Missouri Bill to raise age of consent to 18 (from 17)

[Delta4Embassy]

This is stupid. If a 19 year old has consensual sex with a 17 year old, their is nothing wrong with that.

Many states have close-in-age exceptions. Though if a state doesn't that 19 n 17 could be stat rape. In which case, ya it's stupid. Esepcially if another state wouldn't have it illegal.

Problem with our country's ages of consent is they're arbitrary, varied, and saying that a 17 year old in California isn't responsible enough to have sex, but is responsible enough to drive on a freeway and join the military, but a 17 year-old in Missouri is responsible enough, and a 16 year-old is in which ever states have it at that age.

We need to come up with a uniform age for things involving life and limb like driving,s ex, military, etc. that doesn't make it look like legislators were blindfolded and tossed a dart at the wall hitting the ages in question.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

I agree. But a 28yr old having sex with a 17yr old is reprehensible and should be shunned, legally and morally

Is it? My great-grandparents eloped. She was 17 and he was 26. Of course, this was in 1912 well before politicians decided it was their job to protect us all from ourselves.

In mental age she was 20 and he was 23. Perfectly normal.

Mental age? Thats rather subjective.

Exactly. There's no such thing as a valid, but of course arbitrary, number for the age of consent. That depends upon the person.

 

[G.T.]

I agree. But a 28yr old having sex with a 17yr old is reprehensible and should be shunned, legally and morally

Is it? My great-grandparents eloped. She was 17 and he was 26. Of course, this was in 1912 well before politicians decided it was their job to protect us all from ourselves.

In mental age she was 20 and he was 23. Perfectly normal.

Mental age? Thats rather subjective.

Exactly. There's no such thing as a valid, but of course arbitrary, number for the age of consent. That depends upon the person.

Its not just arbitrary if using averages for acuity.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

It's not all sex you perverts...

Have to be 19 to buy cigarettes (where I live), 21 for booze, and yea 17 army, 16 to drive, 18 to enter a contract. It's a bit silly to have that kind of spread and especially since kids mature at different ages so saying "oh they're ready to drive at 16" isn't always the case anyway.

Should just be one age for everything... (With possibly a slight exception of /maybe/ driving, because of after school jobs/activities...)

Driving age should be 30.

20 would be good.

Think it's 18 or 21 in some European countries. Think it's more about enviroment though in those cases.

But I've been the victim of teenaged drivers when riding a motorcycle. Ditzy teen girl in car in front of me with her friend beebopping around in the left turn lane, changed her mind wanting to go right and backed up right over my front wheel. Wasn't hurt but the front fairing was ripped apart. But goes to show the poor judgement of teens.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

It's not all sex you perverts...

Have to be 19 to buy cigarettes (where I live), 21 for booze, and yea 17 army, 16 to drive, 18 to enter a contract. It's a bit silly to have that kind of spread and especially since kids mature at different ages so saying "oh they're ready to drive at 16" isn't always the case anyway.

Should just be one age for everything... (With possibly a slight exception of /maybe/ driving, because of after school jobs/activities...)

Driving age should be 30.

20 would be good.

Think it's 18 or 21 in some European countries. Think it's more about enviroment though in those cases.

But I've been the victim of teenaged drivers when riding a motorcycle. Ditzy teen girl in car in front of me with her friend beebopping around in the left turn lane, changed her mind wanting to go right and backed up right over my front wheel. Wasn't hurt but the front fairing was ripped apart. But goes to show the poor judgement of teens.

Driving is complicated. Who you want to bed down with, not so much. I'd prefer the kids drive the blankets, not the roads. From a purely selfish perspective, I'm much safer that way.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

It's not all sex you perverts...

Have to be 19 to buy cigarettes (where I live), 21 for booze, and yea 17 army, 16 to drive, 18 to enter a contract. It's a bit silly to have that kind of spread and especially since kids mature at different ages so saying "oh they're ready to drive at 16" isn't always the case anyway.

Should just be one age for everything... (With possibly a slight exception of /maybe/ driving, because of after school jobs/activities...)

Driving age should be 30.

20 would be good.

Think it's 18 or 21 in some European countries. Think it's more about enviroment though in those cases.

