I have no words for this AZ SC ruling

[g5000]

I found the Arizona mandatory reporter law: 13-3620 - Duty to report abuse, physical injury, neglect and denial or deprivation of medical or surgical care or nourishment of minors; medical records; exception; violation; classification; definitions

It needs to be fucking changed. Immediately.

A member of the clergy, a Christian Science practitioner or a priest who has received a confidential communication or a confession in that person's role as a member of the clergy, as a Christian Science practitioner or as a priest in the course of the discipline enjoined by the church to which the member of the clergy, the Christian Science practitioner or the priest belongs may withhold reporting of the communication or confession if the member of the clergy, the Christian Science practitioner or the priest determines that it is reasonable and necessary within the concepts of the religion. This exemption applies only to the communication or confession and not to personal observations the member of the clergy, the Christian Science practitioner or the priest may otherwise make of the minor.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Thank you for such a reasoned response. I do think the policy for the LDS sinner is (1) that you do have to confess to your Bishop, and (2) that he will inform the police.

I don't know if that is true or not, or if you have any better basis than I do to know or guess what this policy may be.

My personal opinion is that restoration and restitution where possible and appropriate is part of repentance.

Not an opinion. As far as I understand, that's pretty much explicit doctrine and policy, that repentance requires every possible good faith effort at restoration and restitution. If it is in any way possible to mitigate the harm that you have unjustly caused, and you have not made every reasonable effort to do so, then you have not repented.

 

[g5000]

Thank you for such a reasoned response. I do think the policy for the LDS sinner is (1) that you do have to confess to your Bishop, and (2) that he will inform the police.

According to the Arizona law I just cited, the Bishop is not required to report your confessed crimes to the police, no matter how heinous.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

I don't know if that is true or not, or if you have any better basis than I do to know or guess what this policy may be.




Not an opinion. As far as I understand, that's pretty much explicit doctrine and policy, that repentance requires every possible good faith effort at restoration and restitution. If it is in any way possible to mitigate the harm that you have unjustly caused, and you have not made every reasonable effort to do so, then you have not repented.

I am glad my opinion meshes with your understanding of the matter.

 

[The5thHorseman]

You hate the religious worse than pedos, and we all know it.

Just because I think they need more martyrs?

 

[JoeB131]

The Mormon church has been corrupt for decades.... where do you think they got their power? In the 70s and 80s by overseeing Vegas .

They ALLOWED the mob to come in and do their thing.
But until the FBI finally infiltrated with Howard Hughes buying up casinos....etc.. the State of Nevada commissioners and other officials.... they were OWNED by the Mormons....they made billions....then branched off to real estate, healthcare and everything else.

While the mafia was literally laundering their money straight to the Vatican and kick back to Chicago and New York of course the Mormons were building a huge church of their own tax free empire .

Um, guy, no one has been bigger on ripping on the Mormon Cult (and yes, it is a Cult!) than I have. I have no love for organized religion in general.

And that said, I can see the wisdom of this ruling.

 

[JoeB131]

I don't know about Arizona, but in my state all counselors and clergy are mandatory reporters. If they are made aware of any abuse or of a pending crime, even in a confidential setting, they are required by law to report it to the authorities.

This decision by the Az Supreme Court is beyond fucked up.

I find myself in the odd position of having to defend the Catholic Church and the Mormon Cult. (Two institutions I truly despise.)

On first amendment grounds, this law should be overturned. It's simply a government overreach into the internal workings of a Church.

I think it was contemptable that the Churches have covered this sort of stuff up, but that kind of government interference into a church. And I think such rules do more harm than good. If someone knows he's doing wrong, a church might help him get right, but he won't do it if he knows he's going to be reported the minute he opens his mouth.

It should also be pointed out that nothing in this ruling stops the church from reporting if they feel that is the best course of action, only that they aren't required to.

 

[TNHarley]

So you think the 1st amendment should be applied selectively?

.

