CDZ Is Slavery America's Original Sin?

[Gary Lee]

If slavery had existed for 150 years before the creation of the United States, how can it be described as our original sin? The answer is that it can't be blamed on our country unless you miraculously reset the date of its creation to 1619, when the first African slaves were sold to British colonialists in Jamestown. The principal reason for buying African slaves was their natural resistance to malaria., which was killing off the European workers in the Southern Colonies. Once purchased, they became an indispensable asset to labor intensive agriculture in those colonies.

Slavery was never popular in the Northern Colonies, and abolitionist movements began to spring up in the mid 1700s. However, resentment of the British government's authoritarian policies was also building and finally erupted into the War for Independence from Great Britain. After winning that war, the Colonies realized that their independence could not be protected unless a common government was formed. A proposed Constitution was hotly debated among the former colonies, and was ratified only after allowing the southern States to retain slavery in return for accepting joint responsibility for the war debts that had been accrued.

This compromise enabled the creation of the United States, but did not end the ever-growing abolitionist movement which culminated in the Civil War. Hundreds of thousands of Americans died in that conflagration, and it is an insult to those who died for that cause to now be accused of supporting the institution they fought against. If there is any original sin to be assigned, it was the widespread rape of African women by their slave masters. But this is not and should not be an indictment of the entire United States of America.

https://historicjamestowne.org/history/the-first-africans/

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[/QUOTE

If slavery had existed for 150 years before the creation of the United States, how can it be described as our original sin? The answer is that it can't be blamed on our country unless you miraculously reset the date of its creation to 1619, when the first African slaves were sold to British colonialists in Jamestown. The principal reason for buying African slaves was their natural resistance to malaria., which was killing off the European workers in the Southern Colonies. Once purchased, they became an indispensable asset to labor intensive agriculture in those colonies.

Slavery was never popular in the Northern Colonies, and abolitionist movements began to spring up in the mid 1700s. However, resentment of the British government's authoritarian policies was also building and finally erupted into the War for Independence from Great Britain. After winning that war, the Colonies realized that their independence could not be protected unless a common government was formed. A proposed Constitution was hotly debated among the former colonies, and was ratified only after allowing the southern States to retain slavery in return for accepting joint responsibility for the war debts that had been accrued.

This compromise enabled the creation of the United States, but did not end the ever-growing abolitionist movement which culminated in the Civil War. Hundreds of thousands of Americans died in that conflagration, and it is an insult to those who died for that cause to now be accused of supporting the institution they fought against. If there is any original sin to be assigned, it was the widespread rape of African women by their slave masters. But this is not and should not be an indictment of the entire United States of America.

https://historicjamestowne.org/history/the-first-africans/

[/QUOTE

[/

If slavery had existed for 150 years before the creation of the United States, how can it be described as our original sin? The answer is that it can't be blamed on our country unless you miraculously reset the date of its creation to 1619, when the first African slaves were sold to British colonialists in Jamestown. The principal reason for buying African slaves was their natural resistance to malaria., which was killing off the European workers in the Southern Colonies. Once purchased, they became an indispensable asset to labor intensive agriculture in those colonies.

Slavery was never popular in the Northern Colonies, and abolitionist movements began to spring up in the mid 1700s. However, resentment of the British government's authoritarian policies was also building and finally erupted into the War for Independence from Great Britain. After winning that war, the Colonies realized that their independence could not be protected unless a common government was formed. A proposed Constitution was hotly debated among the former colonies, and was ratified only after allowing the southern States to retain slavery in return for accepting joint responsibility for the war debts that had been accrued.

This compromise enabled the creation of the United States, but did not end the ever-growing abolitionist movement which culminated in the Civil War. Hundreds of thousands of Americans died in that conflagration, and it is an insult to those who died for that cause to now be accused of supporting the institution they fought against. If there is any original sin to be assigned, it was the widespread rape of African women by their slave masters. But this is not and should not be an indictment of the entire United States of America.

https://historicjamestowne.org/history/the-first-africans/

[/QUOTE

No one likes talking about the genocide of the native inhabitants that Europeans found in America ...

That's called the myth of the "Noble Warrior/Savage".

 

[Turtlesoup]

If slavery had existed for 150 years before the creation of the United States, how can it be described as our original sin? The answer is that it can't be blamed on our country unless you miraculously reset the date of its creation to 1619, when the first African slaves were sold to British colonialists in Jamestown. The principal reason for buying African slaves was their natural resistance to malaria., which was killing off the European workers in the Southern Colonies. Once purchased, they became an indispensable asset to labor intensive agriculture in those colonies.

