Ireland's Nazi Connection

[MJB12741]

A little know piece of documented Middle East history is Ireland's Nazi connection during WWll.

Ireland 'welcomed Hitler's henchmen' - Telegraph

 

[Fishlore]

Centuries of exploitation and oppression by the British engendered such deep hatred among some (a small minority) of Irish that, carrying the maxim "my enemy's enemy is my friend" to an irrational extreme, they gave support to a Nazi government that was not in the best interests of the Irish, the British, or anyone else. Pain makes people do crazy things sometimes.

Recalling the behavior of the deValera government ought to help clarify our understanding of the similarly intractable problem of the the Palestinians and the Israelis. I would be careful about hasty analogies between Sinn Fein and Hamas etc., but at the same time it is worth considering that parallels in stature between the protagonists in both conflicts. Particularly instructive is the way in which the two-state solution negotiated between Eire and Great Britain, now almost a century ago, did not put an end to conflict over disputed territory and the use of extra-legal violence. That is very much what we can expect if a two-state solution along the lines favored by Likud is implemented under pressure by the USA.

What will resolve the conflict then? There is no quick solution but the history of the IRA shows clearly that as Irish incomes in the south have risen to approximate those of Protestants in the north, the opportunity for rational dialogue and political compromise has increased dramatically.

One might say that the takeaway from the Irish Troubles is that (1) there is no military solution, (2) no diplomatic solution or treaty signing can, by itself, eliminate the underlying causes of the conflict, and (3) education, prosperity and a growing middle class are the economic forces which are necessary to make any political solution work.

Hurrah for the Irish! Hurrah for the Palestinians! Here's a cheer for oppressed people everywhere!

 

[NoNukes]

Centuries of exploitation and oppression by the British engendered such deep hatred among some (a small minority) of Irish that, carrying the maxim "my enemy's enemy is my friend" to an irrational extreme, they gave support to a Nazi government that was not in the best interests of the Irish, the British, or anyone else. Pain makes people do crazy things sometimes.

Recalling the behavior of the deValera government ought to help clarify our understanding of the similarly intractable problem of the the Palestinians and the Israelis. I would be careful about hasty analogies between Sinn Fein and Hamas etc., but at the same time it is worth considering that parallels in stature between the protagonists in both conflicts. Particularly instructive is the way in which the two-state solution negotiated between Eire and Great Britain, now almost a century ago, did not put an end to conflict over disputed territory and the use of extra-legal violence. That is very much what we can expect if a two-state solution along the lines favored by Likud is implemented under pressure by the USA.

What will resolve the conflict then? There is no quick solution but the history of the IRA shows clearly that as Irish incomes in the south have risen to approximate those of Protestants in the north, the opportunity for rational dialogue and political compromise has increased dramatically.

One might say that the takeaway from the Irish Troubles is that (1) there is no military solution, (2) no diplomatic solution or treaty signing can, by itself, eliminate the underlying causes of the conflict, and (3) education, prosperity and a growing middle class are the economic forces which are necessary to make any political solution work.

Hurrah for the Irish! Hurrah for the Palestinians! Here's a cheer for oppressed people everywhere!

It must be remembered that, like the Swiss, the Irish were a neutral country.

 

[NoNukes]

During WWII there was a laundry in Dublin that had a swastika as its' emblem, but it had nothing to do with the Nazis. They had enough sense to take their advertising flag down.

 

[irosie91]

I am not all that surprised and see NO REASON at all to RESORT to the
"its because of british oppression" arguement. I have frequently described
the nazi village in which I grew up. ----the core population being --rural
type people with background in the British Isles, (ie including ireland)
and germany. Lineage something like that which sherri describes
for herself. They were largely descended from people who immigrated
to america as farm folk ------even before the revolutionary war. The town
was CLASSICALLY "restricted" (no jews, no blacks) until the 1950s
when the "baby boom" families made the building and selling of houses
on former farm land HIGHLY PROFITABLE----and the people with VA
MORTGAGE RIGHTS (like my dad) very desirable customers (well----
as it turned out he was also desirable because he was white----but who knew?)

In that town the remotely irish, scots, englanders, and germans did not NEED
british oppresson in order to be nazis. I was reading HARDCORE nazi propaganda
which was scattered about town----when I was ten years old. Later on I
realized ---lots of it came from escaped war criminals----HOWEVER that Ireland
hosted such people is actually news to me. I knew of those who were hosted
by Egypt and Syria ----it is news to me but not particularly 'shocking'-----
well----a little disappointing

 

[patrickcaturday]

This has absolutly nothing to do with the Israeli/Palestinian conflict and has nothing to do with this board. The same could be said , although with less justification, for the 150,000 Jews that fought in Hitler's Nazi Armies during WWII. Also why don't you bring up the 160,00 to 175,000 Irish who fought in the British Armies against Hitler during WWII, not to mention the millions of Irish Americans who fought Hitler.

