Israel does not exist

[Shusha]

Are we now going to dismantle treaty law and claim that treaties between nations are not valid?!

That is true. No treaty that violates the rights of people is valid.

What if Germany and Spain sign a treaty stating they have a mutual border in the middle of France?

Valid treaty?

Now you are just being silly. Do better.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Are we now going to dismantle treaty law and claim that treaties between nations are not valid?!

That is true. No treaty that violates the rights of people is valid.

What if Germany and Spain sign a treaty stating they have a mutual border in the middle of France?

Valid treaty?

Now you are just being silly. Do better.

I don't see Germany or Spain attempting such a thing, but Israel would.

Seriously, both the Egyptian, Israeli and the Jordanian, Israeli armistice agreements call that territory (the Negev) Palestine. Israel signed both agreements.

What happened since 1949 that made that territory Israel?

 

[Sixties Fan]

Are we now going to dismantle treaty law and claim that treaties between nations are not valid?!

That is true. No treaty that violates the rights of people is valid.

What if Germany and Spain sign a treaty stating they have a mutual border in the middle of France?

Valid treaty?

Now you are just being silly. Do better.

I don't see Germany or Spain attempting such a thing, but Israel would.

Seriously, both the Egyptian, Israeli and the Jordanian, Israeli armistice agreements call that territory (the Negev) Palestine. Israel signed both agreements.

What happened since 1949 that made that territory Israel?

Show us where the treaties refer to the Negev as Palestine. Would it be the Mandate for Palestine?

Remember: Israel is Palestine/Palestine is Israel

Israeli rule
In 1948 the Negev came under Israeli rule. In the early years of the state, it absorbed many of the Jewish refugees from Arab countries, with the Israeli government setting up many development towns, such as Arad, Sderot and Netivot. Since then, the Negev has also become home to many of the Israel Defense Forcesmajor bases - a process accelerating in the past two decades.
Negev - Wikipedia
-------
In 1947 and 1948, when the boundaries of the Jewish and Arab states were being debated by diplomats, David Ben-Gurion insisted the Negev be part of the Jewish state. Though it was virtually uninhabited and thought by many to be uncultivable, Ben-Gurion knew this region was needed if the state was to grow. He also had faith the desert could be tamed and turned into a place where Jews could settle and prosper. More than 50 years later, his vision has been realized.
The Negev Desert
-------------

 

[Shusha]

Are we now going to dismantle treaty law and claim that treaties between nations are not valid?!

That is true. No treaty that violates the rights of people is valid.

What if Germany and Spain sign a treaty stating they have a mutual border in the middle of France?

Valid treaty?

Now you are just being silly. Do better.

I don't see Germany or Spain attempting such a thing, but Israel would.

Seriously, both the Egyptian, Israeli and the Jordanian, Israeli armistice agreements call that territory (the Negev) Palestine. Israel signed both agreements.

What happened since 1949 that made that territory Israel?

Seriously. Give it up. What made it not Israel?!

The reality is that the only legal entities which existed at the time are Israel Jordan and Egypt. You keep trying to pretend that there was another legal entity there. But there was not.

Who signed the agreements?! Israel. Jordan. Egypt.

Why did those three entities enter into agreements with each other?! Because they were the only three legal entities which existed! This is not rocket science.

There WAS no invisible ghost fourth entity. And even if there were it would STILL not prohibit Israel from existing.

 

[Slyhunter]

#9

Rights belong solely to people and never to States or governments.

Bullshit. International law quite clearly gives rights to States much more reliably than to "people". Read a treaty. FFS.

The people have the right to establish governments and create states. Governments and states are extensions of the people's sovereignty.

Well, no. Not really. Its a poor and limited understanding of international law. BUT, I'm going to go with it for the purpose of this thread.

Lets assume you are correct. The PEOPLE have the rights to establish governments and create States. So when people DO THAT VERY THING it is a valid government and a valid State. Thus ends the argument on this thread.

See, you are trying to argue at the same time that SOME people have the right to establish governments and create States but that Jewish people do not have that right.

And BAM, you just trumped your own argument.

A government derives its legitimacy from the will of the people. Israel was created by foreigners in direct opposition to the will of the native population.

The Israelites are the natives!

 

[Linkiloo]

Tinmore acts like calling a territory Palestine means it must have belonged to the Arab palestinians back then. He probably fancies that map which shows how Israel "stole" Palestine by existing in that geographical territory (not country Tinmore!)

 

[P F Tinmore]

Are we now going to dismantle treaty law and claim that treaties between nations are not valid?!

That is true. No treaty that violates the rights of people is valid.

What if Germany and Spain sign a treaty stating they have a mutual border in the middle of France?

Valid treaty?

Now you are just being silly. Do better.

I don't see Germany or Spain attempting such a thing, but Israel would.

Seriously, both the Egyptian, Israeli and the Jordanian, Israeli armistice agreements call that territory (the Negev) Palestine. Israel signed both agreements.

