Jews and Antisemites

[Coyote]

Many jews especially in Europe and Asia historically had to deal with non jews who wouldn't hire jews simply because that they were jews.

Therefore, to survive they had to create their own businesses. Therefore, the incentive to be entreneuers and work drive has helped them succeed.


They also place great value on education.

I think that has a lot to do with it, plus - a long history in many countries, particularly Europe, of Jews not being allowed to own land or engage in certain occupations which limited their choices.

 

[Pennywise]

I look at people as individuals, who should be judged on their own merit - not cliches and stereotypes. When you start doing that you lose site of humanity. Just my opinion.

I haven't heard of McDonald, however I looked him and this is what Wikipedia has to say:



That sounds more like a thin veneer of "science" aiming to cloak what is in reality little more than modern version of the old "Jews are secretely controling the world" conspiracy theory.

You should discover for yourself whether or not his concepts have merit. I myself would have brushed them off years ago, and it's important to take into consideration that Wiki is not gospel. It's an open access site that anyone can contribute to.

Of course the throngs of University types will dismiss him. When someone goes against the grain, the standard reaction is rejection. You would have to read his work and judge for yourself if you are so inclined.

Frequently, when other scientists (university types) dismiss a "scientist" it's because what he is promoting isn't science.

I see. I suppose you will say the same for those scientists who believe man caused "global warming" is bunk, because they aren't promoting science, right?

 

[Coyote]

You should discover for yourself whether or not his concepts have merit. I myself would have brushed them off years ago, and it's important to take into consideration that Wiki is not gospel. It's an open access site that anyone can contribute to.

Of course the throngs of University types will dismiss him. When someone goes against the grain, the standard reaction is rejection. You would have to read his work and judge for yourself if you are so inclined.

Frequently, when other scientists (university types) dismiss a "scientist" it's because what he is promoting isn't science.

I see. I suppose you will say the same for those scientists who believe man caused "global warming" is bunk, because they aren't promoting science, right?

Yup. At this time they represent an outlier of scientific opinion and much of their research doesn't even go through the peer review process. Junk science is junk science.

 

[Coyote]

The average IQ for white Gentiles is 100. The average for Orientals is 106. the average for Ashkenazi Jews is 110.

According to?

Race Differences in Intelligence: An Evolutionary Analysis is a 2006 book by controversial race and intelligence writer Richard Lynn reviewing the worldwide literature on IQ testing and arguing for in part genetic racial differences and with a discussion on the causes and consequences...

The book claims to represent the largest collection and review of the global Intelligence Quotient (IQ) data, surveying 620 published studies from around the world, with a total of 813,778 tested individuals. Lynn's meta-analysis lists East Asians (IQ 105), Europeans (100), Inuit (91), South East Asians (87), Native Americans (87), Pacific Islanders (85), South Asians and North Africans (84), Indians (82), non-bushmen Sub-Saharan Africans (67), Australian Aborigines (62), Bushmen and Pygmies (54). The average human IQ of the world is estimated to be 90.[3]...

Ashkenazi Jews who Lynn classifies as West Asian/European hybrids, average 108-115 in the U.S. and Britain.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_Differences_in_Intelligence_(book)

I have to admit - I'm extremely skeptical of attempts to classify intelligence by race - it's impossible to seperate race from culture as well levels of education and opportunity to excel amongst these groups. It's impossible to create a test that can adequately address all those variables. In addition to that - many "races" are in reality mixed, particularly in the US where "black" is still largely defined by the "one drop rule".

 

[abu afak]

According to?

Race Differences in Intelligence: An Evolutionary Analysis is a 2006 book by controversial race and intelligence writer Richard Lynn reviewing the worldwide literature on IQ testing and arguing for in part genetic racial differences and with a discussion on the causes and consequences...

The book claims to represent the largest collection and review of the global Intelligence Quotient (IQ) data, surveying 620 published studies from around the world, with a total of 813,778 tested individuals. Lynn's meta-analysis lists East Asians (IQ 105), Europeans (100), Inuit (91), South East Asians (87), Native Americans (87), Pacific Islanders (85), South Asians and North Africans (84), Indians (82), non-bushmen Sub-Saharan Africans (67), Australian Aborigines (62), Bushmen and Pygmies (54). The average human IQ of the world is estimated to be 90.[3]...

