Islam Does not Permit Killing Unless Your are Being Oppressed from Practicing Islam

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by skhaldi
I believe we were worshipping in our Mosques long before the Jews got there. I also doubt Jews would build mosques. Obviously Muslims are living there and obviously that land is ours. It is a mosque for goodness sakes how can you say it belongs to anyone else. As for them destroying our houses. They are destroying houses that are in the Palestinian land, not in lsrael.

The land is yours because you LIVE there?

Thanks, I am glad YOU said it this time.

 

[skhaldi]

I have the choice to divorce my husband. I have a choice to whom I marry. I have a choice whether I want to marry a liberal or a conservative. I have the choice to whether I get married at all. I have the same choices everyone has. I have the choice to follow my religion or disobey it. Life is full of consequences and rewards for your choices. If I choose to marry I am choosing that I am allowing a second person in my life to have a say in what I do. Just like my husband is also letting in a person who has a say in what he does. Everyone enters into their marriage knowing the rules regarding men and women. The woman has the choice to say no. We are not forced into marriage, we are not forced to live in an Islamic country, we are not forced into anything. Yes, some places use force. With regards to the woman not having a choice in her life that is a bunch of balogna. I choose who I marry and I choose how long I am married. If I believe my husband is unfair I can get a divorce...simple as that.
Stephanie khaldi

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by skhaldi
Living in a non-islamic land is not having it both ways. They are by no means preventing us from religion. Not once has the police come to my house telling me I can't pray. We are not being prevented from our religion whatsoever so there is no problem there.

-Same with Israel.

Notice your reasoning is inconsistent.

 

[skhaldi]

Okay, I slipped up...I do not live there personally...but those houses being knocked down belong to Palestinians, my brothers and sisters. Those Mosques were built by Muslims...how can you say they belong to Israel. We didn't sale them to Israel. They came in and they took them.

 

[skhaldi]

Israel is taking peoples homes from them and preventing them from going to their Mosques. How can you say my ideas are inconsistent.
Israel is preventing muslims from practicing their religion.
Other non-Islamic countries are not coming into our Mosques and bulldozing our houses.

 

[skhaldi]

How would you feel if someone walked into your living room and said...This is my house now...this is my land now...get out or I am going to knock it down. And since I am knocking all your houses down I am going to jail you into a small piece of land and build a huge wall between us and this is going to be your new home...a cage. You cannot visit your places of worship now located in "our" part of the land.

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by skhaldi
Okay, I slipped up...I do not live there personally...but those houses being knocked down belong to Palestinians, my brothers and sisters. Those Mosques were built by Muslims...how can you say they belong to Israel. We didn't sale them to Israel. They came in and they took them.

-Not when they demand Israel turn over ALL land to them because they live there, even though it is being taken from Israel by force and terrorism.

Funny how Israel has no problem with muslims until they allign with practicing terrorism.

Wonder why ALL muslims are being thrown out?

How about.....TERRORISM IS WHAT THE KORAN AND YOU BOTH ADVOCATE.

 

[NewGuy]

Originally posted by skhaldi
How would you feel if someone walked into your living room and said...This is my house now...this is my land now...get out or I am going to knock it down. And since I am knocking all your houses down I am going to jail you into a small piece of land and build a huge wall between us and this is going to be your new home...a cage. You cannot visit your places of worship now located in "our" part of the land.

If I was consistently taking over their country by force and using terrorism to get what I want at all costs, I would be lucky to be alive.

 

[skhaldi]

Okay...this is getting tiring. I have come to the realization that no one really cares. You all will have your prejudices no matter what I say. I also don't see anyone becoming open-minded. Just more closed minded. I also came to the realization that you have all of the resources I have and it is your choice to study them correctly. I wish you all the best of luck. I have become bored of this type of debate. If anyone has any real questions that do not have an obvious answers you are more than welcome to email me at [email protected].
Otherwise I am going to ignore this board. It is just depressing to see the ignorance and hatred. I think there is more name calling on this board than any actual intelligent remarks. If you all would have studied a little more into the obsurd comments you are making you would find the true answers. I do not know why I tried to help you understand. Your reactions have proven the truth of the Quran more and more each time you speak. You choose a blindfold and you will not even admit that something may make a little sense. Allah will only guide those with true and open hearts to learn.

