Looks Like Most Americans Have No Problem With NSA/Phone Record Program

[jillian]

Yes but Clinton has already set precedent to listen to phone conversations apparently. I didnt realize it till this story came out that Clinton had already went a step further with the NSA, which proves my point. You dont hand over your freedoms to the government because they will take the ones your giving and any other ones they want as well.

I've seen that repeated a lot. But Clinton complied with FISA. Huge difference.

 

[jillian]

Newsweek Web Exclusive
By David Jefferson
Updated: 1:11 p.m. ET May 14, 2006
May 13, 2006 - Has the Bush administration gone too far in expanding the powers of the President to fight terrorism? Yes, say a majority of Americans, following this week’s revelation that the National Security Agency has been secretly collecting the phone records of U.S. citizens since the September 11 terrorist attacks. According to the latest NEWSWEEK poll, 53 percent of Americans think the NSA’s surveillance program “goes too far in invading people’s privacy,” while 41 percent see it as a necessary tool to combat terrorism.

President Bush tried to reassure the public this week that its privacy is “fiercely protected,” and that “we’re not mining or trolling through the personal lives of innocent Americans.” Nonetheless, Americans think the White House has overstepped its bounds: 57 percent said that in light of the NSA data-mining news and other executive actions, the Bush-Cheney Administration has “gone too far in expanding presidential power.” That compares to 38 percent who think the Administration’s actions are appropriate.

[MORE]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12771821/site/newsweek/

 

[CrimsonWhite]

Apparently you and I have a problem then. We find nothing wrong with this because we WANT our citizens protected from terrorists and are willing to give up a small section of our rights for that protection.

"Those willing to give up a little liberty for a little security deserve neither security nor liberty."

Benjamin Franklin

Guess you would call Ben Franklin a "damn librull" for saying that. The program is illegal. If it is illegal, it is wrong. Wrong is wrong, no matter what.

 

[dilloduck]

"Those willing to give up a little liberty for a little security deserve neither security nor liberty."

Benjamin Franklin

Guess you would call Ben Franklin a "damn librull" for saying that. The program is illegal. If it is illegal, it is wrong. Wrong is wrong, no matter what.

I'm so tired of this quote-----it's very easy to interpret peoples desire for privacy as security and hunting terrorists as defense of liberty.
If you are willing to give up the defense of our security and liberty for your freedom to stay private,you deserve neither.

 

[CrimsonWhite]

I'm so tired of this quote-----it's very easy to interpret peoples desire for privacy as security and hunting terrorists as defense of liberty.
If you are willing to give up the defense of our security and liberty for your freedom to stay private,you deserve neither.

The reason you are tired of the quote is because you know Frankilin was right. My desire is not to stay "private." My desire is to nip this in the bud. If the federal government is allowed to spy on its own citizens, and what they are doing is spying, then we are no better than the despotic regimes that we are against around the world. What does it say to the people of Iraq, that desperately want to be free, that you can be free at the cost of giving up the liberty of privacy. You can be free and prosper as along as you don't mind the government listening in on your phone conversations. This is the stuff of communists, despots, and dictators.

 

[GotZoom]

"Those willing to give up a little liberty for a little security deserve neither security nor liberty."

Benjamin Franklin

Guess you would call Ben Franklin a "damn librull" for saying that. The program is illegal. If it is illegal, it is wrong. Wrong is wrong, no matter what.

I have read quite a few things lately that says what they are doing is not illegal.

Getting lists of telephone numbers. Not monitoring phone calls as Clinton did.

Simply getting a list of phone numbers.

There are many private companies out there who have far more information about you than the phone numbers you have dialed or those who have dialed your number.

You disagree with me? That is fine. Whoopee.

 

[jillian]

I have read quite a few things lately that says what they are doing is not illegal.

Getting lists of telephone numbers. Not monitoring phone calls as Clinton did.

Simply getting a list of phone numbers.

There are many private companies out there who have far more information about you than the phone numbers you have dialed or those who have dialed your number.

You disagree with me? That is fine. Whoopee.

Funny, Clinton complied with the FISA laws. Did Bush? The answer is no. Me? I'm looking forward to being a beneficiary of the class action suit against Verizon. I could use a nice all-expenses paid vacation.

 

[Gunny]

The reason you are tired of the quote is because you know Frankilin was right. My desire is not to stay "private." My desire is to nip this in the bud. If the federal government is allowed to spy on its own citizens, and what they are doing is spying, then we are no better than the despotic regimes that we are against around the world. What does it say to the people of Iraq, that desperately want to be free, that you can be free at the cost of giving up the liberty of privacy. You can be free and prosper as along as you don't mind the government listening in on your phone conversations. This is the stuff of communists, despots, and dictators.

I don't think so, Tim.

Several terrorist organizations have declared war against the US and threatened to attack us again. National security -- the needs of the many -- outweigh the individual inconvenience -- the desires of the few.

