Nobody needs an AK47 with a 30 round magazine

[2aguy]

So again...11-12,000 murders per year vs. 250-375,000 (as an average number) crimes stopped and lives saved by guns...

Run those numbers and you can see that guns in the hands of law abiding, regular people save lives and stop crime...far more than they are used to murder innocent people...

Fix the socio-economic problems created by the democrats running the 24 most violent cities in the country and those numbers will change...

 

[2aguy]

As I've already demonstrated, current Second Amendment jurisprudence does not comport with the HellerCourt's intent as to the regulation of firearms, where measures such as the SAFE Act will likely be invalidated as un-Constitutional.

You do realize that both the Heller and Mcdonald decisions were only 5-4 decisions...and one more liberal justice appointed by a liberal to moderate President and both of those would have gone against the 2nd Amendment...so again...the fight needs to be fought at all levels...especially with regular people who vote but don't always pay attention to the particulars of the intent of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights...

 

[blackhawk]

You know I'm more than capable of deciding for myself what type of gun and magazine I need.

 

[2aguy]

And here we go as to why it is more than just defending the right to keep and bear arms in court...

Poll: Chicago Residents Feel Less Safe with Concealed Carry Legal - The Truth About Guns

According to the Chicago Tribune, 55 percent of poll-takers said they felt “less safe” with the law permitting licensed gun owners to bear hidden weapons in public. Meanwhile, 15 percent said they felt “more safe” and 30 percent said they were indifferent.

The numbers coincide with a rise in Chicago shootings this summer — headline-making cases include the tragic death of 11-year-old Shamiya Adams — and a decline in Mayor Rahm Emanuel’s job approval rating. The Trib reported last week that his rating slipped from 50 percent around this time last year to a current low of 35 percent, revealing significant dissatisfaction with how the incumbent Democrat — up for re-election this February — is handling the city’s myriad problems, crime being one of them. The mayor blames “economic stress” for his poor reviews.

There are two problems here.

First, despite Chicago residents having been conditioned over decades to fear “concealed carry killers” thanks to the civilian disarmament extremist crowd, people with a concealed carry permit are FAR less likely to commit a murder than even the police. In reality, Chicago citizens would be more justified in their lack of perceived safety if Rahm Emanuel put more cops on the streets as opposed to legalized concealed carry, but the population has been so well conditioned to think that all guns are evil and all gun owners are criminals that their perception of the situation in no way matches up with reality.

The second issue is that the NBC article conveniently correlates the availability of concealed carry permits with a “rise in Chicago shootings this summer.” I’ll give you a hint: no one involved in those incidents had a concealed carry permit. If someone with a legal concealed handgun permit went on a shooting spree in Chicago we’d hear about it non-stop from the Moms Demand Action crowd, but they have been oddly radio silent on this issue. NBC, just like the gun control establishment, believes that guns cause crime, and if we could just remove all firearms from the world then we would have finally achieved that utopian ideal where everyone is naturally good and kind to each other.

These people vote...they empower politicians who create laws...and they sit in the Senate and confirm judicial appointments to the federal bench...

 

[2aguy]

Some more info. on defensive gun use...

Debunking the "Pro-Gun Myth" Debunker - Part Deux - The Truth About Guns

I’m sure this was a simple oversight on his part, as was his failure to mention the DGU figure found by the C-L study. These two stalwarts of gun control, Drs. Cook and Ludwig, determined that there were 1.5 million DGUs annually, which falls quite neatly into the K-G range of 830,000 to 2.5 million DGUs annually.

I imagine that some may find all these numbers dubious, probably preferring to rely on the numbers from the National Crime Victimization Surveys which show between 65,000 and 106,000 DGUs per year. Unfortunately for those hopeful doubters, the way the NCVS is structured means it seriously undercounts the number of DGUs. I’ll let Dr. Tom Smith, Senior Fellow and Director of the National Opinion Research Center at the University of Chicago explain:

First, it appears that the estimates of the NCVSs are too low. There are two chief reasons for this. First, only DGUs that are reported as part of a victim’s response to a specified crime are potentially covered. While most major felonies are covered by the NCVSs, a number of crimes such as trespassing, vandalism, and malicious mischief are not. DGUs in response to these and other events beyond the scope of the NCVSs are missed.

Second, the NCVSs do not directly inquire about DGUs. After a covered crime has been reported, the victim is asked if he or she “did or tried to do [anything] about the incident while it was going on.” Indirect questions that rely on a respondent volunteering a specific element as part of a broad and unfocused inquiry uniformly lead to undercounts of the particular of interest.

