If it is your body & your choice why the he'll do I have to pay for the next 18 years?

[Care4all]

She unlocked the door for him to come in,

He chose to come in the unlocked door.

They BOTH are responsible for their child's financial support.

 

[NYcarbineer]

You want complete control over the entire situation (pregnancy, life & death) then you should foot the entire bill.

Period

Just to be clear,

you want the father to be able to say, if you don't get abortion I'm not paying any support...

 

[Care4all]

It is entirely about biology. I realize you prefer it not be because it is inconvenient, but those are the facts. If you decide to have sex and you aren't snipped, that is the chance you take. You go into the deal with your eyes open. If you think it is a bad deal, then don't do it.

Then one can just as easily say that for the woman... oh wait, she has an out than men don't have.

You don't want equality, you want to have your cake and eat it too.

Since I am a man, it's not my cake. The reason she has an out the man doesn't have is due to biology. At the same time, the man can (assuming he's a total ass) just walk away. The woman can't. Again, due to biology. It's her body, not the man's. He gets no say in it.

You don't want equality, you want control. "Fair" is just a code word for control. If you really don't think it is fair, then stand up for your rights and refuse to have sex. That will teach those darn women.

She CAN just walk away, its called an abortion. She doesn't have to refuse to have sex, she has an out. What is the issue with men having a legal out as well?

It would spread responsibility equally, before sex, and after.

You are holding one sex to a higher standard than the other. Where is the equality in that?

Marty, marty, Marty....

The woman, (for the most part) who has the baby is the woman who has never even thought she had a right to abortion, abortion has never been in her vocabulary..... CAN YOU COMPREHEND THAT? She has never had a CHOICE, there was no choice of abortion to make for her, abortion was UNTHINKABLE.

AND YOU are saying, THIS WOMAN, this woman who never had a choice, (due to religious reasons for the most part) should be punished with no financial help from the Father for his and her child, BECAUSE other women DO have a choice to have an abortion? Because other women fought for this right to abort, and other men voted for this right to choice, when she never ever even considered it a choice....or because of some Supreme court decision for OTHER WOMEN that she never considered herself a part of...?

You are INSANE....on this, dear one.

Her religion should trump the law ? Tell that to phamacists who don't want to fill morning after pill prescriptions.

there is no law that makes abortion MANDATORY if a woman gets pregnant outside of marriage but you and Marty, and Gramps sure would like for there to be one, it seems.....?

So how is her religious stance trumping the law?

 

[martybegan]

Then one can just as easily say that for the woman... oh wait, she has an out than men don't have.

You don't want equality, you want to have your cake and eat it too.

Since I am a man, it's not my cake. The reason she has an out the man doesn't have is due to biology. At the same time, the man can (assuming he's a total ass) just walk away. The woman can't. Again, due to biology. It's her body, not the man's. He gets no say in it.

You don't want equality, you want control. "Fair" is just a code word for control. If you really don't think it is fair, then stand up for your rights and refuse to have sex. That will teach those darn women.

She CAN just walk away, its called an abortion. She doesn't have to refuse to have sex, she has an out. What is the issue with men having a legal out as well?

It would spread responsibility equally, before sex, and after.

You are holding one sex to a higher standard than the other. Where is the equality in that?

Marty, marty, Marty....

The woman, (for the most part) who has the baby is the woman who has never even thought she had a right to abortion, abortion has never been in her vocabulary..... CAN YOU COMPREHEND THAT? She has never had a CHOICE, there was no choice of abortion to make for her, abortion was UNTHINKABLE.

AND YOU are saying, THIS WOMAN, this woman who never had a choice, (due to religious reasons for the most part) should be punished with no financial help from the Father for his and her child, BECAUSE other women DO have a choice to have an abortion? Because other women fought for this right to abort, and other men voted for this right to choice, when she never ever even considered it a choice....or because of some Supreme court decision for OTHER WOMEN that she never considered herself a part of...?

You are INSANE....on this, dear one.

Her religion should trump the law ? Tell that to phamacists who don't want to fill morning after pill prescriptions.

there is no law that makes abortion MANDATORY if a woman gets pregnant outside of marriage but you and Marty, and Gramps sure would like for there to be one, it seems.....?

