Israel's Legal Right To Exist

[Hossfly]

What does that mean, "Law free zone?"

Sounds like that means the Palestinians can organize & carry out all the terrorism they want without laws to prevent them.

Must be. I have never seen them in court.

Explain "Law free zone", Tinmore.

C'mon P F Tinmore Don't be bashful

Accusation of international law violations have been flying around for decades.

I don't recall anyone ever going to court.

Oh, I see. If someone commits international law violations then you kill the violators and you won't have to waste money and the courts time. Makes sense to me.

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

EVERYONE, and I mean everyone has a right to defend oneself from harm from the immediate danger of another.

You act like the Palestinians do not have the right to defend themselves.

(COMMENT)

The Arab Palestinian has worked hard are being a danger and menace to themselves and to the world community.

In the case related to the entanglement of the Arab Palestinian and the Israelis, the Arab Palestine hobbles themselves each time they strike-out at the Israelis.

Most Respectfully,
R

The Palestinians aren't the only ones. Israel shoots itself in the foot time and time again. The attack on Lebanon. The attack on the flotilla. Time and time again in Gaza. And, of course there are all of those illegal settlements.

Every time Israel does something stupid, their support in the world moves over to the Palestinian side.

 

[Hollie]

P F Tinmore, et al,

EVERYONE, and I mean everyone has a right to defend oneself from harm from the immediate danger of another.

You act like the Palestinians do not have the right to defend themselves.

(COMMENT)

The Arab Palestinian has worked hard are being a danger and menace to themselves and to the world community.

In the case related to the entanglement of the Arab Palestinian and the Israelis, the Arab Palestine hobbles themselves each time they strike-out at the Israelis.

Most Respectfully,
R

The Palestinians aren't the only ones. Israel shoots itself in the foot time and time again. The attack on Lebanon. The attack on the flotilla. Time and time again in Gaza. And, of course there are all of those illegal settlements.

Every time Israel does something stupid, their support in the world moves over to the Palestinian side.

I'm not so sure about that.

The Arab World’s Waning Sympathy for the Palestinians

[T]he Arab and Islamic world, which for years was at the forefront of pushing the notion that the Palestinian issue is the world’s number-one problem, is starting to get fed up with the Palestinians’ utter self-absorption at a time when so many Arabs and Muslims are suffering far worse. . . .

 

[Hossfly]

P F Tinmore, et al,

EVERYONE, and I mean everyone has a right to defend oneself from harm from the immediate danger of another.

You act like the Palestinians do not have the right to defend themselves.

(COMMENT)

The Arab Palestinian has worked hard are being a danger and menace to themselves and to the world community.

In the case related to the entanglement of the Arab Palestinian and the Israelis, the Arab Palestine hobbles themselves each time they strike-out at the Israelis.

Most Respectfully,
R

The Palestinians aren't the only ones. Israel shoots itself in the foot time and time again. The attack on Lebanon. The attack on the flotilla. Time and time again in Gaza. And, of course there are all of those illegal settlements.

Every time Israel does something stupid, their support in the world moves over to the Palestinian side.

Again Tinmore. What "attacks" on Lebanon and the Turkish flotilla? Update us on those atrocities.

 

[RoccoR]

P F Tinmore, et al,

I know that Israel is NOT perfect. Neither is America for that matter.

The Palestinians aren't the only ones. Israel shoots itself in the foot time and time again. The attack on Lebanon. The attack on the flotilla. Time and time again in Gaza. And, of course there are all of those illegal settlements.

Every time Israel does something stupid, their support in the world moves over to the Palestinian side.

(COMMENT)

But in these two instances, you are barking-up the wrong tree.

• Well, it is a matter of who you think was running the al-Bekka Valley at the time. I think that even the Lebanese Military is afraid of Syrian supported Hezbollah.

• The 2010 Flotilla actually made a big deal out of the fact that they were going to try and run the blockade. That was the pro-Palestinian activist intent, to create and incident.
​

It was an intentional negative media event.

A friend of mine who just retired from the Navy said, it is had been up to him, he would have jammed all communications from the offending fleet and then dropped three MOABs disbursed across the Flotilla. That is a little extreme, but there are several countries in the world that really don't care what the UN thinks.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[montelatici]

Your friend is a murderous piece of shit, like you.

