It is just getting worse. the lies of 2006 have come full circle, time to own up libs

[JRK]

The melt down was a free market event
No-One forced no-one to make stupid loans
let me add
if the assets used for collateral had kept there value, those loans would not have been bad any-way no matter the situation
people loaned wealth to people who could not afford to pay that wealth back
GWB, BHO, nor Bill C where sitting there making them do that

BHO has done nothing to undo it either (drill baby drill as an example)

 

[Redfish]

Okay...but ONCE AGAIN....what can you do at the PEAK of a housing crisis????

And yeah, without stimulus it's likely the bank crashes would've just kept going, Washington Mutual and Lehman falling shows it was a chain reaction that wasn't stopping anytime soon.

liberals and rinos created the housing mess by forcing banks to give mortgages to people who could never make the payments.

those institutions should have been allowed to go through bankruptcy, so should GM and Chrysler. The govt should not be borrowing money from china to bail out failed US companies. Bankruptcy is not the end of the world. It works.

Okay, so if that's true why didn't Bush and the Republican controlled congress stop any of it while they had total power from 2003-2006?

Chrysler did go through bankruptcy.

Bush and the GOP should have stopped it. Why is it that a mistake made by Bush makes it OK for Obama to make the same mistake?

Chrysler got bailout loans, just like GM. Both should have gone through the entire bankruptcy process, paid off the creditors at a % of the amounts owed, been broken up into smaller more efficient units and restarted.

That was not allowed to happen because the UAW might have been the big loser. Those new companies would have had to have union representation votes, obama and the UAW could not take the chance that the union might be voted out-------------that is why the car companies were bailed out.

 

[TooTall]

2006? Who controlled both houses, the presidency and the Supreme Court? Whose policies had been in place for years? nuff said.

So you're saying that we should put Republicans in charge of everything again?

rdean, I'd never thought you'd say such a thing!

The things you learn ...

So you liked their damage? The millions of jobs moved to China? The ruined economy? If you listened to Republicans we would have no car industry. And that would have affected the steel, plastics and textiles industries.

God you guys are dumb. Can't you see the damage Republicans caused the country after so many of their policies were implemented. Only morons could turn the two weeks the Democrats actually controlled both houses into two years. And all the GOP denial. It's really the Democrats fault because they didn't stop the Republicans. What a ridiculous argument.

Those "millions of jobs" were actually 1.2 million and included the years 2007 and 2008 when the Democrats controlled Congress.

They now build Cadillac's in China thanks to Obama that cost a lot of American jobs and created a lot of Chinese jobs.

Obama gave away battery technology to China that cost a lot of American jobs.

And Caterpillar had to build factories in China with the resultant loss of American jobs and technology because of Obama's ineptness.

Under Obama's stewardship, Chinese factories sell to America freely with minimal restraint, but should American factories desire to sell their products to China, they face barrier after barrier. By permitting this unequal trading arrangement, Obama prevents the 1.2 million American manufacturing jobs lost since October 2008 from coming back.

As we related in the May 9 American Thinker (click here), President Obama recently let the Chinese government raise tariffs upon GM's made-in-America large-engine cars from about 25% to about 47%. As a result, even though GM is mainly owned by the U.S. government and by GM's unions, it agreed to build Cadillac factories in China and to give Cadillac's top-flight technology to its Chinese partner and competitor. Why? GM knew that it couldn't continue to sell American-made Cadillacs to the Chinese market.

The Chinese government also extorted electric car technology from GM, including its state-of-the-art battery technology, as a condition for producing and selling electric cars in China. In effect, Obama is outsourcing technology that he took over from GM's American creditors when he "rescued" GM from bankruptcy. As a result of his technology giveaways, not only do American workers lose jobs in the present, but they will continue to lose future jobs.

Similarly, by letting China place a 30% tariff on American-made excavators, Obama virtually forced Caterpillar, one of America's most efficient manufacturers, to build new small crawler factories in China and give technology to its Chinese partner in order to access the Chinese market, as we pointed out in the October 4, 2010 American Thinker (click here).

 

[Nyvin]

Those "millions of jobs" were actually 1.2 million and included the years 2007 and 2008 when the Democrats controlled Congress.

They now build Cadillac's in China thanks to Obama that cost a lot of American jobs and created a lot of Chinese jobs.

Obama gave away battery technology to China that cost a lot of American jobs.

And Caterpillar had to build factories in China with the resultant loss of American jobs and technology because of Obama's ineptness.

China was relentless on the battery technology firms, I really think it was just a matter of time.