So how is her religious stance trumping the law?

1. Please, when a thread gets this long, use a call out when you reference me. Its just good form.

2. I in no shape or form propose such a law. To me abortion is something to be regulated by the State Legislatures, my issue with Roe V Wade is the process, not the outcome.

 

[dilloduck]

Then one can just as easily say that for the woman... oh wait, she has an out than men don't have.

You don't want equality, you want to have your cake and eat it too.

Since I am a man, it's not my cake. The reason she has an out the man doesn't have is due to biology. At the same time, the man can (assuming he's a total ass) just walk away. The woman can't. Again, due to biology. It's her body, not the man's. He gets no say in it.

You don't want equality, you want control. "Fair" is just a code word for control. If you really don't think it is fair, then stand up for your rights and refuse to have sex. That will teach those darn women.

She CAN just walk away, its called an abortion. She doesn't have to refuse to have sex, she has an out. What is the issue with men having a legal out as well?

It would spread responsibility equally, before sex, and after.

You are holding one sex to a higher standard than the other. Where is the equality in that?

Marty, marty, Marty....

The woman, (for the most part) who has the baby is the woman who has never even thought she had a right to abortion, abortion has never been in her vocabulary..... CAN YOU COMPREHEND THAT? She has never had a CHOICE, there was no choice of abortion to make for her, abortion was UNTHINKABLE.

AND YOU are saying, THIS WOMAN, this woman who never had a choice, (due to religious reasons for the most part) should be punished with no financial help from the Father for his and her child, BECAUSE other women DO have a choice to have an abortion? Because other women fought for this right to abort, and other men voted for this right to choice, when she never ever even considered it a choice....or because of some Supreme court decision for OTHER WOMEN that she never considered herself a part of...?

You are INSANE....on this, dear one.

Her religion should trump the law ? Tell that to phamacists who don't want to fill morning after pill prescriptions.

there is no law that makes abortion MANDATORY if a woman gets pregnant outside of marriage but you and Marty, and Gramps sure would like for there to be one, it seems.....?

So how is her religious stance trumping the law?

"IF" there were a law that gave men the same choice as women ( opt out of responsibility for bringing a child in to the world ) it appears as if you want to somehow claim that religious women who feel morally obligated to give birth should be compensated by the father whether he wants to or not.

 

[Care4all]

Since I am a man, it's not my cake. The reason she has an out the man doesn't have is due to biology. At the same time, the man can (assuming he's a total ass) just walk away. The woman can't. Again, due to biology. It's her body, not the man's. He gets no say in it.

You don't want equality, you want control. "Fair" is just a code word for control. If you really don't think it is fair, then stand up for your rights and refuse to have sex. That will teach those darn women.

She CAN just walk away, its called an abortion. She doesn't have to refuse to have sex, she has an out. What is the issue with men having a legal out as well?

It would spread responsibility equally, before sex, and after.

You are holding one sex to a higher standard than the other. Where is the equality in that?

Marty, marty, Marty....

The woman, (for the most part) who has the baby is the woman who has never even thought she had a right to abortion, abortion has never been in her vocabulary..... CAN YOU COMPREHEND THAT? She has never had a CHOICE, there was no choice of abortion to make for her, abortion was UNTHINKABLE.

AND YOU are saying, THIS WOMAN, this woman who never had a choice, (due to religious reasons for the most part) should be punished with no financial help from the Father for his and her child, BECAUSE other women DO have a choice to have an abortion? Because other women fought for this right to abort, and other men voted for this right to choice, when she never ever even considered it a choice....or because of some Supreme court decision for OTHER WOMEN that she never considered herself a part of...?

You are INSANE....on this, dear one.

Her religion should trump the law ? Tell that to phamacists who don't want to fill morning after pill prescriptions.

there is no law that makes abortion MANDATORY if a woman gets pregnant outside of marriage but you and Marty, and Gramps sure would like for there to be one, it seems.....?

So how is her religious stance trumping the law?

"IF" there were a law that gave men the same choice as women ( opt out of responsibility for bringing a child in to the world ) it appears as if you want to somehow claim that religious women who feel morally obligated to give birth should be compensated by the father whether he wants to or not.

