Israel arrests Jewish youths suspected of arson attack on Palestinian home that killed 3

[Coyote]

Interesting - after 4 months and still no certainty. Compare that to the murder of the 3 Israeli youths and how quickly justice was served. Will the family homes be demolished? I doubt it. What about those sheltering the killers? eh.

Israel announces arrests in arson attack that killed Palestinian toddler and parents

Four months after the arson assault that killed a Palestinian toddler and his parents, Israeli police on Thursday announced the arrest of several Jewish extremists suspected of belonging to a militant organization that carried out the attack and others.

The investigation, conducted by police, justice authorities and Shin Bet, the domestic intelligence service, was looking into “concrete suspicions” related to the fatal attack, the police statement said. All other information, including details that could identify the suspects, were barred from publication by a court-issued gag order...




...It also came after months of fierce criticism that Israel was not doing enough to apprehend the perpetrators — widely assumed to be Jewish extremists — and calls that Israel apply the same swift determination and harsh measures to Jewish attackers of Palestinians as it does to Palestinian attackers of Jews.

The criticism grew after Defense Minister Moshe Yaalon revealed several weeks ago that authorities knew the killers’ identities but could not indict them without compromising intelligence sources.

Former Shin Bet officials and observers of Jewish extremists frequently comment on the difficulty Israeli intelligence services have in solving attacks carried out by the small, highly insular circles that are virtually impenetrable.

According to Yisrael Hasson, a former deputy director of the Shin Bet who now heads the Israel Antiquities Authority, officials lack tools that would be allowed if such cases were legally defined as terrorism, such as special permission for more rigid interrogation. Also, security agencies often have the intelligence but have difficulty converting it into evidence sufficient for trial.

In a media interview, Hasson said he hoped this case would lead to an indictment and trial. But he noted that the wording of the police statement was vague, suggesting there was not enough solid evidence or a significant enough breakthrough in the investigation at this point.

Reiterating that investigators must be given adequate tools to deal with Jewish extremists, Hasson said, “We cannot leave our fate in the hands of such lunatic killers that are like any other terror organization.”

Asked whether homes of Jewish attackers should be demolished, as is sometimes done with Palestinians, Hasson expressed reservations about the practice.

“I believe it is effective only in very, very specific cases,” he said. “But if authorities think it is effective, then there should be a single standard and ruler for all murderers and terror.”​

witnesses vs no witnesses. Which is easier to investigate and prosecute in any country?

Do you really think there were no witness? Or that "witness" are sheltering the criminals? That's what the Palestinians are accused of doing but that doesn't stop the course of justice. There seems to be a huge difference here.

The Palestinians are found guilty every time of sheltering terrorists and criminals. They even use ambulances to carry weapons and terrorists around gaza.

So clearly, someone is sheltering the boys who burned alive that family.

 

[ogibillm]

Nothing will happen to the Israeli teens and certainly their parent's homes will not be bulldozed.

Palestinian rock throwers can be shot. Im sure the punishment for the israeli arsonists and murderers will be proportional...

(/sarcasm)

 

[Coyote]

Interesting - after 4 months and still no certainty. Compare that to the murder of the 3 Israeli youths and how quickly justice was served. Will the family homes be demolished? I doubt it. What about those sheltering the killers? eh.

Israel announces arrests in arson attack that killed Palestinian toddler and parents

Four months after the arson assault that killed a Palestinian toddler and his parents, Israeli police on Thursday announced the arrest of several Jewish extremists suspected of belonging to a militant organization that carried out the attack and others.

The investigation, conducted by police, justice authorities and Shin Bet, the domestic intelligence service, was looking into “concrete suspicions” related to the fatal attack, the police statement said. All other information, including details that could identify the suspects, were barred from publication by a court-issued gag order...




...It also came after months of fierce criticism that Israel was not doing enough to apprehend the perpetrators — widely assumed to be Jewish extremists — and calls that Israel apply the same swift determination and harsh measures to Jewish attackers of Palestinians as it does to Palestinian attackers of Jews.

The criticism grew after Defense Minister Moshe Yaalon revealed several weeks ago that authorities knew the killers’ identities but could not indict them without compromising intelligence sources.

Former Shin Bet officials and observers of Jewish extremists frequently comment on the difficulty Israeli intelligence services have in solving attacks carried out by the small, highly insular circles that are virtually impenetrable.

According to Yisrael Hasson, a former deputy director of the Shin Bet who now heads the Israel Antiquities Authority, officials lack tools that would be allowed if such cases were legally defined as terrorism, such as special permission for more rigid interrogation. Also, security agencies often have the intelligence but have difficulty converting it into evidence sufficient for trial.

In a media interview, Hasson said he hoped this case would lead to an indictment and trial. But he noted that the wording of the police statement was vague, suggesting there was not enough solid evidence or a significant enough breakthrough in the investigation at this point.

Reiterating that investigators must be given adequate tools to deal with Jewish extremists, Hasson said, “We cannot leave our fate in the hands of such lunatic killers that are like any other terror organization.”

Asked whether homes of Jewish attackers should be demolished, as is sometimes done with Palestinians, Hasson expressed reservations about the practice.

“I believe it is effective only in very, very specific cases,” he said. “But if authorities think it is effective, then there should be a single standard and ruler for all murderers and terror.”​

See how even when Israel does the right thing they are still damned by Nazis, Jew haters and anti semites, You cant compare the two cases as the IDF had evidence of the involvement of the Palestinian terrorist cell that carried out the murders, making it easier to arrest the culprits. In the case of the arson they had no evidence and just conjecture which would not hold up in court. now we will see a just trial and the imposing of harsh sentences. Now when will the Palestinians start to arrest the terrorists known to fire illegal weapons at Israel, instead of giving them a lucrative pension and elevating them as hero's ?

I applaud Israel when it does the right thing (for example when they arrested the boys who burned the Palestinian teen alive). In this case, the politics of the settlements interfere with justice. They are routinely treated with kid gloves and you can read, even in this article - the frustration authorities have in trying to get a handle on Jewish terrorism in the settlements.

