Jimmy Carter is the worst president in US history

[JoeB131]

No, jihad is in the DNA of the arabs and the coming Holy War is inevitable

Okay, guy, I guess we can list "DNA" as one of those things you don't understand.

 

[Redfish]

Carter wasn't terrible. He had lousy intelligence because all our people were close to the Shah.. They were inside the elite circle. They dismissed the student demonstrations and told Carter that the Pavlavi dynasty was good for a thousand years.

I knew some of those guys and they said they blew it.

yes, Carter had bad intelligence but because he was an inept leader, not because of some conspiracy as you alleged

 

[surada]

yes, Carter had bad intelligence but because he was an inept leader, not because of some conspiracy as you alleged

Conspiracy? Our intelligence was too close to the Shah. They told me so.

 

[alang1216]

Iranian factions decided to install the Shah and the US supported the change

There would have been no change if the US had not supported it.

Moggedah was a marxist and we didnt want iran to fall into the soviet orbit

Iran would have followed India's course and we are not enemies with India.

It's a moot discussion since the worst President, at least in my lifetime was Dubya. He got us into a decades long war in Afghanistan and gave birth to ISIS.

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Why you ask?

Because Carter was pivotal in toppling the Shah of Iran and delivering Persia to the the most dangerous terrorist nation on earth

His decision to abandon the Shah is the worst decision that any American president ever made

There are some that think the whole revolution was started by the CIA to get the Shah to stop being friendly with the USSR and it got out of hand and they could not stop it.

 

[Mac-7]

There are some that think the whole revolution was started by the CIA to get the Shah to stop being friendly with the USSR and it got out of hand and they could not stop it.

Whoever said that is dumb as dirt

Dont listen to them

 

[Harpy Eagle]

Whoever said that is dumb as dirt

Dont listen to them

Actually, there is a 50/50 chance they are correct. If the CIA did not start it, they let it go for the same reason. The Shah was getting very chummy with the USSR and the US was not going to let that happen.

 

[Mac-7]

There would have been no change if the US had not supported it.

Iran would have followed India's course and we are not enemies with India.

It's a moot discussion since the worst President, at least in my lifetime was Dubya. He got us into a decades long war in Afghanistan and gave birth to ISIS.

I voted for bush twice and he was not a good president

However looking back on it I dont think we have ever had a good Baby Boomer president, nor were the alternatives of mccain for republicans and AlGore or the Swift Boat guy any better than bush

The quality of our leadership is very poor

 

[Mac-7]

Actually, there is a 50/50 chance they are correct. If the CIA did not start it, they let it go for the same reason. The Shah was getting very chummy with the USSR and the US was not going to let that happen.

I put no credence in that at all

 

[Harpy Eagle]

I put no credence in that at all

I am sure you do not. We did it to get the Shah in power, what makes you think we would not do it again?

Then think about the time frame.

There was little we would not do back then to counter the USSR.

 

[alang1216]

I voted for bush twice and he was not a good president

However looking back on it I dont think we have ever had a good Baby Boomer president, nor were the alternatives of mccain for republicans and AlGore or the Swift Boat guy any better than bush

The quality of our leadership is very poor

We get the government we deserve. Unfortunately.

 

[surada]

Whoever said that is dumb as dirt

Dont listen to them

You certainly don't know anything about Iran. The US has never put a foot right with Iran since 1950.

 

[surada]

I am sure you do not. We did it to get the Shah in power, what makes you think we would not do it again?

Then think about the time frame.

There was little we would not do back then to counter the USSR.

We saw the soviets everywhere in those days. But basically the British wanted to continue cheating Iran.

 

[Mac-7]

I am sure you do not. We did it to get the Shah in power, what makes you think we would not do it again?

Then think about the time frame.

There was little we would not do back then to counter the USSR.

The shah was solidly in the US sphere of influence

But I concede that the State Dept could have misunderstood that

Certainly the retired “expert” whose work was posted here was clueless enough to think so

 

[Foxfyre]

What would you have Carter have done? Go to war with Iran?Send troops into Iran to defend the Shah? W. Did that in Iraq. American casualties would have been in 10s of thousands if Carter had done what you said he should have done. Carter was smarter than W. and kept us out of the region.

It is complicated. Iran was a stable country under the Shah and considered ally of the U.S.--we did have a fully staffed embassy in Tehran--but there were human rights abuses that many thought Carter should push the Shah to reform.

In retrospect Carter made three calculated mistakes:
1. Though our primary interest was cultivating the Saudis, Carter was the first President to visit Iran, albeit a short visit, and his infamous toast to the Shah was reported around the world: "Iran, because of the great leadership of the Shah, is an island of stability in one of the more troubled areas of the world. This is a great tribute to you, Your Majesty, and to your leadership and to the respect and the admiration and love which your people give to you. The transformation that has taken place in this nation is indeed remarkable under your leadership.*

2. This infuriated an exiled Khomeini--the Shah had had his son killed--and shortly after Khomeini and his revolutionary army took over the government and it was the Shah, Mohammad Reza Shah Pahlavi, who was forced to flee the country. Carter, already under criticism for that toast and for failure to push the Shah harder for civil rights reforms, decided the Shah was a lost cause and we did not intervene.

