How should healthcare by paid and whom should be required to pay for it?

[Maple]

So I guess that means, that if it costs 1 trillion dollars and it fails then he will pick up the tab. I knew he was very wealthy but I never dreamed he had the kind of money.

 

[JakeStarkey]

The costs will fall as they have in the ten western industrialized nations who pay 1/2 for their national health care, and have healthier, longer living populations.

And, yes, you are going to pay your share, lucky you.

 

[auditor0007]

Something along the lines of this

- Everyone above a certain age must buy some health insurance, just like everyone who drives a car must buy car insurance.
- People who can afford it pay for insurance.
- A sliding scale subsidized by the government for those who cannot afford care.
- Co-pays for everything. Higher co-pays for more elective treatments.
- Insurers can sell across state lines.
- No for-profit medical insurers. This is what they do in Switzerland. There is often a fundamental conflict between paying out insurance and profit. Some insurers are great. Some insurers are scumbags who will do everything they can to avoid paying a claim. This is true of car insurance, home insurance, hurricane insurance, health insurance, etc. There are many mutual insurers, including State Farm. Cut out shareholders altogether.
- Everyone pays a small tax or premium for catastrophe health re-insurance run by either the government or a private insurer.
- Cap tort awards.
- Reduce patent protection 1 to 5 years.

From what I have seen, the Swiss system parallels ours most closely at a reduced overall cost. The current system in the US brings about two big problems. Those with pre-existing conditions are turned away, but at the same time, insurance companies can't be expected to cover people who refuse to pay until the day they become sick. If we expect insurance companies to cover everyone, then everyone needs to pay for insurance from the get go, not just when they become sick.

And yes, insurance companies should not only be permitted to sell across state lines, but be mandated to sell across state lines. This is where I ran into trouble as I moved from one state to another, I was then denied for a new policy due to pre-existing conditions even though I had insurance for over twenty years. But most people here don't want to pay for me. From my understanding most people here would prefer it if I just die since it is my fault that I no longer have health insurance.

 

[Contumacious]

From my understanding most people here would prefer it if I just die since it is my fault that I no longer have health insurance.

What the people are saying is that problems should not be collectivized nor should the government has the power to force me to be my brother's keepers.


.

 

[chanel]

We already take care of the poor in this country. I don't have a problem with that (exc for the fraud and abuse) What I do have a problem with is paying for my neighbors insurance while his kids get a free ride to college and he drives a nicer car than us. That's why the whole mortgage bailout and cash for clunkers pissed me off. We have many many irresponsible people in this country living beyond their means. And we are rewarding them for that. Our income has been cut in half the past few months. We have lost tons in our kids college funds and 401Ks. But guess what? We have SAVED for a rainy day. And if I lost my job tomorrow we would pay for Cobra. It would be painful but that's our priority.

I am tired of this govt telling us to reward irresponsibility and punish success.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Contumacious is having problems understanding that what he calls "collectivization" is called government by normal people, and, yes, the government, through the collective will of We the People in Congress assembled, do have a right to tax him.

He can explain his theories to the tax auditors when they visit him.

 

[Contumacious]

Contumacious is having problems understanding that what he calls "collectivization" is called government by normal people, and, yes, the government, through the collective will of We the People in Congress assembled, do have a right to tax him.

He can explain his theories to the tax auditors when they visit him.

Yo Vern, why did you escape from Cuba? They say that the Caribbean Paradise has an excellent Hellcare system - Castro will shoot if you disagree.

Go back.

Esther La Vista , dude.


.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Contumacious is having problems understanding that what he calls "collectivization" is called government by normal people, and, yes, the government, through the collective will of We the People in Congress assembled, do have a right to tax him.

He can explain his theories to the tax auditors when they visit him.

Yo Vern, why did you escape from Cuba? They say that in the Caribbean Paradise they have an excellent Hellcare system - Castro will shoot if you disagree.

Go back.

Esther La Vista , dude..

