Norman
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How does an individual LOSE $1 Billion in a year?
- Thread starter nat4900
- Start date
Dr Grump
Platinum Member
You are an intentional liar and dishonest, go apologize to your mother.
So the GoP don't control the house and senate.
We are discussing your intentional dishonesty stay on topic.
Recent Sydney Morning Herald poll. 80,000+ respondents - Who would make a better president? Hillary 87%. Trumplestilskin 13%.
Dr Grump
Platinum Member
All people mimize taxes... holy shit, are liberals so completely ignorant that even after everyone has repeated this time and time again... and even though they do it themselves... they still just refuse to get it?
True, I would like myself to have to pay NO taxes......You think that Trump U. can offer that course to ALL Americans???
Over 40% of Americans pay no federal income tax.
You are an idiot.
And you wonder why your public school system is failing and your roads are in need of repair.
Maryland Patriot
Gold Member
- Jun 10, 2015
- 9,966
- 1,394
- 290
evidently much better at it than I am too.Obviously, youre ignorant of tax law and liability. You'll also note that the nyt defrauded the IRS out of millions due to some shuck and jive accounting.
The New York Times Paid No Taxes in 2014
The New York Times Paid No Taxes in 2014 - Breitbart
Did the NYT LOSE a billion dollars in 2014???
Wooooosh, right over your ignorant noodle. We get it toady, you hate Trump....you really don't think you're going to change anyone's minds do you? That goes for all you leftists. The anti Trump insanity on this forum has went from comical to just sad.
Tell us how great a businessman Trump is.
Obviously better than you could ever be, Dumb Deer.
Maryland Patriot
Gold Member
- Jun 10, 2015
- 9,966
- 1,394
- 290
I think the clintons would be a better equal to Al Capone than Donald Trump.evidently much better at it than I am too.
Lots of people idolized Al Capone also.....
besides, Im not sure Al Capone was idolized at that time because of his business endevours as much as he was romanticized for making millions during that period of time. There was excitement, riches, everything, you name it.
Pop23
Gold Member
Obamas economy added $50 trillion in eight yearsWe are not talking about a country here (although there are some whose GDP is just about $1 billion), but we are talking about an individual who is running for president on the mantra of "the best businessman on the planet.....ever......trust him, believe in him....he's the greatest, etc."
Yes, our tax system is seriously flawed in allowing someone, like Trump, to not only list losses of $916 million in ONE single year (and the repercussions that such a loss may have also caused on others)....BUT to turn around and be exempt from any tax burden for 18 subsequent years...........AND, the clincher, is to carry on in your lifestyle after such a loss, to STILL be living in a penthouse, have a private plane and still be able to walk into most banks and get additional risky loans.
I know that many of us have written Trump's eulogy over many other discovered flaws in Trump's character and history, but surely the average voter must place aside any hatred of Clinton and REJECT this charlatan who could seriously damage not only our economy, but who is thin-skinned enough to even risk our world standing.
Obama and his budget loses that much about every couple hours!
In debt! WAY TO GO!
Vigilante
Diamond Member
- Banned
- #149
On Trump and Taxes
Oh my, the breathless NYT reports, after aiding and abetting breaking the law by releasing part of a NY state tax return that was stolen (if it's a true copy) from Trump.
The return showed a roughly $900 million net loss one year.
This, the Times reports, means that Trump may not have paid any federal (or state) taxes for many years.
To which I say: So what?
Let me remind you that the way you generate a net operating loss (NOL) is by losing money. In this case (if the return is factual) Trump lost a lot of money. The tax code allows you to reduce your tax liability when you lose money until your operating income reaches zero (and I remind you, the last 10 to 30 grand of it has already reached a zero payment liability, so you in fact "throw away" that amount worth of tax "benefit" right up front) but you cannot get a refund on previous taxes paid as you accumulated that capital when you take a loss. This is similar but not identical to capital loss treatment.
What happens with a capital loss is that the loss is rolled forward and you may take up to $3,000 a year against future income until it is exhausted, and you may also offset it dollar-for-dollar against future profits (capital gains.) A NOL also can used to "look back" for up to 3 years; which way you wish to go with that will depend on both the tax rates involved and your expected future plans (if the business is shut down then the choice is obvious, but if not it's quite a bit more complex.)
There's nothing wrong with this. You lost actual money to generate the NOL in the first place.
That ability to use it to offset gains isn't "ripping off the government" or "ripping off poor people" since the loss actually happened and in fact you get screwed when you take a NOL and use it to offset future profits because you are forced to consume that loss with inflated dollars in future years, but you cannot adjust the NOL for inflation!
