Interstate clause precedents you dolts!

[Dr.House]

1993 - GOP Health Plan (their answer to HilaryCare) includes a Mandate.
1996 - RomneyCare includes a Mandate.
2008 - GOP Candidates McCain & Romney support a Mandate, Candidate Obama does not.
2010 - Pres. Obama's Health Plan, as a concession to Republicans, includes a Mandate.
2011 - Suddenly a Mandate is Socialism and UnConstitutional.
2012 - Right Rank & File are totally clueless that their votes have been supporting a Mandate
for 20 years.

Chris your memory of Obamacare is murky.

The bill passed without ONE single republican vote, there were no concessions made to republicans. The mandate was Obama and his Adminstration's baby, sure they might have copied a HORRIBLE republican idea but that doesn't make it right.

They made the concessions and STILL no republicans voted for it. They ended up being concessions to the blue dogs, but they were Republican ideas none the less.

So connsessions to democrats were consessions for republicans....lol

How about you list some of these consessions to democrats that were republican ideas as well as the actual republican whose idea it was?

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

Chris your memory of Obamacare is murky.

The bill passed without ONE single republican vote, there were no concessions made to republicans. The mandate was Obama and his Adminstration's baby, sure they might have copied a HORRIBLE republican idea but that doesn't make it right.

They made the concessions and STILL no republicans voted for it. They ended up being concessions to the blue dogs, but they were Republican ideas none the less.

So connsessions to democrats were consessions for republicans....lol

How about you list some of these consessions to democrats that were republican ideas as well as the actual republican whose idea it was?

That would totally disprove my point if he can do that

 

[Seawytch]

Chris your memory of Obamacare is murky.

The bill passed without ONE single republican vote, there were no concessions made to republicans. The mandate was Obama and his Adminstration's baby, sure they might have copied a HORRIBLE republican idea but that doesn't make it right.

They made the concessions and STILL no republicans voted for it. They ended up being concessions to the blue dogs, but they were Republican ideas none the less.

So connsessions to democrats were consessions for republicans....lol

How about you list some of these consessions to democrats that were republican ideas as well as the actual republican whose idea it was?

Already did. I provided a list of the items that were in the Republican answer to Hillarycare. Do the provisions in that Bob Dole bill look at all familiar?

The tons of Republican ideas that were put into the ACA served to entice the Blue Dog Democrats, the conservatives in the Democratic Party. They were all taken straight from Bob Dole's plan.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

They made the concessions and STILL no republicans voted for it. They ended up being concessions to the blue dogs, but they were Republican ideas none the less.

So connsessions to democrats were consessions for republicans....lol

How about you list some of these consessions to democrats that were republican ideas as well as the actual republican whose idea it was?

Already did. I provided a list of the items that were in the Republican answer to Hillarycare. Do the provisions in that Bob Dole bill look at all familiar?

The tons of Republican ideas that were put into the ACA served to entice the Blue Dog Democrats, the conservatives in the Democratic Party. They were all taken straight from Bob Dole's plan.

What specific concession in the Affordable Care Act are you referring to again, your list was from a republican plan in the 90's not from the affordable care act.

 

[Claudette]

Have faith.

He'll come up with something. LOL

 

[Dr.House]

So connsessions to democrats were consessions for republicans....lol

How about you list some of these consessions to democrats that were republican ideas as well as the actual republican whose idea it was?

Already did. I provided a list of the items that were in the Republican answer to Hillarycare. Do the provisions in that Bob Dole bill look at all familiar?

The tons of Republican ideas that were put into the ACA served to entice the Blue Dog Democrats, the conservatives in the Democratic Party. They were all taken straight from Bob Dole's plan.

What specific concession in the Affordable Care Act are you referring to again, your list was from a republican plan in the 90's not from the affordable care act.

That's what I was looking for...

 

[Dr.House]

They made the concessions and STILL no republicans voted for it. They ended up being concessions to the blue dogs, but they were Republican ideas none the less.

So connsessions to democrats were consessions for republicans....lol

How about you list some of these consessions to democrats that were republican ideas as well as the actual republican whose idea it was?

Already did. I provided a list of the items that were in the Republican answer to Hillarycare. Do the provisions in that Bob Dole bill look at all familiar?