But I've been the victim of teenaged drivers when riding a motorcycle. Ditzy teen girl in car in front of me with her friend beebopping around in the left turn lane, changed her mind wanting to go right and backed up right over my front wheel. Wasn't hurt but the front fairing was ripped apart. But goes to show the poor judgement of teens.

Driving is complicated. Who you want to bed down with, not so much. I'd prefer the kids drive the blankets, not the roads. From a purely selfish perspective, I'm much safer that way.

Let em stay home and have fun instead of getting in a car to go in search of fun? Makes sense.

 

[EverCurious]

Driving at 30 is a nice thought, it gets past those drinking care-free "I'm invencible" 20-somethings, however, it's oft impossible to have a job without a car. I personally don't mind paying for some bills for my kids until they're 30, but at the same time I have money, so what about parents who do not... Their kids are locked down unable to "better themselves" because they can't drive until 30? Meh, I'd rather have my kids working younger, like high school age, and learning those adult responsibilities - part of which /is/ not being an idiot under 30

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

In my opinion, we need to stop treating people like children when they really aren't. A 16 and 17 year old is not a child. They are a biological adult and if you go back 100 years they were treated as such an expected to behave like one. Then a bunch of psychology quacks invented the concept of adolescence and we started treating teenagers like they're 10 until they reach some magic age and it's getting worse.

Now you have college age adults in their early 20s being coddled by parents and school administrators as if they're too fragile and incapable of making their own decisions. 26 year olds can now stay on their parents' insurance plans under new federal rules. It's no wonder that today people tend to run around like children until they're 30 whereas a few generations ago that was practically unheard of. The more we keep treating teenagers and young adults like kids the longer they're going to behave like it. We need to be instilling more responsibility in them, not less, and start doing away with so many of these stupid age restrictions on activities that end up turning into passages into adulthood. It's making the problem worse, not better.

 

[G.T.]

In my opinion, we need to stop treating people like children when they really aren't. A 16 and 17 year old is not a child. They are a biological adult and if you go back 100 years they were treated as such an expected to behave like one. Then a bunch of psychology quacks invented the concept of adolescence and we started treating teenagers like they're 10 until they reach some magic age and it's getting worse.

Now you have college age adults in their early 20s being coddled by parents and school administrators as if they're too fragile and incapable of making their own decisions. 26 year olds can now stay on their parents' insurance plans under new federal rules. It's no wonder that today people tend to run around like children until they're 30 whereas a few generations ago that was practically unheard of. The more we keep treating teenagers and young adults like kids the longer they're going to behave like it. We need to be instilling more responsibility in them, not less, and start doing away with so many of these stupid age restrictions on activities that end up turning into passages into adulthood. It's making the problem worse, not better.

I think - philosophically - its far worse.

We are mad that its taking people longer to grow up....basically code for be responsible, carry your own weight, work, go to school.

This works great to have a society that advances technologically.

But its pretty fucking terrible for quality of life when humans are driven farther towards career than they are towards time and fun with family.

But theres no fixing THAT small hiccup in society's evolution.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

In my opinion, we need to stop treating people like children when they really aren't. A 16 and 17 year old is not a child. They are a biological adult and if you go back 100 years they were treated as such an expected to behave like one. Then a bunch of psychology quacks invented the concept of adolescence and we started treating teenagers like they're 10 until they reach some magic age and it's getting worse.

Now you have college age adults in their early 20s being coddled by parents and school administrators as if they're too fragile and incapable of making their own decisions. 26 year olds can now stay on their parents' insurance plans under new federal rules. It's no wonder that today people tend to run around like children until they're 30 whereas a few generations ago that was practically unheard of. The more we keep treating teenagers and young adults like kids the longer they're going to behave like it. We need to be instilling more responsibility in them, not less, and start doing away with so many of these stupid age restrictions on activities that end up turning into passages into adulthood. It's making the problem worse, not better.

Not even a hundred years ago, caught a bit of some Sonny and Cher movie the other night from 1965 showing college kids drinking and making martinis. The infantilization is very recent. I'm not entirely sure why it happened relatively suddenly, but since porn in widespread availability started around 1970 I think that we started being more repressive about sex has a connection. Until porn hit theatres, and later VCRs in homes, we were much more tolerant of teenaged sexuality. Likely, a number of things contributed from unwed pregnancies and increased burdens on the states to simply kids enjoying sex more than their parents. But it wasn't always like it is now. Used to be significantly different. Look at the original "Lolita" movie. That was considered fine cinema when it came out. Wasn't "Gone With The Wind" or anything, but what controversy there was wasn't to the extent the remake was. And "Gone With The Wind" has Scarlett and even her "younger" sisters desiring a man for romantic reasons. Try that today and people'll picket you if you're lucky, chase you up a tree and set fire to it if not.

