Is Obama Really this Stupid?

[logical4u]

But their employer is the Catholic Church - and birth control is against our religion - particularly abortion - which is abhorrent to us. It is, to Catholics, murder.

not everything owned and run by the catholic church is a religious endeavor. my suggestion on this one would be some compromise. i think the intentions here were good, not "stupid".

I agree that many things run by the church are not religious, other than in a moral sense-Catholicism isn't being taught. Indeed, the very idea of 'social justice' is to care for those in need, without imposing anything other than care.

The logic behind Obama's requirement is that Catholic institutions and services provided by them should be restricted to Catholics. I agree with those that say then they should lose whatever funding comes from government. Granted, all those outlets that cannot be supported by Catholics alone will need to be shut down.

It is funny, that the same people screaming that health care should be "provided for" others as a "right" want to shut down one of the very few institutions that volunteers to "give healthcare" to those that cannot afford it. I thought the outcome justified the means. Now it appears you just can't give the liberals/socialists/progressives/homosexual activists/environmentalists/islamists/communists what they want, you have to give them what they in a pre-approved rigid method.

 

[logical4u]

The law is that catholic health care facilities with a majority of NON-catholic employees have to offer the option.

OR...the catholic healthcare facilities can do as they please - without any government funding.

So they have freedom of choice. They don't have to offer birth control.

Maybe they should stop offering medical insurance, that will place all those workers on the taxpayers' shoulders... isn't that what the President wants?

 

[logical4u]

Ummmm... please explain this part? I know that China had mandated abortions.... but "enlighten" me on the other two. Nevermind...Googled it....

Here's the difference, slick....

China Mandated Abortion.

Nazi Germany felt that a woman's body belonged to the state and the state would decide on the fate of her pregnancy.

Stalin? You may want to read up on him...He banned abortion because he wanted to stimulate the population...after his death in 1955, the USSR lifted the ban.

The one thing all three of those countries had in common....a lack of choice....something that the Conservative viewpoint has more in common than the progressive's pro-choice viewpoint.

Yea , choice.....that is unless you are the unborn human........they have no choice.

Yeah.... that's true. However, when you consider your side's "plan to ban"....well..that gives no one a choice...which is much more like Nazi Germany, the USSR and Communist China than simply allowing people to make their own decisions.

"your side" is the one that is trying to "force" people to follow laws that are against the Constitution. The dictators in Nazi Germany, the USSR, and Communist China all, used methods to "control" the population of "undesirables". The only differnce: "your side" has been brain washing children for decades that children are unwanted and not needed. They are committing long term suicide by murdering the next generation of their culture and importing other cultures that want this country and its' culture, destroyed. When families are gone, don't you think that "pill" from Obama care will come just as soon as you start collecting from the programs that you paid into all your adult life?

 

[logical4u]

Yeah.... that's true. However, when you consider your side's "plan to ban"....well..that gives no one a choice...which is much more like Nazi Germany, the USSR and Communist China than simply allowing people to make their own decisions.

Who should have a big say in that choice? The life that cannot defend itself and loses everything, or the life that uses it as a form of birth control?

The life that's in control of the decision. When you have to carry around an unwanted fetus around for 9 months, forced into painful childbirth and take care of it for 18 years. You can have a say... until then? STFU.

I know, I know... personal responsibility. Making that choice whether to keep or abort a fetus IS personal responsibility. Taking that choice away is Legislating morality. God gave us free will so that we can make our own choices, you do know this right?

Like I said...If anyone came to me for advice on this subject, I would urge them not to have an abortion. But this is a free country with real choices(and consequences). You want to skip through all of that and make that choice for other people that you have no idea who they are or what their life is like. That makes YOU an oppressor...no better than Stalin, Mao, or Hitler...at least on this particular subject.

"You" have much more in common with those people. They too, could make murder seem perfectly reasonable.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

It's not: Is Obama really this stupid?

It should be: who besides the most diehard Obama Fluffer would even consider voting for him again?

 

[logical4u]

Probability suggest that many more Dahmers were aborted than any of the above. People are generally a product of their environment...Being unwanted and unloved is not conducive to greatness.

