Israel's Occupation Is Morally Indefensible

[pbel]

Zionism is Fascism according to Albert Einstein. I want a safe-haven for the Jews but how do you reconcile the immoral annexation of the indigenous people's homeland?


Alon Ben-Meir Become a fan

Senior Fellow, Center for Global Affairs, NYU

Error | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
I have long maintained that Israel's occupation of the West Bank defies the moral principle behind the creation of the state. Contrary to Prime Minister Netanyahu's assertion, the occupation erodes rather than buttresses Israel's national security and cannot be justified on either security or moral grounds. Unless Israel embraces a new moral path, no one can prevent it from unravelling from within only to become a pariah state that has lost its soul, wantonly abandoning the cherished dreams of its founding fathers.

There are four ethical theories--Kantian, utilitarian, virtue-based, and religious--that demonstrate the lack of moral foundation in the continuing occupation, which imposes upon Israelis the responsibility to bring it to a decisive end.

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

They should fully annex all territories captured in 1967.

End of moral dilemma.

 

[the_human_being]

Zionism is Fascism according to Albert Einstein. I want a safe-haven for the Jews but how do you reconcile the immoral annexation of the indigenous people's homeland?


Alon Ben-Meir Become a fan

Senior Fellow, Center for Global Affairs, NYU

Error | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
I have long maintained that Israel's occupation of the West Bank defies the moral principle behind the creation of the state. Contrary to Prime Minister Netanyahu's assertion, the occupation erodes rather than buttresses Israel's national security and cannot be justified on either security or moral grounds. Unless Israel embraces a new moral path, no one can prevent it from unravelling from within only to become a pariah state that has lost its soul, wantonly abandoning the cherished dreams of its founding fathers.

There are four ethical theories--Kantian, utilitarian, virtue-based, and religious--that demonstrate the lack of moral foundation in the continuing occupation, which imposes upon Israelis the responsibility to bring it to a decisive end.

Your problem is that that area belonged to Israel long before any Arabs ever made it their home.

 

[montelatici]

Zionism is Fascism according to Albert Einstein. I want a safe-haven for the Jews but how do you reconcile the immoral annexation of the indigenous people's homeland?


Alon Ben-Meir Become a fan

Senior Fellow, Center for Global Affairs, NYU

Error | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
I have long maintained that Israel's occupation of the West Bank defies the moral principle behind the creation of the state. Contrary to Prime Minister Netanyahu's assertion, the occupation erodes rather than buttresses Israel's national security and cannot be justified on either security or moral grounds. Unless Israel embraces a new moral path, no one can prevent it from unravelling from within only to become a pariah state that has lost its soul, wantonly abandoning the cherished dreams of its founding fathers.

There are four ethical theories--Kantian, utilitarian, virtue-based, and religious--that demonstrate the lack of moral foundation in the continuing occupation, which imposes upon Israelis the responsibility to bring it to a decisive end.

Your problem is that that area belonged to Israel long before any Arabs ever made it their home.

When did the area belong to Israel?

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Zionism is Fascism according to Albert Einstein. I want a safe-haven for the Jews but how do you reconcile the immoral annexation of the indigenous people's homeland?


Alon Ben-Meir Become a fan

Senior Fellow, Center for Global Affairs, NYU

Error | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
I have long maintained that Israel's occupation of the West Bank defies the moral principle behind the creation of the state. Contrary to Prime Minister Netanyahu's assertion, the occupation erodes rather than buttresses Israel's national security and cannot be justified on either security or moral grounds. Unless Israel embraces a new moral path, no one can prevent it from unravelling from within only to become a pariah state that has lost its soul, wantonly abandoning the cherished dreams of its founding fathers.

There are four ethical theories--Kantian, utilitarian, virtue-based, and religious--that demonstrate the lack of moral foundation in the continuing occupation, which imposes upon Israelis the responsibility to bring it to a decisive end.

I want a safe-haven for the Jews but how do you reconcile the immoral annexation of the indigenous people's homeland?

Arabs are indigenous to Israel? LOL!

