Is There a Serious Discussion about Impeachment?

[PratchettFan]

If anyone can engage in a serious discussion about impeachment, I'm certainly willing to listen. What are the charges?

There aren't any charges. There are lots of accusations and inuendos, but nothing beyond that. Investigations are going on. There do appear to be lots of folks masturbating over it though.

 

[Redfish]

as much as I would like to see barry kicked out, its not going to happen. he may sacrifice some of his underlings, and he would love to sacrifice hillary, but he will remain teflon because the media will remains up his ass.

Now, if the media were to turn on him, well, then anything could happen.

 

[nodoginnafight]

It depends on how the democrats feel about obama putting bugs around and tapping THEM.

Congressman: Justice Dept. Wiretapped the House of Representative's Cloak Room | The Weekly Standard

California congressman David Nunes made the claim yesterday that the Justice Department wiretapped telephones in the House of Representative's Cloak Room, an exclusive part of the Capitol where members are able to privately interact with one another.

Ok, if a warrant is issued to tap a phone (the reporters') then does that warrant also have to include a justification for every point one of those calls comes from? If a warrant is issued to tap Larry's phone and Tom calls Larry, does Tom have a case?

What's your take?

 

[Katzndogz]

as much as I would like to see barry kicked out, its not going to happen. he may sacrifice some of his underlings, and he would love to sacrifice hillary, but he will remain teflon because the media will remains up his ass.

Now, if the media were to turn on him, well, then anything could happen.

The media is turning on him. There would never have been impeachment proceedings against Nixon had the press covered for him. It was the press that caused it.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Article II Section IV.

The President, Vice President and all civil officers of the United States, shall be removed from office on impeachment for, and conviction of, treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors.

List of impeachable Violations:


FCC: Regulation of the Internet in the face of a court order from Circuit Court of Appeals for Washington D.C. stating that the FCC does not have the power to regulate the Internet.

PPACA: Individual Mandate; heard by Supreme Court of the United States in March 2012, ruled as a tax by the Supreme Court in June of 2012.

EPA 1: GHG lawsuit; EPA’s own Inspector General reported last September that EPA failed to comply with its own data standards; Heard in Circuit Court of Appeals for Washington D.C. in February 2012.

OSM: Attempting to impose regulatory requirements on the 19 states with authority for exclusive regulation of their coalmines for the first time in more than 30 years.

NLRB: Boeing; Engaged in unprecedented behavior as described by former Chairmen under both Presidents Bush (43) and Clinton; behavior is best exemplified in South Carolina where the Board tried to muzzle over 80 percent of state voters who supported a secret ballot amendment to the South Carolina Constitution and attempted unsuccessfully to tell an employer in the state where they can and cannot base manufacturing facilities

EPA: Florida Water; EPA’s numeric nutrient criteria pre-empted Florida standards; U.S. District Judge upheld the state’s site-specific alternative criteria for streams and rivers

EPA: Texas Air; TX filed lawsuit challenging Cross-State Air Pollution Rules; application rule to TX was particularly dubious because state was included in the regulation at the last minute and without an opportunity to respond to the proposed regulation; regulation was based on a dubious claim that air pollution from TX affected a single air-quality monitor in Granite City, Illinois more than 500 miles and three states away from Texas.

EPA: Oklahoma Air; EPA illegally usurped Oklahoma’s authority in the Clean Air Act to determine the state’s own plan for addressing sources of emissions that affect visibility, by imposing a federal implementation plan; Federal plan goes beyond the authority granted to the EPA in the Clean Air Act and will result in $2 billion in cost to install technology needed to complete the EPA plan, and a permanent increase of 15-20 percent in the cost of electricity; Obama Administration is fighting Oklahoma’s appeal, which was filed in the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals.

HHS: Religious Liberty; HHS mandated religious entities such as Catholic, Baptist and Jewish schools and churches be required to provided medical services they find unconscionable to their employees; President attempted to compromise with an “accommodation” in name only that required insurance companies to provide the services for free to the religious organization employees; Accommodation made matters worse as many religious-base hospitals and schools are self-insurers; Seven Attorneys General filed suit to protect religious liberty and oppose the HHS mandate.