They wanted cheap labor. Whites died in droves of malaria from Virginia south, and don't even think about the Caribbean islands. Employers would have preferred white labor --- blacks made awful slaves -- but they were at least somewhat malaria-resistant. It was hardly just the United States: slave labor was greater in South America (and look at it now) and in the islands, which eventually were mostly taken over by blacks. We gave these prime living spots to blacks ----- this was a bad move so serious that I'd say they substantially benefitted compared to the sorry state of Africa right now in 2020. Most of our troubles have come from trying to get cheap labor from foreign poor people, and not just blacks. Hispanics and Chinese, and many, many of them. And they have all brought in disease --- malaria from slaves on the Spanish ships in the 1500s, leprosy from Mexico, the big San Francisco bubonic plague epidemic brought in by Chinese in the early 1900s (and it's still in the Southwest deserts) and now the COVID from China.

Maybe our Original Sin was the craving for cheap labor. Still is, and still is causing trouble. Look at all the Muslims and Indians and Pakis we bring in for cheap labor in the tech companies, and a lot end up terrorists.

The average person doesn't benefit from this cheap labor either---it is only the super rich and politicians who profit off bringing in the poor from other nations.....these replacements force down wages for the working man/woman. The same as it always has been and continues to be but no one is supposed to notice.

 

[jwoodie]

That's called the myth of the "Noble Warrior/Savage".

Isn't it about time that we elevate the cannibals of Papua New Guinea to that status?

 

[martybegan]

If slavery had existed for 150 years before the creation of the United States, how can it be described as our original sin? The answer is that it can't be blamed on our country unless you miraculously reset the date of its creation to 1619, when the first African slaves were sold to British colonialists in Jamestown. The principal reason for buying African slaves was their natural resistance to malaria., which was killing off the European workers in the Southern Colonies. Once purchased, they became an indispensable asset to labor intensive agriculture in those colonies.

They wanted cheap labor. Whites died in droves of malaria from Virginia south, and don't even think about the Caribbean islands. Employers would have preferred white labor --- blacks made awful slaves -- but they were at least somewhat malaria-resistant. It was hardly just the United States: slave labor was greater in South America (and look at it now) and in the islands, which eventually were mostly taken over by blacks. We gave these prime living spots to blacks ----- this was a bad move so serious that I'd say they substantially benefitted compared to the sorry state of Africa right now in 2020. Most of our troubles have come from trying to get cheap labor from foreign poor people, and not just blacks. Hispanics and Chinese, and many, many of them. And they have all brought in disease --- malaria from slaves on the Spanish ships in the 1500s, leprosy from Mexico, the big San Francisco bubonic plague epidemic brought in by Chinese in the early 1900s (and it's still in the Southwest deserts) and now the COVID from China.

Maybe our Original Sin was the craving for cheap labor. Still is, and still is causing trouble. Look at all the Muslims and Indians and Pakis we bring in for cheap labor in the tech companies, and a lot end up terrorists.

The average person doesn't benefit from this cheap labor either---it is only the super rich and politicians who profit off bringing in the poor from other nations.....these replacements force down wages for the working man/woman. The same as it always has been and continues to be but no one is supposed to notice.

To be fair the average person does benefit if the cost of the item is lessened, but you can make a case for it being hurtful on the macro scale.

 

[Gary Lee]

No one likes talking about the genocide of the native inhabitants that Europeans found in America ...

Exploitation, not genocide, and Europeans were exploiting each other for centuries before they landed in the Americas.

Considering the technological gap if the Europeans truly tried to wipe out the natives there wouldn't be a single Hispanic person with native blood left around.

there are ALWAYS survivors-----but I agree that the
use of the word "genocide" for the tragedy inflicted
on native americans by the "white" europeans" is, slightly, an OVERSTATEMENT. Your use of the word
"Europeans" -----is kinda defective too

The Spanish were the worst, but all Europeans came over and exploited, again, due to the technological disparity I am not shocked.

be shocked. Contrary to the critical race theory
morons----Spain is in Europe----and the people of Spain who invaded
the Americas were <gasp> WHITE -----and damned determined about it. (and they were damned bad and racist against ANYTHING not white and catholic)
Spain was in a state of reaction against the
MOORS-----who were also, generally "white---with
a little too much mix for Spanish taste and WORSE---not catholic.