 

[toastman]

This has absolutly nothing to do with the Israeli/Palestinian conflict and has nothing to do with this board. The same could be said , although with less justification, for the 150,000 Jews that fought in Hitler's Nazi Armies during WWII. Also why don't you bring up the 160,00 to 175,000 Irish who fought in the British Armies against Hitler during WWII, not to mention the millions of Irish Americans who fought Hitler.

EVERYBODY who fought Hitler, including the Irish, are heroes to me. I appreciate more than I can tell you Patrick that your people fought against the Nazi Regime, even if they didnt have to

 

[patrickcaturday]

A little know piece of documented Middle East history is Ireland's Nazi connection during WWll.

Ireland 'welcomed Hitler's henchmen' - Telegraph

Being familiar with your logic nothing that you say surprises me anymore, however it does bore me. You do surprise me this time and puzzle me , HOW IN THE WORLD IS THIS MIDDLE EASTERN HISTORY.

 

[Roudy]

A little know piece of documented Middle East history is Ireland's Nazi connection during WWll.

Ireland 'welcomed Hitler's henchmen' - Telegraph

Winston Churchill had plans to invade Ireland in Second World War --- Unionist leader believed De Valera was pro Hitler

Read more: Winston Churchill had plans to invade Ireland in Second World War --- Unionist leader believed De Valera was pro Hitler | Periscope Niall O'Dowd | IrishCentral
Follow us: @IrishCentral on Twitter | IrishCentral on Facebook

 

[irosie91]

Oh gosh-----I am getting sick-----St Patrick's day is my fave holiday

la la la ---O' paddy dear and did ya' hear the news thats goin' round
THE BRITSH (damned limeys) HA' FORBID BY LAW THE WEARIN' O'
THE GREEEN !!!! la la la la

 

[Swagger]

Many countries in Europe harboured fugitive Nazis because their expertise was instrumental in tipping the scales of the Cold War arms race in the West's favour. Look at America. They gave immunity to nearly all the Nazi scientists, technicians and researchers who developed the Doodlebugs at Peenemünde.

Say what you like about the Nazis, but the cold, hard truth is that they were a lot closer to developing atomic weapons than the Allies were. And Allied powers deliberately turned a blind eye to their crimes so that they could profit from their knowledge and expertise.

Though don't get me wong. The Catholic Church, vis-a-vis the Rep. of Ireland, probably harboured Nazi fugitives out of spite.

 

[Sunni Man]

20 Jews won the Iron Cross while serving in the German Army.

There was an estimated 150,000 jews who served in the German military.

 

[sealadaigh]

i have absolutely no idea why a jewish poster, a ewish american poster no less. would choose to sling mud at the irish. (well, i do have an idea, but that is beside the point). the only result is that there will be a response that compares the two ethnicities.

how about this, seeing as how we are talking about war and the irish...

ireland, a country with less population than that of the jewish people in america, has produced 258 united states o america congressional medal of honor recipients. lets be clear. these are 258 mmen who left their native contry and received the highest military honor awarded by ntheir adopted country.

how many native born jewish americans, and remembering that their numbers exceed that of the irish population, have been awarded the medal of honor? it is under twenty, i am almost sure.

col jack jacobs is probably the bravest living american.
john lee levitow was a roman catholic.

 

[ThirdTerm]

Newly-discovered archive documents show how the US was worried that Ireland would become a haven for war criminals and believed our position of neutrality had jeopardised the war effort. In a letter to de Valera in 1944 the then US Representative in Ireland, David Gray, demanded that Ireland refuse entry to any Nazi war criminals who sought refuge here. But de Valera, who didn't get on with Gray, was furious and saw the demands as America trying to tamper with Ireland's new sovereignty. "Because de Valera had been challenged on that very issue of asylum he would ensure that post-war asylum policy would be handled by the Irish Government and not dictated by any other power," says Professor Dan Leach of the University of Melbourne. Prof Brian Girvan says that de Valera was well aware of the extermination of Jews by Nazis during the war but still identified with Hitler's army. "He saw the Nazi regime as a nationalist regime that represented the German people to a certain extent. His stance doesn't make him pro-Nazi but he was very narrow in his focus on them. There was also, in Ireland, a scepticism about the right of the Allies to accuse anyone of being a war criminal. And so it was that if someone did arrive in Ireland the Irish government wouldn't arrest and expel them from the country."

http://www.independent.ie/opinion/analysis/how-devs-ireland-became-safe-haven-for-fugitive-nazis-26443045.html

 

[Wiseacre]

Do not post views about the Israelis or Muslims in the ME in this thread. Keep that stuff in the I&P please. This thread is that close to being moved to the Badlands; if you don't want to talk about Ireland and the Nazis then do not post here..