The tons of Republican ideas that were put into the ACA served to entice the Blue Dog Democrats, the conservatives in the Democratic Party. They were all taken straight from Bob Dole's plan.

Why would you think a few concessions to blue dog democrats, despite whose idea it was in the 90s, be enough to sway republicans to the 2700+ page administrative nightmare known as 0bamacare?

That isn't logical...

 

[thereisnospoon]

Chris your memory of Obamacare is murky.

The bill passed without ONE single republican vote, there were no concessions made to republicans. The mandate was Obama and his Adminstration's baby, sure they might have copied a HORRIBLE republican idea but that doesn't make it right.

They made the concessions and STILL no republicans voted for it. They ended up being concessions to the blue dogs, but they were Republican ideas none the less.

So connsessions to democrats were consessions for republicans....lol

How about you list some of these consessions to democrats that were republican ideas as well as the actual republican whose idea it was?

Democrats idea of a concession is "We concede you will do it our way"

 

[Inthemiddle]

Who was being forced to buy Farmer Roscoe's wheat?

I think you misunderstand. The case was decided against the farmer on account of the fact that by growing his own wheat, the farmer was not engaging in commerce, and that such lack of participation in commerce had the ability to affect interstate commerce if many people were to similarly fail to engage in commerce. While Filburn's actions in and of themselves would probably have had an infintesimal effect on interstate commerce, the aggregate effect of many people doing the same thing could be substantial. Thus, it was within Congress' power to regulate what Filburn could grow on his farm for personal consumption, in order to force him to instead buy from the market and thus engage in commerce.

The court also explains: "But even if appellee's activity be local, and though it may not be regarded as commerce, it may still, whatever its nature, be reached by Congress if it exerts a substantial economic effect on interstate commerce, and this irrespective of whether such effect is what might at some earlier time have been defined as 'direct' or 'indirect.'"

 

[Seawytch]

Who was being forced to buy Farmer Roscoe's wheat?

I think you misunderstand. The case was decided against the farmer on account of the fact that by growing his own wheat, the farmer was not engaging in commerce, and that such lack of participation in commerce had the ability to affect interstate commerce if many people were to similarly fail to engage in commerce. While Filburn's actions in and of themselves would probably have had an infintesimal effect on interstate commerce, the aggregate effect of many people doing the same thing could be substantial. Thus, it was within Congress' power to regulate what Filburn could grow on his farm for personal consumption, in order to force him to instead buy from the market and thus engage in commerce.

The court also explains: "But even if appellee's activity be local, and though it may not be regarded as commerce, it may still, whatever its nature, be reached by Congress if it exerts a substantial economic effect on interstate commerce, and this irrespective of whether such effect is what might at some earlier time have been defined as 'direct' or 'indirect.'"

What percent of our GDP is Health Care?

 

[Seawytch]

So connsessions to democrats were consessions for republicans....lol

How about you list some of these consessions to democrats that were republican ideas as well as the actual republican whose idea it was?

Already did. I provided a list of the items that were in the Republican answer to Hillarycare. Do the provisions in that Bob Dole bill look at all familiar?

The tons of Republican ideas that were put into the ACA served to entice the Blue Dog Democrats, the conservatives in the Democratic Party. They were all taken straight from Bob Dole's plan.

Why would you think a few concessions to blue dog democrats, despite whose idea it was in the 90s, be enough to sway republicans to the 2700+ page administrative nightmare known as 0bamacare?

That isn't logical...

What isn't logical is the Republican intransigence on every issue. They walked into the Health Care debates knowing they weren't going to vote for anything that was introduced no matter what...including a health care plan they cooked up in the 90s.

 

[Dr.House]

Already did. I provided a list of the items that were in the Republican answer to Hillarycare. Do the provisions in that Bob Dole bill look at all familiar?

The tons of Republican ideas that were put into the ACA served to entice the Blue Dog Democrats, the conservatives in the Democratic Party. They were all taken straight from Bob Dole's plan.

Why would you think a few concessions to blue dog democrats, despite whose idea it was in the 90s, be enough to sway republicans to the 2700+ page administrative nightmare known as 0bamacare?