 

[skhaldi]

I only choose to back out because I feel the debate is going nowhere. We are back at the same spot and it doesn't seem anyone can admit that maybe they do not know everything and that maybe they need to study a little more. I have admitted many times that I am not a scholar and I do side with you guys on a lot of the political issues. Some of the verses you mention though are so obvious that you are understanding them inocorrectly and it is tiring having 10 people or more throwing comments at me. I don't have the time or energy to try to explain our beliefs to people who do not care to listen. For a second I thought you guys might be interested in at least getting a partial view of what an actual Muslim believes. I wasn't sure how many Muslims you had actually met. I am a person who talks to someone to gain friendships not to argue. I realized this board was meant for debate and nothing else. I felt like it was me alone against 20 other people.
Also, a debate is never good when people are being called liars. I feel like I am in a room with a bunch of kids. Like I said, I really do not want to convert anyone, I just think even possibly getting someone on here to understand our faith is impossible because minds are closed. I could care less what religion you are...my brother is atheist and my parents and sister are strong christians and I have budhist, hindu, and jewish friends.
Maybe I read too much emotion into your replies, but just the way things were said just sounded really hateful. I hope that none of my posts have sounded hateful to anybody.
Again, if you really want to debate the facts of Islam politely I would be glad to get an email from you. I would be happy if someone would like to email me and have a nice straight forward debate. I like doing the one on one where I can really focus on what you have to say. I want to be able to answer every question the fullest extent and with so many questions being aimed at me it is just getting to difficult to keep up with, without being on the computer all night searching to answer the questions and comments.
Anyway, I am getting off work now. Email me if you really want to understand Islam...not convert...just understand. [email protected]
Thanks,
Stephanie Khaldi

 

[Merlin1047]

Originally posted by skhaldi
In regards to beating the wife. There are situations in which a man can hit his wife, but lightly.

........ I know whatever my husband tells me is for my own good. If I am stubborn enough to disobey the laws of Islam to actually say No to my husband all the time that is bad. If I then am so stuck in doing something sinful that I would be willing to give up my time with the man I love most I feel that my husband could do nothing more. He tried to stop me verbally, and then emotionally...his last option is to stop me physically.

.......Yes, people do not follow these rules, but wife beating is in all parts of the world. Anyway, I know not everyone is going to agree with this, but I know I would much rather get a small slap from my husband instead of spend an extra day in hell.

I am aware of the strictures on wife beating outlined in the koran. My question did not concern itself with the correct technique for wife beating, but in your mindset in accepting it.

You have given me some insight into the psyche of women who willingly convert to islam. Your statement that "I know whatever my husband tells me is for my own good." speaks volumes. Apparently you have some serious self-esteem issues. How can you accept the fact that your religion places you in a subservient status? A husband is a mate, not a master. But apparently you feel a need to have someone control your life because you seem to believe that your own judgement is inferior to that of the man you married. Otherwise how can you justify your statement "...but I know I would much rather get a small slap from my husband instead of spend an extra day in hell." Is your husband the path to heaven???

I have been married for 33 years (and yes, that's to the same woman). My wife and I came to an understanding early on that I would never lay a finger on her in anger, but if she ever struck me, she had better duck. If I ever hit my wife, my ass would be in jail within the hour because she isn't going to tolerate that kind of treatment. Unlike women who follow islam, my wife is an independent person who does not need me to make decisions for her. Yes, we consult and discuss, but I know that in my absence she is totally capable of carrying on without any input from me.

"He tried to stop me verbally, and then emotionally...his last option is to stop me physically." This statement is entirely fallacious. If you have a right, under islamic law, to divorce then THAT is a spouse's last option. Beating or physical restraint is NEVER an acceptable act. The fact that islam allows this kind of conduct is just another bit of evidence which proves it to be a seriously flawed religion.

I gather that you are either an American or from some other western country and you converted to islam because of the man you wanted to marry. Hopefully you will not find that you have made an extremely serious error in judgement. Many other western women have come to regret their choice of islamic husbands. Some did not live long enough to file for divorce.

 

[dilloduck]

Originally posted by Sir Evil
First of let me say that your walking out on the debate is very typical! Usually happen when you dont hear what you want to!

