My own message on the 9th of Av.

[Lipush]

Tomorrow is the Ninth of Av.

On that day, dear ones, we are to remember that that time symbolizes darkness. The darkness of today is expressed in many ways between the children of Israel.

Between Sepharadis and Mizrachis. between orthodox and secular, between leftists and rightists, between those who voted "Judaism before democracy" and those who call for the other way around.

Peace with the Arabs cannot come unless there is peace between Jews themselves, and we cannot love our enemies before we learn to love ourselves, and deal with the differences.

So in hopes that next year in Jerusalem, in our lost holy temple, we will see acceptance and love and self appreciation.

Ki Al Sin'at Hinam Charav Beis HaMikdash

And in high hopes that we can grow to be better people, light onto the gentiles, and good example to our children.

And in Ninth of Av, we all wish to sing and cherish this song-

I wish,
that from a cloud, a rainbow'd come down upon us
I wish,
that this would could be repaired
I wish,
that a day'd spring up out of the raging storm
I wish,
and our eternal gift wont be lost
I wish,
that the Negev will sprout grass and flowers
I wish,
that we would yet sit under the shade of the fig tree.
Oh, I wish!
that we sill see no more pain,
and I man will love his sibling
I wish,
that the garden of Eden will again be opened
I wish,
that east and west will be united, I wish it so
I wish,
that we could renew our days here, like long ago.
I wish
that a nation won't wave its sword to another nation
I wish
that we will not desert the path of hope
I wish
that the human will be compassionate from morning till evening
I wish
that there will be a tiny chance for love

 

[ForeverYoung436]

Tomorrow is the Ninth of Av.

On that day, dear ones, we are to remember that that time symbolizes darkness. The darkness of today is expressed in many ways between the children of Israel.

Between Sepharadis and Mizrachis. between orthodox and secular, between leftists and rightists, between those who voted "Judaism before democracy" and those who call for the other way around.

Peace with the Arabs cannot come unless there is peace between Jews themselves, and we cannot love our enemies before we learn to love ourselves, and deal with the differences.

So in hopes that next year in Jerusalem, in our lost holy temple, we will see acceptance and love and self appreciation.

Ki Al Sin'at Hinam Charav Beis HaMikdash

And in high hopes that we can grow to be better people, light onto the gentiles, and good example to our children.

And in Ninth of Av, we all wish to sing and cherish this song-

I wish,
that from a cloud, a rainbow'd come down upon us
I wish,
that this would could be repaired
I wish,
that a day'd spring up out of the raging storm
I wish,
and our eternal gift wont be lost
I wish,
that the Negev will sprout grass and flowers
I wish,
that we would yet sit under the shade of the fig tree.
Oh, I wish!
that we sill see no more pain,
and I man will love his sibling
I wish,
that the garden of Eden will again be opened
I wish,
that east and west will be united, I wish it so
I wish,
that we could renew our days here, like long ago.
I wish
that a nation won't wave its sword to another nation
I wish
that we will not desert the path of hope
I wish
that the human will be compassionate from morning till evening
I wish
that there will be a tiny chance for love

May everyone here have an easy fast.

 

[Jroc]

I added this to my signature I've always believed this to be the case..Which is what I try to do, even though I don't agree with so many liberals Jews

When a Jew, wherever she or he goes, carries every other Jew in his or her heart, then all of us are one.
And when we are one, all the peoples of the world can live in harmony as one.
And then the world is healed. For we are the heart of the world

.

 

[Coyote]

This thread has been derailed - derailing posts have been moved to http://www.usmessageboard.com/usmb-badlands/303061-9th-of-av-badlands-version.html

Please respond to the topic - not to the usual battle hymns.