What happened since 1949 that made that territory Israel?

Seriously. Give it up. What made it not Israel?!

The reality is that the only legal entities which existed at the time are Israel Jordan and Egypt. You keep trying to pretend that there was another legal entity there. But there was not.

Who signed the agreements?! Israel. Jordan. Egypt.

Why did those three entities enter into agreements with each other?! Because they were the only three legal entities which existed! This is not rocket science.

There WAS no invisible ghost fourth entity. And even if there were it would STILL not prohibit Israel from existing.

I ask a question. You blow smoke.

Remember, the UN cannot create states. It cannot transfer any land or create borders. The armistice agreements merely restricted the movement of military forces. Palestine had no military. There were no forces to limit.

The armistice agreements divided Palestine into three areas of occupation. There is not one word of difference between Jordan's occupation, Egypt's occupation, and Israel's occupation.

Palestine was mentioned several times. A place called Israel was not mentioned. They said that the armistice agreements were to foster peace in Palestine. They did not say peace in Israel or peace in Israel/Palestine.

Palestinian land was mentioned. There was no land mentioned for Israel.

Palestine's international borders were mentioned. There were no borders mentioned for Israel.

So, back to my question that you ducked.

What happened since 1949 that made that territory Israel?

 

[Hollie]

Are we now going to dismantle treaty law and claim that treaties between nations are not valid?!

That is true. No treaty that violates the rights of people is valid.

What if Germany and Spain sign a treaty stating they have a mutual border in the middle of France?

Valid treaty?

Now you are just being silly. Do better.

I don't see Germany or Spain attempting such a thing, but Israel would.

Seriously, both the Egyptian, Israeli and the Jordanian, Israeli armistice agreements call that territory (the Negev) Palestine. Israel signed both agreements.

What happened since 1949 that made that territory Israel?

Seriously. Give it up. What made it not Israel?!

The reality is that the only legal entities which existed at the time are Israel Jordan and Egypt. You keep trying to pretend that there was another legal entity there. But there was not.

Who signed the agreements?! Israel. Jordan. Egypt.

Why did those three entities enter into agreements with each other?! Because they were the only three legal entities which existed! This is not rocket science.

There WAS no invisible ghost fourth entity. And even if there were it would STILL not prohibit Israel from existing.

I ask a question. You blow smoke.

Remember, the UN cannot create states. It cannot transfer any land or create borders. The armistice agreements merely restricted the movement of military forces. Palestine had no military. There were no forces to limit.

The armistice agreements divided Palestine into three areas of occupation. There is not one word of difference between Jordan's occupation, Egypt's occupation, and Israel's occupation.

Palestine was mentioned several times. A place called Israel was not mentioned. They said that the armistice agreements were to foster peace in Palestine. They did not say peace in Israel or peace in Israel/Palestine.

Palestinian land was mentioned. There was no land mentioned for Israel.

Palestine's international borders were mentioned. There were no borders mentioned for Israel.

So, back to my question that you ducked.

What happened since 1949 that made that territory Israel?

In what context was Palestine "mentioned"? You have used this pointless meme before where a mere "mention" of Palestine magically transforms the geographic area into your invented "country of Pally'land"

 

[Humanity]

Are we now going to dismantle treaty law and claim that treaties between nations are not valid?!

That is true. No treaty that violates the rights of people is valid.

What if Germany and Spain sign a treaty stating they have a mutual border in the middle of France?

Valid treaty?

Now you are just being silly. Do better.

I don't see Germany or Spain attempting such a thing, but Israel would.

Seriously, both the Egyptian, Israeli and the Jordanian, Israeli armistice agreements call that territory (the Negev) Palestine. Israel signed both agreements.

What happened since 1949 that made that territory Israel?

Seriously. Give it up. What made it not Israel?!

The reality is that the only legal entities which existed at the time are Israel Jordan and Egypt. You keep trying to pretend that there was another legal entity there. But there was not.

Who signed the agreements?! Israel. Jordan. Egypt.

Why did those three entities enter into agreements with each other?! Because they were the only three legal entities which existed! This is not rocket science.

There WAS no invisible ghost fourth entity. And even if there were it would STILL not prohibit Israel from existing.

I ask a question. You blow smoke.

Remember, the UN cannot create states. It cannot transfer any land or create borders. The armistice agreements merely restricted the movement of military forces. Palestine had no military. There were no forces to limit.

The armistice agreements divided Palestine into three areas of occupation. There is not one word of difference between Jordan's occupation, Egypt's occupation, and Israel's occupation.

Palestine was mentioned several times. A place called Israel was not mentioned. They said that the armistice agreements were to foster peace in Palestine. They did not say peace in Israel or peace in Israel/Palestine.

Palestinian land was mentioned. There was no land mentioned for Israel.

Palestine's international borders were mentioned. There were no borders mentioned for Israel.

So, back to my question that you ducked.

What happened since 1949 that made that territory Israel?