I have personally had both NOL and capital losses in the past and so have millions of others. There's not only nothing wrong with it it is in fact only a partial recapture against a real loss you already suffered.
Let's say that I make a bad investment and lose $500,000. My income that year from investments was $100,000, but I lost half a million in capital. It's gone -- I really lost it -- and the law says that the loss must be crystallized, not on paper, for it to count (in other words I had to have closed the position.)
Ok, so I have a NET -$400,000 from investments this year. I can only take $3,000 of that against my ordinary income; that is, if I had $50,000 worth of W2 income (from a job) the law says I cannot use the $400,000 loss to reduce the $50,000 to zero -- only to $47,000. I can continue to take that $3,000 (yes, it's that tiny!) every year forever until it's consumed, but if I have an investment gain in future years the remainder of the NOL carries forward and is an offset on that gain dollar-for-dollar until it is "used up."
Anyone who invests has, at some time, probably had one of those capital losses. If you have ever run a business and had a losing year you have had NOLs. There is nothing evil, wrong, duplicitous or anything of the sort about taking and using them in future years as they only are usable when you regain, through your hard work, the capital you previously lost and at the time you previously gained it in the first place you already paid taxes on it!
To suggest otherwise or that someone, such as Trump, is evil for having one and thus paying no tax in future years until it was/is consumed is outrageous. Such a suggestion is equivalent to demanding that someone pay taxes on something that has been lost or stolen from them and any politician or media outlet that implies or states same ought to be run out of town on a rail.
Why? Because it is equivalent to demanding "heads I win, tails you lose". To demand that someone pay taxes when they make money but when they lose money they cannot offset that loss against future gains means that you're now obligated to pay when you win and also in effect you are obligated to pay when you lose (irrespective of the reason) as well, because an actual net operating loss destroys part of your capital base!
Trump, if this return is accurate, did what every single company and individual taxpayer with investments does when there is a net loss. There is not only nothing wrong with it the tax code already penalizes you for losses because you cannot offset them dollar-for-dollar against current wage income; you can only take the $3,000/year for capital losses and zero for business net operating losses. Since both losses are in fact destroyed capital (from your point of view) you should be able to deduct them fully against AGI, but that's not how the law works -- you can only deduct them against future business or investment (e.g. net operating) gains.
That is not an abuse of the tax code. What is an abuse of the tax code is to "donate" money to a "charity" (your own family foundation), radically reducing your income (and thus tax liability) that you control and which then turns around and spends nearly none of the donated funds on actual charitable services; rather, nearly all of those funds are used to pay salaries and travel (effectively living expenses and high-on-the-hog living expenses at that!) for your family members and their friends. That is legal but it's slimy as hell and that is what the Clintons have in fact done since leaving the White House.
The NY Times is a hack outfit -- not only did they run a story predicated on a criminal act they are trying to spin something that is not only lawful but every person who either runs a small business or invests does as a matter of course and is perfectly ethical, legal and in fact already occurs under mandated-by-law disadvantage that accrues to someone who has this happen, including Trump, in the tax code!
On Trump and Taxes
Oh my, the breathless NYT reports, after aiding and abetting breaking the law by releasing part of a NY state tax return that was stolen (if it's a true copy) from Trump.
The return showed a roughly $900 million net loss one year.
This, the Times reports, means that Trump may not have paid any federal (or state) taxes for many years.
To which I say: So what?
Let me remind you that the way you generate a net operating loss (NOL) is by losing money. In this case (if the return is factual) Trump lost a lot of money. The tax code allows you to reduce your tax liability when you lose money until your operating income reaches zero (and I remind you, the last 10 to 30 grand of it has already reached a zero payment liability, so you in fact "throw away" that amount worth of tax "benefit" right up front) but you cannot get a refund on previous taxes paid as you accumulated that capital when you take a loss. This is similar but not identical to capital loss treatment.
What happens with a capital loss is that the loss is rolled forward and you may take up to $3,000 a year against future income until it is exhausted, and you may also offset it dollar-for-dollar against future profits (capital gains.) A NOL also can used to "look back" for up to 3 years; which way you wish to go with that will depend on both the tax rates involved and your expected future plans (if the business is shut down then the choice is obvious, but if not it's quite a bit more complex.)
There's nothing wrong with this. You lost actual money to generate the NOL in the first place.
That ability to use it to offset gains isn't "ripping off the government" or "ripping off poor people" since the loss actually happened and in fact you get screwed when you take a NOL and use it to offset future profits because you are forced to consume that loss with inflated dollars in future years, but you cannot adjust the NOL for inflation!