 

[sealadaigh]

I added this to my signature I've always believed this to be the case..Which is what I try to do, even though I don't agree with so many liberals Jews

When a Jew, wherever she or he goes, carries every other Jew in his or her heart, then all of us are one.
And when we are one, all the peoples of the world can live in harmony as one.
And then the world is healed. For we are the heart of the world

.

i don't understand this. it sounds extraordinarily arrogant to me.

i certainly have no problem with people being proud of their ancestry or whatever, but when they qualitatively elevate themselves above others, such as proclaiming that they are "the heart of the world" or "a light unto the gentiles"...well, i don't know. maybe it is just me, but i was brought up to think of all people equally.

 

[Coyote]

I added this to my signature I've always believed this to be the case..Which is what I try to do, even though I don't agree with so many liberals Jews

When a Jew, wherever she or he goes, carries every other Jew in his or her heart, then all of us are one.
And when we are one, all the peoples of the world can live in harmony as one.
And then the world is healed. For we are the heart of the world

.

i don't understand this. it sounds extraordinarily arrogant to me.

i certainly have no problem with people being proud of their ancestry or whatever, but when they qualitatively elevate themselves above others, such as proclaiming that they are "the heart of the world" or "a light unto the gentiles"...well, i don't know. maybe it is just me, but i was brought up to think of all people equally.

It's a prayer...isn't it?

Is it different from many Christian prayers advocating that they go out and spread the world? The bumper sticker slogans of "Christians aren't perfect, just forgiven"?

 

[Lipush]

Tomorrow is the Ninth of Av.

On that day, dear ones, we are to remember that that time symbolizes darkness. The darkness of today is expressed in many ways between the children of Israel.

Between Sepharadis and Mizrachis. between orthodox and secular, between leftists and rightists, between those who voted "Judaism before democracy" and those who call for the other way around.

Peace with the Arabs cannot come unless there is peace between Jews themselves, and we cannot love our enemies before we learn to love ourselves, and deal with the differences.

So in hopes that next year in Jerusalem, in our lost holy temple, we will see acceptance and love and self appreciation.

Ki Al Sin'at Hinam Charav Beis HaMikdash

And in high hopes that we can grow to be better people, light onto the gentiles, and good example to our children.

And in Ninth of Av, we all wish to sing and cherish this song-

I wish,
that from a cloud, a rainbow'd come down upon us
I wish,
that this would could be repaired
I wish,
that a day'd spring up out of the raging storm
I wish,
and our eternal gift wont be lost
I wish,
that the Negev will sprout grass and flowers
I wish,
that we would yet sit under the shade of the fig tree.
Oh, I wish!
that we sill see no more pain,
and I man will love his sibling
I wish,
that the garden of Eden will again be opened
I wish,
that east and west will be united, I wish it so
I wish,
that we could renew our days here, like long ago.
I wish
that a nation won't wave its sword to another nation
I wish
that we will not desert the path of hope
I wish
that the human will be compassionate from morning till evening
I wish
that there will be a tiny chance for love

May everyone here have an easy fast.

Thank you, you too

 

[Lipush]

I added this to my signature I've always believed this to be the case..Which is what I try to do, even though I don't agree with so many liberals Jews

When a Jew, wherever she or he goes, carries every other Jew in his or her heart, then all of us are one.
And when we are one, all the peoples of the world can live in harmony as one.
And then the world is healed. For we are the heart of the world

.

Yes, this is very true!

Reminds me of Napoleon's famous story.

He once was traveling through a small Jewish town in Europe. He entered a synagogue. There he saw an incredible sight. Men and women weeping. They were sitting on the floor on small stools holding candles while reading from books. The synagogue had an elaborate chandelier but only a few candles were lit. If not for the small candle lights the magnificent synagogue would have been in complete darkness. It was a gloomy and sad sight to behold.

Napoleon asked why the people were weeping and wanted to know what misfortune had happened here.

An enlightened Jewish French officer told him that nothing new and terrible had happened. The Jewish people had a custom to gather once a year on a day called the ninth day of Av, the day that marks the destruction of the Jewish people's Temple. Twice they built a magnificent Temple in Jerusalem and both were destroyed. After their second Temple was destroyed the people were scattered all over the world and sold as slaves. Some escaped and built their homes world over. Somehow the Jewish people exist without their country and their Temple.

