pknopp
Diamond Member
- Jul 22, 2019
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But what is the statute of limitations that self flagellation can be imposed on oneself? It is not going to change anything although we all realize what was. I do not see anyone who has pure guilt giving up all their wealth to others who have very little domestically and in foreign lands. The self flagellation continues unabated though.Only in a few cases. No nation is without some guilt in international affairs, or even domestic affairs. In ours, we had slavery, but so too did every other region of the globe in the past. It was a more primitive mentality then.World War I: A Serbian Nationalist and European defense treaties got that war going. We entered into it late.It's the United States starting the wars, overthrowing the governments of other countries and killing tens of thousands.
We have no moral standing to be condemning anyone .
World War II: Germany started that war in September of 1939. We didn't get declare war until Japan declared it an ally of Germany and attacked us.
Korean War: North Korea invaded South Korea and the United Nations sent in troops, we were included. We're still there because we have a defense treaty with the South Korean government.
Vietnam War: There you have me. Our entry into this conflict was built on a lie, however, to be fair, the non-Communist government in Vietnam wanted help to not be forced into Communism. We only pulled out due to US public pressure. The intentions to help a people not be forced into Communism was well intentioned.
Lebanon: We were part of a Multi-National Peace Keeping Force, not fighting a war.
Operation Desert Shield (Saudi Arabia) Libya attacked Kuwait, took their airfields and began amassing troops on Saudi Arabia's border. Saudi Arabia's government requested our military assistance and as both Kuwait and Saudi Arabia were major oil importers to the US, it was in our National Security interest to agree to go in militarily. After the Libyans were thrown out, no-fly zones were placed on Libya to keep a buffer zone between them and Kuwait.
Haiti: Operation Uphold Democracy was implemented, sending in 20,000 troops to re-install the Democratically elected president and oust a military junta that had taken over.
Panama: The Panamanian government confined US students to the school they were attending and Noriega was aiding in drug trafficking, so a force was sent in to retrieve the students and get Noriega.
Iraq: Operation Desert Storm. I have very mixed feelings about this one. The US CIA aided in getting Hussein into power. He tortured and killed a lot of Iraqis. However, on the other side, those that wanted him out were the Shiites. We got him into power because the ruler at the time, was pro-Communism. It was sort of a damned if you do get involved and damned if you don't. Although, I think in the long term, we should have just stayed out of it completely, but that's hindsight. You can't go back and have a do over.
Bosnia: NATO, which we are a part of pressured Bosnia to stop attacking civilian targets, they refused and NATO went in, and since NATO goes in, we have to go along. That's what treaties are about.
Afghanistan: Osama bin Laden orchestrated the attacks that brought down the World Trade Center and struck the Pentagon. Per his statement, he did so because infidels were in his homeland of Saudi Arabia. Well, Saudi Arabia requested us there to curtail Hussein's aggression. He told his followers that he could not rest until there were no more infidels. He was a follower of the Muslim Brotherhood.
He left Saudi Arabia and Pakistan and went into Afghanistan. The US demanded that the then Taliban government turn him over to the US for prosecution. The Taliban, following Afghani custom, refused to turn a guest over to a foreign government for prosecution, especially an infidel nation.
They said, "if you want him, come try and take him." They were keenly aware that no nation had ever conquered them, they had forced the Russians out and felt confident that the same would hold true. So, we accepted their challenge. Hey, when you're given a challenge like that, go for it.
The Afghani's that had been allied with the Russians, wanted their government back, so sided with the US and through our combined efforts, have gotten the original government, back in Kabul, albeit tenuously. Once we killed bin Laden and his main followers, we should have then pulled out, but we're still bogged down there. That's one that needs to end.
Now, there have been numerous small interventions, mostly in the form of advisors for established governments or some rebel forces, but those are about the only actual wars that involved massive troops.
A fair amount of nations get involved in foreign conflicts. Mankind has been killing his fellow humans since he first picked up a rock or other blunt or sharp implement and it isn't going to end until mankind ceases to exist on the planet, no matter what you or I wish.
So as you note, we have no moral standing in condemning others.
Again in the end you note that we are no better......
My point is that we need to quit pretending we are better. We are not.