Leviticus 18:22 literal translation

[Delta4Embassy]

Much of the gay debate hinges on whether or not homosexual acts are sinful. So often ignorant people cite Leviticus 18:22 for it's usual rendering of,

You shall not lie with man as with woman. It is abomination.

But that's not what it says. What it actually says is this,

“You shall not lie with a male [on] the bedding (or bed) of a woman (or wife), it is a despised thing (or despicable act).”

Modern translations took to using the more familar version for purely political reasons.

"The Bible doesn’t always tell us why something is “despised,” and hence we have to use reason. It is likely that the two men were having sex on the bed of the woman to despise her and rub it in her face that she wasn’t woman enough. Reuben slept with his father’s wife on his dad’s bed to despise his father Jacob. Also, according to the book “How the People Lived in the Bible [HPLB], on pg. 117, it states: “The women’s portion of the tent was separated by a curtain from the men’s half, and it was strictly off limits. A male stranger who entered a woman’s quarters could be punished with death. Sisera hid in Jael’s tent, but paid for it with his life (Judg. 4:18-21).”"
Leviticus 18 22

 

[Statistikhengst]

Having a mechitza (sheet to separate the genders) in a tent (Ma Tovu) was totally common.

 

[peach174]

Much of the gay debate hinges on whether or not homosexual acts are sinful. So often ignorant people cite Leviticus 18:22 for it's usual rendering of,

You shall not lie with man as with woman. It is abomination.

But that's not what it says. What it actually says is this,

“You shall not lie with a male [on] the bedding (or bed) of a woman (or wife), it is a despised thing (or despicable act).”

Modern translations took to using the more familar version for purely political reasons.

"The Bible doesn’t always tell us why something is “despised,” and hence we have to use reason. It is likely that the two men were having sex on the bed of the woman to despise her and rub it in her face that she wasn’t woman enough. Reuben slept with his father’s wife on his dad’s bed to despise his father Jacob. Also, according to the book “How the People Lived in the Bible [HPLB], on pg. 117, it states: “The women’s portion of the tent was separated by a curtain from the men’s half, and it was strictly off limits. A male stranger who entered a woman’s quarters could be punished with death. Sisera hid in Jael’s tent, but paid for it with his life (Judg. 4:18-21).”"
Leviticus 18 22

Modern translations for political reasons?
The King James Version was written in 1611
LEVITICUS 18 22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind it is abomination.
Thou shalt not lie with mankinde, as with womankinde: it is abomination.
- King James Version (1611)

You are the one who is using the modern translation.

 

[syonidv]

It is likely that the two men were having sex on the bed of the woman to despise her and rub it in her face that she wasn’t woman enough.

I'd stick with the more traditional Leviticus 18:22 subversion, which is that the scripture only refers to homosexual acts committed as an act of temple worship, etc.

It's almost as ridiculous a cop-out, but not quite.

Debunking of Common Pro-LGBT "Scriptural" Arguments

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Having a mechitza (sheet to separate the genders) in a tent (Ma Tovu) was totally common.

Still is in at least orthodox synagogues. Men and women are segregated at worship. And they take it VERY seriously. Recall an article from NYC about problems rising fromt his separation when services let out and men and women being in too-close a proximity outside on the sidewalk. Took to staggering the sexes departure, men then women.

 

[irosie91]

Much of the gay debate hinges on whether or not homosexual acts are sinful. So often ignorant people cite Leviticus 18:22 for it's usual rendering of,

You shall not lie with man as with woman. It is abomination.

But that's not what it says. What it actually says is this,

“You shall not lie with a male [on] the bedding (or bed) of a woman (or wife), it is a despised thing (or despicable act).”

Modern translations took to using the more familar version for purely political reasons.

"The Bible doesn’t always tell us why something is “despised,” and hence we have to use reason. It is likely that the two men were having sex on the bed of the woman to despise her and rub it in her face that she wasn’t woman enough. Reuben slept with his father’s wife on his dad’s bed to despise his father Jacob. Also, according to the book “How the People Lived in the Bible [HPLB], on pg. 117, it states: “The women’s portion of the tent was separated by a curtain from the men’s half, and it was strictly off limits. A male stranger who entered a woman’s quarters could be punished with death. Sisera hid in Jael’s tent, but paid for it with his life (Judg. 4:18-21).”"
Leviticus 18 22

Modern translations for political reasons?
The King James Version was written in 1611
LEVITICUS 18 22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind it is abomination.
Thou shalt not lie with mankinde, as with womankinde: it is abomination.
- King James Version (1611)

You are the one who is using the modern translation.