My religion sacrifices humans to the volcano god. Try and stop me!

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

the 1st Amendment should not shield child abuse

 

[OKTexas]

My religion sacrifices humans to the volcano god. Try and stop me!

Which volcano god?

.

 

[gtopa1]

Its a religious exemption from state law. Its bullshit.

No it's not. The PENITENT would be advised to REPENT and report themselves to the Police. Many a Clergy has died rather than break the Seal of the Confessional. It may not be liked but it is VITAL for the Salvation of souls and frankly the reduction of the crime rate as well.

and yes; I understand you thinking it's bullshit, but I respectfully disagree.

Greg

 

[TNHarley]

No it's not. The PENITENT would be advised to REPENT and report themselves to the Police. Many a Clergy has died rather than break the Seal of the Confessional. It may not be liked but it is VITAL for the Salvation of souls and frankly the reduction of the crime rate as well.

and yes; I understand you thinking it's bullshit, but I respectfully disagree.

Greg

Someones religious beliefs dont trump the liberties of others. Especially childrens innocence.

 

[gtopa1]

Someones religious beliefs dont trump the liberties of others. Especially childrens innocence.

Without the "Religious belief" there is no confession so no way of giving direction to the sinner.
You seem not to quite understand that Confessions are ANONYMOUS. No name, no evidence. You want to videotape every confession? No; the POLICE are the ones investigating CRIMES. You want the Inquisition back??? OK by me; but isn't there a separation between Church and State?

Greg

 

[TNHarley]

Without the "Religious belief" there is no confession so no way of giving direction to the sinner.
You seem not to quite understand that Confessions are ANONYMOUS. No name, no evidence. You want to videotape every confession? No; the POLICE are the ones investigating CRIMES. You want the Inquisition back??? OK by me; but isn't there a separation between Church and State?

Greg

My only point is, by law, people are required to report child abuse. Unless you wear a robe and work in a church.... I think that is a load of bullshit.
Even therapists and shit have to report child abuse!
IDK man... just seems fucked up.

 

[Dogmaphobe]

For once you have it right.

You must have just one finger and need it to help you count.

I count his having it right tens of thousands of times by now.

 

[gtopa1]

Someones religious beliefs dont trump the liberties of others. Especially childrens innocence.

A precondition for a valid Confession is sincere remorse. SINCERE. Otherwise it is just some tryhard mouthing crap to a Priest (or whatever other denominations have). The Priest can't even JUDGE the matter. Yes they are able to absolve sins (including the time when I was eight and stole that chocolate bar) but ONLY in the Name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost. The Judging is done by God, and last I heard he's NOT easily fooled.

It is what it is. A SACRAMENT; not a court of Law.

Greg

 

[The5thHorseman]

You must have just one finger and need it to help you count.

I count his having it right tens of thousands of times by now.

Probably cause where your head's at, the sun don't shine.

 

[gtopa1]

My only point is, by law, people are required to report child abuse. Unless you wear a robe and work in a church.... I think that is a load of bullshit.
Even therapists and shit have to report child abuse!
IDK man... just seems fucked up.

It ain't easy that's for sure but as I have said the Seal of the Confessional is binding. I assure you the Priest would be doing all in their Power to get the pervert to go to the Police.

Greg

 

[gtopa1]

Probably cause where your head's at, the sun don't shine.

Piss off, wedged!!

Greg

 

[Dogmaphobe]

Its a religious exemption from state law. Its bullshit.

Where I would draw the line if it were up to me is this:

If a confessional involves being attracted sexually to children, there doesn't need to be an automatic report to authorities, the thought being that they may be seeking help and have so confessed to the person they trust to help them avoid crossing the line between wanting and doing.

If they are confessing to actually carrying out the sexual abuse, we are talking children, here. We should absolutely protect the innocence of childhood. The very notion of a liberal society involves protecting the most vulnerable, and whereas none of the leftists in this forum understand that, I sure know you and I do.