In order to commemorate these sad events they gather once a year in synagogue. There they fast, pray, and read sad prophetic writings concerning the destruction of their Temple and land. What we see in this town is happening in all Jewish communities.

Napoleon inquired as to how many years have they been doing this and was over 2000 years. Upon hearing this Napoleon exclaimed, ""Certainly, a people which has mourned the loss of their Temple for so long will survive to see it rebuilt!"

 

[sealadaigh]

I added this to my signature I've always believed this to be the case..Which is what I try to do, even though I don't agree with so many liberals Jews

.

i don't understand this. it sounds extraordinarily arrogant to me.

i certainly have no problem with people being proud of their ancestry or whatever, but when they qualitatively elevate themselves above others, such as proclaiming that they are "the heart of the world" or "a light unto the gentiles"...well, i don't know. maybe it is just me, but i was brought up to think of all people equally.

It's a prayer...isn't it?

Is it different from many Christian prayers advocating that they go out and spread the world? The bumper sticker slogans of "Christians aren't perfect, just forgiven"?

and i would find that equally as offensive.

i have a prayer in my signature, or part of a prayer...

it means when transkated (and it loses a little intranslation)

"walk humbly along the road,
and greet the poor person twice."

i don't know...maybe the purpose of prayer is to proclaim your culture's closeness to god above that of other cultures.

i guess gods need to be on somebody's side.

 

[Lipush]

Why are you choosing to be insulted with things that has no hidden insulting meaning? I mean, what's the idea?

 

[Coyote]

i don't understand this. it sounds extraordinarily arrogant to me.

i certainly have no problem with people being proud of their ancestry or whatever, but when they qualitatively elevate themselves above others, such as proclaiming that they are "the heart of the world" or "a light unto the gentiles"...well, i don't know. maybe it is just me, but i was brought up to think of all people equally.

It's a prayer...isn't it?

Is it different from many Christian prayers advocating that they go out and spread the world? The bumper sticker slogans of "Christians aren't perfect, just forgiven"?

and i would find that equally as offensive.

i have a prayer in my signature, or part of a prayer...

it means when transkated (and it loses a little intranslation)

"walk humbly along the road,
and greet the poor person twice."

i don't know...maybe the purpose of prayer is to proclaim your culture's closeness to god above that of other cultures.

i guess gods need to be on somebody's side.

I think every religion promotes a special closeness to God for it's people - or at least the main ones we are familiar with. I see no uniqueness of this with Jews, which is why it troubles me to see references to them as regarding themselves as special or chosen. Often, I think all religions have a certain arrogance - an inclusive "we" and exclusive "other".

When I read Lipush's post - I see a desire for a people to be a better people - to put aside differences, to be compassionate. It's a particular prayer for a particular day

I wish,
that we could renew our days here, like long ago.
I wish
that a nation won't wave its sword to another nation
I wish
that we will not desert the path of hope
I wish
that the human will be compassionate from morning till evening
I wish
that there will be a tiny chance for love

I like your sig - "walk humbly along the road, and greet the poor person twice."

That is a good one to remember in life

 

[fairandbalanced]

The Start of an Air Force: Israel .
Fascinating and inspiring...

A GOOD STORY NOT KNOWN BY MANY.

The only four (4) airplanes Israel had when the war of independence began were smuggled from Czech Republic . They were German "Messerschmidt 109". They were assembled overnight in Tel Aviv and were never flight tested.This is a short video about their pilots.

Watch it. You will not be disappointed.

P.S. Contrary to popular perception (by the people who do not know history), the United States ' assistance to Israel during the war of independence was quite different.

Americans were not allowed to join the fight and arms embargo has been established and enforced by the FBI.

At the same time Arab armies were very well supplied by the same countries who maintained arms embargo against Israel and of course had great advantage in manpower.

