Israel races to head off UN settlement 'blacklist'

RE: Israel races to head off UN settlement 'blacklist'
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

That is correct. Occupying powers do not acquire sovereignty --- merely through the act of occupation. But once the Occupying Power (through their own initiative and not by Mandate) begins to assume all the normal functions of government the real-world reality changes; without regard to what the rest of the world calls it.

IF Israel's signature feature of any portion of the territory is supreme authority within a territory and expresses it intention of never relinquishing that authority .

THEN
no matter what you call it, what resolutions says what, the actual existence meets the standard of becoming (if nothing else) an unincorporated and unorganized territory (Convention on Rights and Duties of States)(recognition not required); at the discretion of the Israeli authorities exercising supreme authority within a territory.

I'm not confusing anything. You don't want to recognize the consequence of the Hostile Arab Palestinians refusing to make peace and refusing to make those apprehensions of those Hostile Arab Palestinian organizations still considered as Jihadist, the Fedayeen, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric fighters.

Israel actually holds the card. But, like I said before, I doubt the Israelis will press that advantage because they don't want a flood of Jihadist, the Fedayeen, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric fighters becoming citizens and endangering the integrity of the state.

Here again you are confusing military control (occupation) with sovereignty. Occupying powers do not acquire sovereignty. Sovereignty continues to be in the hands of the people. Occupations merely violate that right to sovereignty.
(COMMENT)

BUT --- the Occupation can prevent the Arab Palestinian from exercising the three dimensions — the holder of sovereignty, the absoluteness of sovereignty, and the internal and external dimensions of sovereignty. (substantive revision Fri Mar 25, 2016 --- Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

Written By: The Editors of Encyclopædia Britannica

Sovereignty, in political theory, the ultimate overseer, or authority, in the decision-making process of the state and in the maintenance of order. The concept of sovereignty—one of the most controversial ideas in political science and international law—is closely related to the difficult concepts of state and government and of independence and democracy.​

The occupation power can prevent the West Bank Arab Palestinians from establishing their initial condition of sovereignty. The Israelis can not void sovereignty if the Arab Palestinians already had sovereignty. But they did not. The sovereign control by the Jordanians (whether or not you accept it as legitimate) was vacated and abandon by the Jordanians; leaving it in the hands of the Israeli effective control. With the exception of the Gaza Strip (which a majority of Arab Palestinians claim is under occupation), and territory under Oslo Accord Area "A" --- the Arab Palestinian has not been able to establish themselves as the ultimate overseer, or authority, in the decision-making process over Areas "B" and "C" --- and in the maintenance of good order.

Most Respectfully,
R
 
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That is correct. Occupying powers do not acquire sovereignty --- merely through the act of occupation. But once the Occupying Power (through their own initiative and not by Mandate) begins to assume all the normal functions of government the real-world reality changes; without regard to what the rest of the world calls it.
Hitler argued the same thing. The world eventually disagreed and we know how that ended.
 
RE: Israel races to head off UN settlement 'blacklist'
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

That is correct. Occupying powers do not acquire sovereignty --- merely through the act of occupation. But once the Occupying Power (through their own initiative and not by Mandate) begins to assume all the normal functions of government the real-world reality changes; without regard to what the rest of the world calls it.

IF Israel's signature feature of any portion of the territory is supreme authority within a territory and expresses it intention of never relinquishing that authority .

THEN
no matter what you call it, what resolutions says what, the actual existence meets the standard of becoming (if nothing else) an unincorporated and organized territory (Convention on Rights and Duties of States)(recognition not required); at the discretion of the Israeli authorities exercising supreme authority within a territory.

I'm not confusing anything. You don't want to recognize the consequence of the Hostile Arab Palestinians refusing to make peace and refusing to make those apprehensions of those Hostile Arab Palestinian organizations still considered as Jihadist, the Fedayeen, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric fighters.

Israel actually holds the card. But, like I said before, I doubt the Israelis will press that advantage because the don't want a flood of Jihadist, the Fedayeen, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric fighters becoming citizens and endangering the integrity of the state.

Here again you are confusing military control (occupation) with sovereignty. Occupying powers do not acquire sovereignty. Sovereignty continues to be in the hands of the people. Occupations merely violate that right to sovereignty.
(COMMENT)

BUT --- the Occupation can prevent the Arab Palestinian from exercising the three dimensions — the holder of sovereignty, the absoluteness of sovereignty, and the internal and external dimensions of sovereignty. (substantive revision Fri Mar 25, 2016 --- Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

Written By: The Editors of Encyclopædia Britannica

Sovereignty, in political theory, the ultimate overseer, or authority, in the decision-making process of the state and in the maintenance of order. The concept of sovereignty—one of the most controversial ideas in political science and international law—is closely related to the difficult concepts of state and government and of independence and democracy.​

The occupation power can prevent the West Bank Arab Palestinians from establishing their initial condition of sovereignty. The Israelis can not void sovereignty if the Arab Palestinians already had sovereignty. But they did not. The sovereign control by the Jordanians (whether or not you accept it as legitimate) was vacated and abandon by the Jordanians; leaving it in the hands of the Israeli effective control. With the exception of the Gaza Strip (which a majority of Arab Palestinians claim is under occupation), and territory under Oslo Accord Area "A" --- the Arab Palestinian has not been able to establish themselves as the ultimate overseer, or authority, in the decision-making process over Areas "B" and "C" --- and in the maintenance of good order.