 

[ogibillm]

Interesting - after 4 months and still no certainty. Compare that to the murder of the 3 Israeli youths and how quickly justice was served. Will the family homes be demolished? I doubt it. What about those sheltering the killers? eh.

Israel announces arrests in arson attack that killed Palestinian toddler and parents

Four months after the arson assault that killed a Palestinian toddler and his parents, Israeli police on Thursday announced the arrest of several Jewish extremists suspected of belonging to a militant organization that carried out the attack and others.

The investigation, conducted by police, justice authorities and Shin Bet, the domestic intelligence service, was looking into “concrete suspicions” related to the fatal attack, the police statement said. All other information, including details that could identify the suspects, were barred from publication by a court-issued gag order...




...It also came after months of fierce criticism that Israel was not doing enough to apprehend the perpetrators — widely assumed to be Jewish extremists — and calls that Israel apply the same swift determination and harsh measures to Jewish attackers of Palestinians as it does to Palestinian attackers of Jews.

The criticism grew after Defense Minister Moshe Yaalon revealed several weeks ago that authorities knew the killers’ identities but could not indict them without compromising intelligence sources.

Former Shin Bet officials and observers of Jewish extremists frequently comment on the difficulty Israeli intelligence services have in solving attacks carried out by the small, highly insular circles that are virtually impenetrable.

According to Yisrael Hasson, a former deputy director of the Shin Bet who now heads the Israel Antiquities Authority, officials lack tools that would be allowed if such cases were legally defined as terrorism, such as special permission for more rigid interrogation. Also, security agencies often have the intelligence but have difficulty converting it into evidence sufficient for trial.

In a media interview, Hasson said he hoped this case would lead to an indictment and trial. But he noted that the wording of the police statement was vague, suggesting there was not enough solid evidence or a significant enough breakthrough in the investigation at this point.

Reiterating that investigators must be given adequate tools to deal with Jewish extremists, Hasson said, “We cannot leave our fate in the hands of such lunatic killers that are like any other terror organization.”

Asked whether homes of Jewish attackers should be demolished, as is sometimes done with Palestinians, Hasson expressed reservations about the practice.

“I believe it is effective only in very, very specific cases,” he said. “But if authorities think it is effective, then there should be a single standard and ruler for all murderers and terror.”​

See how even when Israel does the right thing they are still damned by Nazis, Jew haters and anti semites, You cant compare the two cases as the IDF had evidence of the involvement of the Palestinian terrorist cell that carried out the murders, making it easier to arrest the culprits. In the case of the arson they had no evidence and just conjecture which would not hold up in court. now we will see a just trial and the imposing of harsh sentences. Now when will the Palestinians start to arrest the terrorists known to fire illegal weapons at Israel, instead of giving them a lucrative pension and elevating them as hero's ?

I applaud Israel when it does the right thing (for example when they arrested the boys who burned the Palestinian teen alive). In this case, the politics of the settlements interfere with justice. They are routinely treated with kid gloves and you can read, even in this article - the frustration authorities have in trying to get a handle on Jewish terrorism in the settlements.

We can be sure that their homes will not be bulldozed. There is no point. They are already israeli homes

 

[Coyote]

In the US it could take years to arrest or bring charges to crimes.

It i not always so simple to determine who or why, or accident vs intended attack such as arson.

You are upset by a rush to judgement when there is an attack of terrorism with car or knife but Israel takes too long to determine who is involved in arson?

Every crime is different and through there were suspects for arson, the problem was which people of the settlement or group was responsible not just someone there was the likely perpetrator.

Weeks and months the Paris massacre will still be under investigation, but you expect the arsonists to be found the next day? Even determining arson can take awhile. You're not talking about homes with safety inspections every two days and insulated latest wiring and smoke detectors required. We lived for years with wire taped to the ceiling and going in and out of windows for light and plugs. Homes built before there was electricity in most towns and people frequently stealing from neighbors and even street lights sometimes. Israel, especially the west bank is not so different than Lebanon was, and in some cases still is. I was wiring and fixing plugs and switches at my grandmothers summer home since I was around eight. Even so power in the village was intermittent and many homes had signs of electrical fires or burnt plugs.

Just because palestinians jump to the conclusion of arson does not mean there was immediate proof or that a culprit was known. It helps the case to have evidence that won't be thrown out in court.

I just notice this Aris - when it's a crime by a Palistinian on a Jew - how long does it take to bring the criminal to justice? When it's a crime by a Jew on a Palestinian...how long?

All stops are pulled out when there the perpetrator is Palestinian. Read the news stories. Is it because legal cases against Palistinians require a lower threshold for evidence?

In this particular case - it IS arson. There is no question. Molotov cocktails were thrown in the window. The authorities were never in doubt.

Depends on the crime, witnesses, evidence and access to the "crime site". Fires are terrible places with people trampling through everything and signs and evidence often destroyed. Fire in concrete and stone building don't show the same signs of starting point that wood rooms do.

Apparently the Israelis did eventually find cause to charge particular individuals for the fire...............but you're not satisfied? How fast do the palestinans authorities bring charges or turn over those who are guilty of crimes against Israeli citizens. Palestinians leaders go on TV and praise the attacks and call for more to take place. Kids are out there stabbing at civilians and police, and getting themselves killed in the process. Palestinians are celebrating them. Media talks of them being shot before they get around to the fact they were carrying out stabbing terrorist attacks. Israel is blamed for responding and the palestinians become victims. Ho does that make sense, and you are upset by a few months to bring charges in an arson case? Israel needed evidence for the charges. A terrorist attack in the middle of the day at a crowded location, the evidence is less elusive.

Do you have any idea how many oil lamps are still used across the region? How hard to determine who threw or exactly what fuel is used and when it was obtained? Just saying settlers were responsible does not indicate which ones are guilty and what evidence will prove the case against them. The possibility that it was local palestinians had to be eliminated. Staged and falsified attacks to blame Israelis has happened often enough in the past. All angles had to be looked into for a valid case to be filed.