 

[the_human_being]

Zionism is Fascism according to Albert Einstein. I want a safe-haven for the Jews but how do you reconcile the immoral annexation of the indigenous people's homeland?


Alon Ben-Meir Become a fan

Senior Fellow, Center for Global Affairs, NYU

Error | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
I have long maintained that Israel's occupation of the West Bank defies the moral principle behind the creation of the state. Contrary to Prime Minister Netanyahu's assertion, the occupation erodes rather than buttresses Israel's national security and cannot be justified on either security or moral grounds. Unless Israel embraces a new moral path, no one can prevent it from unravelling from within only to become a pariah state that has lost its soul, wantonly abandoning the cherished dreams of its founding fathers.

There are four ethical theories--Kantian, utilitarian, virtue-based, and religious--that demonstrate the lack of moral foundation in the continuing occupation, which imposes upon Israelis the responsibility to bring it to a decisive end.

Your problem is that that area belonged to Israel long before any Arabs ever made it their home.

When did the area belong to Israel?

They found the ring of King Hezekiah which was used as his official seal just a while back. I posted it on one or the other of the forums.

 

[montelatici]

Zionism is Fascism according to Albert Einstein. I want a safe-haven for the Jews but how do you reconcile the immoral annexation of the indigenous people's homeland?


Alon Ben-Meir Become a fan

Senior Fellow, Center for Global Affairs, NYU

Error | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
I have long maintained that Israel's occupation of the West Bank defies the moral principle behind the creation of the state. Contrary to Prime Minister Netanyahu's assertion, the occupation erodes rather than buttresses Israel's national security and cannot be justified on either security or moral grounds. Unless Israel embraces a new moral path, no one can prevent it from unravelling from within only to become a pariah state that has lost its soul, wantonly abandoning the cherished dreams of its founding fathers.

There are four ethical theories--Kantian, utilitarian, virtue-based, and religious--that demonstrate the lack of moral foundation in the continuing occupation, which imposes upon Israelis the responsibility to bring it to a decisive end.

I want a safe-haven for the Jews but how do you reconcile the immoral annexation of the indigenous people's homeland?

Arabs are indigenous to Israel? LOL!

Arab Christian and Muslims that live in Palestine are the native people of the area, by definition. They are the same people whose ancestors lived in the area since the bronze age, for the most part. You do realize that Arab is a cultural and linguistic distinction. The Jews that invaded Palestine were from Europe.

 

[USAF 2023]

Zionism is Fascism according to Albert Einstein. I want a safe-haven for the Jews but how do you reconcile the immoral annexation of the indigenous people's homeland?


Alon Ben-Meir Become a fan

Senior Fellow, Center for Global Affairs, NYU

Error | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
I have long maintained that Israel's occupation of the West Bank defies the moral principle behind the creation of the state. Contrary to Prime Minister Netanyahu's assertion, the occupation erodes rather than buttresses Israel's national security and cannot be justified on either security or moral grounds. Unless Israel embraces a new moral path, no one can prevent it from unravelling from within only to become a pariah state that has lost its soul, wantonly abandoning the cherished dreams of its founding fathers.

There are four ethical theories--Kantian, utilitarian, virtue-based, and religious--that demonstrate the lack of moral foundation in the continuing occupation, which imposes upon Israelis the responsibility to bring it to a decisive end.

Here we go again; The argument that Israel doesn't have the Right to exist lol

 

[Billy_Kinetta]

Zionism is Fascism according to Albert Einstein. I want a safe-haven for the Jews but how do you reconcile the immoral annexation of the indigenous people's homeland?


Alon Ben-Meir Become a fan

Senior Fellow, Center for Global Affairs, NYU

Error | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
I have long maintained that Israel's occupation of the West Bank defies the moral principle behind the creation of the state. Contrary to Prime Minister Netanyahu's assertion, the occupation erodes rather than buttresses Israel's national security and cannot be justified on either security or moral grounds. Unless Israel embraces a new moral path, no one can prevent it from unravelling from within only to become a pariah state that has lost its soul, wantonly abandoning the cherished dreams of its founding fathers.