There’s another problem with the failure to directly inquire about DGUs: the DGU question is only triggered by someone saying they were the victim of a crime. If someone came towards me with a knife saying “Gimme your wallet,” and I put my hand on my weapon and replied “I don’t think so, Skippy,” causing the assailant to retreat, was I actually the victim of a crime?

Before I started researching these issues I would have told the NCVS interviewer that no, I hadn’t been the victim of a crime so they never would have learned of my DGU.

Now there are some problems with this number and their methodology. First their sample size was only 52% of the K-G study, second they only had 19 (or 0.8%) reported DGUs which met the criteria used in the K-G study. Thus a change of 1 reported DGU would change the final estimate by almost 79,000 DGUs. Third, on the subject of “academic” studies on guns, I am quite sure that Drs. Cook and Ludwig are very familiar with the phenomenon of bias[4]. Finally, since Walker’s link to the NIJ report on the Cook-Ludwig study goes right back to that crap-ass .txt file of the Cook-Ludwig study I can’t really address that accusation.

 

[rightwinger]

some retard disagreed with my claim that guns in private circulation has gone up but crime has gone down. I'd like them to post some statistics supporting their claim. I bet they cannot

The percentage of families who own guns has gone down dramatically. The number of guns owned by gun nuts has increased. The fact that you now own twelve guns where you used to own eight does nothing for the crime rate
Crime has gone down everywhere. In cities with tough gun laws and cities with lax gun laws. There is no correlation

that's horsecrap. its based on polls conducted by telephone and the one time someone called me and asked me if I owned firearms, I denied I had any. I was a federal prosecutor for over two decades and I also represented several big time gun dealers before I joined the DOJ and now that I am retired, I am constantly at two major dealers. The number of new people buying guns has increased dramatically over the last 20 years. applications at gun clubs have too. Two of Cincinnati's bigger gun clubs have a 3-4 year WAITING period to get in. 20 years ago, you got in the week you applied.

so you claim there is no correlation. but that cuts your own throat. we don't have to prove that gun ownership decrease crime since freedom is the default position. rather you gun hating statists have to prove that gun ownership increases crime and you cannot prove that.

so you lose an we win

Wow........personal opinion

Show some facts refuting that the percentage of families with guns is declining

 

[2aguy]

You know I'm more than capable of deciding for myself what type of gun and magazine I need.

Really? You don't think that it would be better if an individual with an irrational fear of guns made that decision for you?

 

[turtledude]

some retard disagreed with my claim that guns in private circulation has gone up but crime has gone down. I'd like them to post some statistics supporting their claim. I bet they cannot

The percentage of families who own guns has gone down dramatically. The number of guns owned by gun nuts has increased. The fact that you now own twelve guns where you used to own eight does nothing for the crime rate
Crime has gone down everywhere. In cities with tough gun laws and cities with lax gun laws. There is no correlation

that's horsecrap. its based on polls conducted by telephone and the one time someone called me and asked me if I owned firearms, I denied I had any. I was a federal prosecutor for over two decades and I also represented several big time gun dealers before I joined the DOJ and now that I am retired, I am constantly at two major dealers. The number of new people buying guns has increased dramatically over the last 20 years. applications at gun clubs have too. Two of Cincinnati's bigger gun clubs have a 3-4 year WAITING period to get in. 20 years ago, you got in the week you applied.

so you claim there is no correlation. but that cuts your own throat. we don't have to prove that gun ownership decrease crime since freedom is the default position. rather you gun hating statists have to prove that gun ownership increases crime and you cannot prove that.

so you lose an we win

Wow........personal opinion

Show some facts refuting that the percentage of families with guns is declining

show some facts that they are--you made a personal assertion. You are a well established liar on these issues
and those polls have no reality. many people don't answer them honestly because there are lots of anti gun scum out there

 

[M14 Shooter]

ntries.
Yawn.
Two questions, to again render your point moot:
-What % of the guns in the UK, Germany, Canada, Australia and France are used to commit murder?
-How does the murder rate in the US compare to the UK, Germnay, Canada, Australia and France once you back out the murders committed with guns?

1) A lot lower than the US

Show this to be true. Post numbers and citations.

2) Huh?

I didn't think you'd get it.
When you back the gun-related murders out of the US murder rate, you'll find a number as large as if not larger that the total murder rate of those other countries. Conclusion?

er, no, you don't get it. I like how you didn't quote all the post. Why WOULDN'T I include the murder rate including guns. This is a gun thread and murder rates are part and parcel of it.