I have personally had both NOL and capital losses in the past and so have millions of others. There's not only nothing wrong with it it is in fact only a partial recapture against a real loss you already suffered.
Let's say that I make a bad investment and lose $500,000. My income that year from investments was $100,000, but I lost half a million in capital. It's gone -- I really lost it -- and the law says that the loss must be crystallized, not on paper, for it to count (in other words I had to have closed the position.)
Ok, so I have a NET -$400,000 from investments this year. I can only take $3,000 of that against my ordinary income; that is, if I had $50,000 worth of W2 income (from a job) the law says I cannot use the $400,000 loss to reduce the $50,000 to zero -- only to $47,000. I can continue to take that $3,000 (yes, it's that tiny!) every year forever until it's consumed, but if I have an investment gain in future years the remainder of the NOL carries forward and is an offset on that gain dollar-for-dollar until it is "used up."
Anyone who invests has, at some time, probably had one of those capital losses. If you have ever run a business and had a losing year you have had NOLs. There is nothing evil, wrong, duplicitous or anything of the sort about taking and using them in future years as they only are usable when you regain, through your hard work, the capital you previously lost and at the time you previously gained it in the first place you already paid taxes on it!
To suggest otherwise or that someone, such as Trump, is evil for having one and thus paying no tax in future years until it was/is consumed is outrageous. Such a suggestion is equivalent to demanding that someone pay taxes on something that has been lost or stolen from them and any politician or media outlet that implies or states same ought to be run out of town on a rail.
Why? Because it is equivalent to demanding "heads I win, tails you lose". To demand that someone pay taxes when they make money but when they lose money they cannot offset that loss against future gains means that you're now obligated to pay when you win and also in effect you are obligated to pay when you lose (irrespective of the reason) as well, because an actual net operating loss destroys part of your capital base!
Trump, if this return is accurate, did what every single company and individual taxpayer with investments does when there is a net loss. There is not only nothing wrong with it the tax code already penalizes you for losses because you cannot offset them dollar-for-dollar against current wage income; you can only take the $3,000/year for capital losses and zero for business net operating losses. Since both losses are in fact destroyed capital (from your point of view) you should be able to deduct them fully against AGI, but that's not how the law works -- you can only deduct them against future business or investment (e.g. net operating) gains.
That is not an abuse of the tax code. What is an abuse of the tax code is to "donate" money to a "charity" (your own family foundation), radically reducing your income (and thus tax liability) that you control and which then turns around and spends nearly none of the donated funds on actual charitable services; rather, nearly all of those funds are used to pay salaries and travel (effectively living expenses and high-on-the-hog living expenses at that!) for your family members and their friends. That is legal but it's slimy as hell and that is what the Clintons have in fact done since leaving the White House.
The NY Times is a hack outfit -- not only did they run a story predicated on a criminal act they are trying to spin something that is not only lawful but every person who either runs a small business or invests does as a matter of course and is perfectly ethical, legal and in fact already occurs under mandated-by-law disadvantage that accrues to someone who has this happen, including Trump, in the tax code!
On Trump and Taxes
BluesLegend
Diamond Member
You are an intentional liar and dishonest, go apologize to your mother.
So the GoP don't control the house and senate.
We are discussing your intentional dishonesty stay on topic.
Recent Sydney Morning Herald poll. 80,000+ respondents - Who would make a better president? Hillary 87%. Trumplestilskin 13%.
Recent Blueslegend poll who are the dumbest people on the planet? 100% Hillary and Hillary voters.
320 Years of History
Gold Member
how do the clinton make a billion dollars a year.
They don't. You can confirm that by checking their tax returns.
So Comrade Trump is flying around in his private jet, using tax payer funded airports, riding on tax payer funded roads, all the while paying NO TAXES. And the sociopath doesn't see anything wrong with it, as is true of his cult members also.
You are an intentional liar and dishonest, go apologize to your mother.
So the GoP don't control the house and senate.
We are discussing your intentional dishonesty stay on topic.
Recent Sydney Morning Herald poll. 80,000+ respondents - Who would make a better president? Hillary 87%. Trumplestilskin 13%.
Recent Blueslegend poll who are the dumbest people on the planet? 100% Hillary and Hillary voters.