One also has to remember a little thing called the Inquisition with the Spanish.

EXCELLENT-----the little known (make that never discussed) reality is that the "ethics" of the Inquisition
in Spanish controlled south america was not only imposed on Jews----but also on native americans who had no CHOICE but to "convert" to catholicism. Should we mention that fact?

They never fought a war to keep slavery. Only right wingers, do that.

When you're at the top of the pecking order of course the wannab's will always try to vilify u for their own inabilities.

 

[Turtlesoup]

So now that everybody should be capable of understanding the lesson, what is the solution to the problem?

Liberals should stop dividing the races

Somewhat true, as it would be somewhat true if you said conservatives should do likewise. The solution is not in blaming your political opponents. You didn't even understand the simple 'lesson'!

Conservatives are not dividing the races

dont blame the victims of a black president with a chip on his shoulder and the Black Lies Matter crowd

I'm not blaming either side Mac. The 'lesson' isn't placing blame due to political preferences. It's simply saying that your country wrecked things and now you have to OWN those things.

The solution is much more difficult to come up with and fix, because it's been left to fester for so long. Now the sore has turned into a huge weeping Cancerous mess.

Our country didn't wreck things------things were more always "wrecked" and in a lot ways they were more wrecked before the country came to be.

 

[danielpalos]

Right wing bigotry is the continuing sin. Blacks were citizens of our Republic after 1808; the sin was Right Wingers preferring Sin to promoting the general welfare.

 

[jwoodie]

The Great Plains were the Great Forest until the natives burned down all the trees.

 

[sartre play]

Will never understand why black American citizens, are treated differently than any other American. Don't care who started it, any date you choice or any other population you blame this on. We should have been educated & civilized enough by now too know too treat each other.

 

[Gary Lee]

Right wing bigotry is the continuing sin. Blacks were citizens of our Republic after 1808; the sin was Right Wingers preferring Sin to promoting the general welfare.

You read like u may be uncomfortable in your own being. That or just petty much out of touch with reality. The left had been farming blacks for decades for their votes. The most obvious of which were Johnson & his Democrat's "Great Society" scheme which created those vast crime ridden ghettos & low income housing projects across America. The same ones that millions of black American's are crowded into today. Even the so called "First Black POTUS" screwed blacks but good with his de facto amnesty for illegals many of whom invaded traditionally low income black areas stealing jobs, driving down wages and increasing the crime rates. But go ahead and blame those "right wingers" as your lot in life declines even more under Democrat rule. BTW, did you happen to notice that Biden now supports amnesty for those DACA holders. Google "Biden DACA plan". Likely not! Too busy hating those "right wingers".

 

[Staidhup]

the NAs did the same thing to include TORTURE

Yeah, I know and don't want to talk about it. There is a reason Ben Franklin, George Washington, all of the 18th century Americans who actually got out and did things hated Indians. It was the incredible drunkenness and the rape, but also ----- never mind.

Ben Franklin?

Yeah. He really hated Indians --- a lot of whites did. They had good reasons.

I recall reading this, but I looked it up for you:


Benjamin Franklin had no sympathy for the Indians, calling them savages, despite their claim to the land.

“The year following, a treaty being to be held with the Indians at Carlisle, the governor sent a message to the House, proposing that they should nominate some of their members, to be join'd with some members of council, as commissioners for that purpose. The House named the speaker (Mr. Norris) and myself; and, being commission'd, we went to Carlisle, and met the Indians accordingly.

"As those people are extremely apt to get drunk, and, when so, are very quarrelsome and disorderly, we strictly forbade the selling any liquor to them; and when they complain'd of this restriction, we told them that if they would continue sober during the treaty, we would give them plenty of rum when business was over. They promis'd this, and they kept their promise, because they could get no liquor, and the treaty was conducted very orderly, and concluded to mutual satisfaction.

"They then claim'd and received the rum; this was in the afternoon: they were near one hundred men, women, and children, and were lodg'd in temporary cabins, built in the form of a square, just without the town. In the evening, hearing a great noise among them, the commissioners walk'd out to see what was the matter. We found they had made a great bonfire in the middle of the square; they were all drunk, men and women, quarreling and fighting. Their dark-colour'd bodies, half naked, seen only by the gloomy light of the bonfire, running after and beating one another with firebrands, accompanied by their horrid yellings, form'd a scene the most resembling our ideas of hell that could well be imagin'd; there was no appeasing the tumult, and we retired to our lodging.

