If intelligent beings lived on other planets, they'd have visited us by now

[iamwhatiseem]

You are using our own limited abilities with no possibility that other more advanced technology may exist beyond what we currently know. I believe Stryder 50 made a good point in his Wright Bros. analogy. The same could be said about flat earthers hundreds of years ago.

No it is not the same.
Flat earthers based their belief on ignorance, not knowledge. Indeed the refusal of knowledge.
The Aztecs, ancient Egyptians 2500 years ago all knew the Earth was round. Based on what they gained by knowledge of observation.

And I am NOT saying there is no technology that gets around the FLT barrier and relativity. Not at all.
What I AM saying is that discovery isn't going to happen magically. *POOF*!! - yay a spaceship that can travel by creating it's own Warp bubble!!
That discovery will take a very long time, and enormous resources and time and currency.
It will still only be able to travel at some finite speed. Instantaneous travel is a pipe dream. That is unimaginably harder and greater technology that traveling via a Warp drive.
I don't think in terms of magic. That "oh we just don't know that this technology exist"... no. I know that whatever technology that is out there, isn't going to come easy and cheap. And therefore - the use of it isn't going to simply play around with it.
If Aliens had the technology of multiple FLT space travel... it is a terrifying thought what other technology they have and what would be the reason they would come here. And would they see us like our forefathers saw the Indians?
Likely.

 

[Concerned American]

Flat earthers based their belief on ignorance, not knowledge.

It is always ignorance when you don't know what you don't know. Less than 100 years ago we had no idea that penicillin existed. Until Galileo's discovery of Jupiters moons, common belief held that we were the center of the universe. I am simply saying that it is short sighted to think that today's tech is the end all compared to what technology is possible. I have an open mind.

That discovery will take a very long time, and enormous resources and time and currency.

For humans on earth that is absolutely true, but there may be civilizations in the wide universe who have already discovered that tech and that they are observing what we do. Why would an advanced, peaceful civilization insert themselves into a society as confused and warlike as ours.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

It is always ignorance when you don't know what you don't know. Less than 100 years ago we had no idea that penicillin existed. Until Galileo's discovery of Jupiters moons, common belief held that we were the center of the universe. I am simply saying that it is short sighted to think that today's tech is the end all compared to what technology is possible. I have an open mind.

For humans on earth that is absolutely true, but there may be civilizations in the wide universe who have already discovered that tech and that they are observing what we do. Why would an advanced, peaceful civilization insert themselves into a society as confused and warlike as ours.

You are assuming they are peaceful.
That, in itself, is an opinion based on ignorance.
As I stated before, any sentient species that became the dominate species... had to be a dominate species. And everything that goes with that. A species will not become the dominate species by "being friendly and peaceful". It is just true. A more aggressive species would have wiped them out well back in their evolution. Like how homo sapiens did to other biped humanoids.
Then to progress themselves, they would have farmed and produced livestock out of lesser animals like we do.
I know you think I am being pessimistic, but I can likewise say you are being optimistic.
I don't believe we are unique. I totally believe, based on realistic thinking, that there is other sentient life out there and any number of them may be well -well - well beyond out technology. But... I also believe the same laws of life exist where ever that life is. I believe the likelihood they are not going to be so friendly outweighs the likelihood they would be.

 

[Concerned American]

You are assuming they are peaceful.

There is more evidence of that than to the contrary. IF, and that is a big word, they have the technology that we've discussed, and they had designs on taking over the earth, it would have been done already. I hold that they are observing passively IF they know we are here. There are infinite possibilities and to deny any of them is no more than advancement of our own ignorance.
You are blinded by the experiences that you've had with human development and evolution and you are not open to any other possibilities. It is clear I won't change your mind. Yes, I am optimistic.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

There is more evidence of that than to the contrary. IF, and that is a big word, they have the technology that we've discussed, and they had designs on taking over the earth, it would have been done already. I hold that they are observing passively IF they know we are here. There are infinite possibilities and to deny any of them is no more than advancement of our own ignorance.
You are blinded by the experiences that you've had with human development and evolution and you are not open to any other possibilities. It is clear I won't change your mind. Yes, I am optimistic.