You know... This is where it all gets SERIOUSLY boring....

All this wasted bandwidth to try and argue that Israel does not exist...

Go tell it to the Israelis, to the Palestinians, to everyone else that actually lives in the country called Israel...

I just cannot see why you cannot just accept that Israel really does exist!!! It's futile and childish to argue against that one simple fact... Dragging up and arguing the historical/political facts is ridiculous!

And, if I may say, actually detracts/deflects from the real issues within Israel/Palestine!

From what I have seen on this thread you are the ONLY person arguing that Israel doesn't exist! there aren't even any pro Palestinains, including me, who are supporting your argument! Surely that must tell you something!?!?

 

[P F Tinmore]

That is true. No treaty that violates the rights of people is valid.

What if Germany and Spain sign a treaty stating they have a mutual border in the middle of France?

Valid treaty?

Now you are just being silly. Do better.

I don't see Germany or Spain attempting such a thing, but Israel would.

Seriously, both the Egyptian, Israeli and the Jordanian, Israeli armistice agreements call that territory (the Negev) Palestine. Israel signed both agreements.

What happened since 1949 that made that territory Israel?

Seriously. Give it up. What made it not Israel?!

The reality is that the only legal entities which existed at the time are Israel Jordan and Egypt. You keep trying to pretend that there was another legal entity there. But there was not.

Who signed the agreements?! Israel. Jordan. Egypt.

Why did those three entities enter into agreements with each other?! Because they were the only three legal entities which existed! This is not rocket science.

There WAS no invisible ghost fourth entity. And even if there were it would STILL not prohibit Israel from existing.

I ask a question. You blow smoke.

Remember, the UN cannot create states. It cannot transfer any land or create borders. The armistice agreements merely restricted the movement of military forces. Palestine had no military. There were no forces to limit.

The armistice agreements divided Palestine into three areas of occupation. There is not one word of difference between Jordan's occupation, Egypt's occupation, and Israel's occupation.

Palestine was mentioned several times. A place called Israel was not mentioned. They said that the armistice agreements were to foster peace in Palestine. They did not say peace in Israel or peace in Israel/Palestine.

Palestinian land was mentioned. There was no land mentioned for Israel.

Palestine's international borders were mentioned. There were no borders mentioned for Israel.

So, back to my question that you ducked.

What happened since 1949 that made that territory Israel?

You know... This is where it all gets SERIOUSLY boring....

All this wasted bandwidth to try and argue that Israel does not exist...

Go tell it to the Israelis, to the Palestinians, to everyone else that actually lives in the country called Israel...

I just cannot see why you cannot just accept that Israel really does exist!!! It's futile and childish to argue against that one simple fact... Dragging up and arguing the historical/political facts is ridiculous!

And, if I may say, actually detracts/deflects from the real issues within Israel/Palestine!

From what I have seen on this thread you are the ONLY person arguing that Israel doesn't exist! there aren't even any pro Palestinains, including me, who are supporting your argument! Surely that must tell you something!?!?

From what I have seen on this thread you are the ONLY person arguing that Israel doesn't exist!

It is not uncommon. In Palestine, and among Palestinian supporters, Israel is commonly called 48. (As in 1948 occupied Palestine.) Palestinian maps, and those of some of the surrounding countries, show Palestine without Israel. One of the biggest gripes the "west" has with Hamas is that Hamas recognizes Israel as an occupation. When Hezbollah captured two Israeli soldiers in 2006 they stated that they crossed into Israeli occupied Palestine and captured two soldiers.

I have been studying this history for 15 years and have found nothing to prove this to be incorrect. When I ask people to prove otherwise all I get is a song and dance.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Now you are just being silly. Do better.

I don't see Germany or Spain attempting such a thing, but Israel would.

Seriously, both the Egyptian, Israeli and the Jordanian, Israeli armistice agreements call that territory (the Negev) Palestine. Israel signed both agreements.

What happened since 1949 that made that territory Israel?

Seriously. Give it up. What made it not Israel?!

The reality is that the only legal entities which existed at the time are Israel Jordan and Egypt. You keep trying to pretend that there was another legal entity there. But there was not.

Who signed the agreements?! Israel. Jordan. Egypt.

Why did those three entities enter into agreements with each other?! Because they were the only three legal entities which existed! This is not rocket science.

There WAS no invisible ghost fourth entity. And even if there were it would STILL not prohibit Israel from existing.

I ask a question. You blow smoke.

Remember, the UN cannot create states. It cannot transfer any land or create borders. The armistice agreements merely restricted the movement of military forces. Palestine had no military. There were no forces to limit.

The armistice agreements divided Palestine into three areas of occupation. There is not one word of difference between Jordan's occupation, Egypt's occupation, and Israel's occupation.

Palestine was mentioned several times. A place called Israel was not mentioned. They said that the armistice agreements were to foster peace in Palestine. They did not say peace in Israel or peace in Israel/Palestine.

Palestinian land was mentioned. There was no land mentioned for Israel.