I can see perhaps how a man may feel this way, but it is far from reality from my perspective as a female. And whether religious or not religious, if the woman doesn't believe in having an abortion, in the Termination of pregnancy, no one, outside of herself, should be trying to force her in to having this intrusive medical procedure, no one should make this decision for her, other than herself and or her advisers, and by all means the father to be, should be in this advisory team, but ultimately, the decision to carry a pregnancy is the woman's, who will be carrying the pregnancy.

There can be no law, for the man regarding carrying a pregnancy to term in their own body to make it equal to the woman's choice Dillo.... because a man will NEVER carry a pregnancy to term in their own body. Science dictates this and there is no fooling Mother Nature.

In all else, men have equal choice in this matter of getting their sex partner pregnant. Men CAN stop this from happening before it happens...it's not like they don't have say...so to speak...because they do have say, only at an earlier point in the process.

Seems like a simple discussion ahead of time, or knowing how their sex partner stands on the subject, should be discerned beforehand.....and yes for young ones this is probably unreasonable....heat of the moment I suppose?

 

[dilloduck]

ya ya---and the reality of the female perspective is far from the reality of the male perspective. I'm so sorry women have to bear this tremendous burden. I really am. Maybe if you were born a man things would have been better...

 

[Care4all]

ya ya---and the reality of the female perspective is far from the reality of the male perspective. I'm so sorry women have to bear this tremendous burden. I really am. Maybe if you were born a man things would have been better...

I wouldn't trade being a woman for anything in the world dillo, I am right where I belong.

And I didn't mean to come off as if it is an "us vs them", or "female vs. male"...both have rolls in this situation, and if allowed to come in to fruition, there is a third life at stake as well..., after all...it is 'child support' we are discussing, not 'alimony', right? I just don't think that ones seedling, should be punished for being born.

And I am not denying that in some cases, there may have been injustices, where the woman may have "tricked" the man in to providing his seed.... or even lured the guy in to having sex, etc...and holding the guy financially responsible in many of these specific cases could certainly be considered unfair.

 

[dilloduck]

Do males have reproductive rights or is that something only women have ?

 

[Syriusly]

Do males have reproductive rights or is that something only women have ?

Sure- a man has reproductive rights- a man can among other things:
a) refuse to stick his dick into a vagina or
b) wear a condom or
c) get a vasectomy or
d) none of the above

Once the sperm enters the woman's body though- the woman controls what happens within her body- just as a man controls what happens in his body.

If a baby results- then both are equally legally responsible.

 

[dilloduck]

in other words---no. A baby will never occur without multiple consents from his mate.

 

[Syriusly]

in other words---no. A baby will never occur without multiple consents from his mate.

In other words- you have reading comprehension problems

Sure- a man has reproductive rights- a man can among other things:
a) refuse to stick his dick into a vagina or
b) wear a condom or
c) get a vasectomy or
d) none of the above

Once the sperm enters the woman's body though- the woman controls what happens within her body- just as a man controls what happens in his body.

If a baby results- then both are equally legally responsible.

 

[dilloduck]

Why should a male be responsible for a decision made entirely by a woman ? A living baby is not the result of sex. It is the result of a woman's decision. How about you making car payments on the car I decide to buy ?

 

[Syriusly]

Why should a male be responsible for a decision made entirely by a woman ? A living baby is not the result of sex. It is the result of a woman's decision. How about you making car payments on the car I decide to buy ?

Unless the woman is stealing the man's sperm- the decision is not entirely by her.

If you are a man and don't want a baby- either don't stick your penis in a vagina, or use birth control.

Not complicated at all.

 

[dilloduck]

of course it's made entirely by her. She's pregnant-----she decides if her pregnancy is carried to term. As women are quick to point out. Birth control measures don't always succeed.
Vasectomy ? Really ? just because a man doesn't want a child right now or by this mate he should give up his chance to sire a child forever ???

 

[Skylar]

Why should a male be responsible for a decision made entirely by a woman ? A living baby is not the result of sex. It is the result of a woman's decision. How about you making car payments on the car I decide to buy ?

A man is responsible for any child born that he fathered. What about this do you find so unfair?

And your analogy is crap. The car you're asking Sy to make payments on isn't his car. While any child you father is yours. So to follow your analogy, you're making payments on your OWN car.