Watch this video
Sample Reel for 'Above and Beyond: The Birth of the Israeli Air Force' - Playmount Productions on Vimeo

 

[sealadaigh]

Why are you choosing to be insulted with things that has no hidden insulting meaning? I mean, what's the idea?

i am not personally insulted at all because i have very little regard for racist and/or ethnocentricalolly bigoted comments in casual conversation, serious discussion, or religious rote.

it just goes against my grain when one people think they are the heart of the world or have some particular worth so as to shine a light upon the rest of us...i.e. "gentiles".

perhaps i jsut have an inclination to defend my and my other gentiles' commonality against words uttered by those who seem to have chosen to think of themselves as particularly enlightened and worthy.

 

[Lipush]

It's a prayer...isn't it?

Is it different from many Christian prayers advocating that they go out and spread the world? The bumper sticker slogans of "Christians aren't perfect, just forgiven"?

and i would find that equally as offensive.

i have a prayer in my signature, or part of a prayer...

it means when transkated (and it loses a little intranslation)

"walk humbly along the road,
and greet the poor person twice."

i don't know...maybe the purpose of prayer is to proclaim your culture's closeness to god above that of other cultures.

i guess gods need to be on somebody's side.

I think every religion promotes a special closeness to God for it's people - or at least the main ones we are familiar with. I see no uniqueness of this with Jews, which is why it troubles me to see references to them as regarding themselves as special or chosen. Often, I think all religions have a certain arrogance - an inclusive "we" and exclusive "other".

When I read Lipush's post - I see a desire for a people to be a better people - to put aside differences, to be compassionate. It's a particular prayer for a particular day

I wish,
that we could renew our days here, like long ago.
I wish
that a nation won't wave its sword to another nation
I wish
that we will not desert the path of hope
I wish
that the human will be compassionate from morning till evening
I wish
that there will be a tiny chance for love

I like your sig - "walk humbly along the road, and greet the poor person twice."

That is a good one to remember in life

Yes, I must say, it sounds like a great motto to live by.

 

[fairandbalanced]

I am sorry Lipush.
I meant to ask you a question and then start a thread about the IAF but somehow "multi tasked" and it appeared on your thread. I regret the intrusion.

 

[Lipush]

It's a prayer...isn't it?

Is it different from many Christian prayers advocating that they go out and spread the world? The bumper sticker slogans of "Christians aren't perfect, just forgiven"?

and i would find that equally as offensive.

i have a prayer in my signature, or part of a prayer...

it means when transkated (and it loses a little intranslation)

"walk humbly along the road,
and greet the poor person twice."

i don't know...maybe the purpose of prayer is to proclaim your culture's closeness to god above that of other cultures.

i guess gods need to be on somebody's side.

I think every religion promotes a special closeness to God for it's people - or at least the main ones we are familiar with. I see no uniqueness of this with Jews, which is why it troubles me to see references to them as regarding themselves as special or chosen. Often, I think all religions have a certain arrogance - an inclusive "we" and exclusive "other".

When I read Lipush's post - I see a desire for a people to be a better people - to put aside differences, to be compassionate. It's a particular prayer for a particular day

I wish,
that we could renew our days here, like long ago.
I wish
that a nation won't wave its sword to another nation
I wish
that we will not desert the path of hope
I wish
that the human will be compassionate from morning till evening
I wish
that there will be a tiny chance for love

I like your sig - "walk humbly along the road, and greet the poor person twice."

That is a good one to remember in life

It actually is based on one of the most famous Israeli songs- Halevai.

It is one of my favorite songs.

 

[Lipush]

I am sorry Lipush.
I meant to ask you a question and then start a thread about the IAF but somehow "multi tasked" and it appeared on your thread. I regret the intrusion.

surely you don't have to appologize to me....

You are more than welcome to ask what you wanted, though, in a start over post

 

[sealadaigh]

It's a prayer...isn't it?

