Iran Placing Medium-Range Missiles in Venezuela; Can Reach the U.S

[Ropey]

Pft. Infidels.

You are clear.

 

[Ropey]

Who do you expect would man our gates? We should put our children there? So that their deaths would create a media outrage for us?

NO!

We will continue to put our most fanatic at the front lines, where they do wish to fight and kill the foe. We will continue to hide our young away when attacked.

Still, we moved all our most fanatic settlers out of Gaza and then unilaterally left Gaza. What happened? The Fatah and Hamas Palestinians started fighting. Since Israel had moved out of Gaza in the hopes that they would use the given settlements civilian infrastructure such as greenhouses, irrigation lines, etc. etc. Then the Hamas ran to the Gaza where the Joe had just left. They then began to disfigure and lamed any of the Fatah supporters. The Fatah themselves were given the rush out of windows and rooftops. They took over the area and they demolished all those Jew built settlements, keeping only some heavier built structures but burning the inside of it out to remove the unholiness of the Jew embedded in the structures.

They refuse to hold a vote because now both they AND the Palestinian authority are in violation. They can not get together to even accept they are one people! Where's the intellect?

 

[Kalam]

Pft. Infidels.

You are clear.

I'll assume that you acknowledge Israel's use of human shields/responsibility for Gaza's dead civilians.

 

[Ropey]

[Perhaps I misunderstood your praying icon after your comment about having missiles pointed at Iran. For clarification, you do or don't want us to blow the shit out of Iran?

I pray we do not have to use them. I pray if we do have to use them, that we win.

I don't buy that "One bomb country". Furthermore, any middle eastern country that used a nuke on Israel would incur the wrath of the world. That's why it is not going to happen. It's similar to MAD between the USSR and USA. However, it's basically "Your Assured Destruction". So basically, you have countries like Iran trying to provoke Israel into striking it first, so It can justify an escalation of the conflict.

Yes, I think Israel has to take the first hit. If it makes you feel better, I think the United States should too. If the past decade taught us anything, it's the notion of "Preventative War" is disastrous.

I suppose I might support it if there was a real smoking gun. Such as "We know they have the nukes and are intending to use them on a specific target within the next 24 days".

Other than that, if Israel picks a fight, they shouldn't expect a lot of support from the American people. Everyone here is sick of war.

What will come will come. Regardless of what people like. But you are clear. Unless there is clear proof that Iran has not only an ability to attack, but must be seen within twenty four hours to be ready to attack for a response to be made.

I understand you. I just disagree. America has no choice but to intercede because Iran has stated that the Straits of Hormuz will be shut down, thus cutting Americas hegemonic control and its ability to transfer the oil securely (even from Iran) will be severely curtailed. This represents 40% of the world's seaborne oil shipments, and 20% of all world shipments.

Look and see what revenues America extracts from the Strait of Hormuz. Look at what the financial gain is to the American (not Israeli) control of the middle eastern oil hegemony. Israel is a supporter of this American hegemony.

Iran has stated that any attack on it will be considered an attack from America. They have stated what they will do in such a case.

Why do you think Israel has not attacked?

Hundreds of thousands of American troops in Afghanistan, Kuwait, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, etc. are all targeted by Iran already.

No, Israel will not unilaterally attack. I don't think that they should either.

Are you?

 

[Ropey]

Pft. Infidels.

You are clear.

I'll assume that you acknowledge Israel's use of human shields/responsibility for Gaza's dead civilians.

There are some soldiers who have done this. It is not on order though. But all you are looking for is an Zionist indictment isn't it?

Will you acknowledge the Arabians who call themselves Palestinians use their young as shields also?

 

[Ropey]

Pft. Infidels.

You are clear.

I'll assume that you acknowledge Israel's use of human shields/responsibility for Gaza's dead civilians.

Assume means to make up your own mind with less than reliable facts.

You do this often?

 

[(R)IGHTeous 1]

What right wingers fail to understand is that Hugo Chavez isn't going to attack a "money tree", especially since Republicans made it possible for him to invest heavily in American Elections. And seriously, we know he's going to support Republicans. They share so many of the same values.

Remember, it was the Conservative Supreme Court under Justice Roberts that made American companies "citizens". Citgo is an American company, it just happens to be owned by Hugo Chavez.

USATODAY.com - Has Citgo become a political tool for Hugo Chvez?

But in fact there's nothing ordinary about Citgo. One of the USA's largest refiners, Citgo is a subsidiary of Venezuela's state-owned oil company, Petroleos de Venezuela S.A. (PDVSA). As such, it ultimately belongs to Venezuelan President Hugo Chávez, an avowedly anti-American leader who counts Fidel Castro among his closest friends and mocks President Bush as a "genocidal murderer."

Republicans can't help but fuck up anything they touch. I think it's part of their "party platform" or something.

 

[Ropey]

Pft. Infidels.

You are clear.