 

[P F Tinmore]

• The 2010 Flotilla actually made a big deal out of the fact that they were going to try and run the blockade. That was the pro-Palestinian activist intent, to create and incident.
It was an intentional negative media event.

Indeed it was brilliant. It put Israel in a lose, lose situation. Should it allow them to break their precious blockade, or get blamed for attacking a civilian aid ship on international waters. Israel gave itself a big black eye on that one.

 

[P F Tinmore]

P F Tinmore, et al,

EVERYONE, and I mean everyone has a right to defend oneself from harm from the immediate danger of another.

You act like the Palestinians do not have the right to defend themselves.

(COMMENT)

The Arab Palestinian has worked hard are being a danger and menace to themselves and to the world community.

In the case related to the entanglement of the Arab Palestinian and the Israelis, the Arab Palestine hobbles themselves each time they strike-out at the Israelis.

Most Respectfully,
R

The Palestinians aren't the only ones. Israel shoots itself in the foot time and time again. The attack on Lebanon. The attack on the flotilla. Time and time again in Gaza. And, of course there are all of those illegal settlements.

Every time Israel does something stupid, their support in the world moves over to the Palestinian side.

I'm not so sure about that.

The Arab World’s Waning Sympathy for the Palestinians

[T]he Arab and Islamic world, which for years was at the forefront of pushing the notion that the Palestinian issue is the world’s number-one problem, is starting to get fed up with the Palestinians’ utter self-absorption at a time when so many Arabs and Muslims are suffering far worse. . . .

The main reason is that I was aiming to explain change. No nation other than Israel has ever experienced such a dramatic reversal in the way it is perceived and treated by the rest of the world.

Why I Changed My Mind about Anti-Semitism and Anti-Israelism

 

[Hollie]

• The 2010 Flotilla actually made a big deal out of the fact that they were going to try and run the blockade. That was the pro-Palestinian activist intent, to create and incident.
It was an intentional negative media event.

Indeed it was brilliant. It put Israel in a lose, lose situation. Should it allow them to break their precious blockade, or get blamed for attacking a civilian aid ship on international waters. Israel gave itself a big black eye on that one.

I think you're a little befuddled about those events and circumstances. The flotilla gee-had never accomplished running the blockade as the flotilla'ists had intended. The silly publicity stunt actually diminished the credibility of the stunt'ers as the fiasco was simply a monumental waste of time.

You have noticed that there was no repeat of that disaster, right?

 

[Hollie]

P F Tinmore, et al,

EVERYONE, and I mean everyone has a right to defend oneself from harm from the immediate danger of another.

You act like the Palestinians do not have the right to defend themselves.

(COMMENT)

The Arab Palestinian has worked hard are being a danger and menace to themselves and to the world community.

In the case related to the entanglement of the Arab Palestinian and the Israelis, the Arab Palestine hobbles themselves each time they strike-out at the Israelis.

Most Respectfully,
R

The Palestinians aren't the only ones. Israel shoots itself in the foot time and time again. The attack on Lebanon. The attack on the flotilla. Time and time again in Gaza. And, of course there are all of those illegal settlements.

Every time Israel does something stupid, their support in the world moves over to the Palestinian side.

I'm not so sure about that.

The Arab World’s Waning Sympathy for the Palestinians

[T]he Arab and Islamic world, which for years was at the forefront of pushing the notion that the Palestinian issue is the world’s number-one problem, is starting to get fed up with the Palestinians’ utter self-absorption at a time when so many Arabs and Muslims are suffering far worse. . . .

The main reason is that I was aiming to explain change. No nation other than Israel has ever experienced such a dramatic reversal in the way it is perceived and treated by the rest of the world.

Why I Changed My Mind about Anti-Semitism and Anti-Israelism

Why yes, you scoured the web and found an opinion piece. Aren't you clever.

Yes, a dramatic reversal. In just a few decades, Israel has gone from delivering Arabs-Moslems humiliating defeats as a response to their wars of aggression and progressed to a technologically innovative, first world economy.

The Arabs-Moslems occupying the disputed territories are still clinging to the UN funded welfare fraud that perpetuates their invented national identity.

 

[P F Tinmore]

• The 2010 Flotilla actually made a big deal out of the fact that they were going to try and run the blockade. That was the pro-Palestinian activist intent, to create and incident.
It was an intentional negative media event.

Indeed it was brilliant. It put Israel in a lose, lose situation. Should it allow them to break their precious blockade, or get blamed for attacking a civilian aid ship on international waters. Israel gave itself a big black eye on that one.