Palestine's international borders were mentioned. There were no borders mentioned for Israel.

So, back to my question that you ducked.

What happened since 1949 that made that territory Israel?

You know... This is where it all gets SERIOUSLY boring....

All this wasted bandwidth to try and argue that Israel does not exist...

Go tell it to the Israelis, to the Palestinians, to everyone else that actually lives in the country called Israel...

I just cannot see why you cannot just accept that Israel really does exist!!! It's futile and childish to argue against that one simple fact... Dragging up and arguing the historical/political facts is ridiculous!

And, if I may say, actually detracts/deflects from the real issues within Israel/Palestine!

From what I have seen on this thread you are the ONLY person arguing that Israel doesn't exist! there aren't even any pro Palestinains, including me, who are supporting your argument! Surely that must tell you something!?!?

From what I have seen on this thread you are the ONLY person arguing that Israel doesn't exist!

It is not uncommon. In Palestine, and among Palestinian supporters, Israel is commonly called 48. (As in 1948 occupied Palestine.) Palestinian maps, and those of some of the surrounding countries, show Palestine without Israel. One of the biggest gripes the "west" has with Hamas is that Hamas recognizes Israel as an occupation. When Hezbollah captured two Israeli soldiers in 2006 they stated that they crossed into Israeli occupied Palestine and captured two soldiers.

I have been studying this history for 15 years and have found nothing to prove this to be incorrect. When I ask people to prove otherwise all I get is a song and dance.

You study what you want to study.
You believe what you wish to believe.
And that is the top and bottom of your wasted 15 years of "studying history" .

There is History, and then there is the "history" you look at which is exactly what you want to read, and nothing else.

Look for a three eyed monster in people's writings and one will find a three eyed monster.
Do they actually exist?
What does it actually mean?
That is the question.

(And you cannot figure out why some Arab countries, or territories have maps of Palestine without Israel, can you?

 

[rylah]

Are we now going to dismantle treaty law and claim that treaties between nations are not valid?!

That is true. No treaty that violates the rights of people is valid.

What if Germany and Spain sign a treaty stating they have a mutual border in the middle of France?

Valid treaty?

Now you are just being silly. Do better.

I don't see Germany or Spain attempting such a thing, but Israel would.

Seriously, both the Egyptian, Israeli and the Jordanian, Israeli armistice agreements call that territory (the Negev) Palestine. Israel signed both agreements.

What happened since 1949 that made that territory Israel?

Seriously. Give it up. What made it not Israel?!

The reality is that the only legal entities which existed at the time are Israel Jordan and Egypt. You keep trying to pretend that there was another legal entity there. But there was not.

Who signed the agreements?! Israel. Jordan. Egypt.

Why did those three entities enter into agreements with each other?! Because they were the only three legal entities which existed! This is not rocket science.

There WAS no invisible ghost fourth entity. And even if there were it would STILL not prohibit Israel from existing.

I ask a question. You blow smoke.

Remember, the UN cannot create states. It cannot transfer any land or create borders. The armistice agreements merely restricted the movement of military forces. Palestine had no military. There were no forces to limit.

The armistice agreements divided Palestine into three areas of occupation. There is not one word of difference between Jordan's occupation, Egypt's occupation, and Israel's occupation.

Palestine was mentioned several times. A place called Israel was not mentioned. They said that the armistice agreements were to foster peace in Palestine. They did not say peace in Israel or peace in Israel/Palestine.

Palestinian land was mentioned. There was no land mentioned for Israel.

Palestine's international borders were mentioned. There were no borders mentioned for Israel.

So, back to my question that you ducked.

What happened since 1949 that made that territory Israel?

Didn't You just answer Your own question?
Even the neighboring states recognized what Shusha is explaining.
Israel govt. was the only state recognized as existent in Palestine. All Palestinian Arabs had to do was fulfill all Your categories of a state, like Israelis did. But they wanted Syria, or even a bigger unified Arab state.

Sounds familiar today?

 

[P F Tinmore]

I don't see Germany or Spain attempting such a thing, but Israel would.

Seriously, both the Egyptian, Israeli and the Jordanian, Israeli armistice agreements call that territory (the Negev) Palestine. Israel signed both agreements.

What happened since 1949 that made that territory Israel?

Seriously. Give it up. What made it not Israel?!

The reality is that the only legal entities which existed at the time are Israel Jordan and Egypt. You keep trying to pretend that there was another legal entity there. But there was not.

Who signed the agreements?! Israel. Jordan. Egypt.

Why did those three entities enter into agreements with each other?! Because they were the only three legal entities which existed! This is not rocket science.

There WAS no invisible ghost fourth entity. And even if there were it would STILL not prohibit Israel from existing.

I ask a question. You blow smoke.

Remember, the UN cannot create states. It cannot transfer any land or create borders. The armistice agreements merely restricted the movement of military forces. Palestine had no military. There were no forces to limit.