Do you realize there are cases in the US decades old that have not brought charges because of lack of proof? There are cases going back to colonial times that are only now being solved. Innocent are also being released based on new evidence or testing. It works both ways.

Be glad they found enough evidence, not upset because if took a few months. Did you happen to notice the police are a tad busy with terrorism and protecting civilians in Israel? You assumed Israel had unlimited resources and could see and know all things like a god to bring charges within the hour? It could have been they were just a bit busy with other emergencies as well. There are terrorist attack almost daily and others they stop before they even take place. In most cases the prevention and limiting damage ongoing to victims is just a bit higher than investigating a crime that has already taken place like a fire.

Just say, arson suspects found after investigation.

Four months is not a "rush to judgement".

Look how quickly the perpetrators of Palestinian on Israeli crimes are found and adjudicated.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/03/w...-be-often-uneven-among-palestinian-cases.html

After Arson Murders, West Bank Village Waits in Vain for Justice - News

Many Palestinians say the violence is the result of a long-standing but unofficial policy of leniency in the West Bank that strives to placate and thereby effectively reward settlers rather than confront their extremist elements.


A 2013 report by the state comptroller found that Israel’s civil administration in the West Bank fails to enforce planning laws because of the fear of “stiff opposition” from the settlers. When settlers violate such laws, the report found, authorities forgo criminal prosecutions.


Over the past year, “price taggers” have shifted from vandalizing properties and uprooting Palestinian olive trees to attacks that aim to inflict physical harm, said Udi Levy, chief commander of the task force against West Bank settler violence.


Levy denies claims that his unit and other security forces take the crimes lightly. Thanks to substantial resources they have been given, those under his command have successfully deterred many attacks, he said, and accumulated an “intimate knowledge” of the radical cells of “hilltop youth,” who seek to occupy West Bank hilltops and intimidate the surrounding Palestinian villages.


According to Levy, 70% of the Price Tag perpetrators his unit has arrested in the past two years are minors, some even younger than 14. “Many of [them] are living on these hilltops, disconnected from their families and attracted to the ideology,” Levy told the Forward. He estimated their numbers in the dozens, or as high as about 150. But as the Duma arson made clear, even small groups can inflict great damage.


The mostly young men know the loopholes in the law and the techniques for maintaining silence during an interrogation, but Levy said that one of the greatest challenges in bringing them to justice is that “the courts see them as children.”


In contrast, an Israeli law introduced in July imposes a sentence of up to 20 years in prison for stone throwing by Palestinians, many of whom are youngsters or teenagers. In the case of Palestinian terror attacks, the Israel Defense Forces has responded with house raids, road closures, mass roundups and other methods that critics say are forms of collective punishment.​

 

[Coyote]

Bringing aarson takes a while. If it was as you insist, it would never come out at all

It doesn't "take a while" when the perpetrator is Palestinian does it?

Nine Palestinian suspects arrested in Molotov cocktail attack - JerusalemOnline

It has been cleared for publication that nine Palestinian men suspected of throwing three Molotov cocktails at a vehicle in northern Jerusalem three weeks ago have been arrested. ​

Police arrest cell allegedly behind Molotov cocktail attacks on Highway 6

Police announced Thursday that they have arrested a cell responsible for throwing Molotov cocktails and stones at Highway 6 in recent weeks.

The suspects, most of whom are minors, are Israeli Arabs from the town of Bir a-Sika near Route 6 in the Triangle area of central Israel.​

 

[aris2chat]

In the US it could take years to arrest or bring charges to crimes.

It i not always so simple to determine who or why, or accident vs intended attack such as arson.

You are upset by a rush to judgement when there is an attack of terrorism with car or knife but Israel takes too long to determine who is involved in arson?

Every crime is different and through there were suspects for arson, the problem was which people of the settlement or group was responsible not just someone there was the likely perpetrator.

Weeks and months the Paris massacre will still be under investigation, but you expect the arsonists to be found the next day? Even determining arson can take awhile. You're not talking about homes with safety inspections every two days and insulated latest wiring and smoke detectors required. We lived for years with wire taped to the ceiling and going in and out of windows for light and plugs. Homes built before there was electricity in most towns and people frequently stealing from neighbors and even street lights sometimes. Israel, especially the west bank is not so different than Lebanon was, and in some cases still is. I was wiring and fixing plugs and switches at my grandmothers summer home since I was around eight. Even so power in the village was intermittent and many homes had signs of electrical fires or burnt plugs.

Just because palestinians jump to the conclusion of arson does not mean there was immediate proof or that a culprit was known. It helps the case to have evidence that won't be thrown out in court.

I just notice this Aris - when it's a crime by a Palistinian on a Jew - how long does it take to bring the criminal to justice? When it's a crime by a Jew on a Palestinian...how long?

All stops are pulled out when there the perpetrator is Palestinian. Read the news stories. Is it because legal cases against Palistinians require a lower threshold for evidence?

In this particular case - it IS arson. There is no question. Molotov cocktails were thrown in the window. The authorities were never in doubt.

Depends on the crime, witnesses, evidence and access to the "crime site". Fires are terrible places with people trampling through everything and signs and evidence often destroyed. Fire in concrete and stone building don't show the same signs of starting point that wood rooms do.

Apparently the Israelis did eventually find cause to charge particular individuals for the fire...............but you're not satisfied? How fast do the palestinans authorities bring charges or turn over those who are guilty of crimes against Israeli citizens. Palestinians leaders go on TV and praise the attacks and call for more to take place. Kids are out there stabbing at civilians and police, and getting themselves killed in the process. Palestinians are celebrating them. Media talks of them being shot before they get around to the fact they were carrying out stabbing terrorist attacks. Israel is blamed for responding and the palestinians become victims. Ho does that make sense, and you are upset by a few months to bring charges in an arson case? Israel needed evidence for the charges. A terrorist attack in the middle of the day at a crowded location, the evidence is less elusive.