Everyone knows who is leading with the low information, no college population. It is Comrade Trump. Please stop quoting Hack web sites and watch something other than FOX news.
nat4900
Diamond Member
- Mar 3, 2015
- 42,021
- 5,965
- 1,870
- Thread starter
- Banned
- #154
So Comrade Trump is flying around in his private jet, using tax payer funded airports, riding on tax payer funded roads, all the while paying NO TAXES. And the sociopath doesn't see anything wrong with it, as is true of his cult members also.
.......AND,his puppets like Giuliani and Christie cal Trump a "genius"????
rightwinger
Award Winning USMB Paid Messageboard Poster
- Aug 4, 2009
- 286,706
- 163,757
- 2,615
Easy PeasyUnfunded liabilities due to social security over the next 50 years
Easy fix....non issue
Easy fix?
Bwahahaha... that's not what insurance scientist say. It's called a retirement bomb.
It's amazing that you don't find any trouble with the fact that so much of what we don't have has been promised. But easy fix indeed, enslave the kids to pay for it all! That's the Rightwinger way!
Raise retirement age
Increase deduction threshold
Increase payments a half percent
Dude, the liabilities don't disappear by increasing retirement age or by increasing deductions... you are clueless!
The only solution is either to cut social security or enslave the kids. We know you prefer the latter. However, the fact that you have no problem with this arrangement is what is troublesome.
The problem with medicare and medicaid is even better. Enslave the kids or let sick people die? Do you still think they have done a good job?
Yes they do because you have 50 years to pay them off
Yes, they need to pay a lot of taxes because these spendaholic politicians have decided to promise idiot regressive liberals free stuff that doesn't even exist. The young have to be enslaved to create it for you.
I don't think you are getting it, it's obvious you have no problem that the children will have to pay for all your crazy spending. But oh... you care so much about global warming!
What a bunch of morons.
Social Security is not "free stuff"
Workers and their employers pay in their whole working career
rightwinger
Award Winning USMB Paid Messageboard Poster
- Aug 4, 2009
- 286,706
- 163,757
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Obamas economy added $50 trillion in eight yearsWe are not talking about a country here (although there are some whose GDP is just about $1 billion), but we are talking about an individual who is running for president on the mantra of "the best businessman on the planet.....ever......trust him, believe in him....he's the greatest, etc."
Yes, our tax system is seriously flawed in allowing someone, like Trump, to not only list losses of $916 million in ONE single year (and the repercussions that such a loss may have also caused on others)....BUT to turn around and be exempt from any tax burden for 18 subsequent years...........AND, the clincher, is to carry on in your lifestyle after such a loss, to STILL be living in a penthouse, have a private plane and still be able to walk into most banks and get additional risky loans.
I know that many of us have written Trump's eulogy over many other discovered flaws in Trump's character and history, but surely the average voter must place aside any hatred of Clinton and REJECT this charlatan who could seriously damage not only our economy, but who is thin-skinned enough to even risk our world standing.
Obama and his budget loses that much about every couple hours!
In debt! WAY TO GO!
Far from debt....$50 trillion in added wealth with $8 trillion in debt
NYcarbineer
Diamond Member
Obama lost a trillion a yr.......or better,,,,,,,,of other peoples money
No he didn't, but if that's your argument, why are you supporting Trump, a man with penchant for losing money, bankruptcies, etc.?
Hutch Starskey
Diamond Member
- Mar 24, 2015
- 35,437
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Self made doesn't mean he didn't have any help. It means he made it himself instead of inheriting the money. That's the context here.
You do know that his father gave him start up cash and later he inherited his father's business. He didn't have to build much. His name and father's connections made that simple.
BluesLegend
Diamond Member
You are an intentional liar and dishonest, go apologize to your mother.
So the GoP don't control the house and senate.
We are discussing your intentional dishonesty stay on topic.
Recent Sydney Morning Herald poll. 80,000+ respondents - Who would make a better president? Hillary 87%. Trumplestilskin 13%.
Recent Blueslegend poll who are the dumbest people on the planet? 100% Hillary and Hillary voters.
Everyone knows who is leading with the low information, no college population. It is Comrade Trump. Please stop quoting Hack web sites and watch something other than FOX news.
You idiots have been using that narrative for 50 plus years, Dem's smart Rep's dumb when are you morons going to get some new material? I'm 10x smarter than you and most of your hack lib pals. Get on your knees and thank me for even taking the time to acknowledge your existence.
rightwinger
Award Winning USMB Paid Messageboard Poster
- Aug 4, 2009
- 286,706
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Damn people!
I just can't wait for the next debate.......Donald, You got a lotta splain'n to do
I just can't wait for the next debate.......Donald, You got a lotta splain'n to do
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