There are four ethical theories--Kantian, utilitarian, virtue-based, and religious--that demonstrate the lack of moral foundation in the continuing occupation, which imposes upon Israelis the responsibility to bring it to a decisive end.

I want a safe-haven for the Jews but how do you reconcile the immoral annexation of the indigenous people's homeland?

Arabs are indigenous to Israel? LOL!

Arab Christian and Muslims that live in Palestine are the native people of the area, by definition. They are the same people whose ancestors lived in the area since the bronze age, for the most part. You do realize that Arab is a cultural and linguistic distinction. The Jews that invaded Palestine were from Europe.

Only because they were driven from Israel in the first place.

 

[montelatici]

Zionism is Fascism according to Albert Einstein. I want a safe-haven for the Jews but how do you reconcile the immoral annexation of the indigenous people's homeland?


Alon Ben-Meir Become a fan

Senior Fellow, Center for Global Affairs, NYU

Error | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
I have long maintained that Israel's occupation of the West Bank defies the moral principle behind the creation of the state. Contrary to Prime Minister Netanyahu's assertion, the occupation erodes rather than buttresses Israel's national security and cannot be justified on either security or moral grounds. Unless Israel embraces a new moral path, no one can prevent it from unravelling from within only to become a pariah state that has lost its soul, wantonly abandoning the cherished dreams of its founding fathers.

There are four ethical theories--Kantian, utilitarian, virtue-based, and religious--that demonstrate the lack of moral foundation in the continuing occupation, which imposes upon Israelis the responsibility to bring it to a decisive end.

I want a safe-haven for the Jews but how do you reconcile the immoral annexation of the indigenous people's homeland?

Arabs are indigenous to Israel? LOL!

Arab Christian and Muslims that live in Palestine are the native people of the area, by definition. They are the same people whose ancestors lived in the area since the bronze age, for the most part. You do realize that Arab is a cultural and linguistic distinction. The Jews that invaded Palestine were from Europe.

Only because they were driven from Israel in the first place.

Who was driven from Israel?

 

[Phoenall]

Zionism is Fascism according to Albert Einstein. I want a safe-haven for the Jews but how do you reconcile the immoral annexation of the indigenous people's homeland?


Alon Ben-Meir Become a fan

Senior Fellow, Center for Global Affairs, NYU

Error | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
I have long maintained that Israel's occupation of the West Bank defies the moral principle behind the creation of the state. Contrary to Prime Minister Netanyahu's assertion, the occupation erodes rather than buttresses Israel's national security and cannot be justified on either security or moral grounds. Unless Israel embraces a new moral path, no one can prevent it from unravelling from within only to become a pariah state that has lost its soul, wantonly abandoning the cherished dreams of its founding fathers.

There are four ethical theories--Kantian, utilitarian, virtue-based, and religious--that demonstrate the lack of moral foundation in the continuing occupation, which imposes upon Israelis the responsibility to bring it to a decisive end.

And how about a different source to your claims regarding Einstein then, having only one source of such a historic statement shows that it is at best questionable.

 

[Phoenall]

Zionism is Fascism according to Albert Einstein. I want a safe-haven for the Jews but how do you reconcile the immoral annexation of the indigenous people's homeland?


Alon Ben-Meir Become a fan

Senior Fellow, Center for Global Affairs, NYU

Error | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
I have long maintained that Israel's occupation of the West Bank defies the moral principle behind the creation of the state. Contrary to Prime Minister Netanyahu's assertion, the occupation erodes rather than buttresses Israel's national security and cannot be justified on either security or moral grounds. Unless Israel embraces a new moral path, no one can prevent it from unravelling from within only to become a pariah state that has lost its soul, wantonly abandoning the cherished dreams of its founding fathers.

There are four ethical theories--Kantian, utilitarian, virtue-based, and religious--that demonstrate the lack of moral foundation in the continuing occupation, which imposes upon Israelis the responsibility to bring it to a decisive end.

Your problem is that that area belonged to Israel long before any Arabs ever made it their home.

When did the area belong to Israel?

When the sovereign land owners signed it over to them in 1923 of course. The same time they signed trans Jordan over to the arab muslims.

