DiamondDave
Army Vet
☭proletarian☭;1774463 said:1) Yes there is.. else control to force participation and redistribution cannot happen....
Like any other form of democracy (truly as such), there is no ruling class to rule over any other class. There is only the People, who rule themselves.
The salvation army doesn't exist? Noone adopts little african kids when they see the ads on tv? Noone helps a friend, their child, or anyone else? Ever?producers do not just willingly continue to support non-producers...
define: large scale
They have many times in the past. Public libraries and many other things stand as evidence of the fact.
Good thing socialism os founded on Individualist ideals, then. Individualism taken to the extreme leads to anarchy, since each person would be in it only for themselves. The collectivist policies of social democracy/socialism are modeld after individualist concerns.
They predate the term, not the concept. People traded to increase their ownership of things they valued before the word 'capitalism' existed, too- hell, before any word in use today existed.
actually, that's what you said when you said that only a minority of people can make it work and large-scale attemots would fail because most people are too corrupt, dishonest, greedy, and ignorant5) Your silly argument that only 'educated' people can understand or make socialism 'work'
theories don't 'work or don't work' and noone in this thread has advocated Marxism.is the true background thinking of the communist/socialist supporters... that their false sense of intellectual superiority makes them believe that Marx's theories can actually work...
1) Pipe dream... for "the people" will not continue to have the fruits of their labor taken from them to be given to those who do not produce for themselves.... an inherent flaw with socio/communist supporters such as yourself is the failure to realize that people will not put forced societal support over family support... the socialist system must have a means of control, or frankly it cannot and will not ever happen
2) Producers will not allow the leeches to continually suck off without return.... charity is not forced and is completely voluntary by all who participate.. socialism, by definition, is not a voluntary system..
3) Large scale.. over say 1K people... it has failed in EVERY attempt at a country level and is not overly successful in anything over the size of a goddamn hippee commune
4) The masses will not continue to support leeches without being forced to do so... people tend to get quite mad when their rewards from their own work are stripped from them to support someone who does not work
5) Socialism was not, is not, and cannot be founded on the ideals of individual freedoms... PERIOD... no matter what your little professors try and feed you full of... by the very nature of the system, the collective takes precedence over the individual freedom, individual incentive, individual rewards, etc....
6) I said nothing of the sort.. having it work in the small scale does not lead to the conclusion that those in that group are superior in effort or intellect... it just means they share the same faulty belief of collectivism
7) You have advocated Marxist/Socialist/Communist theories and ideals as some superior way... which, unless you are having a society filled with prisoners, slaves, and robots, simply cannot happen without absolute control by a ruling elite/class ensuring the rest of the masses fall in line with the redistribution and state ownership
Maybe you should speak to some of the people who fled the areas that were destroyed by what the ideas of socialism/communism bring about