Minnesota: Rape is not rape if you have been drinking of your own free will.

[Fort Fun Indiana]

What the OP is missing here is the difference between subjective and objective.
I tend to agree, as many states do, that if a woman voluntarily gets intoxicated to a point where consent is impossible to provide or deny... that declaring rape is also no longer possible.

So when you get too drunk to say "no" or understand what is happening, it is fine for someone -- anyone -- to stick his penis in your butthole.

You sure you wanna run with that?

What you describe is rape. Of course. No one is saying it isn't.
But you have to prove a crime in order to charge someone with it. You can't just go with the "she said" over the "he said" because you want to.
Again, if a woman VOLUNTARILY goes with a man to his home, or wherever to be alone with him. Gets so drunk she cannot remember what happened. She gets to claim rape if she can't remember whether she gave consent or not? You want to go with that?
You understand that in this case, the woman states "I woke up in the morning and my panties were down". She doesn't remember what happened. Who is to say wasn't cooperative because she was stone cold drunk, then gets sobered up and wants to press charges because she doesn't think she gave consent.
Rape is a very serious crime that carries a very serious penalty. Under the subjective pretense of the OP - basically any woman who wakes up with regrets - should be able to charge the man with rape. How would you prove he didn't?
That is why the law is written that way. You can't put someone in prison for a crime when the victim isn't sure it happened, just thinks it did.

Gotcha. So if that happened to you, you wouldn't look for legal recourse. You would, essentially, legally, blame yourself for the ass rape.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

Maybe at first you should learn to control the level of your alcohol consumption.

I see. So if you got too drunk to say no or understand what was happening (or to remember what happened), and someone stuck his penis in your butthole, you would blame yourself. Got it.

It's no one else's fault. Yours and yours alone. You aren't suggesting that men refuse to take Advantage of an out of control woman, are you. How quaint. How very old fashioned. Gentlemen are dead.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

What the OP is missing here is the difference between subjective and objective.
I tend to agree, as many states do, that if a woman voluntarily gets intoxicated to a point where consent is impossible to provide or deny... that declaring rape is also no longer possible.

So when you get too drunk to say "no" or understand what is happening, it is fine for someone -- anyone -- to stick his penis in your butthole.

You sure you wanna run with that?

What you describe is rape. Of course. No one is saying it isn't.
But you have to prove a crime in order to charge someone with it. You can't just go with the "she said" over the "he said" because you want to.
Again, if a woman VOLUNTARILY goes with a man to his home, or wherever to be alone with him. Gets so drunk she cannot remember what happened. She gets to claim rape if she can't remember whether she gave consent or not? You want to go with that?
You understand that in this case, the woman states "I woke up in the morning and my panties were down". She doesn't remember what happened. Who is to say wasn't cooperative because she was stone cold drunk, then gets sobered up and wants to press charges because she doesn't think she gave consent.
Rape is a very serious crime that carries a very serious penalty. Under the subjective pretense of the OP - basically any woman who wakes up with regrets - should be able to charge the man with rape. How would you prove he didn't?
That is why the law is written that way. You can't put someone in prison for a crime when the victim isn't sure it happened, just thinks it did.

Gotcha. So if that happened to you, you wouldn't look for legal recourse. You would, essentially, legally, blame yourself for the ass rape.

Noted... Fort fun is not interested in intelligent discussion, but wants to use fallacious arguments to form a conclusion that is not relative to the case.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

So we now see there are two men haters here.
Two that have no problem with any woman who gets drunk, decides she wants to say she was raped - the man is automatically guilty... prison.

Yeah....

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Not even close to true. The girl was way beyond a BAC of 0.08%

We are talking about general principles here. 0.08% is legally intoxicated. Please pay better attention, if you plan to comment again. Thanks.

I noticed you dodged the question. Of all people in this thread, i knew you would be the one to dodge. Or maybe you will just let anyone stick their penis in your butthole and don't mind. Hey..whatever floats your boat.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Fort fun is not interested in intelligent discussion, but wants to use fallacious arguments to form a conclusion that is not relative to the case

False. I am speaking directly to the general principles. So far, what we have is that, should you become legally intoxicated, you think you should have no legal recourse, if a stranger sticks his penis in your butthole without your explicit consent.

I do see your points. However, i have a little sneaking suspicion that, if it were any of you that were ass raped, it might , let's just say, alter your arguments a little bit.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

So we now see there are two men haters here.
Two that have no problem with any woman who gets drunk, decides she wants to say she was raped - the man is automatically guilty... prison.

Yeah....

i did not argue that. Non sequiturs are for the weak and/or lazy minded.