Peach----I began to learn a bit of Hebrew in my mid teens----
I very quickly realized that the popular translations of the bible are a bit misleading. Of course there are problems with all translations. --------the KJV is really -----sorta ok----but -------well-----misleading and clearly influenced by the biases of the day. Attempts to precisely interpret the intent of the writers based on the KJV and "religion today"------
does not work. Persons who say------"this is what the bible means TO ME"--------are missing lots. Of course they have a right to "FREEDOM OF THOUGHT"------idiotic though it may be

 

[peach174]

Much of the gay debate hinges on whether or not homosexual acts are sinful. So often ignorant people cite Leviticus 18:22 for it's usual rendering of,

You shall not lie with man as with woman. It is abomination.

But that's not what it says. What it actually says is this,

“You shall not lie with a male [on] the bedding (or bed) of a woman (or wife), it is a despised thing (or despicable act).”

Modern translations took to using the more familar version for purely political reasons.

"The Bible doesn’t always tell us why something is “despised,” and hence we have to use reason. It is likely that the two men were having sex on the bed of the woman to despise her and rub it in her face that she wasn’t woman enough. Reuben slept with his father’s wife on his dad’s bed to despise his father Jacob. Also, according to the book “How the People Lived in the Bible [HPLB], on pg. 117, it states: “The women’s portion of the tent was separated by a curtain from the men’s half, and it was strictly off limits. A male stranger who entered a woman’s quarters could be punished with death. Sisera hid in Jael’s tent, but paid for it with his life (Judg. 4:18-21).”"
Leviticus 18 22

Modern translations for political reasons?
The King James Version was written in 1611
LEVITICUS 18 22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind it is abomination.
Thou shalt not lie with mankinde, as with womankinde: it is abomination.
- King James Version (1611)

You are the one who is using the modern translation.

Peach----I began to learn a bit of Hebrew in my mid teens----
I very quickly realized that the popular translations of the bible are a bit misleading. Of course there are problems with all translations. --------the KJV is really -----sorta ok----but -------well-----misleading and clearly influenced by the biases of the day. Attempts to precisely interpret the intent of the writers based on the KJV and "religion today"------
does not work. Persons who say------"this is what the bible means TO ME"--------are missing lots. Of course they have a right to "FREEDOM OF THOUGHT"------idiotic though it may be

From the writings of the Torah by Rabbi Ishmael who explains the verse very well.
The person who writes this blog has studied from the Rabbi who was -
Rabbi Ishmael (Hebrew: ישמעאל), who lived between 90-135 A.C.E was a Tanna (a rabbinic sage whose views are recorded in the Mishnah).
Rabbi Ishmael was a prominent and excellent sage among the fathers of the Talmudical literature. Ishmael's teachings were calculated to promote peace and goodwill among all, as written in Avot 3:15-


Leviticus 18 22 according to Rabbi Ishmael SOB s Grins Grumps
וְאֶת זָכָר לֹא תִשְׁכַּב מִשְׁכְּבֵי אִשָּׁה תּוֹעֵבָה הִוא
“A male do not lie the lyings of a woman; it is an abomination.”

Kelal (general): Leviticus 18:6 says אִישׁ אִישׁ אֶל-כָּל-שְׁאֵר בְּשָׂרוֹ לֹא תִקְרְבוּ לְגַלּוֹת עֶרְוָה — “None of you shall come near anyone of his own flesh to uncover nakedness.”

Perat (specific): Verses 18:7-20 list a series of specific sexual prohibitions, all referring to relations between a man and a woman. A man may not have sex with any of his close female relatives by blood or by marriage, or with another man’s wife.

Kelal (general): Leviticus 18:22 says וְאֶת זָכָר לֹא תִשְׁכַּב מִשְׁכְּבֵי אִשָּׁה תּוֹעֵבָה הִוא — “A male do not lie the lyings of a woman.”

According to the principle of kelal ufrat uchlal, the general terms (“kol she’eir besaro / anyone of his own flesh” and “mishkevei ishah / the lyings of a woman”) only apply to items that are similar to the specific items on the list, viz. incestuous and adulterous relationships. However, the general terms extend the reach of the specific list so that it includes some additional prohibited relationships in the same general category. Leviticus 18:22 says that the male addressee should not lie these mishkevei ishah with a male. Therefore, just as a man is forbidden from having sex with his mother, his sister, or a married woman, he is also forbidden from having sex with his father, his brother, or a married man. Likewise, since all of these commandments apply to women as well, we can derive an equivalent category of forbidden relationships between two women.

The other verse to address is Leviticus 20:13:

וְאִישׁ אֲשֶׁר יִשְׁכַּב אֶת-זָכָר מִשְׁכְּבֵי אִשָּׁה תּוֹעֵבָה עָשׂוּ שְׁנֵיהֶם מוֹת יוּמָתוּ דְּמֵיהֶם בָּם
A man who lies a man the lyings of a woman, they have committed an abomination. Both of them shall be put to death; their blood is upon them.