That isn't logical...

What isn't logical is the Republican intransigence on every issue. They walked into the Health Care debates knowing they weren't going to vote for anything that was introduced no matter what...including a health care plan they cooked up in the 90s.

Republicans were shut out of the development of ACA... When you're locked out of the creation of the bill, where is incentive to support it?

The 2700+ page 0bamanation that was passed in no way shape or form resembles anything "cooked up in the 90's"

Which Republicans were in the House when the plan was "cooked up in the 90's"? I'm pretty sure that the crew that voted against 0bamacare isn't the same as the crew in the 90's... A little disingenuous to call it "their" plan, wouldn't you agree?

 

[Inthemiddle]

Who was being forced to buy Farmer Roscoe's wheat?

Nobody, of course. But he is actively engaged in commerce as he markets his poultry and other livestock which feeds off his wheat - which is the raw material of his commercial endeavor.

This is different than forcing somebody NOT engaged in commerce to actively engage in commerce for the purpose of regulating it.


Hope that helps.

Unfortunately, you don't seem to have read the case, because that's not at all the rationale that the court applied. The power to regulate commerce does not exist through regulation of indirect commerce, as the court long maintained prior to this case. Thus, there is no power to regulate Filburn's wheat production on account of the fact that the wheat was used for the production of chicken, which then enter the market. The power exists based on the ability of the activity to have an aggregate effect on commerce. As the decision explains:

The maintenance by government regulation of a price for wheat undoubtedly can be accomplished as effectively by sustaining or increasing the demand as by limiting the supply. The effect of the statute before us is to restrict the amount which may be produced for market and the extent, as well, to which one may forestall resort to the market by producing to meet his own needs.

Your theory would mean that if Filburn was growing wheat on his farm for no other reason than to feed his chickens, which themselves were grown for no other reason than to feed himself, or even to be kept as pets, then the court would have ruled against him. However, the court did not even bother to take into consideration the purpose he kept chickens. Instead, the court focused on how his activity usurped his participation in the wheat market, and the fact that such activity could effect the wheat market if many people started doing the same thing.

 

[Inthemiddle]

The founders never meant for an overbearing government to force the citizens into buying anything.

You mean like forcing citizens to buy guns?

 

[driveby]

The founders never meant for an overbearing government to force the citizens into buying anything.

You mean like forcing citizens to buy guns?

That wasn't under the commerce clause, fail.......

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

AHEM I think someone is ignoring the call for them to back up their own claim

So connsessions to democrats were consessions for republicans....lol

How about you list some of these consessions to democrats that were republican ideas as well as the actual republican whose idea it was?

Already did. I provided a list of the items that were in the Republican answer to Hillarycare. Do the provisions in that Bob Dole bill look at all familiar?

The tons of Republican ideas that were put into the ACA served to entice the Blue Dog Democrats, the conservatives in the Democratic Party. They were all taken straight from Bob Dole's plan.

What specific concession in the Affordable Care Act are you referring to again, your list was from a republican plan in the 90's not from the affordable care act.

 

[PLYMCO_PILGRIM]

The founders never meant for an overbearing government to force the citizens into buying anything.

You mean like forcing citizens to buy guns?

Is that law still considered constitutional and on the books as active or was it rescinded?

 

[Inthemiddle]

If they made any REAL or MEANINGFUL concessoins they would have got republican votes, yet they got none. Actions speak louder than words

Are you fucking kidding me? Have you seen Congress lately? They're all a bunch of toddlers. Either they get everything they want, or no deal. You can't even depend on Republicans to support a tax reduction nowadays.

 

[Inthemiddle]

The founders never meant for an overbearing government to force the citizens into buying anything.

You mean like forcing citizens to buy guns?

That wasn't under the commerce clause, fail.......

No, you fail. I never said it was under the commerce clause.

 

[Inthemiddle]

The founders never meant for an overbearing government to force the citizens into buying anything.

You mean like forcing citizens to buy guns?

Is that law still considered constitutional and on the books as active or was it rescinded?

I'll answer any question you ask that is relevant to what I was saying. Grunt claimed that the founders never intended for the government to be able to force citizens to buy anything whatsoever. I provided an example of the founders doing just that.