I'll assume that you acknowledge Israel's use of human shields/responsibility for Gaza's dead civilians.

Israel moved out of Gaza unilaterally. They assumed that the Arabians who call themselves Palestinians would take the area, use the Israeli settlements (that were simply abandoned).

Wrong!

And I reiterate:

Since Israel had moved out of Gaza in the hopes that they would use the given settlements civilian infrastructure such as greenhouses, irrigation lines, etc. etc. The border was far, far more open to them as well.

Then the Hamas ran to the Gaza after losing their fight to overthrow the Presidency. Gaza, where the Joe had just left. They then began to disfigure and lamed any of the Fatah supporters. The Fatah themselves were given the rush out of windows and rooftops. They took over the area and they demolished all those Joe built settlements, keeping only some heavier built structures but burning the inside of it out. They refuse to hold a vote because now both they AND the Palestinian authority are in violation.

 

[(R)IGHTeous 1]

The link lists EVERY Israeli killed...

...Which is precisely why it's useless. We're discussing civilian deaths only.

So you're unable to do simple math, that would explain alot.

 

[Ropey]

Oh he can do math. He's simply trying to isolate your facts rather than speak to them.

In a debate, he would not even be allowed to speak after one of those pitiful attempts.

Discussion? Not even close. He discusses by exclusion.

He might as well discuss with himself as that's really all he does.

The link lists EVERY Israeli killed...

...Which is precisely why it's useless. We're discussing civilian deaths only.

So you're unable to do simple math, that would explain alot.

 

[daveman]

You are clear.

I'll assume that you acknowledge Israel's use of human shields/responsibility for Gaza's dead civilians.

There are some soldiers who have done this. It is not on order though. But all you are looking for is an Zionist indictment isn't it?

Will you acknowledge the Arabians who call themselves Palestinians use their young as shields also?

He needs to acknowledge they use them as weapons, too.

Note to the Palis:

Real men do their own fighting. They don't send out kids and the mentally handicapped while they remain in hiding. Cowards, the lot of 'em.

 

[rdean]

He's still right.

You're a loon.

I put out truth, you call names. Nothing new.

It's not truth.

That's why you are a loon. Truth

Oh, but it is the truth Nuttard. Hugo Chavez wants his country run by the big companies he owns, Republicans want this country run by big companies here. That's why they made them "citizens".

No only that, right wingers want to destroy real education and invade our lives with all kinds of made up "Biblical" so called "moral" laws. Control women's bodies. Make gays felons. It's not like they hide it. Tell me why it's not true and I'll link you to Republican State Party Platforms that prove it is true.

The right wing is what it is. If they don't like their positions made public, they shouldn't put it down in writing.

 

[rdean]

As well, Iran has stated they have modified this missile and the range is of ~2500 km targeted.

This means ~3,000km non targeted delivery, and these missiles are capable of dealing out fissionable warheads.

The modifications made to the Shahab 3 are a huge step in the development and independence of the Iranian missile program. Whereas earlier Iranian missile developments could usually be traced to foreign sources, the modifications to the Shahab 3 appear to be domestic technologies.

The progress of the Shahab 3, from the mid-1990s to the present, represents the progress of Iranian missile independence and the growing international threat of Iranian aspirations. In the mid-1990s, Iran was building modified ‘Scud’ missiles with foreign assistance; in 2009, Iran successfully launched a satellite on a domestically-built rocket. The future of the Iranian program, in the Shahab 5 and 6, could extend their missile range into Europe.

Texas is not the closest state to Venezuela.

Just to educate you on what it means when someone says a missile has a range of 1500 km, that is an estimate, not a solid number. The longest sniper shot ever was over 2400 meters, which is further the new sniper rifle that the Army is just pushing out is rated for, and a lot further than the rifle that made the shot was supposed to be able to shoot. If rifles can shoot further than their range missiles can too.

You have to give a to the right on how hard they work to impress the world with Iran's "military might". There are endless lists of weapons attributed to the Iranians.

List of military equipment manufactured in Iran

But what do the Iranians say? Watch these. The one from Fox is the funniest.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTIoezhRS3g&feature[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUnGLFGpX_s&feature=related[/ame]

Somehow, the entire Iranian nuclear program was brought down with a computer virus.

Iranians have been working for years trying to "enrich uranium". It has to be around 99% pure to work in a bomb. So far, they have it about the same as a the x-ray you get from a "doctor's visit".

Religion and science don't mix. It's why Iranians and Republicans don't do well with "data" and "science". It's just the way it is.

The only threat from Iran is not what they discover, but what they "buy".

 

[(R)IGHTeous 1]

rdean wrote:

Oh, but it is the truth Nuttard. Hugo Chavez wants his country run by the big companies he owns, Republicans want this country run by big companies here. That's why they made them "citizens".

Thank you for asking to be embarrassed, I'll gladly oblige. Take your laughable, tired, DNC talking point "Evvvviiiil corporations are taking us over!" BS elsewhere, all you did there was hurt your credibility. We're for allowing success, not punishing and regulating it to death, commie.