Ignoring this board is what you chose to do the moment you joined! You never saw the diversity and chose to preach you own belief's. Ignorance and Hatred are also typical responses for those not wanting to hear others debate the great Allah, I mean C'mon, were has anyone in this thread chose to show you hatred? And like I have said several times before, what is it that makes you believe the we are looking for a education on the Muslim beliefs? Oh, I see, you just assumed once again that us American's are just a bunch of Dumbasses! Wrong assumption!

Lastly I feel bad that Allah will not be guiding us to learn your way's, but perhaps that's because we are not looking to convert so nice try if you say that you are not preaching!

Thought you were talking about newguy for a sec there

 

[skhaldi]

I will tell you my conversion story later. I made a choice to marry my husband. Sometimes, I know what is best for my husband and sometimes he knows what is best for me. Marriage is a partnership in which both partners help each other to stay on the right path. So, yes...I do believe I am imperfect and not always going to make the right decision...same goes for my husband. When these times of imperfection come along I can only hope my husband will be there to remind me to pray my prayers on time and patiently. Islam does not teach the woman to be completely subserviant. You will see this by looking at the first wife of the prophet (peace be upon him) who was a strong business woman.
Anyway, gotta get home.
Stephanie Khaldi

 

[freeandfun1]

I guess being contradictory in ones statements does not = lieing....

She must have gone to the Bill Clinton Shool of Logic.

 

[NewGuy]

She DID admit the koran says lying is acceptable to one's enemies.

 

[dilloduck]

She sounds a lot like you do when you try to defend your thoughts newguy.

 

[Merlin1047]

Stephanie, I'm sure that by now you're frustrated with the apparent intransigence of those, like me, who refuse to accept your viewpoint.

Speaking for myself only, there is no way that you can convince me that islam is a religion of peace and brotherhood. Get a map of the world and place your finger on any landmass on the planet and it is likely that muslims are there murdering non-muslims. That is not indicative of a religion that has been "hijacked" by extremists. Instead, it is indicative of an extremist religion. Iran, under the ayatollah Khomeini is only one example. Muslim fanatics installed Khomeini as ruler in Iran and most paid for that with their lives. They were murdered by agents of the ayatollah or died in the wars he fomented. Libya, Syria, Sudan, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Egypt, Iraq, Lebanon, all have islamic clerics who wield power to oppress the populace and seek to export their violence to other countries.

Moslems throughout the world murder their non-moslem countrymen. Africa, South America, the Phillipines, Indonesia, are just a few examples of moslem hatred and intolerance.

Now moslems have chosen to attack our country and have murdered thousands of our citizens. They have attacked our military. If moslems only resort to violence if prevented from practicing their religion, how do you explain the attacks not only on our country, but throughout the world? And why were millions of moslems rejoicing after the attack on the WTC? I am unaware of any repressive policies against moslems here in the United States.

The facts is that islam preaches violence against non-islamics. You refer to us as "infidels" and your koran preaches that we are a lower life form than moslems. Your koran allows infidels to be lied to, mistreated, even murdered. This is not indicative of a peaceful religion. This is more indicative of a violent cult.

You cannot win an argument when there are so many facts stacked against your view. I believe that you are sincere and that you WISH islam was a peaceful religion. But if you are ever able to take an objective view of the actions of moslems throughout the world, you will see that the facts do not support that assertion. If events continue along their present course much longer, the day will come when you will have to decide if you want to be a moslem or an American. Because, sadly, it appears that the two cannot be reconciled.

 

[freeandfun1]

STANDIN' "O"

 

[deaddude]

"Stephanie, I'm sure that by now you're frustrated with the apparent intransigence of those, like me, who refuse to accept your viewpoint.

Speaking for myself only, there is no way that you can convince me that islam is a religion of peace and brotherhood. Get a map of the world and place your finger on any landmass on the planet and it is likely that muslims are there murdering non-muslims. That is not indicative of a religion that has been "hijacked" by extremists. Instead, it is indicative of an extremist religion. Iran, under the ayatollah Khomeini is only one example. Muslim fanatics installed Khomeini as ruler in Iran and most paid for that with their lives. They were murdered by agents of the ayatollah or died in the wars he fomented. Libya, Syria, Sudan, Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Egypt, Iraq, Lebanon, all have islamic clerics who wield power to oppress the populace and seek to export their violence to other countries.