Ashkenazi Jews who Lynn classifies as West Asian/European hybrids, average 108-115 in the U.S. and Britain.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_Differences_in_Intelligence_(book)

I have to admit - I'm extremely skeptical of attempts to classify intelligence by race - it's impossible to seperate race from culture as well levels of education and opportunity to excel amongst these groups. It's impossible to create a test that can adequately address all those variables. In addition to that - many "races" are in reality mixed, particularly in the US where "black" is still largely defined by the "one drop rule".

All your concerns have been addressed in various ways by IQ researchers who are, of course, aware of test biases.
The Gaps persist despite culture, geography, income, etc.
I addressed all of that in this string:
http://www.usmessageboard.com/race-...rences-in-average-iq-are-largely-genetic.html
despite idiotic and trolling opponents.
Thankfully it was closed, regrettably it had to be.
An active 10 day run tho.
`

 

[Friends]

All your concerns have been addressed in various ways by IQ researchers who are, of course, aware of test biases.
The Gaps persist despite culture, geography, income, etc.
I addressed all of that in this string:
http://www.usmessageboard.com/race-...rences-in-average-iq-are-largely-genetic.html
despite idiotic and trolling opponents.
Thankfully it was closed, regrettably it had to be.
An active 10 day run tho.
`

That was an interesting thread. Why was it closed? I wanted to contribute to it.

A lot of people, even people on the right, do not want to recognize the importance of being born with lots of high IQ genes.

People on the right want to believe that wealth is the reward for virtuous living. They want to convince others of that if they are rich. They want to believe it if they are not rich. They do not want to think that something over which they have no control will keep them from achieving their aspirations.

People on the left want to believe that social reform and social welfare spending can end poverty and racial inequality.

 

[Esmeralda]

Your basic premise is flawed. Globally, there's only about 14 million Jews (of which I'm one and living below the Federal Poverty line,) and over 2 billions Christians (Catholics and Protestants.) So to say Jews are generally more affluent is factually wrong. Even if all 14 million of us were millionaires, it'd still be wrong. It's simple ratios.

I am not claiming that all the Jews in the world make and have more money than all the Christians in the world. I am claiming that the average Jewish income is higher than the average Christian income. The reason for this is that Jews tend to be more intelligent than Christians. The average Ashkenazi Jewish IQ is estimated to be from 110 to 115.

Although I do not worship rich people, I admire intelligent people. That is one of the reasons I admire Jews.

LOL Two fallacies now. Jews do not tend to be richer than other people: that's a stereotype and not true. Jews do not tend to be smarter than other people: that's also a stereotype and not true.

 

[Esmeralda]

Your basic premise is flawed. Globally, there's only about 14 million Jews (of which I'm one and living below the Federal Poverty line,) and over 2 billions Christians (Catholics and Protestants.) So to say Jews are generally more affluent is factually wrong. Even if all 14 million of us were millionaires, it'd still be wrong. It's simple ratios.

I am not claiming that all the Jews in the world make and have more money than all the Christians in the world. I am claiming that the average Jewish income is higher than the average Christian income. The reason for this is that Jews tend to be more intelligent than Christians. The average Ashkenazi Jewish IQ is estimated to be from 110 to 115.

Although I do not worship rich people, I admire intelligent people. That is one of the reasons I admire Jews.

I don't think Jews are any more or less intelligent than any other people - but they do, as a group, place a high value on education which can lead to higher-income jobs. I have seen no statistics however regarding affluence amongst religious groups (or IQ amongst religious groups) and I don't know frankly how you could apply that across cultures and nations.

I do agree though, that in times of economic stress, or social/political unrest you see a rise in bigotry against minorities - whether it's anti-semitism, Islamophobia, racism or bigotry against ethnic groups. It also seems to coincide with an increased willingness to buy into conspiracy theory crap

Coyote is right. There is no evidence that certain religious groups are more intelligent or richer than any other. People do tend to express anger at minorities in times of stress, and the Jewish people have long been a target due to anti-semitism, which has a long history and isn't based on jealousy over economics or intelligence.

My ex-partner, my ex-sister-in-law, and a very good friend of 25 years are all Jewish. They are just normal people, not richer or smarter than anyone else. And they come from families which are just normal, average people. They don't single themselves out as special, either, because they are Jewish.