 

[EverCurious]

Delta4Embassy - did you really just boil the entire nanny state mentality that's overtaken this country to porn availability? Common now hahahaha

Though I'll agree we seem to be going backwards as a country if you ask me, as far as mentality and responsibility. However, I think it has more to do with reverting in evolution than it does porn availability. We, in the US, have created a false culture where everything is "supposed" to be easy, from pre-school to adulthood, it's "supposed to be easy" ~sobs~ When in reality, it's NOT easy, it will never BE easy, and until we stop trying to pretend that shit's real, it's not going to get better...

 

[G.T.]

Delta4Embassy - did you really just boil the entire nanny state mentality that's overtaken this country to porn availability? Common now hahahaha

Though I'll agree we seem to be going backwards as a country if you ask me, as far as mentality and responsibility. However, I think it has more to do with reverting in evolution than it does porn availability. We, in the US, have created a false culture where everything is "supposed" to be easy, from pre-school to adulthood, it's "supposed to be easy" ~sobs~ When in reality, it's NOT easy, it will never BE easy, and until we stop trying to pretend that shit's real, it's not going to get better...

I think its deeper than this.

Why should it not be as easy as possible, to live life?

 

[EverCurious]

Delta4Embassy - did you really just boil the entire nanny state mentality that's overtaken this country to porn availability? Common now hahahaha

Though I'll agree we seem to be going backwards as a country if you ask me, as far as mentality and responsibility. However, I think it has more to do with reverting in evolution than it does porn availability. We, in the US, have created a false culture where everything is "supposed" to be easy, from pre-school to adulthood, it's "supposed to be easy" ~sobs~ When in reality, it's NOT easy, it will never BE easy, and until we stop trying to pretend that shit's real, it's not going to get better...

I think its deeper than this.

Why should it not be as easy as possible, to live life?

Because money; until money is no longer needed, there is going to be a fight to get it - be that on a personal beating out another prospective hire/promote by having a better resume/personality or being a better employee, or on larger "living a good life" aspect, which requires applying yourself to making money to buy the stuff you want/need.

Because human nature; if we continue to reward irresponsibility, then we as a country become more irresponsible as a whole.

Because survival of the fittest; if you are not willing to put forth the effort necessary for you to survive and reproduce, then you are not worthy of living and reproducing. (Truth hurts sorry)

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Delta4Embassy - did you really just boil the entire nanny state mentality that's overtaken this country to porn availability? Common now hahahaha

Though I'll agree we seem to be going backwards as a country if you ask me, as far as mentality and responsibility. However, I think it has more to do with reverting in evolution than it does porn availability. We, in the US, have created a false culture where everything is "supposed" to be easy, from pre-school to adulthood, it's "supposed to be easy" ~sobs~ When in reality, it's NOT easy, it will never BE easy, and until we stop trying to pretend that shit's real, it's not going to get better...

I think its deeper than this.

Why should it not be as easy as possible, to live life?

Very little, if anything at all, worthy is learned from things that are easy. A game that is easy to win isn't one.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Delta4Embassy - did you really just boil the entire nanny state mentality that's overtaken this country to porn availability? Common now hahahaha

Though I'll agree we seem to be going backwards as a country if you ask me, as far as mentality and responsibility. However, I think it has more to do with reverting in evolution than it does porn availability. We, in the US, have created a false culture where everything is "supposed" to be easy, from pre-school to adulthood, it's "supposed to be easy" ~sobs~ When in reality, it's NOT easy, it will never BE easy, and until we stop trying to pretend that shit's real, it's not going to get better...

Prior to porn being in mainstream theatres, sex wasn't something discussed in polite society. Once that changed, backlash over it is to be expected. AoC went up, and various laws came about more strictly regulating sex came about.

 

[G.T.]