I think you're a little befuddled about those events and circumstances. The flotilla gee-had never accomplished running the blockade as the flotilla'ists had intended. The silly publicity stunt actually diminished the credibility of the stunt'ers as the fiasco was simply a monumental waste of time.

You have noticed that there was no repeat of that disaster, right?

October 5, 2016, 6:55 pm

No violence as Israel intercepts women’s boat to Gaza

 

[Eloy]

Eloy, et al,

Yes, this is a very important point. --- It is a very important point.

Something you could benefit from keeping in mind is that occupation of a territory in time of war was never understood to last for half a century and that such land was to be returned to the inhabitants once the war (in this case the Arab-Israeli War of 1967) was over. The occupation of Palestine is bogus and is in fact the acquisition of land by Israel through war which is illegal.

(QUESTIONS)

•• When is a war over?

** In 1967, the Six Day War had (still in place) the 1949 Armistice Lines left over from a War that was still not over.

•• What war are you talking about? AND! Who were the parties to the war?

(COMMENT)

This is my opportunity to learn something from you. My understanding was:

•• Whether you talk about the 1948-49 War of Independence, the 1967 Six-Day War, or the 1973 Yom Kipper War, there were several "parties to the conflict" (somebody was at war with somebody). There was no party to any of the conflicts or an Armistice, or a treaty, pertaining to any party know as the "Palestinians" or any variation of that name.
•• Relative to the War most related to the Gaza Strip, the conflict and subsequent treaty was between the Israelis and the Egyptians. The 1979 Peace Treaty established "[t]he permanent boundary between Egypt and Israel is the recognized international boundary." This Treaty terminated and replaced the Armistice Agreement in accordance with Article XII(2) of the Armistice.
•• Relative to the War most related to the West Bank, the conflict and subsequent treaty was between the Israelis and the Jordanians. The 1994 Peace Treaty established "[t]he international boundary between Jordan and Israel is delimited with reference to the boundary definition under the Mandate as is shown in Annex I (a), on the mapping materials attached thereto and coordinates specified therein." This Treaty terminated and replaced the Armistice Agreement in accordance with Article XII(2) of the Armistice.
​

All differences and disputes relative to the conflict between Israel and the Arab States of Egypt and Jordan have been resolved. Permanent international borders have been established.

•• Israel was not at War with the Arab Palestinians.
•• Israel did not have an Armistice with the Arab Palestinians.
•• Israel neither seized, conquered, occupied or acquired anything from the Arab Palestinian.

•∆• Sovereign territory from the Jordanians - YES!
•∆• A Military Governorship from Egypt - YES!
•§• Nothing from any other sovereign or independent power pertaining to the West Bank or Gaza Strip.
​

So when you say "such land was to be returned to the inhabitants once the war (in this case the Arab-Israeli War of 1967) was over;" what meaning does that have?

Nothing was taking from the inhabitance. If you check, you will find that on 31 July 1988, under the Jordanian Disengagement from the West Bank, King Hussein announced the severance of all administrative and legal ties with the occupied West Bank. Accordingly, electoral districts were redrawn to represent East Bank constituencies only. This effectively abandon the West Bank to the Israelis; absent any other self-governing institution available.

Immediately following the 1948-49 Israeli War of Independence, Egypt took control and placed a military administration over the newly formed Gaza Strip. Israel, after the 1967 Six-Day War, relieved the Egyptians of the Gaza Strip. Under a series of agreements known as the Oslo accords signed between 1994 and 1999, Israel transferred to the (new) Palestinian Authority (PA) much of the security and civilian responsibility for the Gaza Strip as well as the West Bank (Areas and Authority defined by the Agreements). Negotiations to determine the permanent status of the West Bank and Gaza Strip stalled in 2001, after which the area erupted into what became known as the Intifada. Neither of the two Sides activated the dispute resolution process. The two sides did not resume (in good faith) the Permanent Status negotiations. One side demands preconditions before talks resume and the other requires that no preconditions before talks resume.

Most Respectfully,
R

I am repeating what the United Nations Security Council agreed about the recent (1967) war in Resolution 242 where Israel is required to remove all its military to the 1967 borders. I thought you knew.

Israel was told to give up "territories" captured in the war, but not "all the territories". The language was deliberately ambiguous. In fact by giving up the Sinai, Israel has already complied.

