patrickcaturday
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- #21
This really baffles me ! During WWII a Holocaust took place in it 6,000,000 Jews died, approximately 9,200,000 Slavs ( Russian and Polish ) died, 1,500,000 Romani died. The act itself is heinous and barbaric, the rationale behind it is beneath contempt and should be exorcised from humanity. The reason that we should study and remember it is so that we will move away from it in the future and never let it happen again. Unfortunately we do not seem to be learning as events after WWII seem to indicate that humanity is still willing to charge into that depravity again and again. Holocausts have occurred in the past, the native American Holocaust and the Irish Holocaust to name two. Since WWII there has been Cambodia, Rwanda, Darfor and others. More are planed for the future as is stated in the Charter of Hamas.
In order to understand the Holocausts we must first of all not fight over the name itself. If various ethnicities wish to commemorate their own deaths in these Holocausts they should follow the example of the Jewish People ( Shoah ) the Romani People ( Porajmos ), and the Irish ( the Starvation ) All attempts at genocide are Holocausts !!! All of the victims should be recognized and respected equally.
That is why Avigdor Lieberman's attitude, as expressed in the following article, and the refusal of the Jewish Government to recognize the Armenian Holocaust, baffle me. Would someone care to attempt to enlighten me.[/COLOR]
02.06.2012 19:08 epress.am
Israel Should Not Interfere and Not Recognize Armenian Genocide: Foreign Minister
Israeli Foreign Minister Avigdor Lieberman has made his first public comment on the French bill on criminalization of denial of the Armenian Genocide.
In an interview with television channel RTVi, Lieberman publicly spoke out against Israel recognizing the massacres of Armenians in Ottoman Turkey as genocide.
Furthermore, RTVi reported last week that Lieberman had been against the term Holocaust since the state was established. Attempts to turn conflicts and massacres in Africa, Asia and Balkans into another Holocaust are unacceptable, he says.
The foreign minister emphasized that history should not turn into a political dispute. Thus, Israel should not interfere, he said, Vestnik Kavkaza reported.
Deputy Foreign Minister Daniel Ayalon said in May 2011 that the Israeli parliament would never recognize the Armenian Genocide, so as not to spoil relations with old strategic partner Azerbaijan over history.
He said four months later that mass murders of Armenians during WWI had been a sensitive issue, but it had not become a political problem. Ayalon added that Israel had never denied the Armenian tragedy but would not want to join the Turkish-Armenian confrontation in the issue.
mmIf you are not stupid, you already know the answer to the question and are only posting this nonsense as a pretext for attacking Israel. There are two issues here that you don't seem able to understand: is the massacre of Armenians by the Turks properly called a genocide; and should genocide and Holocaust be used interchangeably?
With regard to the first issue, historically, Israel has not wanted to offend an important ally, Turkey, which has never resolved its conflict with the Armenians, and currently Israel does not want to offend an important ally, Azerbaijan, which is currently involved in a conflict with Armenia. Facing a potentially existential threat from Iran, it would be irresponsible of the Israeli government not to place the welfare of the state and its citizens above labeling a massacre that occurred 100 years ago as a genocide.
With regard to the second issue, historically Holocaust has only been used in reference to the genocides perpetrated by nazi Germany. Especially with regard to the genocide of the Jews, Gypsies and some others, this genocide is different from all others in modern times, not only in scale and the level of organization dedicated to it, but also because, unlike all other genocides in modern times, the victims could not be reasonably said to have been in conflict or competition with the perpetrators. Since this genocide is so clearly different from all others in modern times, it is appropriate that its name should not be applied to other genocides even if this makes it harder for you to inspire hatred on Israel in others.
Thank You for answering my questions. I find the answers you provide to be unacceptable ! I find it hard to believe that Israel would be so influenced by Alliances that it would forgo the truth. Perhaps ( LOL ) I have a higher opinion of Israel than you do. I think that there must be some other deeper truth involved here perhaps it has something to do with Liberman's reluctance to apply the word Holocaust to any other genocides.
Historically you are wrong about the word Holocaust as you will see from the following Wiki article
Armenian Genocide
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Armenian Genocide origin of the word genocide and its connection to Armenia.
The Armenian Genocide[4] (Armenian: Հայոց Ցեղասպանություն, Armenian pronunciation: [hɑjotsʰ tsʰɛʁɑspɑnutʰjun]), also known as the Armenian Holocaust, the Armenian Massacres and, by Armenians, as the Great Crime (Մեծ Եղեռն, Armenian pronunciation: [mɛts jɛˈʁɛrn]) was the systematic killing of the Armenian population of the Ottoman Empire during and just after World War I.[5] It was implemented through wholesale massacres and deportations, with the deportations consisting of forced marches under conditions designed to lead to the death of the deportees. The total number of resulting Armenian deaths is generally held to have been between 1 million and 1.5 million.[6][7][8][9][10] Other ethnic groups were similarly attacked by the Ottoman Empire during this period, including Assyrians and Greeks, and some scholars consider those events to be part of the same policy of extermination.[11][12][13]
It is widely acknowledged to have been one of the first modern genocides,[14][15]:177[16] as scholars point to the organized manner in which the killings were carried out to eliminate the Armenians,[17] and it is the second most-studied case of genocide after the Holocaust.[18] The word genocide[19] was coined in order to describe these events.[20][21]
Also, although I can not find it at this time, when I was researching this article for the ME Board I recall that both Wilson And Churchill referred to it as the Armenian Holocaust
I AM NOT TRYING TO INSPIRE HATRED OF ANYONE LET ALONE ISRAEL !!! I am at this point just trying to learn as much as I can