 

[j-mac]

What the OP is missing here is the difference between subjective and objective.
I tend to agree, as many states do, that if a woman voluntarily gets intoxicated to a point where consent is impossible to provide or deny... that declaring rape is also no longer possible.

So when you get too drunk to say "no" or understand what is happening, it is fine for someone -- anyone -- to stick his penis in your butthole.

You sure you wanna run with that?

What you describe is rape. Of course. No one is saying it isn't.
But you have to prove a crime in order to charge someone with it. You can't just go with the "she said" over the "he said" because you want to.
Again, if a woman VOLUNTARILY goes with a man to his home, or wherever to be alone with him. Gets so drunk she cannot remember what happened. She gets to claim rape if she can't remember whether she gave consent or not? You want to go with that?
You understand that in this case, the woman states "I woke up in the morning and my panties were down". She doesn't remember what happened. Who is to say wasn't cooperative because she was stone cold drunk, then gets sobered up and wants to press charges because she doesn't think she gave consent.
Rape is a very serious crime that carries a very serious penalty. Under the subjective pretense of the OP - basically any woman who wakes up with regrets - should be able to charge the man with rape. How would you prove he didn't?
That is why the law is written that way. You can't put someone in prison for a crime when the victim isn't sure it happened, just thinks it did.

Ever heard of an exam, and rape kit?

 

[Crepitus]

some women mean yes when they say no.

Who told you that lie?

Anyone that has had much experience knows that some women when you make your move will say no,no, no. Asian women particuarly I have noticed....but when you get them hot the no's slow down....then stop and then its fuck me baby. hehheh

Do women sometimes say no when they mean yes? The prevalence and correlates of women's token resistance to sex - PubMed

We investigated whether women ever engage in token resistance to sex--saying no but meaning yes--and, if they do, what their reasons are for doing so. A questionnaire administered to 610 undergraduate women asked whether they had ever engaged in token resistance and, if so, asked them to rate...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

What are you, 12?

 

[TheGreenHornet]

some women mean yes when they say no.

Who told you that lie?

Anyone that has had much experience knows that some women when you make your move will say no,no, no. Asian women particuarly I have noticed....but when you get them hot the no's slow down....then stop and then its fuck me baby. hehheh

Do women sometimes say no when they mean yes? The prevalence and correlates of women's token resistance to sex - PubMed

We investigated whether women ever engage in token resistance to sex--saying no but meaning yes--and, if they do, what their reasons are for doing so. A questionnaire administered to 610 undergraduate women asked whether they had ever engaged in token resistance and, if so, asked them to rate...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

What are you, 12?

When you were a young stud and you made your move to get some pussy and the girl puts up a little resistance did you just call it a night?

 

[JoeMoma]

If two drunk people have sex, is it possible that they both raped each other because both were too drunk to consent?

 

[ESay]

Maybe at first you should learn to control the level of your alcohol consumption.

I see. So if you got too drunk to say no or understand what was happening (or to remember what happened), and someone stuck his penis in your butthole, you would blame yourself. Got it.

Well, I have to admit that in this case the law will protect that dude. Sometimes, some laws work not in our favor.

Where was her friend at the time of all that? Has that question come to your mind?

 

[Grumblenuts]

If two drunk people have sex, is it possible that they both raped each other because both were too drunk to consent?

Of course. They could also be too underage or mentally ill. They could even produce babies with mental problems that neither wants or can manage, putting more burden upon govt and taxpayers. They could also just crash into each other in the middle of the freeway, making a different sort of huge mess for others to largely pay for and clean up. Life is messy. Adults deal with that every day.

 

[Whodatsaywhodat.]

What is wrong in Minnesota? So many really bad stories out of Minnesota. George Floyd, Justine Damond, Philandro Castilo and now we have this. Minnesota law states that it's not rape if the person has voluntarily been drinking on their own. What kind of warped people pass such a law?

A Minnesota man can’t be charged with rape, because the woman chose to drink beforehand, court rules

Run by Democrats ! What did you expect?

 

[Orangecat]

Francios Momolu Khalil? A rapist?

 

[emilynghiem]

What is wrong in Minnesota? So many really bad stories out of Minnesota. George Floyd, Justine Damond, Philandro Castilo and now we have this. Minnesota law states that it's not rape if the person has voluntarily been drinking on their own. What kind of warped people pass such a law?

A Minnesota man can’t be charged with rape, because the woman chose to drink beforehand, court rules

Well, its not like no woman never hollered rape when there was no rape.

The nature of women's rape fantasies: an analysis of prevalence, frequency, and contents - PubMed

This study evaluated the rape fantasies of female undergraduates (N = 355) using a fantasy checklist that reflected the legal definition of rape and a sexual fantasy log that included systematic prompts and self-ratings. Results indicated that 62% of women have had a rape fantasy, which is...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

.