 

[MHunterB]

"Prof Brian Girvan says that de Valera was well aware of the extermination of Jews by Nazis during the war but still identified with Hitler's army."

Rather boggles the mind, doesn't it?

 

[Sunni Man]

Operation Green (German: Unternehmen Grün) often also referred to as Case Green (Fall Grün) or Plan Green (Plan Grün), was a full scale operations plan for a German invasion of Ireland in support of Operation Sea Lion (Unternehmen Seelöwe). Despite its detailed nature, Green is thought to have been designed only as a credible threat, a feint, not an actual operation. Plan W, a planned occupation of all of the Irish Free State by British forces, was drafted by the British military in secret liaison with the Irish government to counteract any German invasion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Green_(Ireland)

 

[sealadaigh]

Newly-discovered archive documents show how the US was worried that Ireland would become a haven for war criminals and believed our position of neutrality had jeopardised the war effort. In a letter to de Valera in 1944 the then US Representative in Ireland, David Gray, demanded that Ireland refuse entry to any Nazi war criminals who sought refuge here. But de Valera, who didn't get on with Gray, was furious and saw the demands as America trying to tamper with Ireland's new sovereignty. "Because de Valera had been challenged on that very issue of asylum he would ensure that post-war asylum policy would be handled by the Irish Government and not dictated by any other power," says Professor Dan Leach of the University of Melbourne. Prof Brian Girvan says that de Valera was well aware of the extermination of Jews by Nazis during the war but still identified with Hitler's army. "He saw the Nazi regime as a nationalist regime that represented the German people to a certain extent. His stance doesn't make him pro-Nazi but he was very narrow in his focus on them. There was also, in Ireland, a scepticism about the right of the Allies to accuse anyone of being a war criminal. And so it was that if someone did arrive in Ireland the Irish government wouldn't arrest and expel them from the country."

How Dev's Ireland became safe haven for fugitive Nazis - Independent.ie

churchill wanted control ot ireland's ports and that just wasn't going to happen, and as the song goes "englaand's foe is ireland's friend.

i wouldn't go so far as to say ireland or dev welcomed the nazis but they certainly had a very good reason to be neutral. just a couple of decades earlier it was british guns in the hands of the free staters that were killing republicaan volunteers from rathlin island to bantry bay.

god bless the keen eye and steady hand of sonny o'neill.

 

[sealadaigh]

"Prof Brian Girvan says that de Valera was well aware of the extermination of Jews by Nazis during the war but still identified with Hitler's army."

Rather boggles the mind, doesn't it?

it really does. what really baffles me is whenever you ask "why didn't the jews resist the nazis as they were being taken to their certain death?" the answer is "they didn't know they were being taken to their death." it was occuring right in their own back yard. and yet, all these other people tousands of miles away are supposed to be privy to knowledge of these death camps prior even to their existence, such as pius XII in the early 30s and dev in the late thirties. and during all this, right up to the liberation of the camps, allied intelligence was not even aware of their magnitude. eisenhower was shocked. but you know, whoever you can point the finger at. point it at enough people other than hitleer and you will almost make the NAZIs seem benevolent.

ireland was neutral, got it? world war II was about much more than the jews. they were bit players in the whole thing.

ya know, i could make comments about european jews making money hand over fist with laissez faire capitalism in the mid 1800s and disraeli's opposition to to repealing the corn laws that resulted in the starvation of the irish people as food was exported from their country.

the jews have never done anything for the irish...well, except for robert briscoe, lord mayor, gun runner for oglaigh na hEireann, and confidant and army council member of the adorementioned and alleged nazi sympathiser, eamon devalera.

thank you very much.

 

[sealadaigh]

Operation Green (German: Unternehmen Grün) often also referred to as Case Green (Fall Grün) or Plan Green (Plan Grün), was a full scale operations plan for a German invasion of Ireland in support of Operation Sea Lion (Unternehmen Seelöwe). Despite its detailed nature, Green is thought to have been designed only as a credible threat, a feint, not an actual operation. Plan W, a planned occupation of all of the Irish Free State by British forces, was drafted by the British military in secret liaison with the Irish government to counteract any German invasion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Green_(Ireland)

if ireland had cooperated with the NAZIs, there would not have even been a WWII. england would have fallen like a house of cards.