Do you have any idea how many oil lamps are still used across the region? How hard to determine who threw or exactly what fuel is used and when it was obtained? Just saying settlers were responsible does not indicate which ones are guilty and what evidence will prove the case against them. The possibility that it was local palestinians had to be eliminated. Staged and falsified attacks to blame Israelis has happened often enough in the past. All angles had to be looked into for a valid case to be filed.

Do you realize there are cases in the US decades old that have not brought charges because of lack of proof? There are cases going back to colonial times that are only now being solved. Innocent are also being released based on new evidence or testing. It works both ways.

Be glad they found enough evidence, not upset because if took a few months. Did you happen to notice the police are a tad busy with terrorism and protecting civilians in Israel? You assumed Israel had unlimited resources and could see and know all things like a god to bring charges within the hour? It could have been they were just a bit busy with other emergencies as well. There are terrorist attack almost daily and others they stop before they even take place. In most cases the prevention and limiting damage ongoing to victims is just a bit higher than investigating a crime that has already taken place like a fire.

Just say, arson suspects found after investigation.

Four months is not a "rush to judgement".

Look how quickly the perpetrators of Palestinian on Israeli crimes are found and adjudicated.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/03/w...-be-often-uneven-among-palestinian-cases.html

After Arson Murders, West Bank Village Waits in Vain for Justice - News

Many Palestinians say the violence is the result of a long-standing but unofficial policy of leniency in the West Bank that strives to placate and thereby effectively reward settlers rather than confront their extremist elements.


A 2013 report by the state comptroller found that Israel’s civil administration in the West Bank fails to enforce planning laws because of the fear of “stiff opposition” from the settlers. When settlers violate such laws, the report found, authorities forgo criminal prosecutions.


Over the past year, “price taggers” have shifted from vandalizing properties and uprooting Palestinian olive trees to attacks that aim to inflict physical harm, said Udi Levy, chief commander of the task force against West Bank settler violence.


Levy denies claims that his unit and other security forces take the crimes lightly. Thanks to substantial resources they have been given, those under his command have successfully deterred many attacks, he said, and accumulated an “intimate knowledge” of the radical cells of “hilltop youth,” who seek to occupy West Bank hilltops and intimidate the surrounding Palestinian villages.


According to Levy, 70% of the Price Tag perpetrators his unit has arrested in the past two years are minors, some even younger than 14. “Many of [them] are living on these hilltops, disconnected from their families and attracted to the ideology,” Levy told the Forward. He estimated their numbers in the dozens, or as high as about 150. But as the Duma arson made clear, even small groups can inflict great damage.


The mostly young men know the loopholes in the law and the techniques for maintaining silence during an interrogation, but Levy said that one of the greatest challenges in bringing them to justice is that “the courts see them as children.”


In contrast, an Israeli law introduced in July imposes a sentence of up to 20 years in prison for stone throwing by Palestinians, many of whom are youngsters or teenagers. In the case of Palestinian terror attacks, the Israel Defense Forces has responded with house raids, road closures, mass roundups and other methods that critics say are forms of collective punishment.​

It is one thing to say the culprit came from this group or area but finding the individual and proof takes longer.
Four months is not bad for a case. Sorry but everything cannot be wrapped up in and hour like law and order.
It might take days, weeks, months and even years.

 

[ogibillm]

In the US it could take years to arrest or bring charges to crimes.

It i not always so simple to determine who or why, or accident vs intended attack such as arson.

You are upset by a rush to judgement when there is an attack of terrorism with car or knife but Israel takes too long to determine who is involved in arson?

Every crime is different and through there were suspects for arson, the problem was which people of the settlement or group was responsible not just someone there was the likely perpetrator.

Weeks and months the Paris massacre will still be under investigation, but you expect the arsonists to be found the next day? Even determining arson can take awhile. You're not talking about homes with safety inspections every two days and insulated latest wiring and smoke detectors required. We lived for years with wire taped to the ceiling and going in and out of windows for light and plugs. Homes built before there was electricity in most towns and people frequently stealing from neighbors and even street lights sometimes. Israel, especially the west bank is not so different than Lebanon was, and in some cases still is. I was wiring and fixing plugs and switches at my grandmothers summer home since I was around eight. Even so power in the village was intermittent and many homes had signs of electrical fires or burnt plugs.

Just because palestinians jump to the conclusion of arson does not mean there was immediate proof or that a culprit was known. It helps the case to have evidence that won't be thrown out in court.

I just notice this Aris - when it's a crime by a Palistinian on a Jew - how long does it take to bring the criminal to justice? When it's a crime by a Jew on a Palestinian...how long?

All stops are pulled out when there the perpetrator is Palestinian. Read the news stories. Is it because legal cases against Palistinians require a lower threshold for evidence?

In this particular case - it IS arson. There is no question. Molotov cocktails were thrown in the window. The authorities were never in doubt.

Depends on the crime, witnesses, evidence and access to the "crime site". Fires are terrible places with people trampling through everything and signs and evidence often destroyed. Fire in concrete and stone building don't show the same signs of starting point that wood rooms do.

Apparently the Israelis did eventually find cause to charge particular individuals for the fire...............but you're not satisfied? How fast do the palestinans authorities bring charges or turn over those who are guilty of crimes against Israeli citizens. Palestinians leaders go on TV and praise the attacks and call for more to take place. Kids are out there stabbing at civilians and police, and getting themselves killed in the process. Palestinians are celebrating them. Media talks of them being shot before they get around to the fact they were carrying out stabbing terrorist attacks. Israel is blamed for responding and the palestinians become victims. Ho does that make sense, and you are upset by a few months to bring charges in an arson case? Israel needed evidence for the charges. A terrorist attack in the middle of the day at a crowded location, the evidence is less elusive.