Also....well known....some women mean yes when they say no.

Also...well known that women have more intense orgasms whilst being raped and they are more likely to get pregnant when raped than when having normal intercourse.

The pleasure factor women get from being raped is one reason that so many of them feel intense guilt....and that is also a factor in why some men become rapists...they get an intense satisfaction watching a woman they are forcing to have sex get such pleasure from the act.

What Science Says About Arousal During Rape

Yes, orgasms can happen to rape victims.

www.popsci.com

It is dangerous mixing up two totally different things here TheGreenHornet

The only way I can make any serious sense of what you posted is if you mean
sexual aggressiveness that is still consensual such as Submission/Dominance between consenting partners in a stable relationship
IE
NOT mentally, psychologically or sexually abusive
and
NOT criminal acts of rape that are violence
forced on victims either against their will
or without their ability to consent
or under other conditions of coercion,
fraud, duress or other disparity taking
advantage where the person isn't freely consenting

More cases of rape, abuse and trafficking
get written off and assumed to be consensual.

If cases were truly consensual then nobody would go back and claim it wasn't.

On some level, those two partners didn't agree on conditions of the relationship.

So "relationship abuse" is so common,
that's why it makes it so easy to dismiss rape in a social culture that allows people
freedom to abuse sex and people as normal.

If we tolerate abusing relations for sex, it is seen as "crying wolf" or "asking to get abused as if consenting to it."

This is like blaming victims who die from poisoning from counterfeit drugs for "wanting to kill themselves" by voluntarily taking drugs.

Does that mean cartels can get away with murder if they sell the victims deadly poison instead of a different illegal substance they agreed to buy and use?

As long as the victim AGREED to purchase and consume an illegal drug, then it's "their fault" if a crooked dealer sells them poison under a fraudulent label who cannot be charged with murder if the victims "consented to use drugs risking their lives."

What about dangerous cars?

If a person agrees to ride in car, knowing freeways and speeds above 55-60 are more deadly if collisions occur, then can a dangerous driver get away with killing passengers by breaking the law, driving too fast and reckless against the passengers' consent, just because they agreed to get in the car?

Where does this end?

Are you saying nobody has the right to say no or change their mind?

If I agree to eat dinner you cooked, but then find out you spiked it with hallucinogenic additives, are you saying I consented when I agreed to dinner? And justifying this because "everyone likes to eat food" and "most people enjoy hallucinogens to get high."

So this overrides the rights of the person to say no, and gives you free reign to abuse, drug, or cause brain damage to the person against their will?

????

 

[Grumblenuts]

From the OP's link:

At issue in Khalil’s case was a state law that says a person is only considered “mentally incapacitated” and incapable of consenting to sex if they are intoxicated on substances “administered to that person without the person’s agreement,” like if someone spikes a punch bowl at a party.

In effect, one consents to having any kind of sex, no matter how violent, dangerous, or risky.. unless, unless.. one can prove the punch bowl got spiked. Sounds like something only a Clarence Thomas or Brett Kavanaugh could dream up.

 

[TheGreenHornet]

What is wrong in Minnesota? So many really bad stories out of Minnesota. George Floyd, Justine Damond, Philandro Castilo and now we have this. Minnesota law states that it's not rape if the person has voluntarily been drinking on their own. What kind of warped people pass such a law?

A Minnesota man can’t be charged with rape, because the woman chose to drink beforehand, court rules

Well, its not like no woman never hollered rape when there was no rape.

The nature of women's rape fantasies: an analysis of prevalence, frequency, and contents - PubMed

This study evaluated the rape fantasies of female undergraduates (N = 355) using a fantasy checklist that reflected the legal definition of rape and a sexual fantasy log that included systematic prompts and self-ratings. Results indicated that 62% of women have had a rape fantasy, which is...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

.


Also....well known....some women mean yes when they say no.

Also...well known that women have more intense orgasms whilst being raped and they are more likely to get pregnant when raped than when having normal intercourse.

The pleasure factor women get from being raped is one reason that so many of them feel intense guilt....and that is also a factor in why some men become rapists...they get an intense satisfaction watching a woman they are forcing to have sex get such pleasure from the act.

