Natural Gas - A Solution?

[Old Rocks]

Thank you, Kiss My. Incredibly interesting video.

 

[Old Rocks]

Corn ethonol is a clear loser, and something I have thought a bad idea from the git-go. The data on the distance a kJ of energy will take you in an electric compared to what a kJ will take you in an ICE is rather surprising. Almost double.

Corn Ethanol creates more food than Corn alone does. For that reason alone it is a winner. Corn is fed to livestock. Livestock evolved as foragers, not raw corn eaters. Animals eating corn emit methane gas & pass most of the nourishment of the corn out into manure that emits methane & pollutes water. Methane is 15 times worse on the environment as CO2. Ethanol plants grind, cook & use enzymes to breakdown corn into energy & protein. Ethanol plants turn all the stuff in corn that animals emit into the atmosphere as methane, into Ethanol before feeding it. The Corn Ethanol Plant by-product is DDG livestock feed that grows animals faster than corn or grass does. The fact is if you are in livestock production, you can not be competitive unless you are feeding Ethanol DDG Feed! Also ethanol plants run on waste heat from power plants & steel mills. They do not consume raw energy to generate Ethanol. The real EROEI for Corn Ethanol is 3 to 1.

Interesting. Have you links for this. I am interested, as it counters what I have heard elsewhere. If what you are stating is true for most corn ethanol production, then I have been mistaken in my opposition to it.

 

[gslack]

Gslack -

Neither wing, solar, nor tidal are catch-all solutions, which is possibly why many posters find them difficult to understand, but each is perfectly viable and productive in favourable conditions.

Around the Mediterranean, for instance, in some areas 90% of homes feature a solar panel. This has had a massive impact in countries like Italy, Turkey and Israel - so much so that prices for electricity have fallen sharply in Italy recently.

I'm not a huge fan of wind, but obviously in Denmark, Germany and Spain it has been impressive, and will continue to be so in future.

But tidal is likely to be the major form of renewable energy in future because it produces electricity 23 hous a day, and in volume. The US may be some distance behind in this field, but for countries like Scotland, Korea, New Zealand, Norway and Japan, it is surging ahead.

To me it is kind of funny to mention the environmental impact of tidal energy - but not mention the environmental impact of coal, which is obviously far, far greater. Tidal energy need not have any environmental impact at all - it just needs tinkering, which is now almost complete, actually. I know of one project involving 200 x 18 metre turbines that will soon be launched.

I disagree with you on hydroelectric or tidal. The first time a seal or a fish, a sea urchin is killed by the machinery there is going to be a backlash. Not to mention the effect on any ecosystem it's placed in.

Solar requires good weather and only has half a day at best of actual use. A supplement sure, power a water heater, some other systems that aren't in constant use. Small scale per household would be fine if the person was able to maintain it. Anything more than that and it's a waste of time and resources. It's just not effective on a larger scale, never has been.

Wind, too costly, too dangerous, can be a hazard for birds. The local school here built a big one a couple years ago. It's huge,you can see it from a couple miles away. It heats their swimming pool, that's pretty much it. They claimed it would help power the local community but that was just big talk, it doesn't power anything other than the pool heater and even that is supplemental. The thing cost around 1.2 mill to build and maintain for the first year. Since then the maintenance costs are still more than the net gain from its use..

Fossil fuels are gonna die out. They will they will have to. Simply because with the growth in 3rd world countries and demand increasing they just won't be viable.

I stand with hydrogen fuel cell and related tech for motor vehicles and transportation in the future. Simply because it will fit right into the existing infrastructures based on fossil fuels. Gas stations can carry compressed hydrogen with a bit of modifications. They already have cars using the technology and in some states gas stations carry it although very limited. The tech will get better, more efficient, and cheaper to make and replicate as time goes on.

Now you asked why I mentioned some alternatives being bad for ecosystems, and didn't mention coal being bad for them as well... Well if you want to argue the merits and demerits of coal, say so. This was about alternatives..

 

[Saigon]

I disagree with you on hydroelectric or tidal.

Hydroelectric has nothing whatsoever to do with tidal enegy.

Tidal energy is produced using the tidal flow, usually between two islands, between an island and the mainland, or in and out of a major harbour of fjord.

Yes, at the moment there are problems with the massive turbines killing sharks and dolphins, but I don't think anyone expects that to be a deal breaker. It just means another few months for the New Zealanders analysing where to position the turbines in relation to the sea bed.

There is no other significant environmental impact - the turbines are invisible and silent, and require little land-based infrastructure to run.

btw. Solar does not require sunshine - only light. A country like Spain has light 12 hours a day for most of the year, and those hours are the same hours that place demand on the electrical grid. Put solar panels on a shopping centre, and that is all of the lights, hot water and much of the air con covered.

 

[gslack]

I disagree with you on hydroelectric or tidal.

Hydroelectric has nothing whatsoever to do with tidal enegy.

Tidal energy is produced using the tidal flow, usually between two islands, between an island and the mainland, or in and out of a major harbour of fjord.

Yes, at the moment there are problems with the massive turbines killing sharks and dolphins, but I don't think anyone expects that to be a deal breaker. It just means another few months for the New Zealanders analysing where to position the turbines in relation to the sea bed.