Rabbi Ishmael’s 3rd principle is binyan av (constructing a prototype). In particular, we’ll use binyan av mikatuv echad, constructing a prototype from one verse. A classic example is Deuteronomy 22:11, which forbids clothing of sha’atnez, a combination of wool and linen. This verse constructs the prototype that sha’atnez refers specifically to wool and linen, so that Leviticus 19:19 (which also refers to sha’atnez, with no further details) is also understood to refer only to wool and linen, rather than any arbitrary mixture of fabrics.

Likewise, Leviticus 18:22 (by way of the kelal ufrat uchlal that we have explained above) constructs the prototype that mishkevei ishah refers specifically to the incestuous and adulterous relationships of the sort listed in Leviticus 18, so that Leviticus 20:13 can also be understood to refer only to these categories of same-sex relationships.

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Much of the gay debate hinges on whether or not homosexual acts are sinful. So often ignorant people cite Leviticus 18:22 for it's usual rendering of,

You shall not lie with man as with woman. It is abomination.

But that's not what it says. What it actually says is this,

“You shall not lie with a male [on] the bedding (or bed) of a woman (or wife), it is a despised thing (or despicable act).”

Modern translations took to using the more familar version for purely political reasons.

"The Bible doesn’t always tell us why something is “despised,” and hence we have to use reason. It is likely that the two men were having sex on the bed of the woman to despise her and rub it in her face that she wasn’t woman enough. Reuben slept with his father’s wife on his dad’s bed to despise his father Jacob. Also, according to the book “How the People Lived in the Bible [HPLB], on pg. 117, it states: “The women’s portion of the tent was separated by a curtain from the men’s half, and it was strictly off limits. A male stranger who entered a woman’s quarters could be punished with death. Sisera hid in Jael’s tent, but paid for it with his life (Judg. 4:18-21).”"
Leviticus 18 22

Modern translations for political reasons?
The King James Version was written in 1611
LEVITICUS 18 22 Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with womankind it is abomination.
Thou shalt not lie with mankinde, as with womankinde: it is abomination.
- King James Version (1611)

You are the one who is using the modern translation.

Thank you. New Testament Scriptures agree with the Old Testament Scriptures:

And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
Romans 1:27,28

 

[irosie91]

a note of interest----One does not find a whole lot of jews named Ishmael lately------Rabbi Ishmael ---interestingly enough---the famous one who was a Talmudist of the second century AD-----was afghani. Ishmael used to be considered an ok name by jews. Afghanistan used to harbor a Yeshiva of considerable prestige------back then. Thanks peach---the discussion emphasizes IMO----the big time issue of avoiding
ones "relatives" --------a real problem in ancient---crowded in the tent, life----without the benefit of artificial lighting. It seems to me that the "horror" of scewing that other person's screwee, or legally screwable person------was greater than same sex screwing. Same sex screwing does not seem to get a whole lot of attention in discussion as does WHO IN THE TENT, of opposite sex, ONE MUST NOT TOUCH

 

[Book of Jeremiah]

Same sex - sexual relations is an abomination to God, Rosie. The Scriptures are very clear about it. The Talmud is not Scripture and the Sages were not God's prophets. We need to stay with the Word of God when man's "opinions" veers off course and into dangerous error.

 

[irosie91]

Same sex - sexual relations is an abomination to God, Rosie. The Scriptures are very clear about it. The Talmud is not Scripture and the Sages were not God's prophets. We need to stay with the Word of God when man's "opinions" veers off course and into dangerous error.

It is not all that clearly stated or EMPHASIZED as are the horrors of screwing the wrong opposite sex person. I am not suggesting that it is considered legal. But I can assure you---
2000 years ago -----the Sanhedrin was not sentencing teen aged boys to death for playing with each other. The biblical proscriptions have been OVER INTERPRETED
in the course of history. -----Ie---above the intent of the
legal code

 

[Steven_R]

Same sex - sexual relations is an abomination to God, Rosie. The Scriptures are very clear about it. The Talmud is not Scripture and the Sages were not God's prophets. We need to stay with the Word of God when man's "opinions" veers off course and into dangerous error.

So is working on the Sabbath. That one is even in the TEN COMMANDMENTS and not buried in some passage somewhere in some book. I don't see anyone picketing gas stations and hospitals and fire stations and police departments on Sundays.

 

[peach174]

Same sex - sexual relations is an abomination to God, Rosie. The Scriptures are very clear about it. The Talmud is not Scripture and the Sages were not God's prophets. We need to stay with the Word of God when man's "opinions" veers off course and into dangerous error.

It is not all that clearly stated or EMPHASIZED as are the horrors of screwing the wrong opposite sex person. I am not suggesting that it is considered legal. But I can assure you---
2000 years ago -----the Sanhedrin was not sentencing teen aged boys to death for playing with each other. The biblical proscriptions have been OVER INTERPRETED
in the course of history. -----Ie---above the intent of the
legal code

Chances are pretty good that if they were stoning women to death for sleeping outside of their marriage, they would be stoning men and women laying with each other. which was considered worse than adultery.
Why?
Because they did not want another Sodom and Gomorrah.