DOJ: South Carolina & Voting Rights Act: Rejecting voter ID statutes that are similar to those already approved by the Supreme Court of the United States; DOJ ignored section 8 of the Voting Rights Act which calls for protections against voter fraud, and used section 5 to administratively block measures to protect the integrity of elections passed by state legislatures in preclearance states including South Carolina; South Carolina voter ID law merely requires a voter to show photo identification in order to vote or to complete an affidavit at the pain of perjury if the voter does not have a photo ID.

DOJ: Arizona & Voting Rights Act: Rejecting voter ID statutes that are similar to those already approved by the Supreme Court of the United States.

DOJ: Arizona Immigration; In violation of 10th Amendment, federal government to sue to prevent AZ from using reasonable measures to discourage illegal immigration within Arizona’s borders; Affects Arizona because state has a large percentage, compared to other states, of illegal immigrants and need to be able to act to reduce the number.

DOJ: Alabama Immigration; The DOJ challenged Alabama’s immigration reform laws after parts were “green lighted” by a federal judge; DOJ appealed the ruling; parts of the AL case have been struck down in various federal courts; specific provisions of the law include collection of the immigration status of public school students, businesses must use E-Verify, prohibition of illegal immigrants receiving public benefits; the provision requiring immigrants to always carry alien registration cards; allowance of lawsuits by state citizens who do not believe public officials are enforcing the law.

DOJ: South Carolina Immigration; DOJ challenged South Carolina’s immigration reform laws that are very similar to the AZ law which was heard by United States Supreme Court.

DOJ: Georgia Immigration; DOJ challenged Georgia's immigration reform laws that are very similar to the AZ law which was heard by the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals in August 2011.

Congressional: “Recess” appointments to NLRB (three) and CFPB (one)

EEOC: Hosanna Tabor (MI); Sought to reinstate a minister who was discharged for her disagreement with the religious doctrine of the church.

DOE: Yucca Mountain; In 2009, Administration arbitrarily broke federal law and derailed the most studied energy project in American history when DOE announced intent to withdraw 8,000 page Yucca Mountain licensing application with prejudice; SC and Washington State filed suit, as a result, contesting the unconstitutional action; American people have paid more than $31 billion (including interest) through percentages of electric rate fees towards the project and taxpayers have footed an addition $200 million in legal feeds and over $2 billion in judgments against the DOE for breaking contracts associated with Yucca Mountain.

DOI: Glendale Casino (AZ); Glendale is a violation because the Federal Government is forcing a family-oriented town, Glendale, to become another Las Vegas against its will. Essentially, the Federal Government has granted ‘reservation status’ to a 54-acre plot in the same town, where the Tohono O’odham Nation plans to build a resort and casino.

 

[ba1614]

Unless it can be proven he knew about it happening I don't think it's impeachable is it?

If it's proven he knew then yes his ass should be impeached.

 

[nodoginnafight]

Nixon was charged with obstruction of justice for failing to turn over White House tape recordings that were subpoenaed

It was more than just failing to turn over the white house tapes.

In his conduct of the office of the President of the United States, Richard M. Nixon, in violation of his constitutional oath faithfully to execute the office of President of the United States and, to the best of his ability, preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States, and in violation of his constitutional duty to take care that the laws be faithfully executed, has prevented, obstructed, and impeded the administration of justice, in that: On June 17, 1972, and prior thereto, agents of the Committee for the Re-Election of the President committed unlawful entry of the headquarters of the Democratic National Committee in Washington, District of Columbia, for the purpose of securing political intelligence. Subsequent thereto, Richard M. Nixon, using the powers of his high office, engaged personally and through his subordinates and agents in a course of conduct or plan designed to delay, impede and obstruct investigations of such unlawful entry; to cover up, conceal and protect those responsible and to conceal the existence and scope of other unlawful covert activities. The means used to implement this course of conduct or plan have included one or more of the following:

(1) Making or causing to be made false or misleading statements to lawfully authorized investigative officers and employes of the United States.