Do you have any idea how many oil lamps are still used across the region? How hard to determine who threw or exactly what fuel is used and when it was obtained? Just saying settlers were responsible does not indicate which ones are guilty and what evidence will prove the case against them. The possibility that it was local palestinians had to be eliminated. Staged and falsified attacks to blame Israelis has happened often enough in the past. All angles had to be looked into for a valid case to be filed.

Do you realize there are cases in the US decades old that have not brought charges because of lack of proof? There are cases going back to colonial times that are only now being solved. Innocent are also being released based on new evidence or testing. It works both ways.

Be glad they found enough evidence, not upset because if took a few months. Did you happen to notice the police are a tad busy with terrorism and protecting civilians in Israel? You assumed Israel had unlimited resources and could see and know all things like a god to bring charges within the hour? It could have been they were just a bit busy with other emergencies as well. There are terrorist attack almost daily and others they stop before they even take place. In most cases the prevention and limiting damage ongoing to victims is just a bit higher than investigating a crime that has already taken place like a fire.

Just say, arson suspects found after investigation.

Four months is not a "rush to judgement".

Look how quickly the perpetrators of Palestinian on Israeli crimes are found and adjudicated.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/03/w...-be-often-uneven-among-palestinian-cases.html

After Arson Murders, West Bank Village Waits in Vain for Justice - News

Many Palestinians say the violence is the result of a long-standing but unofficial policy of leniency in the West Bank that strives to placate and thereby effectively reward settlers rather than confront their extremist elements.


A 2013 report by the state comptroller found that Israel’s civil administration in the West Bank fails to enforce planning laws because of the fear of “stiff opposition” from the settlers. When settlers violate such laws, the report found, authorities forgo criminal prosecutions.


Over the past year, “price taggers” have shifted from vandalizing properties and uprooting Palestinian olive trees to attacks that aim to inflict physical harm, said Udi Levy, chief commander of the task force against West Bank settler violence.


Levy denies claims that his unit and other security forces take the crimes lightly. Thanks to substantial resources they have been given, those under his command have successfully deterred many attacks, he said, and accumulated an “intimate knowledge” of the radical cells of “hilltop youth,” who seek to occupy West Bank hilltops and intimidate the surrounding Palestinian villages.


According to Levy, 70% of the Price Tag perpetrators his unit has arrested in the past two years are minors, some even younger than 14. “Many of [them] are living on these hilltops, disconnected from their families and attracted to the ideology,” Levy told the Forward. He estimated their numbers in the dozens, or as high as about 150. But as the Duma arson made clear, even small groups can inflict great damage.


The mostly young men know the loopholes in the law and the techniques for maintaining silence during an interrogation, but Levy said that one of the greatest challenges in bringing them to justice is that “the courts see them as children.”


In contrast, an Israeli law introduced in July imposes a sentence of up to 20 years in prison for stone throwing by Palestinians, many of whom are youngsters or teenagers. In the case of Palestinian terror attacks, the Israel Defense Forces has responded with house raids, road closures, mass roundups and other methods that critics say are forms of collective punishment.​

It is one thing to say the culprit came from this group or area but finding the individual and proof takes longer.
Four months is not bad for a case. Sorry but everything cannot be wrapped up in and hour like law and order.
It might take days, weeks, months and even years.

If only they were Palestinians suspected of throwing rocks - they could have been summarily executed without the need for evidence

 

[Coyote]

In the US it could take years to arrest or bring charges to crimes.

It i not always so simple to determine who or why, or accident vs intended attack such as arson.

You are upset by a rush to judgement when there is an attack of terrorism with car or knife but Israel takes too long to determine who is involved in arson?

Every crime is different and through there were suspects for arson, the problem was which people of the settlement or group was responsible not just someone there was the likely perpetrator.

Weeks and months the Paris massacre will still be under investigation, but you expect the arsonists to be found the next day? Even determining arson can take awhile. You're not talking about homes with safety inspections every two days and insulated latest wiring and smoke detectors required. We lived for years with wire taped to the ceiling and going in and out of windows for light and plugs. Homes built before there was electricity in most towns and people frequently stealing from neighbors and even street lights sometimes. Israel, especially the west bank is not so different than Lebanon was, and in some cases still is. I was wiring and fixing plugs and switches at my grandmothers summer home since I was around eight. Even so power in the village was intermittent and many homes had signs of electrical fires or burnt plugs.

Just because palestinians jump to the conclusion of arson does not mean there was immediate proof or that a culprit was known. It helps the case to have evidence that won't be thrown out in court.

I just notice this Aris - when it's a crime by a Palistinian on a Jew - how long does it take to bring the criminal to justice? When it's a crime by a Jew on a Palestinian...how long?

All stops are pulled out when there the perpetrator is Palestinian. Read the news stories. Is it because legal cases against Palistinians require a lower threshold for evidence?

In this particular case - it IS arson. There is no question. Molotov cocktails were thrown in the window. The authorities were never in doubt.

Depends on the crime, witnesses, evidence and access to the "crime site". Fires are terrible places with people trampling through everything and signs and evidence often destroyed. Fire in concrete and stone building don't show the same signs of starting point that wood rooms do.

Apparently the Israelis did eventually find cause to charge particular individuals for the fire...............but you're not satisfied? How fast do the palestinans authorities bring charges or turn over those who are guilty of crimes against Israeli citizens. Palestinians leaders go on TV and praise the attacks and call for more to take place. Kids are out there stabbing at civilians and police, and getting themselves killed in the process. Palestinians are celebrating them. Media talks of them being shot before they get around to the fact they were carrying out stabbing terrorist attacks. Israel is blamed for responding and the palestinians become victims. Ho does that make sense, and you are upset by a few months to bring charges in an arson case? Israel needed evidence for the charges. A terrorist attack in the middle of the day at a crowded location, the evidence is less elusive.

Do you have any idea how many oil lamps are still used across the region? How hard to determine who threw or exactly what fuel is used and when it was obtained? Just saying settlers were responsible does not indicate which ones are guilty and what evidence will prove the case against them. The possibility that it was local palestinians had to be eliminated. Staged and falsified attacks to blame Israelis has happened often enough in the past. All angles had to be looked into for a valid case to be filed.