Contumacious, We the People have decided this is so in Congress assembled. As an inhabitant, even if you are not a citizen, you are subject to the law. You have every right to disagree (1st Amendmendt). You have every obligation to obey it (federal and state laws). Look up 'social compact' so that you can figure out why.

 

[Toro]

No co-pay for preventive treatments (annual physicals, mammogram, Pap, prostate, colonoscopy every 10 years).

That's a good idea.

I had my annual a few days ago. I used to go every year. He says I only need to come back every two years. What say you?

 

[Care4all]

what is what insurance companies call a ''wellness visit''? is that a physical?

 

[Contumacious]

Contumacious is having problems understanding that what he calls "collectivization" is called government by normal people, and, yes, the government, through the collective will of We the People in Congress assembled, do have a right to tax him.

He can explain his theories to the tax auditors when they visit him.

Yo Vern, why did you escape from Cuba? They say that in the Caribbean Paradise they have an excellent Hellcare system - Castro will shoot if you disagree.

Go back.

Esther La Vista , dude..

Contumacious, We the People have decided this is so in Congress assembled. As an inhabitant, even if you are not a citizen, you are subject to the law. You have every right to disagree (1st Amendmendt). You have every obligation to obey it (federal and state laws). Look up 'social compact' so that you can figure out why.

Bullshit Vernon, a welfare/warfare state can not tolerate a constitutional republic , they don't mix.

...The Fascist State organizes the nation, but leaves a sufficient margin of liberty to the individual; the latter is deprived of all useless and possibly harmful freedom, but retains what is essential; the deciding power in this question cannot be the individual, but the State alone....


Benito Mussolini


.

 

[chanel]

what is what insurance companies call a ''wellness visit''? is that a physical?

Yes. Children are supposed to get "wellness visits" on a regular basis. These can include immunizations. And older kids need physicals for sports.

My insurance does not pay for these. But families that cannot afford it, can get them at the health dept. or even their schools for free. At least in NJ.

 

[Harry Dresden]

Do you believe in the philosophy from each according to his ability to each according to his need?

Nope.

The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not.
Thomas Jefferson

Then why are hospitals mandated that they provide for people whether they pay or not.

because Jefferson is not the Prez?......

 

[Harry Dresden]

The costs will fall as they have in the ten western industrialized nations who pay 1/2 for their national health care, and have healthier, longer living populations.

and this is because they have NHC?.....you can have the greatest health care on the planet....if you dont take care of yourself,then the health care means squat,until your in the hospital with a heart attack....which is one of Americas problems.....many people are WAY to overweight....including a lot of kids...

 

[auditor0007]

From my understanding most people here would prefer it if I just die since it is my fault that I no longer have health insurance.

What the people are saying is that problems should not be collectivized nor should the government has the power to force me to be my brother's keepers.


.

What you are saying is that insurance shouldn't be a risk pool. If someone develops a long term illness, then insurance companies should be able to double, triple, or quadruple their rates whenever they can find a way to do so, so that those who are healthy don't have to foot any of the bill. I truly hope that those of you who feel this way eventually find yourself in a similar situation so you can see how well our current system works.

 

[auditor0007]

We already take care of the poor in this country. I don't have a problem with that (exc for the fraud and abuse) What I do have a problem with is paying for my neighbors insurance while his kids get a free ride to college and he drives a nicer car than us. That's why the whole mortgage bailout and cash for clunkers pissed me off. We have many many irresponsible people in this country living beyond their means. And we are rewarding them for that. Our income has been cut in half the past few months. We have lost tons in our kids college funds and 401Ks. But guess what? We have SAVED for a rainy day. And if I lost my job tomorrow we would pay for Cobra. It would be painful but that's our priority.

I am tired of this govt telling us to reward irresponsibility and punish success.

Now let's say that you have been diagnosed with cancer. You can no longer work, but your spouse still works. Unfortunately, you were the one who provided health insurance through your employer as your spouse works for a small business that doesn't provide insurance. Cobra runs out in 18 months, and no insurance company will touch you. Good luck, because you will then lose everything you ever saved, and then the medical bills will bankrupt you. You may or may not receive the ongoing care you need, and in the end, it may also cost you your life. This happens to many people everyday, but until it happens to you, you just aren't going to get it.

