you?

But you are right in that laws restrict our freedom so passing them should be done with great trepidation.

I guess that's why the US federal government passes about 40,000 new laws and regulations every year.

No one ever flinches about that, do they?

Sure, same thing I just told Emily. We live in a shared society with shared consequences. If we want order we will have to have laws that promote order, but that does not make its people virtuous as there is no virtue in being forced to do the right thing. Unless our people are virtuous on their own, there is no hope for liberty and freedom in this country. Abortion is just a sign of our disease. It isn't the disease. Our disease is that we are no longer a virtuous people and there will be consequences. History is littered with examples. Our Founding Fathers knew these things. We have forgotten them.

Yes and no. Our morality is formed by figures of authority. For example, your parents, your teachers, your peers, your pastor, and the state all play a part. These all contribute to our morality in terms of what is acceptable and what is not.

For example, when slavery was legal, it was seen as not being ideal but OK, but after centuries of being outlawed everyone now considers it immoral

Abortion is no different. Before Roe vs. Wade the consensus was that abortion was immoral, but after the decision the consensus is that it is not ideal, but it is OK.

It is hard to admit that we are mere lemmings, but the laws on the books definitely shape our morality, especially those who revere the state more than the church.

Ahhh, the allure of moral relativity. No thanks.