Jimmy Carter is the worst president in US history

[Godboy]

Yeah, torture is so much of a lesser abuse that than clothing .

You need to learn more history if youre going to try and debate these things. What youre saying in this thread is absurd.

 

[Moonglow]

You need to learn more history if youre going to try and debate these things. What youre saying in this thread is absurd.

The Shah tortured people, what do you not understand?

 

[Godboy]

The Shah tortured people, what do you not understand?

So do the current shitstains, what do you not understand?

 

[LordBrownTrout]

The Shah tortured people, what do you not understand?

We put the shah in power. What do you not understand?

 

[Moonglow]

We put the shah in power. What do you not understand?

No kidding...we have put a lot of people into power since WWII, Carter didn't put the Shah into power.

 

[JoeB131]

Why you ask?

Because Carter was pivotal in toppling the Shah of Iran and delivering Persia to the the most dangerous terrorist nation on earth

His decision to abandon the Shah is the worst decision that any American president ever made

Wow, this is stupid, even for you.

What was Carter supposed to do to save the Shah at that point, exactly? Send in the Marines?

This is a picture of the Revolution against the Shah...

How were we going to stop that, exactly? The Shah's own military wasn't willing to fight for him at that point.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

No kidding...we have put a lot of people into power since WWII, Carter didn't put the Shah into power.

We have a caused a lot of problems since WW2. None of our military adventures since ww2 can be justified. Not one.

 

[luiza]

opinions vary

True for any belief.

But I thought your Piss Pot guy won this race by a more than a lap of the track .
Future generations will not believe his levels of stupidity and incompetence and marvel that at least 50 % of Sheeple could not see it when it was in front of them .

 

[JoeB131]

We have a caused a lot of problems since WW2.

Or we just inherited them.

The real problem is that the Cold War was cast as a contest between "democracy" and Communism. (Except the Communist countries all insisted they were democratic, as well.)

But the West was willing to throw in anyone who was willing to be anti-Communist, including fascists like Franco in Spain and Phibunsongkhram in Thailand. Didn't matter these guys helped the Axis, they were straight-up anti-Communist, and that was good enough for us.

 

[surada]

Not even close

The shah was not snatching women off the streets for wearing a mini skirt

He was an autocrat and did have his secret police

But he was also a modern man instead of a 14th Century throwback

Sooner or later Iran would have become s democratic country

The US trained and installed the Savak, modeling them after the Gestapo. We destroyed Iran's shot at democracy.

 

[Captain Caveman]

Why you ask?

Because Carter was pivotal in toppling the Shah of Iran and delivering Persia to the the most dangerous terrorist nation on earth

His decision to abandon the Shah is the worst decision that any American president ever made

U.S. Presidents: ranking by historians 2021 | Statista

In the 2021 C-SPAN Survey of Presidential Leadership, Abraham Lincoln was chosen as the country's top ranked president for the fourth time in a row.

www.statista.com

 

[Mac-7]

Mac-7
Mac1958

The U.S. is Repeating Cold War Mistakes with Iran

The notion of Iran as a prime mover—the initiator of regional evil—is just as misleading as it was with the USSR during the Cold War.

nationalinterest.org

I notice that your opinion piece was written by a retired foreign service officer who has the distinction of being the only person in our government who knew what was going on in the old soviet union previously and now in iran

According to him if he were in charge of US foreign policy everything would have been so much better

I’m not convinced that the Irans just want to be our friends

and if America and Israel would just stop mistreating them all would be well

 

[Mac-7]

The US trained and installed the Savak, modeling them after the Gestapo. We destroyed Iran's shot at democracy.

Yes, no secret police - not even our own beloved Deep State - are benign

They all have a habit of being mean to dissidents, as many MAGAs can attest to

But persians are a cut above arabs and afghans and practically all other muslims

Without the mullahs I believe the Iranians would have a democratic republic by now

 

[alang1216]

Why you ask?

Because Carter was pivotal in toppling the Shah of Iran and delivering Persia to the the most dangerous terrorist nation on earth

His decision to abandon the Shah is the worst decision that any American president ever made

Eisenhower made the terrible decision to topple a democratically-elected, Iranian government and install the Shah. That set the stage for the inevitable backlash of the Iranian people.

 

[Mac-7]

Wow, this is stupid, even for you.

What was Carter supposed to do to save the Shah at that point, exactly? Send in the Marines?

This is a picture of the Revolution against the Shah...

View attachment 971482

How were we going to stop that, exactly? The Shah's own military wasn't willing to fight for him at that point.

The shah was just one man

He depended on a cadre of officials to support him

Once cracks appear in that support in the form of a US president telling him to step down it was impossible for him to hold on

Your picture represents the end days of the monarchy, not the earlier time leading up to it

 

[JoeB131]

Yes, no secret police - not even our own beloved Deep State - are benign

They all have a habit of being mean to dissidents, as many MAGAs can attest to

But persians are a cut above arabs and afghans and practically all other muslims

Without the mullahs I believe the Iranians would have a democratic republic by now

But you see, you have it in reverse, guy.

The Shah systematically eradicated any of the possible political opponents that he had EXCEPT for the Clergy. He couldn't touch the Clergy without sparking a popular uprising.

So the Clergy found itself at the center of opposition to the Shah, with Khomeini being the symbol after his son was murdered by the Shah's agents.

 

[Mac-7]

Eisenhower made the terrible decision to topple a democratically-elected, Iranian government and install the Shah. That set the stage for the inevitable backlash of the Iranian people.

No

Iranian factions decided to install the Shah and the US supported the change

Moggedah was a marxist and we didnt want iran to fall into the soviet orbit

 

[surada]

I notice that your opinion piece was written by a retired foreign service officer who has the distinction of being the only person in our government who knew what was going on in the old soviet union previously and now in iran

According to him if he were in charge of US foreign policy everything would have been so much better

I’m not convinced that the Irans just want to be our friends

and if America and Israel would just stop mistreating them all would be well

The US has made many aggressive blunders with Iran since the 1950s. I doubt they want to be friends.

 

[JoeB131]

The shah was just one man

He depended on a cadre of officials to support him

Once cracks appear in that support in the form of a US president telling him to step down it was impossible for him to hold on

Your picture represents the end days of the monarchy, not the earlier time leading up to it

The problem is that cadre was all corrupt and incompetent.

They were unable to handle a whole series of crisis before the revolution, including the 1978 Tabas Earthquake that killed 20,000 people.

1978 Tabas earthquake - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

There was also the Shah's big party in 1971 where the Shah pissed away a Billion dollars (a lot of money back then) stroking his own ego trying to link his monarchy to Cyrus the Great.

2,500-year celebration of the Persian Empire - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

In short, the Shah was such a complete fuckup, nothing was going to save him. Blaming Jimmy Carter is kind of silly.

I do blame Carter for his ineffectual response to the Hostage Crisis. He should have given the Ayatollah 24 hours to release the hostages, or we start carpet bombing.

 

[Mac-7]

But you see, you have it in reverse, guy.

The Shah systematically eradicated any of the possible political opponents that he had EXCEPT for the Clergy. He couldn't touch the Clergy without sparking a popular uprising.

So the Clergy found itself at the center of opposition to the Shah, with Khomeini being the symbol after his son was murdered by the Shah's agents.

I have already agreed that the shah was an autocrat

Do you think the mullahs are better?