(2) Withholding relevant and material evidence or information from lawfully authorized investigative officers and employes of the United States.

(3) Approving, condoning, acquiescing in, and counseling witnesses with respect to the giving of false or misleading statements to lawfully authorized investigative officers and employes of the United States and false or misleading testimony in duly instituted judicial and congressional proceedings.

(4) Interfering or endeavoring to interfere with the conduct of investigations by the Department of Justice of the United States, the Federal Bureau of Investigation, the office of Watergate Special Prosecution Force and congressional committees.

(5) Approving, condoning, and acquiescing in, the surreptitious payments of substantial sums of money for the purpose of obtaining the silence or influencing the testimony of witnesses, potential witnesses or individuals who participated in such unlawful entry and other illegal activities.

(6) Endeavoring to misuse the Central Intelligence Agency, an agency of the United States.

(7) Disseminating information received from officers of the Department of Justice of the United States to subjects of investigations conducted by lawfully authorized investigative officers and employes of the United States for the purpose of aiding and assisting such subjects in their attempts to avoid criminal liability.

(8) Making false or misleading public statements for the purpose of deceiving the people of the United States into believing that a thorough and complete investigation has been conducted with respect to allegation of misconduct on the part of personnel of the Executive Branch of the United States and personnel of the Committee for the Re-Election of the President, and that there was no involvement of such personnel in such misconduct; or

(9) Endeavoring to cause prospective defendants, and individuals duly tried and convicted, to expect favored treatment and consideration in return for their silence or false testimony, or rewarding individuals for their silence or false testimony.

We have a winner. Give that man a chicken dinner.

Yes, there was more. The first article specifically mentioned the tapes. But it falls under obstruction of justice - not abuse of power. Impedeing a legal investigation.

So are you saying that Obama has provided false information to investigators? Or conceled others to provide false or misleading information to investigators?

Go ahead, make your case.

 

[nodoginnafight]

Unless it can be proven he knew about it happening I don't think it's impeachable is it?

If it's proven he knew then yes his ass should be impeached.

If he knew what was happening? What would he have to know about in order for it to be a criminal offense?

 

[blastoff]

Why impeach the loser? Better to keep him around as sort of the moral punching bag of the Dims for the next two election cycles, and when you add Hillary into the mix the potential is a delicious opportunity to kill two birds with one stone.

What one thing is crystal clear just from what's been released thus far? Both Barry and Hillary and some of their assorted butt lickers outright lied their asses off to the American people. Repeatedly in some cases.

So between now and the 2016 election the right just deals a How Do We Know You're Not Lying
Again? card whenever Barry gets on his soapbox about anything. And Hillary will be tied in to everything, two peas snug in their pod. Barry's State Dept. blew it big time before, during, and after the deadly attacks on their own personnel. Lie, defect, obfuscate, distract...anything to keep the focus anywhere but where it belonged.

And a hearty good luck to you, Hillary, hauling that baggage along the very very long campaign trail.

 

[nodoginnafight]

as much as I would like to see barry kicked out, its not going to happen. he may sacrifice some of his underlings, and he would love to sacrifice hillary, but he will remain teflon because the media will remains up his ass.

Now, if the media were to turn on him, well, then anything could happen.

The media is turning on him. There would never have been impeachment proceedings against Nixon had the press covered for him. It was the press that caused it.

The press brought the crimes to light, I agree. But is that the only way a crime can be brought to light? Did the press get Clinton impeached?

 

[Oldguy]

Articles of Impeachment

It's a little late for that one, don't you think? In any case, the entire Congress would also have to be brought up on charges for not enforcing their will and compelling the President to follow the War Powers Act. They were even more derelict in their duty at that time than was Obama.

 

[Oldguy]

The three Articles of Impeachment in the Nixon case was obstruction of justice, abuse of power and contempt of congress.

The same charges present here.

If you read the Nixon Articles of Impeachment, they could be word for word the same ones applicable to obama.