This kind of thinking, putting people in groups and catagories, labeling them, applying certain stereotypes to them, etc., is one of the greatest problems of mankind. We need to stop doing this.

 

[Asclepias]

All your concerns have been addressed in various ways by IQ researchers who are, of course, aware of test biases.
The Gaps persist despite culture, geography, income, etc.
I addressed all of that in this string:
http://www.usmessageboard.com/race-...rences-in-average-iq-are-largely-genetic.html
despite idiotic and trolling opponents.
Thankfully it was closed, regrettably it had to be.
An active 10 day run tho.
`

That was an interesting thread. Why was it closed? I wanted to contribute to it.

A lot of people, even people on the right, do not want to recognize the importance of being born with lots of high IQ genes.

People on the right want to believe that wealth is the reward for virtuous living. They want to convince others of that if they are rich. They want to believe it if they are not rich. They do not want to think that something over which they have no control will keep them from achieving their aspirations.

People on the left want to believe that social reform and social welfare spending can end poverty and racial inequality.

It was probably closed due to it being silly. The IQ test was developed by the Father of Eugenics. That in of itself invalidates the test. You cannot determine someones IQ based on a test. There are way too many variables that cannot be tested for.

 

[jwoodie]

Bernie Madoff, anyone?

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Jews tend to be more affluent than Gentiles, even white Gentiles. This can make them politically vulnerable during periods of widespread economic stagnation or decline. The Great Depression gave us Franklin Roosevelt, who as we know was not hostile to Jews. However, it gave Germany Adolf Hitler.

Even in the United States during the Depression Father Coughlin became a radio commentator with a wide following. Although he advocated nationalizing major industries and strong labor unions, he also attacked Jews and was somewhat sympathetic to Adolf Hitler.

White Gentiles who are angry about their economic circumstances and reluctant to direct that anger toward the rich in general often find it easier to be hostile to rich Jews. That hostility can segue into hostility against all Jews.

How do you feel about Jews? I will begin this thread by saying that I am a Gentile and that I have a high regard for Jews. However, I am not interested in flaming antisemites, at least not in this thread. I want this to be a civil discussion. If you do not like Jews, and/or if you think they as a group have a bad influence on American society, please explain why you feel that way.

If you share my high regard for Jews, please explain why. Eventually I will.

Jews rose to affluence over Gentiles because the Gentiles were against banking and charging interest. Indeed, it was un-Christian like to loan someone money and charge them interests. Blame the Christians for their stupidity. The Jews found an economic opportunity and they exploited it. Good for them!

FDR was not hostile to Jews? Check out 26:20 of this video as Beck reads a transcript from the Yalta Conference.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hs5tYh32vE0]Glen Beck & M Stanton Evans Blacklisted by History - YouTube[/ame]

Jews loaning with interest to non-Jews is a commandment. It's another commandment not to charge fellow Jews interest on loans but most everyone does anyway.

Any success over the average Jews may seem to display is because fair business practices are written into Judaism. As to higher IQs, I can't verify that but would mention when your language has numerical equivilents for every letter A=1, B=2 etc. you're probably going to have a more analytic mind.

Not to make a loan to an Israelite on interest (Lev. 25:37)
Not to borrow on interest (Deut. 23:20) (because this would cause the lender to sin)

and some pertinant others:

To lend to a poor person (Ex. 22:24) (even though the passage says "if you lend" it is understood as obligatory)
Not to demand from a poor man repayment of his debt, when the creditor knows that he cannot pay, nor press him (Ex. 22:24)
Not to commit fraud in measuring (Lev. 19:35)
To ensure that scales and weights are correct (Lev. 19:36)
Not to possess inaccurate measures and weights (Deut. 25:13-14)

 

[Iceman]

Jews tend to be more affluent than Gentiles, even white Gentiles. This can make them politically vulnerable during periods of widespread economic stagnation or decline. The Great Depression gave us Franklin Roosevelt, who as we know was not hostile to Jews. However, it gave Germany Adolf Hitler.

Even in the United States during the Depression Father Coughlin became a radio commentator with a wide following. Although he advocated nationalizing major industries and strong labor unions, he also attacked Jews and was somewhat sympathetic to Adolf Hitler.

White Gentiles who are angry about their economic circumstances and reluctant to direct that anger toward the rich in general often find it easier to be hostile to rich Jews. That hostility can segue into hostility against all Jews.