Do you realize there are cases in the US decades old that have not brought charges because of lack of proof? There are cases going back to colonial times that are only now being solved. Innocent are also being released based on new evidence or testing. It works both ways.

Be glad they found enough evidence, not upset because if took a few months. Did you happen to notice the police are a tad busy with terrorism and protecting civilians in Israel? You assumed Israel had unlimited resources and could see and know all things like a god to bring charges within the hour? It could have been they were just a bit busy with other emergencies as well. There are terrorist attack almost daily and others they stop before they even take place. In most cases the prevention and limiting damage ongoing to victims is just a bit higher than investigating a crime that has already taken place like a fire.

Just say, arson suspects found after investigation.

Four months is not a "rush to judgement".

Look how quickly the perpetrators of Palestinian on Israeli crimes are found and adjudicated.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/03/w...-be-often-uneven-among-palestinian-cases.html

After Arson Murders, West Bank Village Waits in Vain for Justice - News

Many Palestinians say the violence is the result of a long-standing but unofficial policy of leniency in the West Bank that strives to placate and thereby effectively reward settlers rather than confront their extremist elements.


A 2013 report by the state comptroller found that Israel’s civil administration in the West Bank fails to enforce planning laws because of the fear of “stiff opposition” from the settlers. When settlers violate such laws, the report found, authorities forgo criminal prosecutions.


Over the past year, “price taggers” have shifted from vandalizing properties and uprooting Palestinian olive trees to attacks that aim to inflict physical harm, said Udi Levy, chief commander of the task force against West Bank settler violence.


Levy denies claims that his unit and other security forces take the crimes lightly. Thanks to substantial resources they have been given, those under his command have successfully deterred many attacks, he said, and accumulated an “intimate knowledge” of the radical cells of “hilltop youth,” who seek to occupy West Bank hilltops and intimidate the surrounding Palestinian villages.


According to Levy, 70% of the Price Tag perpetrators his unit has arrested in the past two years are minors, some even younger than 14. “Many of [them] are living on these hilltops, disconnected from their families and attracted to the ideology,” Levy told the Forward. He estimated their numbers in the dozens, or as high as about 150. But as the Duma arson made clear, even small groups can inflict great damage.


The mostly young men know the loopholes in the law and the techniques for maintaining silence during an interrogation, but Levy said that one of the greatest challenges in bringing them to justice is that “the courts see them as children.”


In contrast, an Israeli law introduced in July imposes a sentence of up to 20 years in prison for stone throwing by Palestinians, many of whom are youngsters or teenagers. In the case of Palestinian terror attacks, the Israel Defense Forces has responded with house raids, road closures, mass roundups and other methods that critics say are forms of collective punishment.​

It is one thing to say the culprit came from this group or area but finding the individual and proof takes longer.
Four months is not bad for a case. Sorry but everything cannot be wrapped up in and hour like law and order.
It might take days, weeks, months and even years.

You keep dancing around the facts - when it's a Palestinian crime of violence on an Israeli - it does not take "4 months" typically. It is often resolved in weeks. IF you read the article I quoted, it points out the difficulties in making arrests in that community and those difficulties are more political than law enforcement.

 

[aris2chat]

Maybe that is not entirely fair - they did arrest the teens who burned the 16 yr old Palestinian boy alive - and that was done fairly quickly.

After the mass murder of the Fogel family and beheading of their infant the Palestinians celebrated ! Tell us when the PLO arrested them. You have the Chutzpah to condemn the Israelis ?

Oh yes - let's not condemn the Israeli's for they can do no wrong.

It is not about them doing no wrong, but everything that happens in the world should not be the sole blame of Israel.

Go back to what triggered the original attack
go back to the three teens that were kidnapped and killed, or to the increased attack on other Israelis that year.

Considering how busy the Israeli police are, its commendable that it took only four months to bring charges in the arson.

 

[ogibillm]

Maybe that is not entirely fair - they did arrest the teens who burned the 16 yr old Palestinian boy alive - and that was done fairly quickly.

After the mass murder of the Fogel family and beheading of their infant the Palestinians celebrated ! Tell us when the PLO arrested them. You have the Chutzpah to condemn the Israelis ?

Oh yes - let's not condemn the Israeli's for they can do no wrong.

It is not about them doing no wrong, but everything that happens in the world should not be the sole blame of Israel.

Go back to what triggered the original attack
go back to the three teens that were kidnapped and killed, or to the increased attack on other Israelis that year.

Considering how busy the Israeli police are, its commendable that it took only four months to bring charges in the arson.

If everything took four months you'd have a point. Somehow when the perpetrators are Palestinian and the victims israeli it takes much less time

 

[docmauser1]

It doesn't "take a while" when the perpetrator is Palestinian does it?

Self-advertizing has that unintended consequence, of course. The US criminal lawyers should give that "proportionality" concept a more serious consideration in criminal cases, like countersuing departments for SWAT "disproportionate response", indeed.

 

[docmauser1]

If only they were Palestinians suspected of throwing rocks - they could have been summarily executed without the need for evidence

The law of unintended consequences strikes again, doesn't it? Do palistanian handlers package rock-hurling as a fun ride? Anyway, who cares? It's the will of allah.

 

[Coyote]

Maybe that is not entirely fair - they did arrest the teens who burned the 16 yr old Palestinian boy alive - and that was done fairly quickly.

After the mass murder of the Fogel family and beheading of their infant the Palestinians celebrated ! Tell us when the PLO arrested them. You have the Chutzpah to condemn the Israelis ?

Oh yes - let's not condemn the Israeli's for they can do no wrong.

It is not about them doing no wrong, but everything that happens in the world should not be the sole blame of Israel.

Go back to what triggered the original attack
go back to the three teens that were kidnapped and killed, or to the increased attack on other Israelis that year.

Considering how busy the Israeli police are, its commendable that it took only four months to bring charges in the arson.