"At midnight a number of them came thundering at our door, demanding more rum, of which we took no notice. The next day, sensible they had misbehav'd in giving us that disturbance, they sent three of their old counselors to make their apology. The orator acknowledg'd the fault, but laid it upon the rum; and then endeavoured to excuse the rum by saying, 'The Great Spirit, who made all things, made everything for some use, and whatever use he design'd anything for, that use it should always be put to. Now, when he made rum,' he said, 'Let this be for the Indians to get drunk with,' and it must be so.

"And, indeed, if it be the design of Providence to extirpate these savages in order to make room for cultivators of the earth, it seems not improbable that rum may be the appointed means. It has already annihilated all the tribes who formerly inhabited the sea-coast.”

Anyone could claim land, keeping it and controlling events within are another story. The fact that all the plains and most of the tribes in the Appalachian's and East were migratory in one sense or another needs to be kept in mind. Possession in the eyes of native tribes was determined by force.

 

[Turtlesoup]

No one likes talking about the genocide of the native inhabitants that Europeans found in America ...

Exploitation, not genocide, and Europeans were exploiting each other for centuries before they landed in the Americas.

Considering the technological gap if the Europeans truly tried to wipe out the natives there wouldn't be a single Hispanic person with native blood left around.

there are ALWAYS survivors-----but I agree that the
use of the word "genocide" for the tragedy inflicted
on native americans by the "white" europeans" is, slightly, an OVERSTATEMENT. Your use of the word
"Europeans" -----is kinda defective too

The Spanish were the worst, but all Europeans came over and exploited, again, due to the technological disparity I am not shocked.

be shocked. Contrary to the critical race theory
morons----Spain is in Europe----and the people of Spain who invaded
the Americas were <gasp> WHITE -----and damned determined about it. (and they were damned bad and racist against ANYTHING not white and catholic)
Spain was in a state of reaction against the
MOORS-----who were also, generally "white---with
a little too much mix for Spanish taste and WORSE---not catholic.

Slavery actually started out based on RELIGION not color of skin.
Yes Spainiards were the worse by far as their Catholic Religiona and teachings seemed to be very tolerant and encouraged such behavior.

I always felt but never did the research, that CATHOLICS were likely our slave owners and pushers and that alot of the very religious and anti-catholic abolitionists were actually against slavery because well the CAtholics were for it.

 

[Turtlesoup]

No one likes talking about the genocide of the native inhabitants that Europeans found in America ...

Exploitation, not genocide, and Europeans were exploiting each other for centuries before they landed in the Americas.

Considering the technological gap if the Europeans truly tried to wipe out the natives there wouldn't be a single Hispanic person with native blood left around.

there are ALWAYS survivors-----but I agree that the
use of the word "genocide" for the tragedy inflicted
on native americans by the "white" europeans" is, slightly, an OVERSTATEMENT. Your use of the word
"Europeans" -----is kinda defective too

The Spanish were the worst, but all Europeans came over and exploited, again, due to the technological disparity I am not shocked.

be shocked. Contrary to the critical race theory
morons----Spain is in Europe----and the people of Spain who invaded
the Americas were <gasp> WHITE -----and damned determined about it. (and they were damned bad and racist against ANYTHING not white and catholic)
Spain was in a state of reaction against the
MOORS-----who were also, generally "white---with
a little too much mix for Spanish taste and WORSE---not catholic.

One also has to remember a little thing called the Inquisition with the Spanish.

EXCELLENT-----the little known (make that never discussed) reality is that the "ethics" of the Inquisition
in Spanish controlled south america was not only imposed on Jews----but also on native americans who had no CHOICE but to "convert" to catholicism. Should we mention that fact?

They never fought a war to keep slavery. Only right wingers, do that.

Actually-----the spaniards justified their wars and enslaving others based on their religious beliefs and their bible just as they had the Inquistion.

 

[Leo123]

Your history isn't the problem Marty. You didn't understand the lesson so I'll elaborate a bit more so you'll be sure to get it.

America's white people wrecked the black population but England didn't and they have cars that are in great condition after the roughly equal amount of time they (the cars) have been owned.

You get this Marty. No America should be missing the point.

Wait.....Didn't we just have a black President? Aren't there very powerful black representatives, black scholars, etc.? Didn't we shed white blood in a Civil War over this very issue? I think you're either ignorant of real history or you're just a racist separating folks by the color of their skin.