 

[JRK]

liberals and rinos created the housing mess by forcing banks to give mortgages to people who could never make the payments.

those institutions should have been allowed to go through bankruptcy, so should GM and Chrysler. The govt should not be borrowing money from china to bail out failed US companies. Bankruptcy is not the end of the world. It works.

Okay, so if that's true why didn't Bush and the Republican controlled congress stop any of it while they had total power from 2003-2006?

Chrysler did go through bankruptcy.

Bush and the GOP should have stopped it. Why is it that a mistake made by Bush makes it OK for Obama to make the same mistake?

Chrysler got bailout loans, just like GM. Both should have gone through the entire bankruptcy process, paid off the creditors at a % of the amounts owed, been broken up into smaller more efficient units and restarted.

That was not allowed to happen because the UAW might have been the big loser. Those new companies would have had to have union representation votes, obama and the UAW could not take the chance that the union might be voted out-------------that is why the car companies were bailed out.

It was 100% about the UAW
all GM need was about 8 billllion
they ended up (along with GMAC) getting 70
who got the other 62?

Did General Motors Really Repay Its Taxpayer Bailout? | Fox News

When the American auto industry was on the brink of collapse, more than 1 million jobs were on the line, Gov. Romney said we should just let Detroit go bankrupt.

But GM and Chrysler did go bankrupt, even with Obama's $80B bailout. (And Detroit's own police tell outsiders to "enter Detroit at your own risk.") The difference is in how they went bankrupt. What Obama did was stiff bondholders and non-UAW workers, steal $20B from taxpayers, and give it all to the UAW. All told, those poor UAW guys, who used to make $70 an hour in pay and benefits, will get about $26B, or more than the entire cost of TARP.


Read more: Articles: Troubling Auto-Rescue Plunder (TARP)
Follow us: [MENTION=20123]American[/MENTION]Thinker on Twitter | AmericanThinker on Facebook

 

[Redfish]

Those "millions of jobs" were actually 1.2 million and included the years 2007 and 2008 when the Democrats controlled Congress.

They now build Cadillac's in China thanks to Obama that cost a lot of American jobs and created a lot of Chinese jobs.

Obama gave away battery technology to China that cost a lot of American jobs.

And Caterpillar had to build factories in China with the resultant loss of American jobs and technology because of Obama's ineptness.

China was relentless on the battery technology firms, I really think it was just a matter of time.

your attitude----"China is going to beat us anyway so might as well give up now"

That's not how americans think, that's not the attitude that made this the greatest country in the history of the world. That is a give-up liberal attitude, and it sucks.

 

[TooTall]

The last good year
exactly my point
it has went south sense

Yea, because on Monday, everything is perfect, but the next day, Tuesday, everything is rotten. What happens on Tuesday is completely unrelated to what went before. Is that what you are saying?

So the millions of jobs moved to China from 2001 to 2006 did nothing to hurt the economy. But the one job moved the very next day brought down the economy? The Bush tax cuts and the two unfunded wars created no deficit for years. But that one day, they created trillions?

Is there anything you guys won't believe? It's like the bottom half of the US has become concentrated into a single party. The "stupid" is shocking.

I want to hear these Republicans say the economy tanked in a single day.

It took a little less than two years from the time the Democrats took control of Congress for the economy to tank.

 

[TooTall]

Okay...but ONCE AGAIN....what can you do at the PEAK of a housing crisis????

And yeah, without stimulus it's likely the bank crashes would've just kept going, Washington Mutual and Lehman falling shows it was a chain reaction that wasn't stopping anytime soon.

liberals and rinos created the housing mess by forcing banks to give mortgages to people who could never make the payments.

those institutions should have been allowed to go through bankruptcy, so should GM and Chrysler. The govt should not be borrowing money from china to bail out failed US companies. Bankruptcy is not the end of the world. It works.

Okay, so if that's true why didn't Bush and the Republican controlled congress stop any of it while they had total power from 2003-2006?

Chrysler did go through bankruptcy.

So did GM.

 

[TooTall]

Those "millions of jobs" were actually 1.2 million and included the years 2007 and 2008 when the Democrats controlled Congress.

They now build Cadillac's in China thanks to Obama that cost a lot of American jobs and created a lot of Chinese jobs.

Obama gave away battery technology to China that cost a lot of American jobs.

And Caterpillar had to build factories in China with the resultant loss of American jobs and technology because of Obama's ineptness.

China was relentless on the battery technology firms, I really think it was just a matter of time.

Perhaps, but part of the GM rescue hastened the loss.

Here is another one:

What do Finnish cars, Mexican solar panels, and Danish windmills have in common? They were all funded by your tax dollars.