 

[Phoenall]

Zionism is Fascism according to Albert Einstein. I want a safe-haven for the Jews but how do you reconcile the immoral annexation of the indigenous people's homeland?


Alon Ben-Meir Become a fan

Senior Fellow, Center for Global Affairs, NYU

Error | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
I have long maintained that Israel's occupation of the West Bank defies the moral principle behind the creation of the state. Contrary to Prime Minister Netanyahu's assertion, the occupation erodes rather than buttresses Israel's national security and cannot be justified on either security or moral grounds. Unless Israel embraces a new moral path, no one can prevent it from unravelling from within only to become a pariah state that has lost its soul, wantonly abandoning the cherished dreams of its founding fathers.

There are four ethical theories--Kantian, utilitarian, virtue-based, and religious--that demonstrate the lack of moral foundation in the continuing occupation, which imposes upon Israelis the responsibility to bring it to a decisive end.

I want a safe-haven for the Jews but how do you reconcile the immoral annexation of the indigenous people's homeland?

Arabs are indigenous to Israel? LOL!

That's like saying that Italian Catholics are indigenous to Mexico

 

[Phoenall]

Zionism is Fascism according to Albert Einstein. I want a safe-haven for the Jews but how do you reconcile the immoral annexation of the indigenous people's homeland?


Alon Ben-Meir Become a fan

Senior Fellow, Center for Global Affairs, NYU

Error | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
I have long maintained that Israel's occupation of the West Bank defies the moral principle behind the creation of the state. Contrary to Prime Minister Netanyahu's assertion, the occupation erodes rather than buttresses Israel's national security and cannot be justified on either security or moral grounds. Unless Israel embraces a new moral path, no one can prevent it from unravelling from within only to become a pariah state that has lost its soul, wantonly abandoning the cherished dreams of its founding fathers.

There are four ethical theories--Kantian, utilitarian, virtue-based, and religious--that demonstrate the lack of moral foundation in the continuing occupation, which imposes upon Israelis the responsibility to bring it to a decisive end.

I want a safe-haven for the Jews but how do you reconcile the immoral annexation of the indigenous people's homeland?

Arabs are indigenous to Israel? LOL!

Arab Christian and Muslims that live in Palestine are the native people of the area, by definition. They are the same people whose ancestors lived in the area since the bronze age, for the most part. You do realize that Arab is a cultural and linguistic distinction. The Jews that invaded Palestine were from Europe.

Only because they were driven from Israel in the first place.

Who was driven from Israel?

The Jews of course, many taken as slaves by the holy Roman Catholic Empire back to Rome and then sold at auction. Now those that want to are returning to their ancestral homelands

 

[Phoenall]

Zionism is Fascism according to Albert Einstein. I want a safe-haven for the Jews but how do you reconcile the immoral annexation of the indigenous people's homeland?


Alon Ben-Meir Become a fan

Senior Fellow, Center for Global Affairs, NYU

Error | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
I have long maintained that Israel's occupation of the West Bank defies the moral principle behind the creation of the state. Contrary to Prime Minister Netanyahu's assertion, the occupation erodes rather than buttresses Israel's national security and cannot be justified on either security or moral grounds. Unless Israel embraces a new moral path, no one can prevent it from unravelling from within only to become a pariah state that has lost its soul, wantonly abandoning the cherished dreams of its founding fathers.

There are four ethical theories--Kantian, utilitarian, virtue-based, and religious--that demonstrate the lack of moral foundation in the continuing occupation, which imposes upon Israelis the responsibility to bring it to a decisive end.

I want a safe-haven for the Jews but how do you reconcile the immoral annexation of the indigenous people's homeland?

Arabs are indigenous to Israel? LOL!

Arab Christian and Muslims that live in Palestine are the native people of the area, by definition. They are the same people whose ancestors lived in the area since the bronze age, for the most part. You do realize that Arab is a cultural and linguistic distinction. The Jews that invaded Palestine were from Europe.

Only because they were driven from Israel in the first place.

Who was driven from Israel?