And that could simply come from different perspective for many reasons.
I will respect yours, and you should also respect mine.
Even though we are unlikely to change the opinion of the other, the exercise is interesting

 

[Carl in Michigan]

Consider this "science fiction" if the subject is too upsetting;
...
Actually, intelligent space faring extra-terrestrials arrived in this Solar System somewhere between 500,000 to 1,000,000 million years ago as part of a larger inter-stellar colonization effort. Initially they were engaged in exploration and survey efforts so it was about 500,000 years or so back in our timeline when the major colonization efforts began here; on Earth, Mars, and other places in this Solar System.

Unfortunately, about 300,000 to 330,000 years ago one of the main stars in the core cluster of Home Worlds/Planets went supernova, creating what we now know as the Geminga Pulsar. This supernova event happened in the direction of what we know as the Orion Constellation. Tens to hundreds of billions of beings had their home worlds/planets destroyed, their lives lost and their karma~reincarnation cycles abruptly shut down.

Like many other colonies on the peripheral sphere, the "Gemingians/Annunaki" here in the Sol/Ki-Terra System found themselves cut-off from not only the prime source of spare parts and new equipment, but also any significant numbers of future colonists. Fortunately, carbon based biology in this part of the Galaxy all is based upon similar RNA and DNA devices, and life on Ki/Terra/Earth was compatible with that where these ET colonists originated from.

Some minor adjustments to a local indigenous and semi-sentient simian species produced a viable and inter-breedable being which these ET colonists could use to regenerate the karma cycle for their brethren whom perished in the supernova. Genesis Chapter six, Versus one to six are a metaphor of what then took place.

The "Gemingans/Annunakis" while they had extensive libraries of knowledge, needed to re-establish civilization and especially industry to recover and that would require a large population base than what they had arrived here with. Hence we humans were jump-started on our evolutionary path to fill that need/gap.

"Religions" were a handy population control and instruction device for the Annunaki colonists to use with their newly developed worker species(humans) which also included special blood(genetic) lines for some of their fellow members lost in the supernova to occupy and continue their soul karma regeneration process.

Of course there were similar efforts happening in other star/planet systems in this area of the Galaxy by other stranded colonial efforts and over time they re-established contact with each other. Sometimes with a bit of friction and conflict involved due to different factions that survived the supernova disaster.

The rest one could say is history, and the future to be made.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
It has been suggested that this "moon" of Saturn's; Iapetus, might be the remains of the huge colony ship used in the initial efforts to establish basing in this Solar System.

Iapetus - Moon with a View: Or, What Did Arthur Know … and When Did He Know it?
~~~~~~~~~~~
From this thread;
The Geminga Scenario

This, folks, is what happens when an entire generation grows up on a diet of science FICTION
Ike I said we already KNOW with absolute certainty that NOTHING moves faster than the speed of light in a vacuum. No physical object can even move at that speed.

 

[Concerned American]

we already KNOW with absolute certainty

LOL, you don't know what you don't know.

 

[Carl in Michigan]

LOL, you don't know what you don't know.

No, there are physical absolutes that govern the universe. You're engaging in wishful thinking, not SCIENCE

 

[Who_Me?]

If they haven't come here yet, they never will. We are alone in the universe.

If they were intelligent, they wouldn't come here.

 

[Stryder50]

This, folks, is what happens when an entire generation grows up on a diet of science FICTION
Ike I said we already KNOW with absolute certainty that NOTHING moves faster than the speed of light in a vacuum. No physical object can even move at that speed.

Better than growing up on a diet of theological fantasy and thinking such is real. Like what is found in the Bible or Koran.

As for speed of light an absolute limit;

Warp drives: Physicists give chances of faster-than-light space travel a boost

If humanity wants to travel between stars, people are going to need to travel faster than light. New research suggests that it might be possible to build warp drives and beat the galactic speed limit.

theconversation.com

Warp Speed Travel Is Theoretically Possible, Says Astrophysicist

Despite all the intergalactic hopping in science fiction and the occasional extraordinary research claim, most of us have accepted that when it comes to travel, humanity is always going to be limited by the speed of light. Of course, we haven't manag

www.sciencealert.com