Thanks to President Obama, taxpayer money, mostly in the form of stimulus funds, ended up in the hands of companies overseas. Instead of creating jobs in America, the stimulus and other Obama policies created jobs or sent money to Finland, New Zealand, Indonesia, India, Mexico, Germany, Australia, Switzerland, China, Denmark, South Korea, the Dominican Republic, Thailand, Vietnam, Italy, Russia, Luxembourg, El Salvador, Great Britain, Spain, Japan, and France.

How did this happen? Consider the example of Fisker Automotive. The company received $500 million in loan guarantees from the U.S. government to produce electric cars. Then they took their money and decided to produce their $100,000 electric sports cars in Finland.

 

[TooTall]

It's no lie. GOP unified rule lasted all of a whopping six whole years before their policy mistakes, both foreign & domestic, started to inflict their damage.

The GOP majority was brought to a glorious end in 2006. Too bad the suffering under Dumbya had to continue for two of the longest years in American history. With the economy swirling the toilet, and two ill-thought and ill-fought wars, Obama saved America with the stimulus, auto maker bailout, Iraq withdrawal and getting OBL once and for all, something that should have happened ten years earlier.

Every conservative in America owes America an apology for Dumbya and his oafish GOP congress, even though I personally won't accept it. The damage you inflicted was just too great.

So you really think that the attack on the WTC and the Pentagon should have just been ignored. Perhaps we should have just accepted Pearl Harbor as an unfortunate mistake as well.

The TARP (stimulus to the uninformed) was a Bush program that Obama inherited and used billions of dollars to fund all of those 'non-existent "shovel ready" jobs.

The Status of Forces agreement to end our involvement in Iraq was signed sealed and delivered to Obama by Bush. Obama even managed to eff that up by not negotiating for a force of special ops to help the Iraqi arm maintain some semblance of order.

The auto bailout was Obama's and they still haven't paid back all of the loan. They should have been allowed to make it through bankruptcy without a government bailout IMO.

 

[TooTall]

who has had 5 years to change those policies and hasn't? btw, I am still waiting for you to provide even 1 piece of legislation enacted by bush that brought down the economy or ruined the housing market as you claimed. you can't do it can you?

Been asking the same question for years
Not one answer ever
they were lied to and then they hold those who lied to them them as heros
it is nuts

Hey that's easy. According to what I read here, TARP 1 was the reason the economy crashed. Who brought us TARP?

According to what I read here, the CRA was the reason the housing market collapsed. And who had the Congress and the WH (for a period) and COULD have overturned the CRA requirements and therefore averted the housing collapse. Who was the President that could have done that?

Then there is this. Who was the President when it was decided to run two wars and not pay for them? Who was that guy? And why didn't he pay for the wars? Now I know that wasn't "legislation" passed. It WAS legislation AVOIDED.

Then there is the prescription drug program. Who brought us that (with a middle of the night vote) and didn't PAY for that program?

What was the last Presidents name? And if the last President didn't collapse the economy, what did the last President do to improve the economy?Seems like the LACK of productive legislation from the last Presidency is a real problem NOW.

Bush brought us TARP to rescue the economy after it collapsed and 97% of the loans have been paid back.

Only the Congress could overturn CRA and the Democrats had two years to do that. Why didn't they?

Congress authorized both of those wars with the support and votes of (gasp) John Kerry and Hillary Clinton. If 911 wasn't reason enough to go to war, what is?

Medicare Part D is one of the few federal programs that has consistently come in UNDER budget.

The last President kept unemployment around 5% for most of his 8 years in office.

President's do not pass legislation, they only sign legislation that is passed by the Congress.

 

[JRK]

Those "millions of jobs" were actually 1.2 million and included the years 2007 and 2008 when the Democrats controlled Congress.

They now build Cadillac's in China thanks to Obama that cost a lot of American jobs and created a lot of Chinese jobs.

Obama gave away battery technology to China that cost a lot of American jobs.

And Caterpillar had to build factories in China with the resultant loss of American jobs and technology because of Obama's ineptness.

China was relentless on the battery technology firms, I really think it was just a matter of time.

your attitude----"China is going to beat us anyway so might as well give up now"

That's not how americans think, that's not the attitude that made this the greatest country in the history of the world. That is a give-up liberal attitude, and it sucks.

as long as China pays its people slave labor money and treats them as dogs, they will never amount to anything

 

[naturegirl]

America is coming back after the worst economic disaster, created by Bush and the far right wing of the GOP, in eighty years.

No more neo-conservatism, no more free-wheeling businesses.

Jake, the meltdown wasn't created overnight, it wasn't just a "Bush did it" thing. The meltdown was decades in the making and cultural in its DNA. It was a massive building of torque within our financial system, fed by virtually all of us, that had to break at some point.