The Jews of course, many taken as slaves by the holy Roman Catholic Empire back to Rome and then sold at auction. Now those that want to are returning to their ancestral homelands

 

[the_human_being]

Early History of Palestine

 

[pbel]

Zionism is Fascism according to Albert Einstein. I want a safe-haven for the Jews but how do you reconcile the immoral annexation of the indigenous people's homeland?


Alon Ben-Meir Become a fan

Senior Fellow, Center for Global Affairs, NYU

Error | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
I have long maintained that Israel's occupation of the West Bank defies the moral principle behind the creation of the state. Contrary to Prime Minister Netanyahu's assertion, the occupation erodes rather than buttresses Israel's national security and cannot be justified on either security or moral grounds. Unless Israel embraces a new moral path, no one can prevent it from unravelling from within only to become a pariah state that has lost its soul, wantonly abandoning the cherished dreams of its founding fathers.

There are four ethical theories--Kantian, utilitarian, virtue-based, and religious--that demonstrate the lack of moral foundation in the continuing occupation, which imposes upon Israelis the responsibility to bring it to a decisive end.

Your problem is that that area belonged to Israel long before any Arabs ever made it their home.

That was over 2,000 years ago Ape Man.

 

[RoccoR]

Billy_Kinetta, et al,

Any nation that underwrites, or takes responsibility for the West Bank or Gaza Strip is committing suicide; by trying an economic albatross, a politically deficit and a morally bankrupted nation around its neck. It will become blackhole for tax supported revenue many more times as damaging as the donor nations experience now. And, there is simply no guarantee that the dilemma will ever be resolved.

They should fully annex all territories captured in 1967.
End of moral dilemma.

(COMMENT)

While there are many observers that do not believe the Arab-Israeli Conflict is not a religious conflict it certainly is fueled by elements of religious fervor. As has been pointed out many times, the Arab Palestinians, there is not a single core of reasons for the conflict, but like a Chinese Menu, several columns from which to choose-mix, and match.

“The great enemy of truth is very often not the lie—deliberate, contrived and dishonest
— but the myth —
persistent, persuasive and repeated.”​

...........................................................................................................................—President John F. Kennedy
.......................................................................................................................Commencement Address at Yale University
......................................................................................................................................................................June 11, 1962

Many pro-Palestinians, and even some pro-Israelis think that, think that there is some key point to be made in the ties and relationships their people have to the land. They concern themselves with the numbers on how many people were on the land at what time in the timeline. They busy the discussion with the ownership of the land and attempt to confuse it with territorial sovereignty. The talk about "rights" and the "inalienable rights" --- and the promise of this and that Covenant, Treaty, Council Order and Mandate and Resolution that alleges to name the Palestinian people to some direct obligation or promise. One of the more damaging notions is that "Zionism" is a form of "Racism." And the constant association of the Arab-Israeli Conflict to "Apartheid." When in fact, the State of Israel is more racially diverse than any part of the Palestinian Territory. Zionism is, in fact, more alike to "Jewish Nationalism;" just as there were a number of Arab Nationalist movements throughout the Arab World. The famous Faisal-Weismann Agreement acknowledges that both the Arab and Jewish people have national aspirations.

But the two single worst myths to be disseminated is the thought that (1) the conflict is based on a religious notion; and (2) that Israel wants to annex the entire territory. I don't think there is a single Israeli citizen that would want to pay "forever" the cost of maintaining the Arab-Palestinian on social programs and compensation. In fact, I don't think that any of the surrounding Arab League nations appreciates the cost associated with the maintenance of the Palestinian. And even if we started today, it would be decades and decades before the Arab-Palestinian would be able to stand-alone, as envisioned in the Covenant. For more than three generations, the Palestinians have taught their children how to live of the UNRWA and the associated programs sponsored by or indirectly paid for by the donor contributors.

NO! The is no moral dilemma. Israel and the Arab Palestinians are much better-off if the Israelis don't Annex anything. In the 17 years that Jordan had the West Bank, the Jordanians could not make the economy work. Jordan was more than happy to give-up the territory then to suffer more unemployable Palestinians.