Delta4Embassy - did you really just boil the entire nanny state mentality that's overtaken this country to porn availability? Common now hahahaha

Though I'll agree we seem to be going backwards as a country if you ask me, as far as mentality and responsibility. However, I think it has more to do with reverting in evolution than it does porn availability. We, in the US, have created a false culture where everything is "supposed" to be easy, from pre-school to adulthood, it's "supposed to be easy" ~sobs~ When in reality, it's NOT easy, it will never BE easy, and until we stop trying to pretend that shit's real, it's not going to get better...

I think its deeper than this.

Why should it not be as easy as possible, to live life?

Because money; until money is no longer needed, there is going to be a fight to get it - be that on a personal beating out another prospective hire/promote by having a better resume/personality or being a better employee, or on larger "living a good life" aspect, which requires applying yourself to making money to buy the stuff you want/need.

Because human nature; if we continue to reward irresponsibility, then we as a country become more irresponsible as a whole.

Because survival of the fittest; if you are not willing to put forth the effort necessary for you to survive and reproduce, then you are not worthy of living and reproducing. (Truth hurts sorry)

But we are there, at survival of the fittest.


That one doesnt apply. The reason people dont survive these days is because "fittest" became equal to "income."

It all ties into that: money.

Humans would innovate still without money at this point. BECAUSE we drive toward convenience, naturally.

I am sick, too. I am a part of this work hard because its moral and good for ya mind set.

But sitting on a rock thinking deep about it, its brainwashing. Its certainly not natural. Right now we work to improve our lives with the sacrifice of......

Not improving our lives.

The satisfaction simply shifts.

The more we decentralize from spending time with family, and centralize toward labor and production, the sicker we become.

 

[G.T.]

Delta4Embassy - did you really just boil the entire nanny state mentality that's overtaken this country to porn availability? Common now hahahaha

Though I'll agree we seem to be going backwards as a country if you ask me, as far as mentality and responsibility. However, I think it has more to do with reverting in evolution than it does porn availability. We, in the US, have created a false culture where everything is "supposed" to be easy, from pre-school to adulthood, it's "supposed to be easy" ~sobs~ When in reality, it's NOT easy, it will never BE easy, and until we stop trying to pretend that shit's real, it's not going to get better...

I think its deeper than this.

Why should it not be as easy as possible, to live life?

Very little, if anything at all, worthy is learned from things that are easy. A game that is easy to win isn't one.

Worthy is subjective.

Living easy in and of itself is "worthy," rendering your statement quite meaningless in that light.

Watching my daughter grow up with my wife for more hours would be EASY.

AND worthy.

But would hurt the daughter in that her future in THIS kind of society, would be burdened by it.

Its not the ease that is unworthy, its the lack thereof.

Life should be here to be enjoyed. We are all brainwashed. Self included. I work hard as fuck.

 

[Delta4Embassy]

Unless they're going to raise the age for marriage with parental consent (15 currently) I'd think the primary intent of this 1 year increase is simply to encourage more marriages and less 'sex for fun.' If you're faced with having to wait an additional year, you might try and get married though the 17yo will have to seek parental permission for that. Could be the sole intent since bumping 17 to 18 doesn't make a lot of sense by itself.

Interestingly, Missouri doesn't have a problem with minors drinking alocohol. Can do that at home with parental permission at any age. Can do shots with your old man/woman to your heart's content at 5 if they're ok with it. So I"d question any claim age of consent for sex is about protecting children at least here in Missouri where you can get shitfaced and do untold harm to your liver at any age.

 

[G.T.]

Unless they're going to raise the age for marriage with parental consent (15 currently) I'd think the primary intent of this 1 year increase is simply to encourage more marriages and less 'sex for fun.' If you're faced with having to wait an additional year, you might try and get married though the 17yo will have to seek parental permission for that. Could be the sole intent since bumping 17 to 18 doesn't make a lot of sense by itself.

Interestingly, Missouri doesn't have a problem with minors drinking alocohol. Can do that at home with parental permission at any age. Can do shots with your old man/woman to your heart's content at 5 if they're ok with it. So I"d question any claim age of consent for sex is about protecting children at least here in Missouri where you can get shitfaced and do untold harm to your liver at any age.

Should children have any protections in place from adults, sexually?

If so - shoot.

 

[Missourian]

I reckon it won't have much effect on those close in age anyway...and I don't see any harm in moving it up a year.

Other than Paint, who sees harm? And what is it?