The armistice agreements divided Palestine into three areas of occupation. There is not one word of difference between Jordan's occupation, Egypt's occupation, and Israel's occupation.

Palestine was mentioned several times. A place called Israel was not mentioned. They said that the armistice agreements were to foster peace in Palestine. They did not say peace in Israel or peace in Israel/Palestine.

Palestinian land was mentioned. There was no land mentioned for Israel.

Palestine's international borders were mentioned. There were no borders mentioned for Israel.

So, back to my question that you ducked.

What happened since 1949 that made that territory Israel?

You know... This is where it all gets SERIOUSLY boring....

All this wasted bandwidth to try and argue that Israel does not exist...

Go tell it to the Israelis, to the Palestinians, to everyone else that actually lives in the country called Israel...

I just cannot see why you cannot just accept that Israel really does exist!!! It's futile and childish to argue against that one simple fact... Dragging up and arguing the historical/political facts is ridiculous!

And, if I may say, actually detracts/deflects from the real issues within Israel/Palestine!

From what I have seen on this thread you are the ONLY person arguing that Israel doesn't exist! there aren't even any pro Palestinains, including me, who are supporting your argument! Surely that must tell you something!?!?

From what I have seen on this thread you are the ONLY person arguing that Israel doesn't exist!

It is not uncommon. In Palestine, and among Palestinian supporters, Israel is commonly called 48. (As in 1948 occupied Palestine.) Palestinian maps, and those of some of the surrounding countries, show Palestine without Israel. One of the biggest gripes the "west" has with Hamas is that Hamas recognizes Israel as an occupation. When Hezbollah captured two Israeli soldiers in 2006 they stated that they crossed into Israeli occupied Palestine and captured two soldiers.

I have been studying this history for 15 years and have found nothing to prove this to be incorrect. When I ask people to prove otherwise all I get is a song and dance.

You study what you want to study.
You believe what you wish to believe.
And that is the top and bottom of your wasted 15 years of "studying history" .

There is History, and then there is the "history" you look at which is exactly what you want to read, and nothing else.

Look for a three eyed monster in people's writings and one will find a three eyed monster.
Do they actually exist?
What does it actually mean?
That is the question.

(And you cannot figure out why some Arab countries, or territories have maps of Palestine without Israel, can you?

Thank you. You proved my point.

 

[P F Tinmore]

That is true. No treaty that violates the rights of people is valid.

What if Germany and Spain sign a treaty stating they have a mutual border in the middle of France?

Valid treaty?

Now you are just being silly. Do better.

I don't see Germany or Spain attempting such a thing, but Israel would.

Seriously, both the Egyptian, Israeli and the Jordanian, Israeli armistice agreements call that territory (the Negev) Palestine. Israel signed both agreements.

What happened since 1949 that made that territory Israel?

Seriously. Give it up. What made it not Israel?!

The reality is that the only legal entities which existed at the time are Israel Jordan and Egypt. You keep trying to pretend that there was another legal entity there. But there was not.

Who signed the agreements?! Israel. Jordan. Egypt.

Why did those three entities enter into agreements with each other?! Because they were the only three legal entities which existed! This is not rocket science.

There WAS no invisible ghost fourth entity. And even if there were it would STILL not prohibit Israel from existing.

I ask a question. You blow smoke.

Remember, the UN cannot create states. It cannot transfer any land or create borders. The armistice agreements merely restricted the movement of military forces. Palestine had no military. There were no forces to limit.

The armistice agreements divided Palestine into three areas of occupation. There is not one word of difference between Jordan's occupation, Egypt's occupation, and Israel's occupation.

Palestine was mentioned several times. A place called Israel was not mentioned. They said that the armistice agreements were to foster peace in Palestine. They did not say peace in Israel or peace in Israel/Palestine.

Palestinian land was mentioned. There was no land mentioned for Israel.

Palestine's international borders were mentioned. There were no borders mentioned for Israel.

So, back to my question that you ducked.

What happened since 1949 that made that territory Israel?

Didn't You just answer Your own question?
Even the neighboring states recognized what Shusha is explaining.
Israel govt. was the only state recognized as existent in Palestine. All Palestinian Arabs had to do was fulfill all Your categories of a state, like Israelis did. But they wanted Syria, or even a bigger unified Arab state.

Sounds familiar today?

Political recognition was not my point.

Try again.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Seriously. Give it up. What made it not Israel?!

The reality is that the only legal entities which existed at the time are Israel Jordan and Egypt. You keep trying to pretend that there was another legal entity there. But there was not.

Who signed the agreements?! Israel. Jordan. Egypt.

Why did those three entities enter into agreements with each other?! Because they were the only three legal entities which existed! This is not rocket science.

There WAS no invisible ghost fourth entity. And even if there were it would STILL not prohibit Israel from existing.

I ask a question. You blow smoke.

Remember, the UN cannot create states. It cannot transfer any land or create borders. The armistice agreements merely restricted the movement of military forces. Palestine had no military. There were no forces to limit.