Sigh.
The US murder rate w/o guns is as high or higher that their total murder rates.
There's a reason for that, and it doesn't have anything to do with the differences in gun control laws between countries.

As to your first question:
Per 100,000
France 0.06
Germany 0.14
New Zealand 0.16
Australia 0.19
Canada 0.51
US 2.97

This is is by population, not the % of guns used for murder, and so does not answer my question.

According to your source, the % of guns in each country NOT used to commit murder each year:

United States	99.99661
Australia	99.99902
Canada	99.99826
England	99.99879
France	99.99982
Germany	99.99937

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

As you can see, compared to these countries, the number of guns we have causes a -massive- problem.

 

[rightwinger]

You know I'm more than capable of deciding for myself what type of gun and magazine I need.

So is the guy who wants to shoot up a movie theater

 

[blackhawk]

You know I'm more than capable of deciding for myself what type of gun and magazine I need.

So is the guy who wants to shoot up a movie theater

So I get punished because of his insanity?

 

[rightwinger]

You know I'm more than capable of deciding for myself what type of gun and magazine I need.

So is the guy who wants to shoot up a movie theater

So I get punished because of his insanity?

How are you "punished" by not having a 30 round magazine for your AK47?

 

[The Rabbi]

You know I'm more than capable of deciding for myself what type of gun and magazine I need.

So is the guy who wants to shoot up a movie theater

So I get punished because of his insanity?

How are you "punished" by not having a 30 round magazine for your AK47?

Not allowing people something for no reason germane to them is punishing them. It's called "freedom." Look it up sometime, Comrade.

 

[turtledude]

You know I'm more than capable of deciding for myself what type of gun and magazine I need.

So is the guy who wants to shoot up a movie theater

So I get punished because of his insanity?

you get punished because the chances are you don't support far left nut cases like the faux right winger does. Anti gun douche bags pretend that banning guns will prevent people who commit capital murder from getting guns. In reality, crime control has nothing to do with their nefarious schemes. Its all about raging leftwing nut cases wanting to harass people who don't buy into their socialist schemes

 

[blackhawk]

You know I'm more than capable of deciding for myself what type of gun and magazine I need.

So is the guy who wants to shoot up a movie theater

So I get punished because of his insanity?

How are you "punished" by not having a 30 round magazine for your AK47?

By having the choice taken from me. If a deranged person is determined to shoot up a movie theater do you really a ban on 30 round magazines will stop them?

 

[turtledude]

You know I'm more than capable of deciding for myself what type of gun and magazine I need.

So is the guy who wants to shoot up a movie theater

So I get punished because of his insanity?

How are you "punished" by not having a 30 round magazine for your AK47?

By having the choice taken from me. If a deranged person is determined to shoot up a movie theater do you really a ban on 30 round magazines will stop them?

of course he doesn't but its easier to pretend it will than saying what he really believes

that being he wants to harass people who aren't leftwing moon bats

 

[2aguy]

The Santa Barbara killer used the legal ten round magazines to do his killing...so at least he didn't break that law...

 

[Dr Grump]

You know I'm more than capable of deciding for myself what type of gun and magazine I need.

So is the guy who wants to shoot up a movie theater

So I get punished because of his insanity?

How are you "punished" by not having a 30 round magazine for your AK47?

Not allowing people something for no reason germane to them is punishing them. It's called "freedom." Look it up sometime, Comrade.

Freedom has nothing to do with guns...

 

[rightwinger]

You know I'm more than capable of deciding for myself what type of gun and magazine I need.

So is the guy who wants to shoot up a movie theater

So I get punished because of his insanity?

How are you "punished" by not having a 30 round magazine for your AK47?

By having the choice taken from me. If a deranged person is determined to shoot up a movie theater do you really a ban on 30 round magazines will stop them?

As a society, we have to balance your right to have the toys of your choice vs the threat of those toys against society

You have no valid need of a 30 round semi auto rifle, while serial killers have demonstrated their need for that weapon

 

[The Rabbi]

You know I'm more than capable of deciding for myself what type of gun and magazine I need.

So is the guy who wants to shoot up a movie theater

So I get punished because of his insanity?

How are you "punished" by not having a 30 round magazine for your AK47?

Not allowing people something for no reason germane to them is punishing them. It's called "freedom." Look it up sometime, Comrade.

Freedom has nothing to do with guns...

Nor with newspapers, internet, Bibles, movies....
Yeah, if you say so, Comrade.
Freedom is slavery. Peace is war.