It's not commendable when compared to their arrest rates when the criminal is a Palestinian. It did not take 4 months to determine it was arson - that was determined extremely quickly. Molotov cocktails would tend to leave evidence.

It doesn't do much good to look at what triggered the attacks - the Israeli's and Palestinians have been attacking each other for decades - who did what first is irrelevent and seems like a form of justifying the attacks.

 

[Lipush]

Interesting - after 4 months and still no certainty. Compare that to the murder of the 3 Israeli youths and how quickly justice was served. Will the family homes be demolished? I doubt it. What about those sheltering the killers? eh.

Israel announces arrests in arson attack that killed Palestinian toddler and parents

Four months after the arson assault that killed a Palestinian toddler and his parents, Israeli police on Thursday announced the arrest of several Jewish extremists suspected of belonging to a militant organization that carried out the attack and others.

The investigation, conducted by police, justice authorities and Shin Bet, the domestic intelligence service, was looking into “concrete suspicions” related to the fatal attack, the police statement said. All other information, including details that could identify the suspects, were barred from publication by a court-issued gag order...




...It also came after months of fierce criticism that Israel was not doing enough to apprehend the perpetrators — widely assumed to be Jewish extremists — and calls that Israel apply the same swift determination and harsh measures to Jewish attackers of Palestinians as it does to Palestinian attackers of Jews.

The criticism grew after Defense Minister Moshe Yaalon revealed several weeks ago that authorities knew the killers’ identities but could not indict them without compromising intelligence sources.

Former Shin Bet officials and observers of Jewish extremists frequently comment on the difficulty Israeli intelligence services have in solving attacks carried out by the small, highly insular circles that are virtually impenetrable.

According to Yisrael Hasson, a former deputy director of the Shin Bet who now heads the Israel Antiquities Authority, officials lack tools that would be allowed if such cases were legally defined as terrorism, such as special permission for more rigid interrogation. Also, security agencies often have the intelligence but have difficulty converting it into evidence sufficient for trial.

In a media interview, Hasson said he hoped this case would lead to an indictment and trial. But he noted that the wording of the police statement was vague, suggesting there was not enough solid evidence or a significant enough breakthrough in the investigation at this point.

Reiterating that investigators must be given adequate tools to deal with Jewish extremists, Hasson said, “We cannot leave our fate in the hands of such lunatic killers that are like any other terror organization.”

Asked whether homes of Jewish attackers should be demolished, as is sometimes done with Palestinians, Hasson expressed reservations about the practice.

“I believe it is effective only in very, very specific cases,” he said. “But if authorities think it is effective, then there should be a single standard and ruler for all murderers and terror.”​

There is too much inconsistency going on in this case, that's why they're not sure. There were terror attacks that were not solved for years. But utleast we're at it like a dog with a bone. Unlike it would have been if the tables were turned.

 

[Fishlore]

It is illogical and unfair to equate violent attacks by Israelis and Palestinians. The Israelis are citizens of a sovereign state which is using its armed might (paid for by the USA, btw) to illegally occupy and illegally annex foreign territory, suppressing the local population in the process.

The Palestinians are stateless people without any military or police force to protect them whose land has been invaded and occupied by a colonizing Western power claiming the land belongs to the world's Jews because God handed it out three thousand years ago. Not a peep out of God to support the claim since the Romans chased the Jews out almost two thousand years ago.

It wasn't the Palestinians who attacked the Jews in 1967. The Palestinians have never had an army. The whole world has condemned Israel for its violations of human rights and international law. Only by hiding behind Uncle Sam has Israel avoided the sanctions which will eventually bring the pariah state to its knees.

 

[Lipush]

In the US it could take years to arrest or bring charges to crimes.

It i not always so simple to determine who or why, or accident vs intended attack such as arson.

You are upset by a rush to judgement when there is an attack of terrorism with car or knife but Israel takes too long to determine who is involved in arson?

Every crime is different and through there were suspects for arson, the problem was which people of the settlement or group was responsible not just someone there was the likely perpetrator.

Weeks and months the Paris massacre will still be under investigation, but you expect the arsonists to be found the next day? Even determining arson can take awhile. You're not talking about homes with safety inspections every two days and insulated latest wiring and smoke detectors required. We lived for years with wire taped to the ceiling and going in and out of windows for light and plugs. Homes built before there was electricity in most towns and people frequently stealing from neighbors and even street lights sometimes. Israel, especially the west bank is not so different than Lebanon was, and in some cases still is. I was wiring and fixing plugs and switches at my grandmothers summer home since I was around eight. Even so power in the village was intermittent and many homes had signs of electrical fires or burnt plugs.

Just because palestinians jump to the conclusion of arson does not mean there was immediate proof or that a culprit was known. It helps the case to have evidence that won't be thrown out in court.

I just notice this Aris - when it's a crime by a Palistinian on a Jew - how long does it take to bring the criminal to justice? When it's a crime by a Jew on a Palestinian...how long?

All stops are pulled out when there the perpetrator is Palestinian. Read the news stories. Is it because legal cases against Palistinians require a lower threshold for evidence?

In this particular case - it IS arson. There is no question. Molotov cocktails were thrown in the window. The authorities were never in doubt.

So you will be able to provide the evidence of this by showing the lengths of time taken to prosecute the terrorists/criminals. Remember that most Palestinians are never caught unless they are seen doing the crime.

You've actually asked me this in another thread and I answered providing information on arrests and prosecution rates. When it comes to murder - Israeli's pull out all stops when the culprit is a Palestinian. The Fogel family, the 3 kidnapped boys....etc.

The Fogel family case left the Israeli public with a thirst for retribution, and the authorities were in tune with the people. Sue us.

 

[Lipush]

It is illogical and unfair to equate violent attacks by Israelis and Palestinians. The Israelis are citizens of a sovereign state which is using its armed might (paid for by the USA, btw) to illegally occupy and illegally annex foreign territory, suppressing the local population in the process.