What Science Says About Arousal During Rape

Yes, orgasms can happen to rape victims.

www.popsci.com

It is dangerous mixing up two totally different things here TheGreenHornet

The only way I can make any serious sense of what you posted is if you mean
sexual aggressiveness that is still consensual such as Submission/Dominance between consenting partners in a stable relationship
IE
NOT mentally, psychologically or sexually abusive
and
NOT criminal acts of rape that are violence
forced on victims either against their will
or without their ability to consent
or under other conditions of coercion,
fraud, duress or other disparity taking
advantage where the person isn't freely consenting

More cases of rape, abuse and trafficking
get written off and assumed to be consensual.

If cases were truly consensual then nobody would go back and claim it wasn't.

On some level, those two partners didn't agree on conditions of the relationship.

So "relationship abuse" is so common,
that's why it makes it so easy to dismiss rape in a social culture that allows people
freedom to abuse sex and people as normal.

If we tolerate abusing relations for sex, it is seen as "crying wolf" or "asking to get abused as if consenting to it."

This is like blaming victims who die from poisoning from counterfeit drugs for "wanting to kill themselves" by voluntarily taking drugs.

Does that mean cartels can get away with murder if they sell the victims deadly poison instead of a different illegal substance they agreed to buy and use?

As long as the victim AGREED to purchase and consume an illegal drug, then it's "their fault" if a crooked dealer sells them poison under a fraudulent label who cannot be charged with murder if the victims "consented to use drugs risking their lives."

What about dangerous cars?

If a person agrees to ride in car, knowing freeways and speeds above 55-60 are more deadly if collisions occur, then can a dangerous driver get away with killing passengers by breaking the law, driving too fast and reckless against the passengers' consent, just because they agreed to get in the car?

Where does this end?

Are you saying nobody has the right to say no or change their mind?

If I agree to eat dinner you cooked, but then find out you spiked it with hallucinogenic additives, are you saying I consented when I agreed to dinner? And justifying this because "everyone likes to eat food" and "most people enjoy hallucinogens to get high."

So this overrides the rights of the person to say no, and gives you free reign to abuse, drug, or cause brain damage to the person against their will?

????

bwaaaaaaaaaaaa mixed and mangled incoherent jabberwocky

Anyhow I will pick out just one item.....women are fickle....they can and have been known to consent but after getting fucked for whatever reason or reasons they get pissed off by something and claim they were raped or.....in an attempt to rip off her partner she may tell him I need some money....he refuses.....she cries rape. etc.etc. many scenarios could be conjured up here......in a nutshell many women are very devious and even evil...you seem very naive.

 

[Blues Man]

What is wrong in Minnesota? So many really bad stories out of Minnesota. George Floyd, Justine Damond, Philandro Castilo and now we have this. Minnesota law states that it's not rape if the person has voluntarily been drinking on their own. What kind of warped people pass such a law?

A Minnesota man can’t be charged with rape, because the woman chose to drink beforehand, court rules

Well, its not like no woman never hollered rape when there was no rape.

The nature of women's rape fantasies: an analysis of prevalence, frequency, and contents - PubMed

This study evaluated the rape fantasies of female undergraduates (N = 355) using a fantasy checklist that reflected the legal definition of rape and a sexual fantasy log that included systematic prompts and self-ratings. Results indicated that 62% of women have had a rape fantasy, which is...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

.


Also....well known....some women mean yes when they say no.

Also...well known that women have more intense orgasms whilst being raped and they are more likely to get pregnant when raped than when having normal intercourse.

The pleasure factor women get from being raped is one reason that so many of them feel intense guilt....and that is also a factor in why some men become rapists...they get an intense satisfaction watching a woman they are forcing to have sex get such pleasure from the act.

What Science Says About Arousal During Rape

Yes, orgasms can happen to rape victims.

www.popsci.com

Wow.

So how many women have you raped for their pleasure?

None other than your mother ....you may call me daddy.

so you're into necrophilia too.

Freak

 

[JoeB131]

Good points, however we don't have answers to those questions, so I'll stick with what we do know. And, until more comes out, it looks like he preyed on drunk girls.

If he did, a lot more of them would have come forward... and they haven't. So this sounds a lot more like, "Everyone involved was drunk and made bad decisions."

Implies consent? Are you kidding? So if you go to a friend's party after being legally intoxicated at 0.08% BAC, you are implying consent for someone to stick their penis in your asshole? That doesn't seem like something you would believe or defend.

I wouldn't know. I wouldn't get drunk at a friend's party because I tend to be an ugly drunk. But we aren't talking about a friend here, we are talking about a woman who went off with three total strangers after downing a Vicodin and 5 shots of vodka at 20. I used to be a hard drinker when I was in the service, but man, I would never have gotten THAT drunk.

I don't like siding with the usual right wingers on this one, but they kind of have a point. This woman showed incredibly bad judgement, and this young man shouldn't be spending the better part of his youth because she can't remember what she did.