Most Respectfully,
R
That is correct. Occupying powers do not acquire sovereignty --- merely through the act of occupation. But once the Occupying Power (through their own initiative and not by Mandate) begins to assume all the normal functions of government the real-world reality changes; without regard to what the rest of the world calls it.
I believe that territory can only be acquired through occupation if that occupation is peaceful.

You have the link.
 
That is correct. Occupying powers do not acquire sovereignty --- merely through the act of occupation. But once the Occupying Power (through their own initiative and not by Mandate) begins to assume all the normal functions of government the real-world reality changes; without regard to what the rest of the world calls it.
Hitler argued the same thing. The world eventually disagreed and we know how that ended.

On the other hand, Hamas has expressed in explicit detail - they were nice enough to write it out - their intentions. The Israelis disagreed and similarly, we see how that has worked out so well for that particular Islamic terrorist franchise.
 
RE: Israel races to head off UN settlement 'blacklist'
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Obviously, some people will say that is true.

That is correct. Occupying powers do not acquire sovereignty --- merely through the act of occupation. But once the Occupying Power (through their own initiative and not by Mandate) begins to assume all the normal functions of government the real-world reality changes; without regard to what the rest of the world calls it.
I believe that territory can only be acquired through occupation if that occupation is peaceful.

You have the link.
(COMMENT)

There is a commonly held belief that a nonbelligerent occupation may result in annexation.

Article 47 of the Fourth Geneva Convention states that “Protected persons who are in occupied territory shall not be deprived,
in any case or in any manner whatsoever, of the benefits of the present Convention by any change introduced, as the result of
the occupation of a territory, into the institutions or government of the said territory, nor by any agreement concluded between
the authorities of the occupied territories and the Occupying Power, nor by any annexation by the latter of the whole or part of
the occupied territory.”​

While Article 47 is the basic framework --- and considered the preferred legal position, there is actually NO common law for unilateral annexation. In fact, since the end of WWII there have been all different kind of territorial disputes resulting in an annexation. Some were challenge (Saddam and Kuwait) and some were not (Russian Federation and Crimea).

The Pro-Palestinians hang their hat on Article 47, but in reality, it does not matter what the Article says. It will ultimately be decided in the "Permanent Status of Negotiation" (Oslo Accords), or the effective control will get to the point that Israel is the government exercising sovereign powers (a decision by default). Gradually, the economic conditions and the commercial development between the Areas "A" and "B" versus that of Area "C" will be a very prominent factor in the decision going forward. The fact that the Israel-Palestinian Conflict has never been concluded

Most Respectfully,
R
 
RE: Israel races to head off UN settlement 'blacklist'
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Yes, that is very correct.

There is a commonly held belief that a nonbelligerent occupation may result in annexation.
Indeed, but Israel's occupation has always been belligerent and has always been contested.
(COMMENT)

This is a case where statutory law and customary law conflict.

The problem here is that if the UN were to suggest enforcement action, that would be called selective enforcement.

In the case of the Crimea, Russia was subject to individual sanctions (three rounds of applied sanctions). Yet, the Crimea is still part of Russia.

In the case of Israeli-Palestinians, Israeli counter-sanctions against West Bank Palestinians would be worse than any sanctions levied against Israel. But Again, the smart move is for Israel just to go slow, and keep to a status quo for the time being. Pretty soon, there will not be any Palestinians that wee displace from 1948. Today, even the youngest of the displace from 1948 would be 69 years old. The Life expectancy at birth for West Bank Palestinians is:

total population: 72.68 years
✪ male:70.95 years
✪ female: 74.51 years (2003 est.)
Ideally, these are persons whose normal place of residence was Palestine during the period 1 June 1946 to 15 May 1948, and who lost both home and means of livelihood as a result of the 1948 conflict.


Most Respectfully,
R
 
Pretty soon, there will not be any Palestinians that wee displace from 1948. Today, even the youngest of the displace from 1948 would be 69 years old.
Irrelevant. Descendants are also considered refugees. However, because refugee problems are normally settled in a matter of years not many decades, the question does not come up.
 
RE: Israel races to head off UN settlement 'blacklist'
※→ P F Tinmore, et al,

Yes, that is very correct.

