Morning After pill

[ProudDem]

I'm an emergency physician (er doc) who likes to drive fast.

Speederdoc, interesting. Do you hear about the guy who screamed at Cheney (when Cheney went to New Orleans), "Go fu*k yourself"? Well, supposedly, that guy is an ER doctor--I forget where.

Admit it--was that you?

 

[speederdoc]

I support President Cheney. Funny clip though.

The kook who started the pledge of allegiance court case is an ER doc from Texas too.

 

[ProudDem]

I support President Cheney. Funny clip though.

The kook who started the pledge of allegiance court case is an ER doc from Texas too.

Hey, I just noticed you're in Houston. Are you close to Rice University? That's my alma mater. I'm heading there in November for my, gulp, 15th reunion. I cannot wait to go to Pappasitos. They have the best beef fajitas!

 

[Zhukov]

Speederdoc, interesting. Do you hear about the guy who screamed at Cheney (when Cheney went to New Orleans), "Go fu*k yourself"?

That guy was on Michael Medved's radio show. Struck me as a real immature whiny nut bag. Surprise, surprise.

 

[Max Power]

Things are not always quite so black and white. Here is my position:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/forums/showpost.php?p=231030&postcount=97

I'm just saying.
A popular position these days is to be opposed to abortion, but in support of it for special cases, like rape.

Well, the fetus isn't the one who committed the rape, so it shouldn't be punished for the crime.

Understand what I'm saying?

 

[Gem]

One of the main arguments against making the Morning After Pill available over the counter that I have heard frequently is that it can be unsafe to women. Does anyone have more information on that one? I'm too tired to look it up at the moment...but it never seemed to me that that was a viable reason to oppose it, considering that we allow tons of medicines to be available over the counter that can kill you if used improperly...or even properly.

I think that in a democratic nation that is full of people with different opinions we have to be willing to compromise, even on things that matter the most to us. The abortion debate will never end...there isn't a compromise that can appease the people who feel abortions should be available via drive-thru nor the people who feel that if the mother's life is in jeopardy its up to God to decide whether to save the mother, the child, both, or neither.

With that in mind, we need to, instead of trying to decide which side is right, make an opinion that is sane, rational, compassionate, and logica for where our nation is socially, morally, medically.

I, personally, think that the majority of abortions done in this nation are wrong. I was adamantly Pro-Choice in college...and the transformation was an interesting process. In the vast majority they are performed on young women, some with children already, most without...women who don't feel they are old enough, or have the money to afford a baby. I don't think its right to kill something that, if left alone, will become a fully functioning human, because its going to interfere with your life for 9 months.

However...I am willing to compromise...and from what I have read, my opinion is fairly in line with most of America. I support a woman's right to have an abortion in cases of rape, incest, the life of the mother, during the 1st trimester....my mind still isn't made up in cases of extreme disability. I think that this allows for the understanding that many in our nation do not feel that abortion is murder, or that it might well be murder, but sometimes is neccessary...while still allowing for the societal understanding that killing a developing human becomes wrong at some stage in development.

But there are some other major changes I would like to see in this nation on both sides of this debate.

For those of us who are Pro-Life...we need to be willing to put our money where our mouths and morals are.

We need to provide support structures for young women who decide to have the baby and raise it. We need to help young women stay in school, get jobs, have medical care for their baby. We need to push for adoption as the most reasonable and wonderful alternative to abortion...we need to make adoption more viable in the US...right now its exceptionally time consuming, expensive, and in many cases, somewhat humiliating...adoption agencies often pry into every personal aspect of peoples lives from their sex lives to their personal finances to whether or not they practice good nutrition. It shouldn't be easier to "buy a baby" from Eastern Europe or Africa than it is to adopt one here...ESPECIALLY considering that women abort thousands and thousands of babies a year in this nation while the number of infertile couples rises every year. We need to push for understanding not exile for young girls and women who get pregnant.

For those of us on the Pro-Choice side...they really need to make sure they are pro-CHOICE.

We can't be pro-choice if you don't let a woman see the final ultrasound before you perform an abortion because you don't want her to see the development of the fetus for fear she'll change her mind or get upset. (Yes, it happens...I have gone to Planned Parenthood twice with two different friends in college...both said they asked to see the last ultrasound and weren't allowed to).

We can't be pro-choice if you don't answer questions honestly...if you get an abortion the baby will NOT return to you when you "are ready to be its mommy," this baby will not "wait for a mommy who is ready for it." These are things that women have reportedly been told when asked if they are killing a baby by getting an abortion.

If we are serious about being pro-CHOICE than we need to make sure that adoption isn't mentioned as a "ok, now i have to mention this....even though we both know it isn't a serious option."