Or George Bush or Dick Cheney or Ronald Reagan and a whole host of other Presidents.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Source: ImpeachObamaCampaign.com & World Net Daily News

Has Obama committed “high crimes and misdemeanors” that warrant impeachment and removal? There is much evidence that says, yes, he has.

Impeachment of the president is justified on constitutional grounds if any of the following 12 questions is answered in the affirmative:

■Did President Obama have personal knowledge of the illegal “Fast and Furious” project run by ATF and approved by top officials in the Department of Justice, a plan to sell over 2,000 guns to Mexican drug cartels, weapons now linked to numerous crimes on both sides of the border including the murder of Border Patrol Agent Brian Terry?


■Did the president have knowledge of the ongoing effort by Attorney General Eric Holder and other Justice Department officials to cover up the true purpose and scope of that ill-conceived, illegal project?


■Did the president direct his appointees on the National Labor Relations Board to bring a lawsuit against Boeing as a political payoff to organized labor?


■Did the president act contrary to the advice and pleas of his own CIA director, four previous intelligence agency heads of both parties and numerous experts on covert operations when, on April 16, 2009, he made public four internal Justice Department memos on terrorist interrogation techniques, thereby deliberately emasculating our anti-terrorist intelligence operations and endangering the lives of many intelligence agents?


■Did the president have knowledge of a plan by the Department of Homeland Security, ordered by Homeland Security chief Janet Napolitano and the deputy commissioner of U.S. Customs and Border Patrol, David Aguilar, to distort and falsify the Border Patrol’s southwest border illegal-alien apprehension numbers by means of a deliberate, planned undercount – for the purpose of misleading the public and Congress about the true (abysmal) state of border security?


■By choosing not to secure the border against unlawful entry, has the president willfully disregarded his clear duty under Article IV, Section 4, of the Constitution to protect the states from foreign invasion? Did the president admit this in a candid exchange with Sen. Jon Kyl, telling him the reason he was not stopping the cross-border human trafficking was to force Republicans in Congress to strike a deal for amnesty legislation?


■Is the president showing contempt for the Constitution, the separation of powers and the rule of law by ordering an “administrative amnesty” for millions of illegal aliens through the implementation of the John Morton memo of June 2011?


■Has the president demonstrated contempt for the Constitution and violated the separation of powers by issuing numerous executive orders and agency rules that have no basis in statute and often contradict congressional votes against such actions?


■Did the president authorize Labor Secretary Hilda Solis to violate current federal laws against aiding and abetting illegal aliens by signing agreements with foreign countries and pledging to protect and fund educational efforts to inform illegal aliens of their workplace “rights”? Also did these “agreements” she signed with foreign countries violate Article II, Section 2, of the Constitution which clearly establishes the manner in which treaties are to be undertaken and ratified?


■Did the president violate his oath of office when he instructed the Department of Justice not to defend the Defense of Marriage Act in federal courts? Does the Constitution permit the person designated by Article II, Section 1, as holding the “executive power” of government to decide unilaterally to not enforce a law he disagrees with?


■Did the president authorize or approve the offer of a federal job to Rep. Joe Sestek if he would withdraw from the 2010 Democratic primary race for U.S. senator in Pennsylvania?


■Did the president violate the War Powers Act by conducting military operations in Libya beyond the 60-day limitation?

http://www.impeachobamacampaign.com

 

[ba1614]

Unless it can be proven he knew about it happening I don't think it's impeachable is it?

If it's proven he knew then yes his ass should be impeached.

If he knew what was happening? What would he have to know about in order for it to be a criminal offense?

Thought I was responding to something about the IRS deal, obviously I misread something lol

 

[Redfish]

as much as I would like to see barry kicked out, its not going to happen. he may sacrifice some of his underlings, and he would love to sacrifice hillary, but he will remain teflon because the media will remains up his ass.

Now, if the media were to turn on him, well, then anything could happen.

The media is turning on him. There would never have been impeachment proceedings against Nixon had the press covered for him. It was the press that caused it.