Like I said earlier though... it's by no means an absolute, but generally speaking people who were born into bad environments tend to be a product of that environment. Some escape that environment and do well for themselves, but the vast majority of them don't.

You may be right but I am unwilling to take that risk. The vast majority of people have at least some positive effect on those around them.
Most of us have someone back in their bloodline that was a monster the world would have been better off without.

True... very true... But that's not your choice to make, furthermore... the elimination of that choice is not something that a free society should be doing. Make no mistake. I do not condone abortion...I am just not one to force my opinions upon others and make them bend to it.

That's where you guys are wrong. Trying to legislate morality is what is happening in the Middle East with their Sharia Law bullshit. Is this really the direction we want to be heading?

Why is Obama "legislating" IMMORALITY? Is that really the direction we want to be heading?

 

[Intense]

In a Free Society One Cannot Dictate Matters of Conscience.

 

[The T]

In a Free Society One Cannot Dictate Matters of Conscience.

Gubmint would force the point upon you rather than debate it.

 

[Ravi]

In a Free Society One Cannot Dictate Matters of Conscience.

So why does the Church want to dictate their employees sex lives?

 

[bigrebnc1775]

In a Free Society One Cannot Dictate Matters of Conscience.

So why does the Church want to dictate their employees sex lives?

The Church is manged through Bible or Gods word. You could call it the employee's manual. You want to work for that Company it's their way or the highway. Look it up in the company hand book.

 

[JoeB131]

In a Free Society One Cannot Dictate Matters of Conscience.

So why does the Church want to dictate their employees sex lives?

The Church is manged through Bible or Gods word. You could call it the employee's manual. You want to work for that Company it's their way or the highway. Look it up in the company hand book.

So, um, it's in the "employee's manual" that women should be stoned if they are not virgins on their wedding day.

If any man take a wife, and go in unto her, and hate her, And give occasions of speech against her, and bring up an evil name upon her, and say, I took this woman, and when I came to her, I found her not a maid: Then shall the father of the damsel, and her mother, take and bring forth the tokens of the damsel's virginity unto the elders of the city in the gate.... But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel: Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you. -- Deuteronomy 22:13

So, man, I think the Catholic Church needs to go all out, man. Not this wussy shit about making sure that they aren't paying for their employees' rubbers. No way, they need to take them female employees out and stone their asses, just like it says in the book!

Oh, no. Wait. That would be fucking retarded.

Fact of the matter is, the bible doesn't say a thing about birth control or abortion.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

So why does the Church want to dictate their employees sex lives?

The Church is manged through Bible or Gods word. You could call it the employee's manual. You want to work for that Company it's their way or the highway. Look it up in the company hand book.

So, um, it's in the "employee's manual" that women should be stoned if they are not virgins on their wedding day.

If any man take a wife, and go in unto her, and hate her, And give occasions of speech against her, and bring up an evil name upon her, and say, I took this woman, and when I came to her, I found her not a maid: Then shall the father of the damsel, and her mother, take and bring forth the tokens of the damsel's virginity unto the elders of the city in the gate.... But if this thing be true, and the tokens of virginity be not found for the damsel: Then they shall bring out the damsel to the door of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her with stones that she die: because she hath wrought folly in Israel, to play the whore in her father's house: so shalt thou put evil away from among you. -- Deuteronomy 22:13

So, man, I think the Catholic Church needs to go all out, man. Not this wussy shit about making sure that they aren't paying for their employees' rubbers. No way, they need to take them female employees out and stone their asses, just like it says in the book!

Oh, no. Wait. That would be fucking retarded.

Fact of the matter is, the bible doesn't say a thing about birth control or abortion.

There wasn't any christian church when women were being stoned for not being a virgin. The Christian church is managed by the New Testament.The rules for the church can be found in the New Testament.

 

[JoeB131]

Ooooooh, I love this one. "That's the OLD TESTAMENT".

Come on, guy, you can do better than that.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Ooooooh, I love this one. "That's the OLD TESTAMENT".

Come on, guy, you can do better than that.

Is there a Christian Church mentioned in the old Testament?