The armistice agreements divided Palestine into three areas of occupation. There is not one word of difference between Jordan's occupation, Egypt's occupation, and Israel's occupation.

Palestine was mentioned several times. A place called Israel was not mentioned. They said that the armistice agreements were to foster peace in Palestine. They did not say peace in Israel or peace in Israel/Palestine.

Palestinian land was mentioned. There was no land mentioned for Israel.

Palestine's international borders were mentioned. There were no borders mentioned for Israel.

So, back to my question that you ducked.

What happened since 1949 that made that territory Israel?

You know... This is where it all gets SERIOUSLY boring....

All this wasted bandwidth to try and argue that Israel does not exist...

Go tell it to the Israelis, to the Palestinians, to everyone else that actually lives in the country called Israel...

I just cannot see why you cannot just accept that Israel really does exist!!! It's futile and childish to argue against that one simple fact... Dragging up and arguing the historical/political facts is ridiculous!

And, if I may say, actually detracts/deflects from the real issues within Israel/Palestine!

From what I have seen on this thread you are the ONLY person arguing that Israel doesn't exist! there aren't even any pro Palestinains, including me, who are supporting your argument! Surely that must tell you something!?!?

From what I have seen on this thread you are the ONLY person arguing that Israel doesn't exist!

It is not uncommon. In Palestine, and among Palestinian supporters, Israel is commonly called 48. (As in 1948 occupied Palestine.) Palestinian maps, and those of some of the surrounding countries, show Palestine without Israel. One of the biggest gripes the "west" has with Hamas is that Hamas recognizes Israel as an occupation. When Hezbollah captured two Israeli soldiers in 2006 they stated that they crossed into Israeli occupied Palestine and captured two soldiers.

I have been studying this history for 15 years and have found nothing to prove this to be incorrect. When I ask people to prove otherwise all I get is a song and dance.

You study what you want to study.
You believe what you wish to believe.
And that is the top and bottom of your wasted 15 years of "studying history" .

There is History, and then there is the "history" you look at which is exactly what you want to read, and nothing else.

Look for a three eyed monster in people's writings and one will find a three eyed monster.
Do they actually exist?
What does it actually mean?
That is the question.

(And you cannot figure out why some Arab countries, or territories have maps of Palestine without Israel, can you?

Thank you. You proved my point.

You have no points, and your answer is total BS created by a lifetime of ignorance.

Do not try again.

 

[P F Tinmore]

I ask a question. You blow smoke.

Remember, the UN cannot create states. It cannot transfer any land or create borders. The armistice agreements merely restricted the movement of military forces. Palestine had no military. There were no forces to limit.

The armistice agreements divided Palestine into three areas of occupation. There is not one word of difference between Jordan's occupation, Egypt's occupation, and Israel's occupation.

Palestine was mentioned several times. A place called Israel was not mentioned. They said that the armistice agreements were to foster peace in Palestine. They did not say peace in Israel or peace in Israel/Palestine.

Palestinian land was mentioned. There was no land mentioned for Israel.

Palestine's international borders were mentioned. There were no borders mentioned for Israel.

So, back to my question that you ducked.

What happened since 1949 that made that territory Israel?

You know... This is where it all gets SERIOUSLY boring....

All this wasted bandwidth to try and argue that Israel does not exist...

Go tell it to the Israelis, to the Palestinians, to everyone else that actually lives in the country called Israel...

I just cannot see why you cannot just accept that Israel really does exist!!! It's futile and childish to argue against that one simple fact... Dragging up and arguing the historical/political facts is ridiculous!

And, if I may say, actually detracts/deflects from the real issues within Israel/Palestine!

From what I have seen on this thread you are the ONLY person arguing that Israel doesn't exist! there aren't even any pro Palestinains, including me, who are supporting your argument! Surely that must tell you something!?!?

From what I have seen on this thread you are the ONLY person arguing that Israel doesn't exist!

It is not uncommon. In Palestine, and among Palestinian supporters, Israel is commonly called 48. (As in 1948 occupied Palestine.) Palestinian maps, and those of some of the surrounding countries, show Palestine without Israel. One of the biggest gripes the "west" has with Hamas is that Hamas recognizes Israel as an occupation. When Hezbollah captured two Israeli soldiers in 2006 they stated that they crossed into Israeli occupied Palestine and captured two soldiers.

I have been studying this history for 15 years and have found nothing to prove this to be incorrect. When I ask people to prove otherwise all I get is a song and dance.

You study what you want to study.
You believe what you wish to believe.
And that is the top and bottom of your wasted 15 years of "studying history" .

There is History, and then there is the "history" you look at which is exactly what you want to read, and nothing else.

Look for a three eyed monster in people's writings and one will find a three eyed monster.
Do they actually exist?
What does it actually mean?
That is the question.

(And you cannot figure out why some Arab countries, or territories have maps of Palestine without Israel, can you?

Thank you. You proved my point.