Is it different from many Christian prayers advocating that they go out and spread the world? The bumper sticker slogans of "Christians aren't perfect, just forgiven"?

and i would find that equally as offensive.

i have a prayer in my signature, or part of a prayer...

it means when transkated (and it loses a little intranslation)

"walk humbly along the road,
and greet the poor person twice."

i don't know...maybe the purpose of prayer is to proclaim your culture's closeness to god above that of other cultures.

i guess gods need to be on somebody's side.

I think every religion promotes a special closeness to God for it's people - or at least the main ones we are familiar with. I see no uniqueness of this with Jews, which is why it troubles me to see references to them as regarding themselves as special or chosen. Often, I think all religions have a certain arrogance - an inclusive "we" and exclusive "other".

When I read Lipush's post - I see a desire for a people to be a better people - to put aside differences, to be compassionate. It's a particular prayer for a particular day

I wish,
that we could renew our days here, like long ago.
I wish
that a nation won't wave its sword to another nationI wish
that we will not desert the path of hope
I wish
that the human will be compassionate from morning till evening
I wish
that there will be a tiny chance for love

I like your sig - "walk humbly along the road, and greet the poor person twice."

That is a good one to remember in life

i think a jewish person would be very offended if a catholic or muslim made such claims and prayed to shine their light onto the jews. i certainly would be.

also, i find it offensive in light of all the other comments that occur on other days justifying the crimes against humanity being committed by the israels and the waving of swords as mentioned above.

as for the use of "chosen", i think it entirely appropriate for this prayer. that prayer makes the distinction....shining light on gentiles.

also, let's not forget the objection raised by jews and/or israelis about some latin rite mass prayer and their denigration of the omnipresent "allah akbar" which is also a prayer.

because something is a prayer does not mean it is inoffensive and as for the good intent, hitler had the good intent of restoring germany to her former glory, but that good intent really didn't work out now, did it, on his particular pathway to hell.

 

[Hossfly]

Why are you choosing to be insulted with things that has no hidden insulting meaning? I mean, what's the idea?

i am not personally insulted at all because i have very little regard for racist and/or ethnocentricalolly bigoted comments in casual conversation, serious discussion, or religious rote.

it just goes against my grain when one people think they are the heart of the world or have some particular worth so as to shine a light upon the rest of us...i.e. "gentiles".

perhaps i jsut have an inclination to defend my and my other gentiles' commonality against words uttered by those who seem to have chosen to think of themselves as particularly enlightened and worthy.

I wonder if Seal would think it arrogant if he spotted a bumper sticker saying "Islam is the Answer to All Your Modern Problems." I had no problem with seeing that because I know it is different strokes for different folks. Additionally, I wonder how Seal would have responded when an Iranian man on a forum said that Islam is not just for the iranians or the Arabs -- it is for the entire world. Would Seal have said that this poster was being arrogant thinking his religion was for the entire world?

 

[Lipush]

Why are you choosing to be insulted with things that has no hidden insulting meaning? I mean, what's the idea?

i am not personally insulted at all because i have very little regard for racist and/or ethnocentricalolly bigoted comments in casual conversation, serious discussion, or religious rote.

it just goes against my grain when one people think they are the heart of the world or have some particular worth so as to shine a light upon the rest of us...i.e. "gentiles".

perhaps i jsut have an inclination to defend my and my other gentiles' commonality against words uttered by those who seem to have chosen to think of themselves as particularly enlightened and worthy.

That is not first time I heard it.

Jews believe we are the heart of the world has nothing to do with thinking that Gentiles are any less.

It is nothing than to think about us as personal example to the world. if we want to live in a world which is better, the first repair need to be from within, "A light to the gentile" means, when we try to point out to the gentile that he must do that or that, we should stop, and look at ourselves first, are we behaving like we expect the gentile to behave? are we following our own example.

Not only it isn't racist, but it is self criticizing in the most callous way.