 

[rdean]

My estimate says that for every insurance company whose CEO gets a 40 million dollar salary, that's 2000 people who can't get surgery because of a "pre existing" condition.

People are trying to make going to the emergency room cheap, but I'm still trying to figure out what insurance companies actually do for the health of patients?

I know they skim money. Then what?

 

[toomuchtime_]

We already take care of the poor in this country. I don't have a problem with that (exc for the fraud and abuse) What I do have a problem with is paying for my neighbors insurance while his kids get a free ride to college and he drives a nicer car than us. That's why the whole mortgage bailout and cash for clunkers pissed me off. We have many many irresponsible people in this country living beyond their means. And we are rewarding them for that. Our income has been cut in half the past few months. We have lost tons in our kids college funds and 401Ks. But guess what? We have SAVED for a rainy day. And if I lost my job tomorrow we would pay for Cobra. It would be painful but that's our priority.

I am tired of this govt telling us to reward irresponsibility and punish success.

Now let's say that you have been diagnosed with cancer. You can no longer work, but your spouse still works. Unfortunately, you were the one who provided health insurance through your employer as your spouse works for a small business that doesn't provide insurance. Cobra runs out in 18 months, and no insurance company will touch you. Good luck, because you will then lose everything you ever saved, and then the medical bills will bankrupt you. You may or may not receive the ongoing care you need, and in the end, it may also cost you your life. This happens to many people everyday, but until it happens to you, you just aren't going to get it.

Suppose this is true, and let's also suppose that ERISA had been modified so that your previous employer had been required to let you choose to accept the company provided group health insurance coverage or to take the company contribution and apply it to an individual policy from any company you chose, and let's also suppose that you found an insurance company that would sell you a disability rider for your health insurance policy, so that when you lost your job because of your illness your insurance would remain in force and you would not have to pay premiums until you recovered. The solution to the problem you describe is not more government in health insurance but getting government out of the way in order to restore choice and competition to the health insurance market.

 

[Contumacious]

What the people are saying is that problems should not be collectivized nor should the government has the power to force me to be my brother's keepers.


.

What you are saying is that insurance shouldn't be a risk pool. If someone develops a long term illness, then insurance companies should be able to double, triple, or quadruple their rates whenever they can find a way to do so, so that those who are healthy don't have to foot any of the bill. I truly hope that those of you who feel this way eventually find yourself in a similar situation so you can see how well our current system works.

Insurance companies must recruit investors by offering a decent rate of return on their investments.

Obamacare will FORCE Americans to invest in his scam by sending federal troops to shoot those who oppose.


Which one is the best deal?


.

 

[mskafka]

I posted this in another thread that was talking about illegal immigrants getting healthcare paid for by the government, but I wanted to shift gears a little and talk about WHO should pay for healthcare for citizens.



Do you think that the federal laws should be changed that mandate that emergency rooms treat all patients regardless of their ability to pay (EMTALA)?

Maybe ERs should adopt pre-pay policies. You tell them what your problem is, you pay cash (or credit card, money order, bank check) and then you can see the doctor. If he recommends a CT scan, you lay down $1K and the picture will be taken.

If you are in an accident and you are unconscious, just a few simple calls to your bank and your funds will be wired...then you can be seen.

There are some hospitals in this country that exclusively see people on government insurance or the poor who cannot pay anything. If the government did not help them, they would not exist.

We are no longer talking about illegal immigrants. We are talking about natural-born citizen. We are talking about you.

Let every citizen charge it if they have to and make all debts to hospitals public records. Anyone interested in helping someone with a medical bill can earmark a contribution to a specific person. Then we'll see who is running up everyone's tab and who is truly willing to help out a sick person in need.

I would think that making debts to hospitals "public records" would be a HIPPA violation. I suppose that it would be okay as long as NO information were posted with the debt. But placing something like this in public records would result prison time, and civil lawsuits on a GRAND SCALE! We think healthcare is expensive now-wait until someone pulls this stunt.