Is belief an intentional act?

[BreezeWood]

No, it isn't. It's just building on what came before. I know you want to believe that, but it just isn't true. We are no smarter than we were 5,000 years ago. Thinking we are is just more wishful thinking. Just more belief.

the intelligence is the same as the first cellular beings ...

 

[diver52]

What some are you talking about?

Well, you can look up summaries and writings on contemporary studies mostly based on IQ, like this one: How We Know That Humans Are Getting Smarter [Excerpt]

Also, you can look at writings on how the human mind has seemed to move from bicameralism to a more unilateral state of consciousness.

IQ tests are recent and evolution doesn't work that fast. If you look at society, there really isn't any indication that we have gotten any smarter. We do adapt to changing technology - but we always have.

 

[diver52]

We are no smarter than we were 5,000 years ago.

You simply do not know the truth of that.

I see no evidence to support another opinion. Of course, this is where belief comes in.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

IQ tests are recent and evolution doesn't work that fast.

Well, see, that's what we used to think. While evolution still may and does move very slowly in cases, its also may happen very quickly over just a few generations, due to experiences, not the normal drivers of evolution. We used to dismiss this as LaMarckian. But epigenetics has thrown biology for a loop.

Appearance of language and arithmetic may have been watershed moments that brought such wpigenetic pressure on our brains. The sientific enlightenment may he another. Still another: cities.


I say maybe, which also means, maybe not.

One quirky thing about epogenetics: convergence. Two isolated populations would presumably respond similarly to an epigenetic pressure. It would be an interesting experiment to test this with isolated, aboroginal tribes.

 

[Kilroy2]

Well I am sure a lot of people as kids believe in Santa Claus but hey eventually you move on from it.

People belief that there spouse is faithful until that Opps wrong door moment

There are lots of belief that do change over time

Belief generally is what you are told and if there is empirical data or personal observation to support that then beliefs become stronger, life is a bowl of cherries but just got to watch out for the bad ones

obviously the question about God is one that requires faith

Beliefs come and go and do change, people even change religions

 

[diver52]

IQ tests are recent and evolution doesn't work that fast.

Well, see, that's what we used to think. While evolution still may and does move very slowly in cases, its also may happen very quickly over just a few generations, due to experiences, not the normal drivers of evolution. We used to dismiss this as LaMarckian. But epigenetics has thrown biology for a loop.

Appearance of language and arithmetic may have been watershed moments that brought such wpigenetic pressure on our brains. The sientific enlightenment may he another. Still another: cities.


I say maybe, which also means, maybe not.

One quirky thing about epogenetics: convergence. Two isolated populations would presumably respond similarly to an epigenetic pressure. It would be an interesting experiment to test this with isolated, aboroginal tribes.

Nonetheless, the test is too new to be of value. For that matter, we haven't even defined what is supposedly changing. Height is a physical trait which can be measured with a ruler. Tell me what smart is.

 

[Taz]

We've sent people to the fucking moon, and we're not smarter than thousands of years ago when our biggest achievement was the wheel? You must not believe in evolution, would you like me to PROVE it to you?

No. We are not smarter, nor was the wheel a small thing. You think making a flint arrow point doesn't require smarts? Go ahead and try to make one. You stand on the shoulders of a thousand generations who came up with all of the innovations that you take for granted and think you're smarter? Please.

I do note your attempt to put me in a little box with a label on it. Also not smart.

What I'm saying is that through time, humans are getting smarter. It's called evolution. We used to think that everything in the sky revolved around the earth, as time when on and we got smarter as a species, we figured things out... So yes, we are way smarter now. We're taller as well than they were 2000 years ago, just look at their clothes. That's also evolution.

There is no evidence that we are getting smarter. We just have better tools. If reading the posts in the political sections are any measure, we are more likely getting dumber.

The entire god argument is made in an evidential vacuum. In that situation, the only logical conclusion that can be made also happens to be the one phrase humans seem to universally hate... "I don't know." Any conclusion other than that is pure, unsupported belief. An unsupported belief is an unsupported belief whether you agree with it or not. One unsupported belief is neither superior nor inferior to another. They are all blind guesses. But we, as a species, don't like that so we make connections (invalid connections) to justify our own blind guesses. At the same time we define "smart" as anyone who agrees with my blind guess.

No, evolution actually exists. Getting better tools, as you call, is simply a form of getting smarter about making tools. it's measurable, just like humans are getting taller through time, which you can see by looking at houses and clothes from hundreds of years ago, which are all smaller than they are now.

No, it isn't. It's just building on what came before. I know you want to believe that, but it just isn't true. We are no smarter than we were 5,000 years ago. Thinking we are is just more wishful thinking. Just more belief.

5,000 years ago we hadn't even come up with toilet paper. But you think that they were Einsteins. It's a fact that we are getting taller over time, so our brains are becoming bigger as well.

 

[diver52]

No. We are not smarter, nor was the wheel a small thing. You think making a flint arrow point doesn't require smarts? Go ahead and try to make one. You stand on the shoulders of a thousand generations who came up with all of the innovations that you take for granted and think you're smarter? Please.