You have no points, and your answer is total BS created by a lifetime of ignorance.

Do not try again.

Nice dodge.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Now you are just being silly. Do better.

I don't see Germany or Spain attempting such a thing, but Israel would.

Seriously, both the Egyptian, Israeli and the Jordanian, Israeli armistice agreements call that territory (the Negev) Palestine. Israel signed both agreements.

What happened since 1949 that made that territory Israel?

Seriously. Give it up. What made it not Israel?!

The reality is that the only legal entities which existed at the time are Israel Jordan and Egypt. You keep trying to pretend that there was another legal entity there. But there was not.

Who signed the agreements?! Israel. Jordan. Egypt.

Why did those three entities enter into agreements with each other?! Because they were the only three legal entities which existed! This is not rocket science.

There WAS no invisible ghost fourth entity. And even if there were it would STILL not prohibit Israel from existing.

I ask a question. You blow smoke.

Remember, the UN cannot create states. It cannot transfer any land or create borders. The armistice agreements merely restricted the movement of military forces. Palestine had no military. There were no forces to limit.

The armistice agreements divided Palestine into three areas of occupation. There is not one word of difference between Jordan's occupation, Egypt's occupation, and Israel's occupation.

Palestine was mentioned several times. A place called Israel was not mentioned. They said that the armistice agreements were to foster peace in Palestine. They did not say peace in Israel or peace in Israel/Palestine.

Palestinian land was mentioned. There was no land mentioned for Israel.

Palestine's international borders were mentioned. There were no borders mentioned for Israel.

So, back to my question that you ducked.

What happened since 1949 that made that territory Israel?

Didn't You just answer Your own question?
Even the neighboring states recognized what Shusha is explaining.
Israel govt. was the only state recognized as existent in Palestine. All Palestinian Arabs had to do was fulfill all Your categories of a state, like Israelis did. But they wanted Syria, or even a bigger unified Arab state.

Sounds familiar today?

Political recognition was not my point.

Try again.

You do not ask questions.
You want people to agree with you no matter what you post, no matter where you got that information, no matter what it means.

So, what was your point?
And keep it simple for us, because I for one cannot understand what it is that you are trying to say beyond trying to force a narrative which has nothing to do with History or the facts on the ground.

So, what was your point by saying that neighboring Arab countries, etc do not have Israel in a map of Palestine, etc, etc etc.. ?

 

[P F Tinmore]

I don't see Germany or Spain attempting such a thing, but Israel would.

Seriously, both the Egyptian, Israeli and the Jordanian, Israeli armistice agreements call that territory (the Negev) Palestine. Israel signed both agreements.

What happened since 1949 that made that territory Israel?

Seriously. Give it up. What made it not Israel?!

The reality is that the only legal entities which existed at the time are Israel Jordan and Egypt. You keep trying to pretend that there was another legal entity there. But there was not.

Who signed the agreements?! Israel. Jordan. Egypt.

Why did those three entities enter into agreements with each other?! Because they were the only three legal entities which existed! This is not rocket science.

There WAS no invisible ghost fourth entity. And even if there were it would STILL not prohibit Israel from existing.

I ask a question. You blow smoke.

Remember, the UN cannot create states. It cannot transfer any land or create borders. The armistice agreements merely restricted the movement of military forces. Palestine had no military. There were no forces to limit.

The armistice agreements divided Palestine into three areas of occupation. There is not one word of difference between Jordan's occupation, Egypt's occupation, and Israel's occupation.

Palestine was mentioned several times. A place called Israel was not mentioned. They said that the armistice agreements were to foster peace in Palestine. They did not say peace in Israel or peace in Israel/Palestine.

Palestinian land was mentioned. There was no land mentioned for Israel.

Palestine's international borders were mentioned. There were no borders mentioned for Israel.

So, back to my question that you ducked.

What happened since 1949 that made that territory Israel?

Didn't You just answer Your own question?
Even the neighboring states recognized what Shusha is explaining.
Israel govt. was the only state recognized as existent in Palestine. All Palestinian Arabs had to do was fulfill all Your categories of a state, like Israelis did. But they wanted Syria, or even a bigger unified Arab state.

Sounds familiar today?

Political recognition was not my point.

Try again.

You do not ask questions.
You want people to agree with you no matter what you post, no matter where you got that information, no matter what it means.

So, what was your point?
And keep it simple for us, because I for one cannot understand what it is that you are trying to say beyond trying to force a narrative which has nothing to do with History or the facts on the ground.

So, what was your point by saying that neighboring Arab countries, etc do not have Israel in a map of Palestine, etc, etc etc.. ?

And keep it simple for us, because I for one cannot understand what it is that you are trying to say...

Indeed, it is called cognitive dissonance.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Seriously. Give it up. What made it not Israel?!

The reality is that the only legal entities which existed at the time are Israel Jordan and Egypt. You keep trying to pretend that there was another legal entity there. But there was not.

