Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature currently requires accessing the site using the built-in Safari browser.
No need to apologize. Long winded is refreshing. Once. Not spammed.First, sorry for the long winded read:
He was testifying. Relaying his personal experience and some conclusions drawn therefrom. Not apologizing.A few points on Dan Barker's attempt to apologize for his own conversion to Atheism.
What do you feel qualifies you to smear his work product and call him names? Have you been a Christian preacher for more than 19 years?
- He poorly discusses the science of proven or unproven god; god particle, etc.,
- Faith - I am not sure I have ever heard any reliable Christian apologists say that "Faith" is evidence.
Those coming before Christians obviously managed without bibles and Jesuses as well. Have you asked yourself about that?All of the below points, I will summarize with one conclusion.
Summary of the previous points:
- Unreliability of OT Stories
- Unreliability of NT Stories: Resurrection
- Oral Tradition was the primary method of communicating stories, minor variances in such stories do not necessarily remove the truths in those stories.
- Assignment of diety of characteristics; Omniscience, all powerful, etc.,
- Difference of beliefs between believers
- Regardless of the religion, this is normative of all religions and doesn't negate that god does or does not exist.
- Problem of evil: Achilles heal of evil.
- This is a huge conversation with many volumes written on the topic.
- I will say this - Jesus never promised perfection in the world.
Christians for the last Millenia, have staked and built theology, orthodoxy, traditions, and general beliefs from the Bible. And in doing so have also applied characteristics to the Bible that God, nor Jesus ever attributed or applicable to the Bible. That's because the Bible was and is never needed to be a Christian or to believe in God.
The ONLY belief ever needed to be a Christian and to be "saved", was to believe in Jesus Christ himself. Not one time, in Jesus' ministry did he ever state that Christians, will at some future state, have a "Word of God" that will dictate what it truly means to be his disciple, and will answer all the questions of the universe, theology, sociology, economics, etc.,
A belief in Jesus, based on the gospel accounts, is all we need. Think about that. The first century christians never had a Bible. How did they survive without it? How did they know what to believe? And think about the first century gentile Christians who didn't even have the Pentateuch/Torah.
Most of the points that Dan Barker makes in the Youtube clip are moot. They are only an argument because Christians have taken the Bible, stamped it as divinely inspired and perfect. Christians have maid claims about the Bible that the bible doesn't even say about itself.
If faith is based alone in Jesus, one doesn't have to worry about the OT stories or variances in NT stories. I don't have to apologize for Characteristics applied to God that Jesus never made a point of belief. Evil is explained because Jesus never said it would go away in this world. I don't have to worry about free will, or TULIP, or which denomination is right or wrong. I don't care if Adam and Eve were real, or if Noah really built the ark. One doesn't have to worry about science proving or disproving God.
If the very first Christians didn't have a Bible, why do I need one today? We should all ask ourselves that question.
Yes, actually. Thanks for providing nothing else to the convo.Those coming before Christians obviously managed without bibles and Jesuses as well. Have you asked yourself about that?
There is a study and area of religions called apologetics. Where one defends their belief. That is what is meant.He was testifying. Relaying his personal experience and some conclusions drawn therefrom. Not apologizing.
How did I smear anything? He provided his thoughts and opinions. Where did I call him a name? My past, having been in religion, is decently versed, but with not "official" certification, BS, Masters or Doctorates.What do you feel qualifies you to smear his work product and call him names? Have you been a Christian preacher for more than 19 years?
Everyone is entitled to their dreams.I think it's the opposite. He doesn't want us to feel guilty. Being perfect does not mean doing perfect things. It means to exist perfectly. Existing perfectly does not mean being racked with guilt. It means - among other things - to take from our experiences what is useful for moving forward and letting God carry the load for the rest.
I think it's the opposite.This stuff is way more complicated and deeper than you can imagine.
and the answer is...That sentence fragment actually contains the making of a great and fair question.
I'm with you there,I think you guys would be much happier if you set aside your pride/biases/egos and started looking at everything in your lives fairly and objectively and without regard for any outcome. I think you'd find out just how amazing existence really is.
and you lost me. I took exactly the "fairly and objectively and without regard for any outcome" approach when I was 12 but it lead me in exactly the opposite direction.And then if you took that same approach regarding the existence of God, absent the use of any religious texts, you would have a more complete understanding of God which would be useful for your journey through life. Or don't. I don't really care. It only affects you.
I've walked both paths. You haven't.Everyone is entitled to their dreams.
I think it's the opposite.
You have to figure out the question first.and the answer is...
You were 12.I'm with you there,
and you lost me. I took exactly the "fairly and objectively and without regard for any outcome" approach when I was 12 but it lead me in exactly the opposite direction.
I do stay on the path I know, I hate deadends and getting lost.I've walked both paths. You haven't.
That's great. I hope you have lots of success on your journey.I do stay on the path I know, I hate deadends and getting lost.
Yep. Impressive to be so right and so young.You were 12.
Thanks. It's been great so far and I wish you the same.That's great. I hope you have lots of success on your journey.
That's one way to look at it. Not sure that's an objective way of looking at it.Yep. Impressive to be so right and so young.
Existence is great.Thanks. It's been great so far and I wish you the same.
Those coming before Christians obviously managed without bibles and Jesuses as well. Have you asked yourself about that?
You're still welcome, but making little to no sense.Yes, actually. Thanks for providing nothing else to the convo.
That may be what you meant, but no, "apologetics" is not merely "Where one defends their belief." It's where Christians defend their particular religious disciplines and doctrines. Dan Barker defends neither. He's an ex-Christian (an atheist) doing quite the opposite. And before you go there, Atheism is neither religious nor belief. It's lack of belief by definition.There is a study and area of religions called apologetics. Where one defends their belief. That is what is meant.
Again,If Christians focused their belief on the core words of Christ, there is little to debate other than the actual life of Christ. The reason for evil, charactheristics of God, Sola Scriptura, differeing views within Christianity, are meaningless. The only thing that Christians have to worry about is this: Is Jesus who he says he is? Period. Then we discuss the evidence of the Gospels.
You've conspicuously avoided addressing this point. Dan Barker addressed "Is Jesus who he says he is?" Were you actually listening?Those coming before Christians obviously managed without bibles and Jesuses as well.
Fair questions. Here ya go:How did I smear anything? He provided his thoughts and opinions. Where did I call him a name?
Provide at least one example of someone doing better for contrast or go fish.He poorly discusses the science of proven or unproven god; god particle, etc.,
Quote him saying otherwise or go fish.Unreliability of NT Stories: Resurrection
- Oral Tradition was the primary method of communicating stories, minor variances in such stories do not necessarily remove the truths in those stories.
Same and the fact that it's normative of all religions, not simply atheism, is the entire point.Difference of beliefs between believers
- Regardless of the religion, this is normative of all religions and doesn't negate that god does or does not exist.
Unless one’s existence is being in a unwanted pregnancy, and you live in Alabama, and you are not a white Christian nationalist, and you can’t afford to leave the state for an abortion.Existence is great.
All existence is great. Better to have existed than to have never existed.Unless one’s existence is being in a unwanted pregnancy, and you live in Alabama, and you are not a white Christian nationalist, and you can’t afford to leave the state for an abortion.
They have you to thank Saint Ding.
That’s true to the extent that white Christian nationalists don’t have control over your lives through the government. But when they do, they have no goddamn reason to make your existence miserable when it does not have to be. Please hear the words of Jesus Christ Saint Ding.All existence is great. Better to have existed than to have never existed.