The press brought the crimes to light, I agree. But is that the only way a crime can be brought to light? Did the press get Clinton impeached?

the media tried to ignore monica gate until they had no choice but to cover it, same thing today. the media does seem to be turning on obama because as biased as the media is, they do not like being lied to.

 

[Oldguy]

Why impeach the loser? Better to keep him around as sort of the moral punching bag of the Dims for the next two election cycles, and when you add Hillary into the mix the potential is a delicious opportunity to kill two birds with one stone.

What one thing is crystal clear just from what's been released thus far? Both Barry and Hillary and some of their assorted butt lickers outright lied their asses off to the American people. Repeatedly in some cases.

So between now and the 2016 election the right just deals a How Do We Know You're Not Lying
Again? card whenever Barry gets on his soapbox about anything. And Hillary will be tied in to everything, two peas snug in their pod. Barry's State Dept. blew it big time before, during, and after the deadly attacks on their own personnel. Lie, defect, obfuscate, distract...anything to keep the focus anywhere but where it belonged.

And a hearty good luck to you, Hillary, hauling that baggage along the very very long campaign trail.

If a politician lying is an impeachable offense.....well....you know.

 

[nodoginnafight]

Both Barry and Hillary and some of their assorted butt lickers outright lied their asses off to the American people. Repeatedly in some cases.

Unfortunately, even if true that doesn't appear to be a crime. And it is all to common. Bush lied about Pat Tilman and Jessica Lynch. Clinton lied about Monica (under oath too - a more serious legal matter). Bush senior (read my lips, etc...), Reagan lied.

In fact, I'm having a hard time coming up with a president who has not lied to the American people. Never should be excused or condoned imho. But I've never seen one impeached for lying to the American people.

 

[PratchettFan]

Article II Section IV.

The President, Vice President and all civil officers of the United States, shall be removed from office on impeachment for, and conviction of, treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors.

List of impeachable Violations:


FCC: Regulation of the Internet in the face of a court order from Circuit Court of Appeals for Washington D.C. stating that the FCC does not have the power to regulate the Internet

PPACA: Individual Mandate; heard by Supreme Court of the United States in March 2012, ruled as a tax by the Supreme Court in June of 2012.

EPA 1: GHG lawsuit; EPA’s own Inspector General reported last September that EPA failed to comply with its own data standards; Heard in Circuit Court of Appeals for Washington D.C. in February 2012

OSM: Attempting to impose regulatory requirements on the 19 states with authority for exclusive regulation of their coalmines for the first time in more than 30 years

NLRB: Boeing; Engaged in unprecedented behavior as described by former Chairmen under both Presidents Bush (43) and Clinton; behavior is best exemplified in South Carolina where the Board tried to muzzle over 80 percent of state voters who supported a secret ballot amendment to the South Carolina Constitution and attempted unsuccessfully to tell an employer in the state where they can and cannot base manufacturing facilities

EPA: Florida Water; EPA’s numeric nutrient criteria pre-empted Florida standards; U.S. District Judge upheld the state’s site-specific alternative criteria for streams and rivers

EPA: Texas Air; TX filed lawsuit challenging Cross-State Air Pollution Rules; application rule to TX was particularly dubious because state was included in the regulation at the last minute and without an opportunity to respond to the proposed regulation; regulation was based on a dubious claim that air pollution from TX affected a single air-quality monitor in Granite City, Illinois more than 500 miles and three states away from Texas

EPA: Oklahoma Air; EPA illegally usurped Oklahoma’s authority in the Clean Air Act to determine the state’s own plan for addressing sources of emissions that affect visibility, by imposing a federal implementation plan; Federal plan goes beyond the authority granted to the EPA in the Clean Air Act and will result in $2 billion in cost to install technology needed to complete the EPA plan, and a permanent increase of 15-20 percent in the cost of electricity; Obama Administration is fighting Oklahoma’s appeal, which was filed in the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals

HHS: Religious Liberty; HHS mandated religious entities such as Catholic, Baptist and Jewish schools and churches be required to provided medical services they find unconscionable to their employees; President attempted to compromise with an “accommodation” in name only that required insurance companies to provide the services for free to the religious organization employees; Accommodation made matters worse as many religious-base hospitals and schools are self-insurers; Seven Attorneys General filed suit to protect religious liberty and oppose the HHS mandate

DOJ: South Carolina & Voting Rights Act: Rejecting voter ID statutes that are similar to those already approved by the Supreme Court of the United States; DOJ ignored section 8 of the Voting Rights Act which calls for protections against voter fraud, and used section 5 to administratively block measures to protect the integrity of elections passed by state legislatures in preclearance states including South Carolina; South Carolina voter ID law merely requires a voter to show photo identification in order to vote or to complete an affidavit at the pain of perjury if the voter does not have a photo ID

DOJ: Arizona & Voting Rights Act: Rejecting voter ID statutes that are similar to those already approved by the Supreme Court of the United States

DOJ: Arizona Immigration; In violation of 10th Amendment, federal government to sue to prevent AZ from using reasonable measures to discourage illegal immigration within Arizona’s borders; Affects Arizona because state has a large percentage, compared to other states, of illegal immigrants and need to be able to act to reduce the number

DOJ: Alabama Immigration; The DOJ challenged Alabama’s immigration reform laws after parts were “green lighted” by a federal judge; DOJ appealed the ruling; parts of the AL case have been struck down in various federal courts; specific provisions of the law include collection of the immigration status of public school students, businesses must use E-Verify, prohibition of illegal immigrants receiving public benefits; the provision requiring immigrants to always carry alien registration cards; allowance of lawsuits by state citizens who do not believe public officials are enforcing the law

DOJ: South Carolina Immigration; DOJ challenged South Carolina’s immigration reform laws that are very similar to the AZ which is scheduled to appear before the United States Supreme Court; SC case will be heard by the 4th Circuit soon there after as the 4th Circuit granted SC motion to extend the filing time until after the US Supreme Court issues an Opinion in AZ

Congressional: “Recess” appointments to NLRB (three) and CFPB (one)

EEOC: Hosanna Tabor (MI); Sought to reinstate a minister who was discharged for her disagreement with the religious doctrine of the church

DOE: Yucca Mountain; In 2009, Administration arbitrarily broke federal law and derailed the most studied energy project in American history when DOE announced intent to withdraw 8,000 page Yucca Mountain licensing application with prejudice; SC and Washington State filed suit, as a result, contesting the unconstitutional action; American people have paid more than $31 billion (including interest) through percentages of electric rate fees towards the project and taxpayers have footed an addition $200 million in legal feeds and over $2 billion in judgments against the DOE for breaking contracts associated with Yucca Mountain

DOI: Glendale Casino (AZ); Glendale is a violation because the Federal Government is forcing a family-oriented town, Glendale, to become another Las Vegas against its will. Essentially, the Federal Government has granted ‘reservation status’ to a 54-acre plot in the same town, where the Tohono O’odham Nation plans to build a resort and casino.

Not a single impeachable charge in the lot.

 

[Redfish]

The three Articles of Impeachment in the Nixon case was obstruction of justice, abuse of power and contempt of congress.

The same charges present here.

If you read the Nixon Articles of Impeachment, they could be word for word the same ones applicable to obama.

Or George Bush or Dick Cheney or Ronald Reagan and a whole host of other Presidents.

yes, we know you hate bush, cheney, and reagan. but an ex president or a dead president cannot be impeached.

how about if we deal with the guy that is screwing up our country right now?

 

[PratchettFan]

The three Articles of Impeachment in the Nixon case was obstruction of justice, abuse of power and contempt of congress.

The same charges present here.

If you read the Nixon Articles of Impeachment, they could be word for word the same ones applicable to obama.

Or George Bush or Dick Cheney or Ronald Reagan and a whole host of other Presidents.

yes, we know you hate bush, cheney, and reagan. but an ex president or a dead president cannot be impeached.

how about if we deal with the guy that is screwing up our country right now?

It is being dealt with. There are investigations currently happening in the House. That's how this works under the Constitution.