It was a little more complicated than something we can just blame on one specific group of people, especially to make some kind of political statement.

.

Leave Jake alone. He apparently thinks that Bill Clinton was a neo-con.

Shhh, :whispering: he also thinks he's a republican sometimes.

 

[JRK]

It's no lie. GOP unified rule lasted all of a whopping six whole years before their policy mistakes, both foreign & domestic, started to inflict their damage.

The GOP majority was brought to a glorious end in 2006. Too bad the suffering under Dumbya had to continue for two of the longest years in American history. With the economy swirling the toilet, and two ill-thought and ill-fought wars, Obama saved America with the stimulus, auto maker bailout, Iraq withdrawal and getting OBL once and for all, something that should have happened ten years earlier.

Every conservative in America owes America an apology for Dumbya and his oafish GOP congress, even though I personally won't accept it. The damage you inflicted was just too great.

whats the worse thing about discussing these issues with you guys is that your so mis informed
GOP had congress from 94 through 2006 except the senate 00-02
that would be 12 years
they write the laws and appropriate the cash
the 2 wars would not ever occur without terrorisim, thats not our fault
the stimulus did what?
the auto bailout? thank GWB for that
without W there is no GM in 2009

your lost bud

 

[asterism]

Okay, the stimulus was needed...but anyway.

The Dems took power in 2007...2007 was the peak of the housing crisis....what can you realistically do at the PEAK of a crisis? You can't stop it at all.

It appears you think that only housing suffered in the crash.

Impending tax increases had an impact also. I know I cut back and didn't start new projects for a few years.

 

[asterism]

Okay, the stimulus was needed...but anyway.

The Dems took power in 2007...2007 was the peak of the housing crisis....what can you realistically do at the PEAK of a crisis? You can't stop it at all.

Needed? it accomplished nothing except increasing the national debt. unemployment did not go down, the GDP did not change, more people went into poverty and on food stamps.

nothing that obama has done has worked, his policies are a complete and utter failure.

Okay...but ONCE AGAIN....what can you do at the PEAK of a housing crisis????

And yeah, without stimulus it's likely the bank crashes would've just kept going, Washington Mutual and Lehman falling shows it was a chain reaction that wasn't stopping anytime soon.

You're confusing TARP with Stimulus. The financial crisis was already over when the Stimulus was passed.

 

[Lovebears65]

America is coming back after the worst economic disaster, created by Bush and the far right wing of the GOP, in eighty years.

No more neo-conservatism, no more free-wheeling businesses.

in 2006 the DEMS controlled both house and Senate.. which controls the money so if anyone is to blame for the crash it is the DEMS. But, you believe what you want

 

[asterism]

Okay...but ONCE AGAIN....what can you do at the PEAK of a housing crisis????

And yeah, without stimulus it's likely the bank crashes would've just kept going, Washington Mutual and Lehman falling shows it was a chain reaction that wasn't stopping anytime soon.

liberals and rinos created the housing mess by forcing banks to give mortgages to people who could never make the payments.

those institutions should have been allowed to go through bankruptcy, so should GM and Chrysler. The govt should not be borrowing money from china to bail out failed US companies. Bankruptcy is not the end of the world. It works.

Okay, so if that's true why didn't Bush and the Republican controlled congress stop any of it while they had total power from 2003-2006?

Chrysler did go through bankruptcy.

Any reform to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac was blocked with filibuster threats from Dodd and Obama.

Also, the purpose of the GM bailout was to avoid bankruptcy. How did that one work out?

 

[Nyvin]

Needed? it accomplished nothing except increasing the national debt. unemployment did not go down, the GDP did not change, more people went into poverty and on food stamps.

nothing that obama has done has worked, his policies are a complete and utter failure.

Okay...but ONCE AGAIN....what can you do at the PEAK of a housing crisis????

And yeah, without stimulus it's likely the bank crashes would've just kept going, Washington Mutual and Lehman falling shows it was a chain reaction that wasn't stopping anytime soon.

You're confusing TARP with Stimulus. The financial crisis was already over when the Stimulus was passed.

Already over? banking failures continued all the way until the end of 2010. Still today the financial field requires QE to keep liquidity going.

 

[Nyvin]

Okay, the stimulus was needed...but anyway.

The Dems took power in 2007...2007 was the peak of the housing crisis....what can you realistically do at the PEAK of a crisis? You can't stop it at all.

It appears you think that only housing suffered in the crash.

Impending tax increases had an impact also. I know I cut back and didn't start new projects for a few years.

Oh okay, so we were supposed to just go the rest of history with no tax increases...yeah okay.