I do note your attempt to put me in a little box with a label on it. Also not smart.

What I'm saying is that through time, humans are getting smarter. It's called evolution. We used to think that everything in the sky revolved around the earth, as time when on and we got smarter as a species, we figured things out... So yes, we are way smarter now. We're taller as well than they were 2000 years ago, just look at their clothes. That's also evolution.

There is no evidence that we are getting smarter. We just have better tools. If reading the posts in the political sections are any measure, we are more likely getting dumber.

The entire god argument is made in an evidential vacuum. In that situation, the only logical conclusion that can be made also happens to be the one phrase humans seem to universally hate... "I don't know." Any conclusion other than that is pure, unsupported belief. An unsupported belief is an unsupported belief whether you agree with it or not. One unsupported belief is neither superior nor inferior to another. They are all blind guesses. But we, as a species, don't like that so we make connections (invalid connections) to justify our own blind guesses. At the same time we define "smart" as anyone who agrees with my blind guess.

No, evolution actually exists. Getting better tools, as you call, is simply a form of getting smarter about making tools. it's measurable, just like humans are getting taller through time, which you can see by looking at houses and clothes from hundreds of years ago, which are all smaller than they are now.

No, it isn't. It's just building on what came before. I know you want to believe that, but it just isn't true. We are no smarter than we were 5,000 years ago. Thinking we are is just more wishful thinking. Just more belief.

5,000 years ago we hadn't even come up with toilet paper. But you think that they were Einsteins. It's a fact that we are getting taller over time, so our brains are becoming bigger as well.

First, toilet paper really isn't a standard for intelligence.
Second, I have let the height thing go because it wasn't really the point. We are not getting taller because of evolution. We got taller because of better nutrition in children and that is pretty much topping off.
Third, our brains are not getting bigger.

 

[Taz]

What I'm saying is that through time, humans are getting smarter. It's called evolution. We used to think that everything in the sky revolved around the earth, as time when on and we got smarter as a species, we figured things out... So yes, we are way smarter now. We're taller as well than they were 2000 years ago, just look at their clothes. That's also evolution.

There is no evidence that we are getting smarter. We just have better tools. If reading the posts in the political sections are any measure, we are more likely getting dumber.

The entire god argument is made in an evidential vacuum. In that situation, the only logical conclusion that can be made also happens to be the one phrase humans seem to universally hate... "I don't know." Any conclusion other than that is pure, unsupported belief. An unsupported belief is an unsupported belief whether you agree with it or not. One unsupported belief is neither superior nor inferior to another. They are all blind guesses. But we, as a species, don't like that so we make connections (invalid connections) to justify our own blind guesses. At the same time we define "smart" as anyone who agrees with my blind guess.

No, evolution actually exists. Getting better tools, as you call, is simply a form of getting smarter about making tools. it's measurable, just like humans are getting taller through time, which you can see by looking at houses and clothes from hundreds of years ago, which are all smaller than they are now.

No, it isn't. It's just building on what came before. I know you want to believe that, but it just isn't true. We are no smarter than we were 5,000 years ago. Thinking we are is just more wishful thinking. Just more belief.

5,000 years ago we hadn't even come up with toilet paper. But you think that they were Einsteins. It's a fact that we are getting taller over time, so our brains are becoming bigger as well.

First, toilet paper really isn't a standard for intelligence.
Second, I have let the height thing go because it wasn't really the point. We are not getting taller because of evolution. We got taller because of better nutrition in children and that is pretty much topping off.
Third, our brains are not getting bigger.

You don't need to take my word for it.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-has-human-brain-evolved/

 

[BreezeWood]

Tell me what smart is.

in your case, purely rhetorical.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Nonetheless, the test is too new to be of value.

No it isn't. If it shows what it shows over 100 years, then it ahows what it shows. It casts doubt on your aitboritative claim made with absolute certainty (thpugh you could not possibly know the certainty, but made the assertion anyway) that we are no smarter than 5000 years ago.

I say the jury is out. That is the correct position to take .

Another error you are making: "Tell me what smart is.."

Excuse me, but you are the one who made the absolute assertion that we are no smarter than 5000 years ago. As such, it is YOUR burden to tell us what "smart" is.

 

[diver52]

Nonetheless, the test is too new to be of value.

No it isn't. If it shows what it shows over 100 years, then it ahows what it shows. It casts doubt on your aitboritative claim made with absolute certainty (thpugh you could not possibly know the certainty, but made the assertion anyway) that we are no smarter than 5000 years ago.

I say the jury is out. That is the correct position to take .

Another error you are making: "Tell me what smart is.."

Excuse me, but you are the one who made the absolute assertion that we are no smarter than 5000 years ago. As such, it is YOUR burden to tell us what "smart" is.

Actually, I'm the one who disputed the claim that we are getting smarter and my claim was there was no evidence to show we were. My own definition of smart was the ability to act in a manner conducive to survival. Of course, we are talking about the species here, so that has to be applied across the board. Do you want to go with my definition or would you prefer another?

 

[diver52]

There is no evidence that we are getting smarter. We just have better tools. If reading the posts in the political sections are any measure, we are more likely getting dumber.