Which brings us back to my original question: what about this do you find so unfair?

 

[Syriusly]

Why should a male be responsible for a decision made entirely by a woman ? A living baby is not the result of sex. It is the result of a woman's decision. How about you making car payments on the car I decide to buy ?

A man is responsible for any child born that he fathered. What about this do you find so unfair?

And your analogy is crap. The car you're asking Sy to make payments on isn't his car. While any child you father is yours. So to follow your analogy, you're making payments on your OWN car.

Which brings us back to my original question: what about this do you find so unfair?

I can't figure out whether they want to be able to force a woman to have an abortion- or just say- if she doesn't have an abortion when the man demands it, he doesn't have to pay child support.

 

[dilloduck]

Why should a male be responsible for a decision made entirely by a woman ? A living baby is not the result of sex. It is the result of a woman's decision. How about you making car payments on the car I decide to buy ?

A man is responsible for any child born that he fathered. What about this do you find so unfair?

And your analogy is crap. The car you're asking Sy to make payments on isn't his car. While any child you father is yours. So to follow your analogy, you're making payments on your OWN car.

Which brings us back to my original question: what about this do you find so unfair?

I can't figure out whether they want to be able to force a woman to have an abortion- or just say- if she doesn't have an abortion when the man demands it, he doesn't have to pay child support.

How about giving the man the same option as that the woman? The choice to opt out of parental responsibility.

 

[Skylar]

Why should a male be responsible for a decision made entirely by a woman ? A living baby is not the result of sex. It is the result of a woman's decision. How about you making car payments on the car I decide to buy ?

A man is responsible for any child born that he fathered. What about this do you find so unfair?

And your analogy is crap. The car you're asking Sy to make payments on isn't his car. While any child you father is yours. So to follow your analogy, you're making payments on your OWN car.

Which brings us back to my original question: what about this do you find so unfair?

I can't figure out whether they want to be able to force a woman to have an abortion- or just say- if she doesn't have an abortion when the man demands it, he doesn't have to pay child support.

How about giving the man the same option as that the woman? The choice to opt out of parental responsibility.

Here's the problem: there's never any scenario where a woman's parental responsibility is greater or less than a man's. A woman is responsible for every child she bears. And if she aborts, then neither the father nor she have any financial responsibility.

Their obligation is always equal. Either both are responsible. Or neither are. And always to the child. If the child exists, the obligation exists.

You're demanding that a woman be responsible for every child she bears, but a man never has to take responsibility for any child he fathers. That's not equality. But vast inequality. Not simply in terms of the parents. But in the child's right to support for both parents.

Your demand to be able to 'choose' is utterly outweighted by the child's right to support from both parents. Nor is 'choice' the basis of your obligation to support your own children. The child's existence is.

 

[Remodeling Maidiac]

Why should a male be responsible for a decision made entirely by a woman ? A living baby is not the result of sex. It is the result of a woman's decision. How about you making car payments on the car I decide to buy ?

A man is responsible for any child born that he fathered. What about this do you find so unfair?

And your analogy is crap. The car you're asking Sy to make payments on isn't his car. While any child you father is yours. So to follow your analogy, you're making payments on your OWN car.

Which brings us back to my original question: what about this do you find so unfair?

I can't figure out whether they want to be able to force a woman to have an abortion- or just say- if she doesn't have an abortion when the man demands it, he doesn't have to pay child support.

How about giving the man the same option as that the woman? The choice to opt out of parental responsibility.

Here's the problem: there's never any scenario where a woman's parental responsibility is greater or less than a man's. A woman is responsible for every child she bears. And if she aborts, then neither the father nor she have any financial responsibility.

Their obligation is always equal. Either both are responsible. Or neither are. And always to the child. If the child exists, the obligation exists.

You're demanding that a woman be responsible for every child she bears, but a man never has to take responsibility for any child he fathers. That's not equality. But vast inequality. Not simply in terms of the parents. But in the child's right to support for both parents.

Your demand to be able to 'choose' is utterly outweighted by the child's right to support from both parents. Nor is 'choice' the basis of your obligation to support your own children. The child's existence is.

The man has an equal choice to be responsible for a child. I fail to see the problem