That's just like the time when you posted there's nothing in the bible about birth control
there no Christian church mentioned in the old testament.

according to Christians there were two Covenants The first was between God and the Jew and the second was when Jesus came, and was between God and all people.

 

[JoeB131]

Ooooooh, I love this one. "That's the OLD TESTAMENT".

Come on, guy, you can do better than that.

Is there a Christian Church mentioned in the old Testament?

That's just like the time when you posted there's nothing in the bible about birth control
there no Christian church mentioned in the old testament.

according to Christians there were two Covenants The first was between God and the Jew and the second was when Jesus came, and was between God and all people.

Well, yeah, Christians find all sorts of way to rationalize their bullshit, but the fact is, when you take out the religious bullshit, there really isn't any excuse for what the Church is doing.

 

[Steelplate]

Real Simple... Catholic based Hospitals don't want to take part in the AHA? Fine... No Federal funds...saves the taxpayers money, I guess.

Incorrect guess I'd bet. Funds not spent one place simply get funneled elsewhere other than saved or, God forbid, used to pay down debt.

Not only was Steelplate's guess that it would 'save taxpayers money' completely wrong - it is, in fact, quite the opposite. Without the Catholic Church's support through it's hospitals, it would, in reality, cost the US taxpayer at least another $5.7 billion.

Oh... hell.... what's another 5.7B? We'll just take it out of YOUR taxes, right?

You know, the truth of the matter is...I've softened my stance on this somewhat. With all the other options out there to obtain birth control, I don't see what the big deal is about letting Catholic Churches bow out of this. The people affected by this(needing birth control, but receiving care primarily through Catholic Services) can always Go to Planned Parenthood to obtain Birth Control.

Oh wait.... that's right... you wingnuts want to shut them down too, I forgot.

 

[Steelplate]

ok so obama growing up in a Muslim country would mean that his judgement calls will be for the benefit of Muslim nations. He was taught to hate America.

Go fuck yourself Bigot. Like I said earlier... If you can't win a debate, you attack Obama...This is twice in one thread you did this bullshit, so not only have you been beaten in a debate...you have been exposed as the ignorant, bigoted, hate filled douchbag you really are...

Congratulations.

and this surprises you because???

Doesn't surprise me...just think that paranoia and fear is a hell of a way to go through life...one finger on the panic button at all times...waiting....almost WISHING that finally, that other shoe will drop...just so he can say "I told you so!!!".

Sad...really sad.

 

[Steelplate]

Yes it is amazing.
You know that's not all I said
Since you left this part out I added it

Only an idiot would disagree with this comment

And Obama hates someone? Funny, you seem to be a venomous douchebag against the same guy, day in and day out, and he seems to be the one on tv interviews smiling and trying the make the best of a shitty situation. Who's the hate filled one? Your little peon life is. Message board commando away, dumbass.

Thing is I don't hate America I have never grew up in that type of environment obama has.
Was the statement made

People are generally a product of their environment

Yes or No?
A statement that you have been defending,

You must hate America. You seem to be continually rooting for it's demise and failure because you can't stand our current administration.

 

[bigrebnc1775]

Ooooooh, I love this one. "That's the OLD TESTAMENT".

Come on, guy, you can do better than that.

Is there a Christian Church mentioned in the old Testament?

That's just like the time when you posted there's nothing in the bible about birth control
there no Christian church mentioned in the old testament.

according to Christians there were two Covenants The first was between God and the Jew and the second was when Jesus came, and was between God and all people.

Well, yeah, Christians find all sorts of way to rationalize their bullshit, but the fact is, when you take out the religious bullshit, there really isn't any excuse for what the Church is doing.

That did not answer the question
Is there a Christian church mentioned in the old testament?

 

[JoeB131]

That did not answer the question
Is there a Christian church mentioned in the old testament?

Hold on, checking to see if I care...

Nope. I don't.

Point is, it's not like the New Testament got rid of all those silly laws in the Old Testement.

Nor does the Bible in EITHER testament really say anything about birth control.

It's the Church's interpretation of these things, and if that's what they want to preach to the faithful, they are free to do so.

They just can't impose it on them, even if they are paying them to do a job.