We have to be serious about examining the personal and social issues of abortion if we are pro-CHOICE. Most studies about whether or not women are happy with their decision to abort are taken soon after the abortion...long-term studies are very few and far between...but they suggest that many women...if not MOST women...suffer incredible guilt and feelings of depression, anxiety, worthlessness after having an abortion...the decision haunts them, they often name their aborted baby and celebrate a birthday during the month it would have been born. These are serious emotional issues that need to be studied and discussed...What will we do if it turns out that abortion HURTS the very women who thought it would HELP them?


A lot of work needs to be done on both sides of the spectrum...but I think it is important to keep in mind that this isn't a debate that will ever end. The best we can hope for is a decision that best reflects ALL of the opinions of Americans. Perhaps letting it return to a state issue...where Massachussettes could make abortion available upto and including delivery...and Alabama can say that there are no abortions allowed ever.

 

[ProudDem]

I'm just saying.
A popular position these days is to be opposed to abortion, but in support of it for special cases, like rape.

Well, the fetus isn't the one who committed the rape, so it shouldn't be punished for the crime.

Understand what I'm saying?

I do understand what you're saying Max. However, you must understand how traumatic it might be for a woman to have to carry a baby that was conceived by a violent moment. Many women will develop post-traumatic stress disorder as a result of being raped. If she is depressed and suicidal, I just don't see how anyone can say, "Tough, lady, carry it to term."

 

[dilloduck]

I do understand what you're saying Max. However, you must understand how traumatic it might be for a woman to have to carry a baby that was conceived by a violent moment. Many women will develop post-traumatic stress disorder as a result of being raped. If she is depressed and suicidal, I just don't see how anyone can say, "Tough, lady, carry it to term."

And others don't see how anyone can say---It's not a human-kill it!
it's the nature of the argument.

 

[Gem]

ProudDem,

While I agree with you, I also don't think we can discount the cases of women who have carried to term their babies conceived by rape who state that by doing so they experienced a sense of healing and surviving that wouldn't have happened had they had the abortion. They report that it made them feel "better" than the rapist, that it gave them back the power that the rapist had taken away from them...by survivng the rape and bring the child into the world with a love and respect that the rapist did not show them they conquered the rape.

Now, obviously, this is not going to be every woman's story...but I do feel that it should be discussed as a serious option...afterall...that child did not ask to be conceived that way and yes, its going to be a very tough thing to deal with for their entire life...but I'm willing to bet that no one would rather be dead than have to deal with that fact.

 

[ProudDem]

ProudDem,

While I agree with you, I also don't think we can discount the cases of women who have carried to term their babies conceived by rape who state that by doing so they experienced a sense of healing and surviving that wouldn't have happened had they had the abortion. They report that it made them feel "better" than the rapist, that it gave them back the power that the rapist had taken away from them...by survivng the rape and bring the child into the world with a love and respect that the rapist did not show them they conquered the rape.

Now, obviously, this is not going to be every woman's story...but I do feel that it should be discussed as a serious option...afterall...that child did not ask to be conceived that way and yes, its going to be a very tough thing to deal with for their entire life...but I'm willing to bet that no one would rather be dead than have to deal with that fact.

Hi Gem. First of all, your prior post about your thoughts on abortion was excellent--very well thought out and articulate. I really liked what you said.

Regarding the above post, I guess I had never heard of a woman healing from carrying the baby to term. Hmmmm. I do like the sound of that. The bottom line is that I think that the woman should be able to decide whether she wants to terminate the pregnancy or not, but that she must decide before the 3rd trimester.

 

[Gem]

ProudDem,

Glad that I expressed myself clearly...it can be tough when its a topic that has strong feelings swirling around it.

I, when studying more about the Pro-Life side of the abortion debate, read several "testimonies" written by women who had carried babies of rape to term. Several kept the baby, several gave the baby up for adoption. All of them spoke about the feeling of taking power back from the rapist which I thought was a wonderful message.

I agree with you, that in cases of rape, abortion should ALWAYS be an option available to the woman. I just think that if we are serious about CHOICE, then we need to talk to them about all the choices...not just the choice to abort.

 

[speederdoc]

I'm just saying.
A popular position these days is to be opposed to abortion, but in support of it for special cases, like rape.

Well, the fetus isn't the one who committed the rape, so it shouldn't be punished for the crime.

Understand what I'm saying?

Absolutely. I would oppose second trimester or later abortions in most of those circumstances. I realize it must be a difficult decision to make, but that does not excuse them from the need to make it relatively quickly.

 

[Trigg]

I'm just saying.
A popular position these days is to be opposed to abortion, but in support of it for special cases, like rape.

Well, the fetus isn't the one who committed the rape, so it shouldn't be punished for the crime.

Woman will probably take this position more than a man will, since for us it isn't hypothetical.

No, the rape isn't the fetuses fault, but neither is it the womans. I'm sure there are strong women out there who could handle carrying a rapists child, but there are probably just as many who would fall apart if force to.