How do you feel about Jews? I will begin this thread by saying that I am a Gentile and that I have a high regard for Jews. However, I am not interested in flaming antisemites, at least not in this thread. I want this to be a civil discussion. If you do not like Jews, and/or if you think they as a group have a bad influence on American society, please explain why you feel that way.

If you share my high regard for Jews, please explain why. Eventually I will.

Jews rose to affluence over Gentiles because the Gentiles were against banking and charging interest. Indeed, it was un-Christian like to loan someone money and charge them interests. Blame the Christians for their stupidity. The Jews found an economic opportunity and they exploited it. Good for them!

FDR was not hostile to Jews? Check out 26:20 of this video as Beck reads a transcript from the Yalta Conference.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hs5tYh32vE0]Glen Beck & M Stanton Evans Blacklisted by History - YouTube[/ame]

Maybe FDR realized the mistake of sending 450,000 Americans to die in a war antagonized by powerful Jewish interests.

It is too little too late in my opinion. He did irreparable harm to the United States and to Europe for his involvement in that war.

 

[Friends]

LOL Two fallacies now. Jews do not tend to be richer than other people: that's a stereotype and not true. Jews do not tend to be smarter than other people: that's also a stereotype and not true.

As David Leonhardt writes in The New York Times Magazine, citing a study by the Pew Forum on Religion and Public Life:
The economic differences among the country's various religions are strikingly large, much larger than the differences among states and even larger than those among racial groups.

At the top of the income scale stand Reform Jews, 67 percent of whose households make more than $75,000 a year. By comparison, only about 30 percent of the general population makes that kind of money, according to the Pew study.
Who's Richer, WASPs or Jews? - CBS News


Lynn's 2006 Race Differences in Intelligence: An Evolutionary Analysis[30] is the largest review of the global cognitive ability data...

Ashkenazi Jews average 107-115 in the U.S. and Britain, but those in Israel average lower.
Richard Lynn - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Friends]

Maybe FDR realized the mistake of sending 450,000 Americans to die in a war antagonized by powerful Jewish interests.

It is too little too late in my opinion. He did irreparable harm to the United States and to Europe for his involvement in that war.

If the United States had avoided World War II Germany would have conquered the mainland of Europe. Japan would have conquered China. These would have been predatory empires. An additional four million Jews would have been killed. I am glad none of this happened.

Far from doing "irreparable harm to the United States," the United States emerged from the Second World War richer and stronger than before the war.

 

[Truthseeker1]

Your basic premise is flawed. Globally, there's only about 14 million Jews (of which I'm one and living below the Federal Poverty line,) and over 2 billions Christians (Catholics and Protestants.) So to say Jews are generally more affluent is factually wrong. Even if all 14 million of us were millionaires, it'd still be wrong. It's simple ratios.

I am not claiming that all the Jews in the world make and have more money than all the Christians in the world. I am claiming that the average Jewish income is higher than the average Christian income. The reason for this is that Jews tend to be more intelligent than Christians. The average Ashkenazi Jewish IQ is estimated to be from 110 to 115.

Although I do not worship rich people, I admire intelligent people. That is one of the reasons I admire Jews.

Well said. Due to anti semitic sentiments [in some countries] many Jews became self employed merchants, and quite proficient business persons. Don't hate a person for being successful.

 

[BDBoop]

Two of my closest friends are Jewish. Both are highly intelligent.

So don't ask me, I got nothin.

 

[dreolin]

According to?

Race Differences in Intelligence: An Evolutionary Analysis is a 2006 book by controversial race and intelligence writer Richard Lynn reviewing the worldwide literature on IQ testing and arguing for in part genetic racial differences and with a discussion on the causes and consequences...

The book claims to represent the largest collection and review of the global Intelligence Quotient (IQ) data, surveying 620 published studies from around the world, with a total of 813,778 tested individuals. Lynn's meta-analysis lists East Asians (IQ 105), Europeans (100), Inuit (91), South East Asians (87), Native Americans (87), Pacific Islanders (85), South Asians and North Africans (84), Indians (82), non-bushmen Sub-Saharan Africans (67), Australian Aborigines (62), Bushmen and Pygmies (54). The average human IQ of the world is estimated to be 90.[3]...