Seems to me you have nothing to worry about as long as you don't have OBL on speed dial.

Besides, WHAT makes you think the government hasn't ALWAYS listened to your phone conversations? Because they promise they haven't?

 

[Gunny]

Funny, Clinton complied with the FISA laws. Did Bush? The answer is no. Me? I'm looking forward to being a beneficiary of the class action suit against Verizon. I could use a nice all-expenses paid vacation.

Typical librull. When and wherever there's a chance, sue for all it's worth.

 

[jillian]

Typical librull. When and wherever there's a chance, sue for all it's worth.

So everyone who thinks that the president isn't above the law is a librull? :duh3:

I'm half kidding about the class action suit. But how else do you make corporations abide by the law? Write letters? Gee...that'll show 'em.

 

[GotZoom]

Funny, Clinton complied with the FISA laws. Did Bush? The answer is no. Me? I'm looking forward to being a beneficiary of the class action suit against Verizon. I could use a nice all-expenses paid vacation.

I didn't say anything in my past about what Clinton did being illegal.

My point was that Clinton listened to actual phone calls. All the NSA is doing is compiling lists of phone numbers.

Big difference.

 

[Gunny]

So everyone who thinks that the president isn't above the law is a librull? :duh3:

No. But YOU are. And you doing what librulls do best .... lying. If what Bush has authorized the NSA to do is illegal, then why hasn't anyone stopped him? I see no impeachment proceedings, nor any courts taking action. Well, except the bullshit aforementioned class action suit that is more about scamming money than anyone gives a damn about who listens to their phone calls.

I'm half kidding about the class action suit. But how else do you make corporations abide by the law? Write letters? Gee...that'll show 'em.

Criminal courts punish corporations for violating the law. Civil courts are for people with real or imagined damages to squeeze unearned money out of said corporations.

I have no problem with civil courts. I DO have a problem with people who abuse them to scam a few bucks.

 

[GotZoom]

Criminal courts punish corporations for violating the law. Civil courts are for people with real or imagined damages to squeeze unearned money out of said corporations.

I have no problem with civil courts. I DO have a problem with people who abuse them to scam a few bucks.

Let her have her lawsuit Gunny.

She'll get a check for $ 3.71 while the attorney firm gets their third of a 100 million dollars.

And this is a good thing Jillian?

 

[jillian]

I didn't say anything in my past about what Clinton did being illegal.

My point was that Clinton listened to actual phone calls. All the NSA is doing is compiling lists of phone numbers.

Big difference.

You do realize the "big difference" is that you can't do WARRANTLESS searches...and Clinton had warrants. I have no problem with warrants being issued by the FISA Court for suspected terrorists.

This is about OVERSIGHT...secrecy and the potential for abuse.

Ask yourself, if this is REALLY about our security, why no FISA warrants?

 

[Gunny]

Let her have her lawsuit Gunny.

She'll get a check for $ 3.71 while the attorney firm gets their third of a 100 million dollars.

And this is a good thing Jillian?

And it'll cost her $10, in gas to deposit it. Justice if ever there was.

 

[Annie]

And it'll cost her $10, in gas to deposit it. Justice if ever there was.

Ummm, not to mention what will happen to the phone bill in the future.

 

[Gunny]

Ummm, not to mention what will happen to the phone bill in the future.

Ssshhh ..... you'll spoil it for her. That will be in NEXT year's bullshit to blame on Bush.

 

[GotZoom]

Ummm, not to mention what will happen to the phone bill in the future.

"By endorsing this check, you authorize Librull Long Distance Company to be your Long Distance carrier. By authorizing the change in your Long Distance carrier, you also agree to all fees, terms and conditions."

 

[jillian]

And it'll cost her $10, in gas to deposit it. Justice if ever there was.

lol... nah! I can walk to the bank.

But on that subject, do you know I got 3 gallons of gas for $10 yesterday. Made my stomach turn.

 

[Mariner]

Mackeson's was Scottish (where I grew up). It's pronounced with the accent on the E: mack-E'-son's. A few years ago it was bought out by a larger conglomerate, and is now made in Ohio, I think. But it still tastes great : ) If you want to get the full flavor, don't chill it all the way. For me, it brings back happy memories of staying up all night doing monstrous physics calculations with my friend Karyn, before I sold out and went to medical school.

As for wiretapping--I fail to see how adding true congressional oversight would weaken Bush's NSA program. The real issue here is not about the gov't looking at our phone records. It's about how much power this president thinks a president ought to have, free of the checks and balances on which our consitution is based.

Bush has adroitly used the fear of terrorism to try to stretch the chief executive's powers in many directions that I'm uncomfortable with (creating the concept of "enemy combatants," renditions, violating the Geneva conventions, approving torture, etc.). I'd prefer that if we were to create such policies we do it via a legislative process, not by executive fiat. And I'm not surprised that many libertarian Republicans agree.

Mariner.