There is no other significant environmental impact - the turbines are invisible and silent, and require little land-based infrastructure to run.

btw. Solar does not require sunshine - only light. A country like Spain has light 12 hours a day for most of the year, and those hours are the same hours that place demand on the electrical grid. Put solar panels on a shopping centre, and that is all of the lights, hot water and much of the air con covered.

gonna call ya on that underlined part cause it's bullshit.. The rest, it's just your opinion and I don't agree but its yours...

The underlined bit..

"Hydroelectric has nothing whatsoever to do with tidal enegy. "

First off, hydroelectric is not specific to a dam or waterway, waterfall et, it's electric energy gained from the use of water turning a turbine to produce electricity..

Hydro = water, electric = electricity...

a link scroll down to the part below...

Hydroelectricity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Conventional (dams)
See also: List of conventional hydroelectric power stations
Most hydroelectric power comes from the potential energy of dammed water driving a water turbine and generator. The power extracted from the water depends on the volume and on the difference in height between the source and the water's outflow. This height difference is called the head. The amount of potential energy in water is proportional to the head. A large pipe (the "penstock") delivers water to the turbine.[11]

Pumped-storage
Main article: Pumped-storage hydroelectricity
See also: List of pumped-storage hydroelectric power stations
This method produces electricity to supply high peak demands by moving water between reservoirs at different elevations. At times of low electrical demand, excess generation capacity is used to pump water into the higher reservoir. When there is higher demand, water is released back into the lower reservoir through a turbine. Pumped-storage schemes currently provide the most commercially important means of large-scale grid energy storage and improve the daily capacity factor of the generation system. Pumped storage is not an energy source, and appears as a negative number in listings.[12]

Run-of-the-river
Main article: Run-of-the-river hydroelectricity
See also: List of run-of-the-river hydroelectric power stations
Run-of-the-river hydroelectric stations are those with small or no reservoir capacity, so that the water coming from upstream must be used for generation at that moment, or must be allowed to bypass the dam. In the United States, run of the river hydropower could potentially provide 60,000 MW (about 13.7% of total use in 2011 if continuously available).[13]

Tide
Main article: Tide power
See also: List of tidal power stations
A tidal power plant makes use of the daily rise and fall of ocean water due to tides; such sources are highly predictable, and if conditions permit construction of reservoirs, can also be dispatchable to generate power during high demand periods. Less common types of hydro schemes use water's kinetic energy or undammed sources such as undershot waterwheels. Tidal power is viable in a relatively small number of locations around the world. In Great Britain, there are eight sites that could be developed, but they have the potential to generate 20% of the electricity used in 2012.[14]

See what I mean....

 

[tjvh]

Hello all,
First time poster here. The controversy about whether natural gas is a viable and greener energy source than our current means of generating electricity is a hotly debated topic. I made a video that I think is very relevant to this topic as well as our energy future, and I encourage you to check it out! Search "Natural Gas - A Solution" by 23rdCenturySlang on YouTube and let me know what you think!

Whenever someone says green, get your wallets out.

 

[KissMy]

Corn ethonol is a clear loser, and something I have thought a bad idea from the git-go. The data on the distance a kJ of energy will take you in an electric compared to what a kJ will take you in an ICE is rather surprising. Almost double.

Corn Ethanol creates more food than Corn alone does. For that reason alone it is a winner. Corn is fed to livestock. Livestock evolved as foragers, not raw corn eaters. Animals eating corn emit methane gas & pass most of the nourishment of the corn out into manure that emits methane & pollutes water. Methane is 15 times worse on the environment as CO2. Ethanol plants grind, cook & use enzymes to breakdown corn into energy & protein. Ethanol plants turn all the stuff in corn that animals emit into the atmosphere as methane, into Ethanol before feeding it. The Corn Ethanol Plant by-product is DDG livestock feed that grows animals faster than corn or grass does. The fact is if you are in livestock production, you can not be competitive unless you are feeding Ethanol DDG Feed! Also ethanol plants run on waste heat from power plants & steel mills. They do not consume raw energy to generate Ethanol. The real EROEI for Corn Ethanol is 3 to 1.

Interesting. Have you links for this. I am interested, as it counters what I have heard elsewhere. If what you are stating is true for most corn ethanol production, then I have been mistaken in my opposition to it.

The information is proprietary but Poet Ethanol described it this way. Steel refineries waste heat create steam that spins a turbine that generates electricity that powers the grid & ethanol plant. The exhaust from the steam turbine heats the mash at the ethanol plant. The waste heat from the ethanol plant heats greenhouses that grow food. The ethanol mash is only heated for fermentation & no longer heated to a boil to distill it. Ethanol is evacuated from the mash.

The Broin plant I was involved with years ago before it became Poet Ethanol was built next to a Natural Gas Turbine Power plant. The waste heat from the Power plants NG Turbine went to a boiler & made steam to power a steam turbine that generated power for the grid & power plant. The heat from boiler vent stack & exhausted steam from turbine heated the mash for fermentation & ethanol was evacuated from the mash. Heat from the mash heated buildings.

Waste gas from steel mills to power jets.

Ethanol DDG Feed Facts

The Ever-Increasing Efficiency of Ethanol Production