Ashkenazi Jews who Lynn classifies as West Asian/European hybrids, average 108-115 in the U.S. and Britain.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_Differences_in_Intelligence_(book)

I have to admit - I'm extremely skeptical of attempts to classify intelligence by race - it's impossible to seperate race from culture as well levels of education and opportunity to excel amongst these groups. It's impossible to create a test that can adequately address all those variables. In addition to that - many "races" are in reality mixed, particularly in the US where "black" is still largely defined by the "one drop rule".

An inherently subjective test cannot produce objective results from which to draw accurate conclusions.

But what the hell do you know anyway. Richard Lynn's test results indicate men are more intelligent than woman, and I just dropped a few points by agreeing with you, I am sure.

 

[dreolin]

Two of my closest friends are Jewish. Both are highly intelligent.

So don't ask me, I got nothin.

I know a lot of people of different ethnicities and cultures and some are stupid and some are smart.

I appreciate people who are smart enough to realize that if they proclaim one race as "smarter" they are at the exact same instant proclaiming another race as "less smart".

 

[dreolin]

To Coyote:
According to Everyone.
Not in dispute.
See below for more.

"Kevin McDonald"
Is widely viewed as an antisemite but he has an unusual twist.
He acknowledges Jews are smarter/Have higher IQs, but asserts this is a conscious, nefarious, inter-generational, genetic strategy.

For those similar to McDonald who think it's merely tribal networking:

User:Alansohn/Ashkenazi intelligence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[.....]
Expert Findings

Psychometrics research has found that Ashkenazi Jews have the Highest mean score of any ethnic group on standardized tests of general intelligence, at roughly one half to one standard deviation higher than the mean of the general white population.[5] These studies also indicate that this advantage is primarily in verbal and mathematical performance; spatial performance is about 90, if whites are taken as the mean. Estimates vary from 107 to 117. [6][7][8][9]

Achievement

Ashkenazi Jews have made disproportionately Large contributions to presumably Intellectual pursuits.
Though they are about ¼ of 1% of the world's population, they comprise 28% of Nobel Prize winners in Physics, Chemistry, Physiology or Medicine, and Economics,
and have accounted for more than Half of world Chess Champions.[10]

In the United States, Ashkenazi Jews represent less than 2% of the population, but have won 40% of the Nobel Prizes in Science awarded to U.S. citizens, and 25% of all Turing Awards.

A significant decline in the number of Nobel Prizes awarded to Europeans and a corresponding increase in the number of prizes awarded to U.S. citizens occurred at the same time as Nazi persecutions of Jews drove them from Europe during the 1930s and the Holocaust reduced their number in Europe during the 1940s.[11]
[.......]

EDIT/Note
This does not go for all Jews, only Ashkenazim who are app 75% of total: perhaps 90% in the USA/EU, 60% or less in Israel.
Sephardim, 'Spanish'/Arabo-Mizrahi Jews are somewhat below 100 but there is less work on that.
`

If "according to everyone" and "not in dispute" were in play, then this thread would not even exist.

Did you ever consider that to measure "intelligence" effectively, you would have to control the environment of those being tested entirely from birth.

I have to think that a werll fed kid from an economically affluent family will do better on whatever standard intelligence test you throw at them than will a hungry kid who lives in poverty, and a lot of reasons for those two conditions is past histories of racism.

I do not want to accuse anyone of racism but going down this road will take you there.

 

[dreolin]

All your concerns have been addressed in various ways by IQ researchers who are, of course, aware of test biases.
The Gaps persist despite culture, geography, income, etc.
I addressed all of that in this string:
http://www.usmessageboard.com/race-...rences-in-average-iq-are-largely-genetic.html
despite idiotic and trolling opponents.
Thankfully it was closed, regrettably it had to be.
An active 10 day run tho.
`

That was an interesting thread. Why was it closed? I wanted to contribute to it.

A lot of people, even people on the right, do not want to recognize the importance of being born with lots of high IQ genes.

People on the right want to believe that wealth is the reward for virtuous living. They want to convince others of that if they are rich. They want to believe it if they are not rich. They do not want to think that something over which they have no control will keep them from achieving their aspirations.

People on the left want to believe that social reform and social welfare spending can end poverty and racial inequality.

Are the both of you aware that you are essentially exxpounding the theories of Adolph Hitler before J.D. Watson, Francis Crick, and Rosalind Franklin came down the pike and gave to us a genetic model that opened up the field.