No Labels + more primary challenges are needed for better elections

[Tumblin Tumbleweed]

So what do you consider to NOT be blind partisan nonsense?

Being open to different visions for America.

 

[Foxfyre]

Then to me, you are a party person.

No doubt. But have a nice day anyway.

 

[Independent thinker]

You can’t get more challengers and reduce the influence of parties without solving the money hurdle problem. Without being beholden to someone, a candidate can’t usually get the kind of funding they need, so you get party stalwarts or narcissistic billionaires.

Or you get an individual rich enough by themselves of buying the election.

 

[Independent thinker]

If he’d concentrated on ‘repeal and replace’ instead of a border wall, he might still be president.

Had nothing to do with that. He would have easily won re-election but for the pandemic. Interesting though that Democrats ran against Trump's handling of the pandemic in 2020 and yet just the other day Gavin Newsome admitted that if we had known then what we know now, we would have handled the pandemic differently. Kind of interesting, isn't it? Sounds like they weren't happy with the their own handling of the pandemic, which they did opposite of what Trump was doing. Food for thought.

Oh, by the way, even many Democrats are now attacking Biden's handling of the border.

 

[Independent thinker]

This is the only no label I want

View attachment 827509

Well, at least it isn't a Bud Light!

 

[Independent thinker]

If we had a free and objective press, Biden would have gotten maybe 10% of the vote. But we don't. So those who want to believe Trump was terrible were told that again and again and again by a dishonest MSM and knew little or nothing of what he actually accomplished for all of us.

Yes. It was the media who influenced and stole the election.

 

[Foxfyre]

Being open to different visions for America.

So are you saying that those of us who want a strong, secure, free, prosperous American with choices, options, opportunity, liberty for all are narrow minded, short sighted, blind partisans?

Are you saying that those of us who want our children educated instead of indoctrinated, who don't want our country overrun and our resources drained via an open border, who don't want endless wars and value world peace, who believe a strong prosperous America is the best opportunity the world has for a better world, who value the concept of our Constitution that limits the scope and authority of federal government are narrow minded, short sighted, blind partisans?

There will always be those who chose to be governed instead of governing themselves. But America was founded on the principle of unalienable rights and a government that recognized and secured those for the people so, short of treading on another's rights to do the same, each person could think, believe, speak, live as he/she chose. I believe that spirit, that vision, is still there. If that makes me a narrow minded, short sighted, blind partisan, well all I can say to that is bless your heart.

 

[LeroyDumonde]

Trump is equally hated by Democrats and old guard Republicans because he actually did what he said he would do, something we haven't seen for quite some time. If he didn't succeed on the first try he kept trying until he found a solution, something else American politicians almost never do. They try once and if they fail they put that on the shelf with a shrug and a "I tried."

He didn't drain the swamp, lock her up, get the US out of NATO, or build the wall. What exactly did he do that he promised that he would do?

 

[Independent thinker]

The obnoxiousness is part of the draw, IMO.

In my completely unscientific query of my Trumpster bar customers, his willingness to punch back at people who go after him charted very high in the reasons that he was supported.

Not saying it's right or wrong, it's just the answer I often got.

Yup. Americans are sick and tired of president's having to run every word through their handlers first before "acting presidential" and lying through their teeth. It was very refreshing to hear someone actually say what they thought before running it by someone else first. The truth is refreshing.

 

[LeroyDumonde]

If a third party can't win then they have zero influence over who is elected, which is what has already been happening for decades and even centuries. And, political platforms are nothing but a pile of horse shit.

The theory is that the third party will chip away at votes that would otherwise go to one of the duopoly parties. This will force that party to move towards the third party. Well, in theory. In reality there are more untapped votes in the center than the fringes so third parties just push the parties towards the corrupt and useless center.

 

[Independent thinker]

Being open to different visions for America.

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yeah, you mean like the inclusive party not being inclusive at all? Since when are they open to different visions for America? They have one vision and one vision only, their vision.

 

[Oddball]

The theory is that the third party will chip away at votes that would otherwise go to one of the duopoly parties. This will force that party to move towards the third party. Well, in theory. In reality there are more untapped votes in the center than the fringes so third parties just push the parties towards the corrupt and useless center.

There are vastly more votes to be had among the abstainers.