Who signed the agreements?! Israel. Jordan. Egypt.

Why did those three entities enter into agreements with each other?! Because they were the only three legal entities which existed! This is not rocket science.

There WAS no invisible ghost fourth entity. And even if there were it would STILL not prohibit Israel from existing.

I ask a question. You blow smoke.

Remember, the UN cannot create states. It cannot transfer any land or create borders. The armistice agreements merely restricted the movement of military forces. Palestine had no military. There were no forces to limit.

The armistice agreements divided Palestine into three areas of occupation. There is not one word of difference between Jordan's occupation, Egypt's occupation, and Israel's occupation.

Palestine was mentioned several times. A place called Israel was not mentioned. They said that the armistice agreements were to foster peace in Palestine. They did not say peace in Israel or peace in Israel/Palestine.

Palestinian land was mentioned. There was no land mentioned for Israel.

Palestine's international borders were mentioned. There were no borders mentioned for Israel.

So, back to my question that you ducked.

What happened since 1949 that made that territory Israel?

Didn't You just answer Your own question?
Even the neighboring states recognized what Shusha is explaining.
Israel govt. was the only state recognized as existent in Palestine. All Palestinian Arabs had to do was fulfill all Your categories of a state, like Israelis did. But they wanted Syria, or even a bigger unified Arab state.

Sounds familiar today?

Political recognition was not my point.

Try again.

You do not ask questions.
You want people to agree with you no matter what you post, no matter where you got that information, no matter what it means.

So, what was your point?
And keep it simple for us, because I for one cannot understand what it is that you are trying to say beyond trying to force a narrative which has nothing to do with History or the facts on the ground.

So, what was your point by saying that neighboring Arab countries, etc do not have Israel in a map of Palestine, etc, etc etc.. ?

And keep it simple for us, because I for one cannot understand what it is that you are trying to say...

Indeed, it is called cognitive dissonance.

No, Tinman, I am not confused at all, actually.
It is very clear that you are a very ignorant Christian who follows the age old hatred for Jews as started by Christianity.

You follow whatever the hatred for Jews not only Christianity, but Islam
as well hold for Jews and all learned out of ignorance.

ISRAEL DOES NOT EXIST to you ONLY because the Arab Muslim haters of Jews say so. That is finally clear.

Please, continue with your hatred of Jews and your denial of Israel's existence. I want you to.
Why? Because when people do not want Israel or Jews to exist, that is when both do better and continue to succeed and survive the endless ignorance people like you are totally incapable of understanding and do away with.

You are a Jew hater Junkie. And there is no cure for it, unless you cure it yourself.

 

[P F Tinmore]

I ask a question. You blow smoke.

Remember, the UN cannot create states. It cannot transfer any land or create borders. The armistice agreements merely restricted the movement of military forces. Palestine had no military. There were no forces to limit.

The armistice agreements divided Palestine into three areas of occupation. There is not one word of difference between Jordan's occupation, Egypt's occupation, and Israel's occupation.

Palestine was mentioned several times. A place called Israel was not mentioned. They said that the armistice agreements were to foster peace in Palestine. They did not say peace in Israel or peace in Israel/Palestine.

Palestinian land was mentioned. There was no land mentioned for Israel.

Palestine's international borders were mentioned. There were no borders mentioned for Israel.

So, back to my question that you ducked.

What happened since 1949 that made that territory Israel?

Didn't You just answer Your own question?
Even the neighboring states recognized what Shusha is explaining.
Israel govt. was the only state recognized as existent in Palestine. All Palestinian Arabs had to do was fulfill all Your categories of a state, like Israelis did. But they wanted Syria, or even a bigger unified Arab state.

Sounds familiar today?

Political recognition was not my point.

Try again.

You do not ask questions.
You want people to agree with you no matter what you post, no matter where you got that information, no matter what it means.

So, what was your point?
And keep it simple for us, because I for one cannot understand what it is that you are trying to say beyond trying to force a narrative which has nothing to do with History or the facts on the ground.

So, what was your point by saying that neighboring Arab countries, etc do not have Israel in a map of Palestine, etc, etc etc.. ?

And keep it simple for us, because I for one cannot understand what it is that you are trying to say...

Indeed, it is called cognitive dissonance.

No, Tinman, I am not confused at all, actually.
It is very clear that you are a very ignorant Christian who follows the age old hatred for Jews as started by Christianity.

You follow whatever the hatred for Jews not only Christianity, but Islam
as well hold for Jews and all learned out of ignorance.

ISRAEL DOES NOT EXIST to you ONLY because the Arab Muslim haters of Jews say so. That is finally clear.

Please, continue with your hatred of Jews and your denial of Israel's existence. I want you to.
Why? Because when people do not want Israel or Jews to exist, that is when both do better and continue to succeed and survive the endless ignorance people like you are totally incapable of understanding and do away with.

You are a Jew hater Junkie. And there is no cure for it, unless you cure it yourself.

Name calling is a sign of losing.