 

[Donald H]

Your history isn't the problem Marty. You didn't understand the lesson so I'll elaborate a bit more so you'll be sure to get it.

America's white people wrecked the black population but England didn't and they have cars that are in great condition after the roughly equal amount of time they (the cars) have been owned.

You get this Marty. No America should be missing the point.

Wait.....Didn't we just have a black President? Aren't there very powerful black representatives, black scholars, etc.? Didn't we shed white blood in a Civil War over this very issue? I think you're either are ignorant of real history or you're just a racist separating folks by the color of their skin.

I've known about your country's racism problem for many years Leo, but since Trump the whole world knows now. Twit!

 

[Leo123]

I've known about your country's racism problem for many years Leo, but since Trump the whole world knows now. Twit!

What does the world 'know' DH? Seems to me if America is so 'racist' we wouldn't have had a black President. What racist policies did Trump establish? Black unemployment, for instance, actually went down (5.4% drop), Trump reduced the federal prison population (mostly black), Trump signed the HBCU, Trump created 8,000 opportunity zones which brought jobs back to the inner cities and much more. Your accusations are baseless. Fuckwad

 

[Donald H]

I've known about your country's racism problem for many years Leo, but since Trump the whole world knows now. Twit!

What does the world 'know' DH? Seems to me if America is so 'racist' we wouldn't have had a black President. What racist policies did Trump establish? Black unemployment, for instance, actually went down (5.4% drop), Trump reduced the federal prison population (mostly black), Trump signed the HBCU, Trump created 8,000 opportunity zones which brought jobs back to the inner cities and much more. Your accusations are baseless. Fuckwad

Having a black president brought the truth out of the closets of the south and into the daylight. Now nearly half of Americans consider Obama to be the worst president ever. You too?
And strange isn't it that the rest of the world considers Obama to be one of the best ever. Very strange Leo!

Trump? Seriously? He did nothing but cook the books to make it look better, but didn't elevate your country's quallity of life above 15th.

 

[Leo123]

I've known about your country's racism problem for many years Leo, but since Trump the whole world knows now. Twit!

What does the world 'know' DH? Seems to me if America is so 'racist' we wouldn't have had a black President. What racist policies did Trump establish? Black unemployment, for instance, actually went down (5.4% drop), Trump reduced the federal prison population (mostly black), Trump signed the HBCU, Trump created 8,000 opportunity zones which brought jobs back to the inner cities and much more. Your accusations are baseless. Fuckwad

Having a black president brought the truth out of the closets of the south and into the daylight. Now nearly half of Americans consider Obama to be the worst president ever. You too?
And strange isn't it that the rest of the world considers Obama to be one of the best ever. Very strange Leo!

Trump? Seriously? He did nothing but cook the books to make it look better, but didn't elevate your country's quallity of life above 15th.

That Obama was not such a good President is a matter of opinion based on performance not skin color. Yeah I get it, in your view, ‘Orange man bad’ nothing Trump has done or will do is good.

 

[Circe]

Possession in the eyes of native tribes was determined by force.

Good. So we determined it by force. Settles that problem. Everybody quit bellyaching about it. They lost, we won, if you don't like it, give your house and yard to an Indian.

 

[Turtlesoup]

I don't do MIRACULOUS ---I date slavery back----at the very least----7000 years

I've known about your country's racism problem for many years Leo, but since Trump the whole world knows now. Twit!

What does the world 'know' DH? Seems to me if America is so 'racist' we wouldn't have had a black President. What racist policies did Trump establish? Black unemployment, for instance, actually went down (5.4% drop), Trump reduced the federal prison population (mostly black), Trump signed the HBCU, Trump created 8,000 opportunity zones which brought jobs back to the inner cities and much more. Your accusations are baseless. Fuckwad

Having a black president brought the truth out of the closets of the south and into the daylight. Now nearly half of Americans consider Obama to be the worst president ever. You too?
And strange isn't it that the rest of the world considers Obama to be one of the best ever. Very strange Leo!

Trump? Seriously? He did nothing but cook the books to make it look better, but didn't elevate your country's quallity of life above 15th.

He was the worst president ever---$10 trillion gone, giving Iran billions, funding and arming terrorists including ISIS which Obama purposely aided so they could kill and rape in Syria---Obama the liar, the thief, the druggy, the closet muslim and gay, has a lot of blood on his hands....including americans.