 

[Foxfyre]

Yes. It was the media who influenced and stole the election.

They were a primary factor for sure.

 

[Oddball]

Yes, many hard core Patriots like and defend his demeanor. But far too many tend to rate stage presence, demeanor, personality as being more important as more difficult things to quantify like policy, vision, intuition, aptitude, agenda. And to those people who are more shallow in their perspective tend to find Trump's demeanor off putting.

Millions find the demeanor of vague, vacillating shoe salesmen like Mitt Romney off putting.

 

[Independent thinker]

He didn't drain the swamp, lock her up, get the US out of NATO, or build the wall. What exactly did he do that he promised that he would do?

So now you admit there is a swamp? Trump was the better man and made a conscious decision to not "lock her up", which I'm sure he regrets now. By the way, he never actually promised he would lock her up. And, he never promised to get out of NATO. He promised to make them pay their fair share and made great strides toward that. He promised to make us energy independent and made great strides toward that. He did build some wall but it was you Democrats who fought hard to stop him. Do you even remember "resist 45"? And, Trump lowered taxes for just about everyone except for the rich in blue states, which Democrats have fought hard to re-instate because they want to restore the rich's tax breaks.

 

[Independent thinker]

The theory is that the third party will chip away at votes that would otherwise go to one of the duopoly parties. This will force that party to move towards the third party. Well, in theory. In reality there are more untapped votes in the center than the fringes so third parties just push the parties towards the corrupt and useless center.

Glad you used the word "theory". In case you didn't realize, politicians lie to get votes and then turn around and do what they wanted in the first place after winning. So, third parties don't change the other parties at all, except maybe in words only, not deeds.

 

[Foxfyre]

He didn't drain the swamp, lock her up, get the US out of NATO, or build the wall. What exactly did he do that he promised that he would do?

He promised prosperity. He delivered.
He promised border security. He delivered.
He promised no endless wars. He delivered and in the process gave us the closest thing to world peace any of us have experienced in our lifetimes.
He promised reduced needless regulation and more liberty. He delivered.
He did not promise to take us out of NATO but said he would look at that. He chose to require NATO members to pay their fair share of the cost and they did that at least much more than they had previously.
He did not promise to 'lock up Hillary' and didn't spend his time in office going after political opponents. That was a good thing.
He was building the wall and would have completed it if he had been re-elected.
Trump's policies accomplished U.S. energy independence in 2019 for the first time since 1957.
Clinton, Bush 43, Obama all campaigned on moving the U.S. embassy to Jerusalem and none made any attempt to do so. Trump did it.

He didn't drain the swamp because he had no idea how deep and virulent it went. I think with a second term and GOP majority he might have accomplished a lot toward that end.

There is more, but that is the gist.

 

[Foxfyre]

Millions find the demeanor of vague, vacillating shoe salesmen like Mitt Romney off putting.

Mitt Romney however has no power without the support of his colleagues and he doesn't get that support from more than a few. But yes. I think Romney to be a contemptible person and wouldn't vote for him for dog catcher at this point. Not because of his demeanor. But because of his policy actions.

 

[LeroyDumonde]

So now you admit there is a swamp?

Now? I've known about the swamp since 1990.

Trump was the better man and made a conscious decision to not "lock her up", which I'm sure he regrets now.

That's not being the better man. That's enabling the swamp.

By the way, he never actually promised he would lock her up.

And, he never promised to get out of NATO. He promised to make them pay their fair share and made great strides toward that.

I can't find video of him saying that he would, so I'll retract the claim.

He promised to make us energy independent and made great strides toward that. He did build some wall but it was you Democrats who fought hard to stop him.

I'm not a Democrat and have never been a Democrat. Short of having an accident where I become brain damaged I'll never be a Democrat. I may vote Democrat after I'm dead.

Do you even remember "resist 45"?

I remember Republicans controlling both chambers of Congress while Trump was President and he did nothing about building the wall. He only started talking about it after Democrats controlled the House and there was no chance of getting funding.

And, Trump lowered taxes for just about everyone except for the rich in blue states, which Democrats have fought hard to re-instate because they want to restore the rich's tax breaks.

Yeah, Trump lowered my taxes by like $10 per week. Government spending went way up though.

 

[pknopp]

Yes. It was the media who influenced and stole the election.

Why didn't they do so in 2016?