The Palestinians are stateless people without any military or police force to protect them whose land has been invaded and occupied by a colonizing Western power claiming the land belongs to the world's Jews because God handed it out three thousand years ago. Not a peep out of God to support the claim since the Romans chased the Jews out almost two thousand years ago.

It wasn't the Palestinians who attacked the Jews in 1967. The Palestinians have never had an army. The whole world has condemned Israel for its violations of human rights and international law. Only by hiding behind Uncle Sam has Israel avoided the sanctions which will eventually bring the pariah state to its knees.

It's not illogical or fair to compare the two. The Ramallah lynch, the murder of Shalhevet pass, the Itamar Massacre, the Netanya Hotel Massacre, The slaying of Helena Rapp, the attack on road 12.... (just you name it)

In each and every one of those acts the Palestinians have showed to have no morals, sympathy, or humanity, whatsoever. Occupation my ass. Look those things up, tell me then that those who do such things deserve to have a state of their own where they can LEGALLY butcher Jews.

 

[Lipush]

Interesting - after 4 months and still no certainty. Compare that to the murder of the 3 Israeli youths and how quickly justice was served. Will the family homes be demolished? I doubt it. What about those sheltering the killers? eh.

Israel announces arrests in arson attack that killed Palestinian toddler and parents

Four months after the arson assault that killed a Palestinian toddler and his parents, Israeli police on Thursday announced the arrest of several Jewish extremists suspected of belonging to a militant organization that carried out the attack and others.

The investigation, conducted by police, justice authorities and Shin Bet, the domestic intelligence service, was looking into “concrete suspicions” related to the fatal attack, the police statement said. All other information, including details that could identify the suspects, were barred from publication by a court-issued gag order...




...It also came after months of fierce criticism that Israel was not doing enough to apprehend the perpetrators — widely assumed to be Jewish extremists — and calls that Israel apply the same swift determination and harsh measures to Jewish attackers of Palestinians as it does to Palestinian attackers of Jews.

The criticism grew after Defense Minister Moshe Yaalon revealed several weeks ago that authorities knew the killers’ identities but could not indict them without compromising intelligence sources.

Former Shin Bet officials and observers of Jewish extremists frequently comment on the difficulty Israeli intelligence services have in solving attacks carried out by the small, highly insular circles that are virtually impenetrable.

According to Yisrael Hasson, a former deputy director of the Shin Bet who now heads the Israel Antiquities Authority, officials lack tools that would be allowed if such cases were legally defined as terrorism, such as special permission for more rigid interrogation. Also, security agencies often have the intelligence but have difficulty converting it into evidence sufficient for trial.

In a media interview, Hasson said he hoped this case would lead to an indictment and trial. But he noted that the wording of the police statement was vague, suggesting there was not enough solid evidence or a significant enough breakthrough in the investigation at this point.

Reiterating that investigators must be given adequate tools to deal with Jewish extremists, Hasson said, “We cannot leave our fate in the hands of such lunatic killers that are like any other terror organization.”

Asked whether homes of Jewish attackers should be demolished, as is sometimes done with Palestinians, Hasson expressed reservations about the practice.

“I believe it is effective only in very, very specific cases,” he said. “But if authorities think it is effective, then there should be a single standard and ruler for all murderers and terror.”​

witnesses vs no witnesses. Which is easier to investigate and prosecute in any country?

Do you really think there were no witness? Or that "witness" are sheltering the criminals? That's what the Palestinians are accused of doing but that doesn't stop the course of justice. There seems to be a huge difference here.

The Palestinians are found guilty every time of sheltering terrorists and criminals. They even use ambulances to carry weapons and terrorists around gaza.

So clearly, someone is sheltering the boys who burned alive that family.

That's a plausible theory. Most likely their parents, that is why the police should double their efforts in locating them and crack this case wide open.

 

[Coyote]

In the US it could take years to arrest or bring charges to crimes.

It i not always so simple to determine who or why, or accident vs intended attack such as arson.

You are upset by a rush to judgement when there is an attack of terrorism with car or knife but Israel takes too long to determine who is involved in arson?

Every crime is different and through there were suspects for arson, the problem was which people of the settlement or group was responsible not just someone there was the likely perpetrator.

Weeks and months the Paris massacre will still be under investigation, but you expect the arsonists to be found the next day? Even determining arson can take awhile. You're not talking about homes with safety inspections every two days and insulated latest wiring and smoke detectors required. We lived for years with wire taped to the ceiling and going in and out of windows for light and plugs. Homes built before there was electricity in most towns and people frequently stealing from neighbors and even street lights sometimes. Israel, especially the west bank is not so different than Lebanon was, and in some cases still is. I was wiring and fixing plugs and switches at my grandmothers summer home since I was around eight. Even so power in the village was intermittent and many homes had signs of electrical fires or burnt plugs.

Just because palestinians jump to the conclusion of arson does not mean there was immediate proof or that a culprit was known. It helps the case to have evidence that won't be thrown out in court.

I just notice this Aris - when it's a crime by a Palistinian on a Jew - how long does it take to bring the criminal to justice? When it's a crime by a Jew on a Palestinian...how long?

All stops are pulled out when there the perpetrator is Palestinian. Read the news stories. Is it because legal cases against Palistinians require a lower threshold for evidence?

In this particular case - it IS arson. There is no question. Molotov cocktails were thrown in the window. The authorities were never in doubt.

So you will be able to provide the evidence of this by showing the lengths of time taken to prosecute the terrorists/criminals. Remember that most Palestinians are never caught unless they are seen doing the crime.

You've actually asked me this in another thread and I answered providing information on arrests and prosecution rates. When it comes to murder - Israeli's pull out all stops when the culprit is a Palestinian. The Fogel family, the 3 kidnapped boys....etc.

The Fogel family case left the Israeli public with a thirst for retribution, and the authorities were in tune with the people. Sue us.

You can make the same argument on behalf of the Palestinian thirst for retribution.

It's still not excusable.