Just my opinion.
Most Respectfully,
R

 

[pbel]

Billy_Kinetta, et al,

Any nation that underwrites, or takes responsibility for the West Bank or Gaza Strip is committing suicide; by trying an economic albatross, a politically deficit and a morally bankrupted nation around its neck. It will become blackhole for tax supported revenue many more times as damaging as the donor nations experience now. And, there is simply no guarantee that the dilemma will ever be resolved.

They should fully annex all territories captured in 1967.
End of moral dilemma.

(COMMENT)

While there are many observers that do not believe the Arab-Israeli Conflict is not a religious conflict it certainly is fueled by elements of religious fervor. As has been pointed out many times, the Arab Palestinians, there is not a single core of reasons for the conflict, but like a Chinese Menu, several columns from which to choose-mix, and match.

“The great enemy of truth is very often not the lie—deliberate, contrived and dishonest
— but the myth —
persistent, persuasive and repeated.”​

...........................................................................................................................—President John F. Kennedy
.......................................................................................................................Commencement Address at Yale University
......................................................................................................................................................................June 11, 1962

Many pro-Palestinians, and even some pro-Israelis think that, think that there is some key point to be made in the ties and relationships their people have to the land. They concern themselves with the numbers on how many people were on the land at what time in the timeline. They busy the discussion with the ownership of the land and attempt to confuse it with territorial sovereignty. The talk about "rights" and the "inalienable rights" --- and the promise of this and that Covenant, Treaty, Council Order and Mandate and Resolution that alleges to name the Palestinian people to some direct obligation or promise. One of the more damaging notions is that "Zionism" is a form of "Racism." And the constant association of the Arab-Israeli Conflict to "Apartheid." When in fact, the State of Israel is more racially diverse than any part of the Palestinian Territory. Zionism is, in fact, more alike to "Jewish Nationalism;" just as there were a number of Arab Nationalist movements throughout the Arab World. The famous Faisal-Weismann Agreement acknowledges that both the Arab and Jewish people have national aspirations.

But the two single worst myths to be disseminated is the thought that (1) the conflict is based on a religious notion; and (2) that Israel wants to annex the entire territory. I don't think there is a single Israeli citizen that would want to pay "forever" the cost of maintaining the Arab-Palestinian on social programs and compensation. In fact, I don't think that any of the surrounding Arab League nations appreciates the cost associated with the maintenance of the Palestinian. And even if we started today, it would be decades and decades before the Arab-Palestinian would be able to stand-alone, as envisioned in the Covenant. For more than three generations, the Palestinians have taught their children how to live of the UNRWA and the associated programs sponsored by or indirectly paid for by the donor contributors.

NO! The is no moral dilemma. Israel and the Arab Palestinians are much better-off if the Israelis don't Annex anything. In the 17 years that Jordan had the West Bank, the Jordanians could not make the economy work. Jordan was more than happy to give-up the territory then to suffer more unemployable Palestinians.

Just my opinion.
Most Respectfully,
R

Unemployable Palestinians you say? Frankly you're just a jumble of racism.

 

[Phoenall]

Zionism is Fascism according to Albert Einstein. I want a safe-haven for the Jews but how do you reconcile the immoral annexation of the indigenous people's homeland?


Alon Ben-Meir Become a fan

Senior Fellow, Center for Global Affairs, NYU

Error | US Message Board - Political Discussion Forum
I have long maintained that Israel's occupation of the West Bank defies the moral principle behind the creation of the state. Contrary to Prime Minister Netanyahu's assertion, the occupation erodes rather than buttresses Israel's national security and cannot be justified on either security or moral grounds. Unless Israel embraces a new moral path, no one can prevent it from unravelling from within only to become a pariah state that has lost its soul, wantonly abandoning the cherished dreams of its founding fathers.

There are four ethical theories--Kantian, utilitarian, virtue-based, and religious--that demonstrate the lack of moral foundation in the continuing occupation, which imposes upon Israelis the responsibility to bring it to a decisive end.

Your problem is that that area belonged to Israel long before any Arabs ever made it their home.

That was over 2,000 years ago Ape Man.

Wrong again