No only that, right wingers want to destroy real education and invade our lives with all kinds of made up "Biblical" so called "moral" laws. Control women's bodies. Make gays felons. It's not like they hide it. Tell me why it's not true and I'll link you to Republican State Party Platforms that prove it is true.

Get your ass outta the CPUSA's, and DailyKos' ass. Private schools consistently outperform our sad, failing public system. No one Republican that I've ever seen or heard as EVER wanted to breach the Constitution with instituting "Biblical" law, so take your bigoted, anti-Christian, hate theories elsewhere, along with your pro-"choice" (MURDER) stance, the majority of the nation disagrees with you, as does the mountains of empirical evidence proving AN UNBORN FETUS IS A LIVING, BREATHING, FEELING, CONSCIOUS BEING. I'm a proud gay Republican, and in no platform, ever that I've seen, especially the national one, is something that crazy, and made up by you there, you're really grasping for straws huh.

The right wing is what it is.

Exactly, we aint called RIGHT for nothing dude, now run along.

 

[Ropey]

I disagree. The Iranian Ballistic Missile Program is not a paper tiger. With regards to the laughing at the Photoshop manipulated photo, they misfired one missile out of one hundred and twenty. Media picked out the single one misfired.

If a war does come about with Iran. Do not expect Iraqi responses. Iran is not Iraq. They have missiles aimed at American bases in Egypt, Jordan, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Yemen, Qatar, Bahrain, Oman, and the UAE, and most certainly at Israel.

Time will tell, but for those who think the Iranian missile program is a paper tiger, they might well be surprised in the future. There is nothing on the table for attack until 2015 and American troops are out of the middle east.

No war whilst America has over two hundred thousand armed forces and their support personal in the arena. Unless they start it.

As well, Iran has stated they have modified this missile and the range is of ~2500 km targeted.

This means ~3,000km non targeted delivery, and these missiles are capable of dealing out fissionable warheads.

You have to give a to the right on how hard they work to impress the world with Iran's "military might". There are endless lists of weapons attributed to the Iranians.

List of military equipment manufactured in Iran

But what do the Iranians say? Watch these. The one from Fox is the funniest.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTIoezhRS3g&feature[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jUnGLFGpX_s&feature=related[/ame]

Somehow, the entire Iranian nuclear program was brought down with a computer virus.

Iranians have been working for years trying to "enrich uranium". It has to be around 99% pure to work in a bomb. So far, they have it about the same as a the x-ray you get from a "doctor's visit".

Religion and science don't mix. It's why Iranians and Republicans don't do well with "data" and "science". It's just the way it is.

The only threat from Iran is not what they discover, but what they "buy".

 

[hipeter924]

It kind of sounds like you're trying to get me laid...



If you're not a Muslim then you aren't breaking any rules.

Of course I am, just by existing.

You aren't important enough for anyone to want to kill you; you can come down from that cross now.

Pft. Infidels.

Pft. Muslims.

As bad as European's.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GOHaXKv_hE&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwAtNILh6uY&feature=related[/ame]

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JwAtNILh6uY&feature=related[/ame]

 

[Philobeado]

BOGOTA, COLOMBIA -

Russia delivered at least 1,800 shoulder-fired antiaircraft missiles to Venezuela in 2009, U.N. arms control data show, despite vigorous U.S. efforts to stop President Hugo Chavez's stridently anti-American government from acquiring the weapons.

Venezuela acquires 1,800 antiaircraft missiles from Russia

 

[hortysir]

It appears to be over 1500KM from the USA to VZ.

Which puts us just out of range of the furthest reaching missile.
But if these are the missiles being admitted to, how many are slipping under the radar??

Assuming this OPED is true, which is a stretch, why is war the first answer or even a consideration?

In fact, why do we have to resort to violence?

For fuck's sake, I'll never get why people in this country are so paranoid.

It's like the biggest kid on the block being scared of his own shadow.

Hopefully, the guy running the show now will show some frigging common sense before launching another fucked up "preventive war".

Why is so out of the norm to react to MISSILES with violence?
The silos aren't being loaded for a friendly game of backgammon.

 

[Kalam]

There are some soldiers who have done this. It is not on order though. But all you are looking for is an Zionist indictment isn't it?

There are many who have done it and it has been a Zionist practice for a number of years. I'm looking for some semblance of honesty from supporters of Zionism and most of what you post is, as I've said, amateurish propaganda.

Will you acknowledge the Arabians who call themselves Palestinians use their young as shields also?

I've never denied it. Don't forget that you're the one who lied about this practice, as usual.

 

[Kalam]

The link lists EVERY Israeli killed...

...Which is precisely why it's useless. We're discussing civilian deaths only.

So you're unable to do simple math, that would explain alot.

Are you unable to do a simple Google search for civilian statistics?