3. When the exiled Shah was diagnosed with cancer, Carter against the advice of the joint chiefs and despite strong warnings from his embassy staff and Zbigniew Brzezinski--we all failed that on spelling tests--his security advisor, brought the Shah to America for treatment. That was the last straw. Khomeni had his rebels overrun the U.S. embassy and take all the personnel captives.

Then began the hostage crisis that was prominent on the news for 444 days. A failed rescue attempt in which eight U.S. servicemen were killed and no hostages rescued coupled with a mismanaged economy of double digit inflation, double digit interest rates, gas and other shortages and a sky high misery index cost Carter re-election. Reagan would win all but five states and DC in 1980; won 49 states--almost got Minnesota too--in 1984.

(The hostages were released minutes after Reagan's inauguration January 20, 1981, a final slap at Carter.)

In retrospect I gently disagree that Carter was the worst President. Presidential decisions have been disastrous over the years. If FDR had not remained neutral and maintained diplomatic relations with Germany for so long, maybe six million Jews would not have been murdered by the Third Reich. But I think however incompetent Carter was as President, his heart was usually in the right place. i believe he loved America and Americans and wanted to do good. He just didn't know how.

Had Carter had Newt Gingrich and Tim Penny and their Tea Party reformers in Congress that Clinton was blessed with for six years, Carter would likely have had a far more successful presidency.

I didn't feel that way about Clinton who I thought was in it for Clinton and nobody else. And I certainly didn't/don't feel that way about Obama and Biden who piece by piece weakened and are destroying America as we have known it and don't care who gets hurt. All were far worse than Carter in my opinion.

 

[Mac-7]

You certainly don't know anything about Iran. The US has never put a foot right with Iran since 1950.

Oh I’m sorry

Are you the one filling Harpy with nonsense about iran and the soviets?

Dont take my analysis personally

You must have something to compensate for your goofy opinions about iran

 

[Harpy Eagle]

The shah was solidly in the US sphere of influence

But I concede that the State Dept could have misunderstood that

Certainly the retired “expert” whose work was posted here was clueless enough to think so

https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP79T00826A001000010064-4.pdf

 

[surada]

It is complicated. Iran was a stable country under the Shah and considered ally of the U.S.--we did have a fully staffed embassy in Tehran--but there were human rights abuses that many thought Carter should push the Shah to reform.

In retrospect Carter made three calculated mistakes:
1. Though our primary interest was cultivating the Saudis, Carter was the first President to visit Iran, albeit a short visit, and his infamous toast to the Shah was reported around the world: "Iran, because of the great leadership of the Shah, is an island of stability in one of the more troubled areas of the world. This is a great tribute to you, Your Majesty, and to your leadership and to the respect and the admiration and love which your people give to you. The transformation that has taken place in this nation is indeed remarkable under your leadership.*

2. This infuriated an exiled Khomeini--the Shah had had his son killed--and shortly after Khomeini and his revolutionary army took over the government and it was the Shah, Mohammad Reza Shah Pahlavi, who was forced to flee the country. Carter, already under criticism for that toast and for failure to push the Shah harder for humanitarian reforms, decided the Shah was a lost cause and we did not intervene.

3. When the Shah was diagnosed with cancer, Carter against the advice of the joint chiefs and despite strong warnings from his embassy staff and Zbigniew Brzezinski--we all failed that on spelling tests--his security advisor, brought the Shah to America for treatment. That was the last straw. Khomeni had his rebels overrun the U.S. embassy and take all the personnel captives.

Then began the captivity that was prominent on the news for 444 days. A failed rescue attempt in which eight U.S. servicemen were killed and no hostages rescued coupled with a mismanaged economy of double digit inflation, double digit interest rates, gas and other shortages and a high misery index cost Carter re-election. Reagan would win all but five states and DC in 1980; won 49 states--almost got Minnesota too--in 1984.

(The hostages were released minutes after Reagan's inauguration January 20, 1981, a final slap at Carter.)

In retrospect I gently disagree that Carter was the worst President. Presidential decisions have been disastrous over the years. If FDR had not remained neutral and maintained diplomatic relations with Germany for so long, maybe six million Jews would not have been murdered by the Third Reich. But I think however incompetent Carter was as President, his heart was usually in the right place. i believe he loved America and Americans and wanted to do good. He just didn't know how.

Had Carter had Newt Gingrich and Tim Penny and their Tea Party reformers in Congress that Clinton was blessed with for six years, Carter would likely have had a far more successful presidency.

I didn't feel that way about Clinton who I thought was in it for Clinton and nobody else. And I certain didn't/don't feel that way about Obama and Biden who piece by piece weakened and are destroying America as we have known it and don't care who gets hurt. All were far worse than Carter in my opinion.

Carter had bad intelligence. Our intelligence guys completely dismissed the student protests. Iran was a poor, unhappy place. I use to go there all the time for my mother's bridge tournaments. The British model never did anything for the Iranians.

 

[surada]

Oh I’m sorry

Are you the one filling Harpy with nonsense about iran and the soviets?

Dont take my analysis personally

You must have something to compensate for your goofy opinions about iran

I spent a lot of time in Iran.

 

[Mac-7]

But I think however incompetent Carter was as President, his heart was usually in the right place.

Agreed

In fact jimmy and rosalynn were never really popular with democrats because of his deep Christian faith