Jimmy Carter is the worst president in US history

[JoeB131]

No

Iranian factions decided to install the Shah and the US supported the change

Moggedah was a marxist and we didnt want iran to fall into the soviet orbit

Moggedah was elected by Parliament. The Shah was only in power because the Allies put him in office during WWII because his dad was too pro-Nazi.

 

[JoeB131]

I have already agreed that the shah was an autocrat

Do you think the mullahs are better?

Better for who? The average Iranian? Probably. The wealth is being more fairly shared. The biggest problem is, we are still punishing Iran for picking a form of government we don't like. Telling people they can't have something makes them want it even more.

 

[surada]

No

Iranian factions decided to install the Shah and the US supported the change

Moggedah was a marxist and we didnt want iran to fall into the soviet orbit

Mossadeeg wasn't a Marxist at all. The British were paying 6 cents on the dollar in oil revenue when every other country was paying 50 cents.

The Brits wanted to destroy the Mossadeeg so they painted him as a communist. Eisenhower made an awful mistake.

I was in Iran many times from 1953 through the late 1960s. The American oilmen in Arabia knew how badly the US screwed up trying to kill Mossadeeg and installing the Savak.

 

[Mac-7]

Moggedah was elected by Parliament. The Shah was only in power because the Allies put him in office during WWII because his dad was too pro-Nazi.

Ok, I get it

Mogge nationalized the oil and that harmed western financial interests

He was also s communist

If not for all that the US & UK might not have turned to the shah

But for all his faults the shah was creating a modern country friendly to the west

Which was on our best interests as well as the uranian people

 

[Mac-7]

Better for who? The average Iranian? Probably. The wealth is being more fairly shared. The biggest problem is, we are still punishing Iran for picking a form of government we don't like. Telling people they can't have something makes them want it even more.

I dont dont think the mullahs are better

They are 14th Century throwbacks dedicated to jihad

 

[JoeB131]

Ok, I get it

Mogge nationalized the oil and that harmed western financial interests

He was also s communist

If not for all that the US & UK might not have turned to the shah

But for all his faults the shah was creating a modern country friendly to the west

Which was on our best interests as well as the uranian people

Hey, guy, when someone is putting the interest of "the West" above his own people, that man is a QUISLING!!!!

The Iranians had every reason to want to overthrow him at that point.

 

[surada]

Ok, I get it

Mogge nationalized the oil and that harmed western financial interests

He was also s communist

If not for all that the US & UK might not have turned to the shah

But for all his faults the shah was creating a modern country friendly to the west

Which was on our best interests as well as the uranian people

Nationalization of the Iranian oil industry - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

On March 15, 1951, legislation to nationalize the oil industry was passed by the Majlis with a majority of votes.

 

[JoeB131]

I dont dont think the mullahs are better

They are 14th Century throwbacks dedicated to jihad

Um, yeah, so? Frankly, given what the Christian Right wants to do in this country, I thought you'd have more sympathy.

Maybe if we stopped fucking with them, they'd be less inclined to "jihad". (Jihad, by the way, doesn't mean "Holy War", it means, "Struggle").

 

[Mac-7]

Mossadeeg wasn't a Marxist at all. The British were paying 6 cents on the dollar in oil revenue when every other country was paying 50 cents.

The Brits wanted to destroy the Mossadeeg so they painted him as a communist. Eisenhower made an awful mistake.

I was in Iran many times from 1953 through the late 1960s. The American oilmen in Arabia knew how badly the US screwed up trying to kill Mossadeeg and installing the Savak.

You could be right about Mossi

If he hadnt been so radical - and frankly a little stupid for opposing the British oil interests so abruptly - things could have been different

 

[Mac-7]

Hey, guy, when someone is putting the interest of "the West" above his own people, that man is a QUISLING!!!!

The Iranians had every reason to want to overthrow him at that point.

See post #109

Mossi was radical but not very smart

The colonial period was coming to an end and other countries were renegotiating oil deals with the west without getting themselves overthrown

Mosse was his own worst enemy

 

[Mac-7]

Maybe if we stopped fucking with them, they'd be less inclined to "jihad". (Jihad, by the way, doesn't mean "Holy War", it means, "Struggle").

No, jihad is in the DNA of the arabs and the coming Holy War is inevitable

 

[surada]

You could be right about Mossi

If he hadnt been so radical - and frankly a little stupid for opposing the British oil interests so abruptly - things could have been different

Iran nationalized oil 1951, Norway in 1972... You see the difference?

There was nothing abrupt about it.

Iran was very poor except for the Shah's immediate circle.

He never invested in education, healthcare or infrastructure.

After Mossadeeg escaped the assassination attempts and fled the country the British increased revenue share to 13%.

 

[surada]

No, jihad is in the DNA of the arabs and the coming Holy War is inevitable

You've never been anywhere in the Arab world.

 

[Redfish]

What would you have Carter have done? Go to war with Iran?Send troops into Iran to defend the Shah? W. Did that in Iraq. American casualties would have been in 10s of thousands if Carter had done what you said he should have done. Carter was smarter than W. and kept us out of the region.

totally wrong, then he sent a rescue mission to get our hostages and it failed with the deaths of many american soldiers and Iran kept the hostages. Carter was terrible but Biden has proven to be even worse.

 

[Redfish]

Iran nationalized oil 1951, Norway in 1972... You see the difference?

There was nothing abrupt about it.

Iran was very poor except for the Shah's immediate circle.

He never invested in education, healthcare or infrastructure.

After Mossadeeg escaped the assassination attempts and fled the country the British increased revenue share to 13%.

The Shah was bringing Iran into the 20th century and making his country rich and prosperous, then the religious fanatics took over and returned it to the 7th century, and somehow you think that was a good thing??????????????????

 

[Mac-7]

Iran nationalized oil 1951, Norway in 1972... You see the difference?

There was nothing abrupt about it.

Iran was very poor except for the Shah's immediate circle.

He never invested in education, healthcare or infrastructure.

After Mossadeeg escaped the assassination attempts and fled the country the British increased revenue share to 13%.

I have not studied Norway so I’ll take your word for that

But the shah did invest in education and allowed thousands of iranian students to study abroad, many in the US and UK

 

[Mac-7]

You've never been anywhere in the Arab world.

No, but I have been to Detroit

 

[Mac-7]

I have not studied Norway so I’ll take your word for that

But the shah did invest in education and allowed thousands of iranian students to study abroad, many in the US and UK

I can still remember the bearded knuckleheads running around shouting “Praise be to the Allah!”

 

[surada]

totally wrong, then he sent a rescue mission to get our hostages and it failed with the deaths of many american soldiers and Iran kept the hostages. Carter was terrible but Biden has proven to be even worse.

Carter wasn't terrible. He had lousy intelligence because all our people were close to the Shah.. They were inside the elite circle. They dismissed the student demonstrations and told Carter that the Pavlavi dynasty was good for a thousand years.

I knew some of those guys and they said they blew it.

 

[surada]

I can still remember the bearded knuckleheads running around shouting “Praise be to the Allah!”

Only from the elite circle...it wasn't thousands. You've never set foot in Iran.