Moslems throughout the world murder their non-moslem countrymen. Africa, South America, the Phillipines, Indonesia, are just a few examples of moslem hatred and intolerance.

Now moslems have chosen to attack our country and have murdered thousands of our citizens. They have attacked our military. If moslems only resort to violence if prevented from practicing their religion, how do you explain the attacks not only on our country, but throughout the world? And why were millions of moslems rejoicing after the attack on the WTC? I am unaware of any repressive policies against moslems here in the United States.

The facts is that islam preaches violence against non-islamics. You refer to us as "infidels" and your koran preaches that we are a lower life form than moslems. Your koran allows infidels to be lied to, mistreated, even murdered. This is not indicative of a peaceful religion. This is more indicative of a violent cult.

You cannot win an argument when there are so many facts stacked against your view. I believe that you are sincere and that you WISH islam was a peaceful religion. But if you are ever able to take an objective view of the actions of moslems throughout the world, you will see that the facts do not support that assertion. If events continue along their present course much longer, the day will come when you will have to decide if you want to be a moslem or an American. Because, sadly, it appears that the two cannot be reconciled."

If it is Impossible to change your views on the subject, even slightly, and it is equally impossible to change the views of the other participants in this discussion then I believe the debate is pointless. If we are all so set in our beliefs then perhaps a compromise is in order. Skhaldi sees her self as a peaceful Muslim; she has the right to see her self that way as part of her freedom of opinion and her freedom of religion. You believe that all Islam is violent and that Skhaldi, being peaceful, is therefore a peaceful non-Muslim. You have the right to believe that as part of your freedom of opinion. You both have the right to post those opinions here as part of your freedom of speech. Posting them here, though it’s within your rights to do so, ends in useless argument, not useful debate.

 

[Comrade]

Originally posted by skhaldi
Islam does not teach the woman to be completely subserviant. You will see this by looking at the first wife of the prophet (peace be upon him) who was a strong business woman.

Stephanie,

My advice for when you debate here, is to look at what you are using specifically to support your argument in this case.

For example, I fail to see how the first marriage explains the dominate theme of subservance Mohammad demanded of all his wifes. What's more is the situation behind his many marriages, demonstrate the treatment of women as chattel and war booty, which rapidly led to a harem of wives of ages 6 and up. So if Islam is reflective of Mohammad's wives by your own words, please referece the following page for particular details, which seem to quote directly from the text in many respects.

Is this wife also demonstrative of Islam:


http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/abulkazem/holy_family.htm

"( 9) Safiyah Bint Huyay: She was a war booty. She was taken a captive after the slaughter in Khybar. In that battle, she lost her father, recently married husband and all other close relatives. This captured Jewish woman was given to a Muslim soldier called Dahia. However, when Mohammad saw her exquisite beauty she immediately bought her from Dahia and proposed to marry her. She was in a state of shock when brought to Mohammad. Safiyah's cousin sister was also brought along with Safiyah but Mohammad was not interested in her cousin as she was not that pretty. Safiyah had no choice but to marry Mohammad to save her life. She was 17 years old when she married the 60 years old Mohammad. She was with Mohammad for 4 years. She was 21 when the prophet of Islam died. She lived as a widow for the next 39 years. She died in 50 A.H (673 A.D.) at the age of 60."


Mohammad killed her Jewish husband and Jewish family and maybe he didn't legally rape her under Islam, but his soldier was certainly allowed to.

Is that representative of Islam?

In our society, we call that action a serious war crime, and rape and murder of civilians, Jewish or not, for religious reasons or not, is a capital crime and morally evil.

What about women as sex slaves?

"(13) Rayhana: She was not a real wife. She was a booty from a battle. She was a Jewish girl of extreme beauty; so, Mohammad proposed to marry her. However, she refused to covert to Islam and marries Mohammad. Therefore, she became a sex slave of Mohammad. However, in many places we get that he married her."

Same Jew with same dead family due to Islamic armies. Same situation except maybe or maybe not a marriage was consented to. That she refused must indicate she was strong spirited and independant. But she was raped anyway.

Is that representative of Islam?

I'd be willing to take the time to source you to my own research
on his various wives, and am actually surprised that you would share so little detail on your own prophet's marriages over his life, that is assuming you actually know more about the history than I, as a non-believer, have researched.