There is a commonly held belief that a nonbelligerent occupation may result in annexation.
Indeed, but Israel's occupation has always been belligerent and has always been contested.
(COMMENT)

This is a case where statutory law and customary law conflict.

The problem here is that if the UN were to suggest enforcement action, that would be called selective enforcement.

In the case of the Crimea, Russia was subject to individual sanctions (three rounds of applied sanctions). Yet, the Crimea is still part of Russia.

In the case of Israeli-Palestinians, Israeli counter-sanctions against West Bank Palestinians would be worse than any sanctions levied against Israel. But Again, the smart move is for Israel just to go slow, and keep to a status quo for the time being. Pretty soon, there will not be any Palestinians that wee displace from 1948. Today, even the youngest of the displace from 1948 would be 69 years old. The Life expectancy at birth for West Bank Palestinians is:

total population: 72.68 years
✪ male:70.95 years
✪ female: 74.51 years (2003 est.)
Ideally, these are persons whose normal place of residence was Palestine during the period 1 June 1946 to 15 May 1948, and who lost both home and means of livelihood as a result of the 1948 conflict.


Most Respectfully,
R
This is a case where statutory law and customary law conflict.
How so?
 
“[Israeli] officials say they are taking the so-called ‘blacklist’ seriously, fearing its publication could have devastating consequences by driving companies away, deterring others from coming and prompting investors to dump shares of Israeli firms,” AP reported.

Israel and US Hide Names of Companies Supporting Israeli Settlements

HIDING COMPANY NAMES SUPPORTING ILLEGAL ISRAELI SETTLEMENTS

Who didn't see this coming?
 
Does anyone know where this stands at this point?
 
This seems to be the most recent story:
More than 400 Israelis, “including a former attorney general, retired diplomats, ex-members of Knesset, and prominent intellectuals”, have signed a petition urging the United Nations Human Rights Council (UNHRC) to publish a list of companies involved with West Bank settlements.


According to Israeli news site +972 Magazine, the signatories include former attorney general Michael Ben-Yair, former director-general of the Israeli Foreign Ministry Alon Liel, former Israeli ambassador to South Africa Ilan Baruch, and eight recipients of the Israel Prize.
Hundreds of Israelis urge publication of UN settlement database

Encouraging for sure, but I can't find anything from the UN on this.
 
This seems to be the most recent story:
More than 400 Israelis, “including a former attorney general, retired diplomats, ex-members of Knesset, and prominent intellectuals”, have signed a petition urging the United Nations Human Rights Council (UNHRC) to publish a list of companies involved with West Bank settlements.


According to Israeli news site +972 Magazine, the signatories include former attorney general Michael Ben-Yair, former director-general of the Israeli Foreign Ministry Alon Liel, former Israeli ambassador to South Africa Ilan Baruch, and eight recipients of the Israel Prize.
Hundreds of Israelis urge publication of UN settlement database

Encouraging for sure, but I can't find anything from the UN on this.
Versus how many Israelis who think these "more than 400 Israelis" are idiots?
By the way, Egyptian leaders are training their citizens to learn to live with a Jewish Israel.
 
But once the Occupying Power (through their own initiative and not by Mandate) begins to assume all the normal functions of government the real-world reality changes; without regard to what the rest of the world calls it.
Doesn't that occupation have to be peaceful? If not it is an illegal conquest.
 
But once the Occupying Power (through their own initiative and not by Mandate) begins to assume all the normal functions of government the real-world reality changes; without regard to what the rest of the world calls it.
Doesn't that occupation have to be peaceful? If not it is an illegal conquest.
ALL conquest is illegal.

The trouble with Law (especially International Law) in connection with Conquest can be summed-up in the following maxim...

"John Marshall has made his decision, now let him enforce it." - US President Andrew Jackson (apocryphal) in reaction to Worcester v. Georgia, 1832

Translation: if you cannot enforce judicial rulings or positions related to Conquest then it doesn't matter in the slightest.

---------------------------

The Roman conquest of Judea was illegal, in a moral sense, with respect to relationships amongst nations.

The Muslim-Arab conquest of Judea was illegal.

The Crusader conquest of Judea was illegal.

The Turkish conquest of Judea was illegal.

The British conquest of Judea was illegal.

The Jewish conquest of Judea was ilegal.

The Russian conquest of Crimea was illegal.

The American conquest of Mexico was illegal.

The French conquest of Algeria was illegal.

The British conquest of India was illegal.

The Chinese conquest of Tibet was illegal.

And on and on and on and on and on and blah and blah and blah and endless phukking blah...

So what?

In matters of Conquest - especially Conquest that cannot be reversed or dislodged, such as the Jewish Reconquista of Eretz Yisrael...

In the long run, nobody gives a $hit, except the losers.

Pragmatists deal with "What Is" - not what they wanted to happen... not what that which will never happen.
 
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