You have been taken-in by Zionist propaganda so that you do not even believe what your own eyes tell you. The Israelis were told to withdraw from "territories occupied in the recent conflict". This, of course, includes the West Bank, including East Jerusalem and Gaza.

 

[Shusha]

... Israel even stole sewing machines, cloth, and finished clothing from a girl's orphanage. ....

This just reeks of "there is more to this story".

And it took no more than a few minutes to uncover the truth. As usual, this is Team Palestine's appeal to emotions, playing the victim and claiming that Israel is hurting poor innocent female children in order to maximize the emotional effect and demonize Israel while neglecting to mention the CAUSE of the problem or the REASON why Israel is acting. Team Palestine tries to trick us into thinking that Israel is acting in a vacuum out of sheer malice and evil rather correctly placing responsibility on Palestinian provocation.

Turns out that the orphanage was shut down because the educators at the school had a program of incitement and racism and was teaching the girls to become martyrs. With songs like this:

"Fasten your bomb belt oh would-be martyr and fill the square with blood ..."

And this is in Hebron, mind you.

 

[Shusha]

You act like the Palestinians do not have the right to defend themselves.

Palestinians absolutely have the right to defend themselves. As does every individual and every State.

The problem is that the Palestinians have nothing to defend themselves FROM. Palestinians are not being attacked.

The fact that they want political control over more land than they have does not, in any way, constitute an attack.

 

[Eloy]

...
242 has been largely satisfied.

No; it hasn't.

Remember, 242 has nothing at all to do with the Arab Palestinians.

Of course Resolution 242 is about the Palestinians; they are the people living in the West Bank, including East Jerusalem and Gaza for Pete's sake.

(This can not be stressed enough).

You would like that; making the Palestinians disappear. What a nerve you have.

It only concerns itself with the States in the area. Most of the States in the area (Israel, Jordan and Egypt) have peace treaties and have thus formally terminated all claims or states of belligerency.

No land can be acquired through war and this is what the Israelis continue to do for the past half century.

The other States (Lebanon and Syria) still have on-going border disputes with Israel.

There is no war being carried on between Israel and Syria although the Israelis continue to illegally occupy the Golan Heights and likewise Israel is not at war with Lebanon although from time to time the Israelis have been involved in belligerence with its neighbor to the north.

Israel has satisfied the requirement to withdraw armed forces from territories occupied in the conflict, in terms of the West Bank, as evidenced by Jordan's acceptance of a peace treaty with her. The Golan Heights is the only territory still under question.

No it hasn't. Israel continues to occupy the West Bank, including East Jerusalem and Gaza. A peace treaty between Jordan and Israel is not evidence that Israel ceased to occupy the West Bank, including East Jerusalem. The West Bank, including East Jerusalem was ceded by Jordan to the Palestinians, not the Israelis, in 1988, as you well know. It's past time for you to quit the sophistry.

Israel's dispute with "Palestine" has nothing at all to do with 242 and is addressed separately in the Oslo Accords, which demand a negotiated treaty between those two parties.

It has everything to do with the right of the Palestinians to self-determination who have gained nothing by chatting to the Israelis for half a century.

 

[Shusha]

It's past time for you to quit the sophistry.

Am I the only one who reads this as, "Stop using actual facts, I can't keep up."

 

[Hossfly]

It's past time for you to quit the sophistry.

Am I the only one who reads this as, "Stop using actual facts, I can't keep up."

 

[P F Tinmore]

You act like the Palestinians do not have the right to defend themselves.

Palestinians absolutely have the right to defend themselves. As does every individual and every State.

The problem is that the Palestinians have nothing to defend themselves FROM. Palestinians are not being attacked.

The fact that they want political control over more land than they have does not, in any way, constitute an attack.

You need to read up on Israel's settler colonialism.

 

[Eloy]

It's past time for you to quit the sophistry.

Am I the only one who reads this as, "Stop using actual facts, I can't keep up."

Regrettably, you and about three others do nothing but distort the truth in the hope that you will mislead others.

 

[Shusha]

It's past time for you to quit the sophistry.

Am I the only one who reads this as, "Stop using actual facts, I can't keep up."

Regrettably, you and about three others do nothing but distort the truth in the hope that you will mislead others.

Feel free to point out to me where 242 mentions the Palestinians or the State of Palestine.