The entire god argument is made in an evidential vacuum. In that situation, the only logical conclusion that can be made also happens to be the one phrase humans seem to universally hate... "I don't know." Any conclusion other than that is pure, unsupported belief. An unsupported belief is an unsupported belief whether you agree with it or not. One unsupported belief is neither superior nor inferior to another. They are all blind guesses. But we, as a species, don't like that so we make connections (invalid connections) to justify our own blind guesses. At the same time we define "smart" as anyone who agrees with my blind guess.

No, evolution actually exists. Getting better tools, as you call, is simply a form of getting smarter about making tools. it's measurable, just like humans are getting taller through time, which you can see by looking at houses and clothes from hundreds of years ago, which are all smaller than they are now.

No, it isn't. It's just building on what came before. I know you want to believe that, but it just isn't true. We are no smarter than we were 5,000 years ago. Thinking we are is just more wishful thinking. Just more belief.

5,000 years ago we hadn't even come up with toilet paper. But you think that they were Einsteins. It's a fact that we are getting taller over time, so our brains are becoming bigger as well.

First, toilet paper really isn't a standard for intelligence.
Second, I have let the height thing go because it wasn't really the point. We are not getting taller because of evolution. We got taller because of better nutrition in children and that is pretty much topping off.
Third, our brains are not getting bigger.

You don't need to take my word for it.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-has-human-brain-evolved/

Amazing. Did you bother to read it? Pay particular attention to the last paragraph.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Actually, I'm the one who disputed the claim that we are getting smarter and my claim was there was no evidence to show we were.

And I claim there may, indeed, be some. You rejected it a priori on shaky grounds, as i argued.

I quote you: "We are no smarter than we were 5,000 years ago."

Maybe. Maybe not.

What evidence would compel you to believe that we likely ARE smarter than we were 5,000 years ago?

 

[Taz]

No, evolution actually exists. Getting better tools, as you call, is simply a form of getting smarter about making tools. it's measurable, just like humans are getting taller through time, which you can see by looking at houses and clothes from hundreds of years ago, which are all smaller than they are now.

No, it isn't. It's just building on what came before. I know you want to believe that, but it just isn't true. We are no smarter than we were 5,000 years ago. Thinking we are is just more wishful thinking. Just more belief.

5,000 years ago we hadn't even come up with toilet paper. But you think that they were Einsteins. It's a fact that we are getting taller over time, so our brains are becoming bigger as well.

First, toilet paper really isn't a standard for intelligence.
Second, I have let the height thing go because it wasn't really the point. We are not getting taller because of evolution. We got taller because of better nutrition in children and that is pretty much topping off.
Third, our brains are not getting bigger.

You don't need to take my word for it.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/how-has-human-brain-evolved/

Amazing. Did you bother to read it? Pay particular attention to the last paragraph.

So you agree that the brain evolves, that was my point. And yes, we are smarter than when we thought the earth is flat.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

And yes, we are smarter than when we thought the earth is flat.

That would not be "smarter", per se, but rather, "less ignorant".

 

[Taz]

And yes, we are smarter than when we thought the earth is flat.

That would not be "smarter", per se, but rather, "less ignorant".

Same thing.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

And yes, we are smarter than when we thought the earth is flat.

That would not be "smarter", per se, but rather, "less ignorant".

Same thing.

No, I don't think it is, nor is it what diver means.

 

[diver52]

Actually, I'm the one who disputed the claim that we are getting smarter and my claim was there was no evidence to show we were.

And I claim there may, indeed, be some. You rejected it a priori on shaky grounds, as i argued.

I quote you: "We are no smarter than we were 5,000 years ago."

Maybe. Maybe not.

What evidence would compel you to believe that we likely ARE smarter than we were 5,000 years ago?

I rejected it because I see no evidence of it. If you told me God was real I would reject that on the same basis.

As to evidence, I would want to see a change in behavior. What about human interaction now is different from 5,000 years ago? Are we less violent, less willing to steal from each other, less willing to hate for no reason other than myth? Technology is just stuff. How are we different?

 

[diver52]

No, it isn't. It's just building on what came before. I know you want to believe that, but it just isn't true. We are no smarter than we were 5,000 years ago. Thinking we are is just more wishful thinking. Just more belief.

5,000 years ago we hadn't even come up with toilet paper. But you think that they were Einsteins. It's a fact that we are getting taller over time, so our brains are becoming bigger as well.

First, toilet paper really isn't a standard for intelligence.
Second, I have let the height thing go because it wasn't really the point. We are not getting taller because of evolution. We got taller because of better nutrition in children and that is pretty much topping off.
Third, our brains are not getting bigger.

You don't need to take my word for it.
How Has the Human Brain Evolved?

Amazing. Did you bother to read it? Pay particular attention to the last paragraph.

So you agree that the brain evolves, that was my point. And yes, we are smarter than when we thought the earth is flat.

Of course the brain evolves. What you said was the brain was getting bigger, I suppose suggesting that would make us smarter. The article actually stated our brain has gotten smaller over the last 100,000 years. Another article I read said it has shrunk about 10%. That does not make us less smart, it just means it's about 10% smaller.