NYPD: 9 shooting bystander victims hit by police gunfire

[Luddly Neddite]

Their best was shooting nine innocent people, killing two of them, in an attempt to hit one guy?

The bar is apparently set very low to be an NYPD officer these days.

Actually, if you pay attention, you'll see that every cop shooting, where there is a large number of rounds expended, there will be relatively few that hit their target.

Watch the stories - you'll read some amazing numbers. Like 60 rounds fired, 15 hits.

Just goes to show the folly of the gun nuts thinking they can do better.

Cops are trained and retrained constantly but, when faced with being shot at or with having to actually shoot at a human being, they find its not as easy as the guns say it is.

The gun nuts will swagger and brag that they would take someone down if they dared touch their TV but the facts don't bear this out.

Cops are also trained to handle the aftermath of shooting a human being. Nonetheless, cops have a hard time dealing with it. And, if the big talking gun nuts think differently, they're bragging about something they know nothing about.

 

[Dick Tuck]

Those cops certainly weren't trained marksmen. No problem with them shooting the guy, but a big problem with them emptying their clips in a crowded area. SOP for most cops is to let the perp walk if it puts civilians in danger. I'll watch for the the law suits that follow.

 

[Dick Tuck]

Only, the NYPD budget increased.

Hmmmm.

Idiot.

Good for NYPD..........but you dont read much do you. Because the entire rest of the country seems to be modeling exactly what I explained. Dont believe me? Believe USA Today's story: Police training halts as agencies face budget cuts - USATODAY.com

State budgets for everything are down. In case you haven't noticed, the country HAS no money.

Corporate profits are at a record high.

 

[bucs90]

Their best was shooting nine innocent people, killing two of them, in an attempt to hit one guy?

The bar is apparently set very low to be an NYPD officer these days.

Actually, if you pay attention, you'll see that every cop shooting, where there is a large number of rounds expended, there will be relatively few that hit their target.

Watch the stories - you'll read some amazing numbers. Like 60 rounds fired, 15 hits.

Just goes to show the folly of the gun nuts thinking they can do better.

Cops are trained and retrained constantly but, when faced with being shot at or with having to actually shoot at a human being, they find its not as easy as the guns say it is.

The gun nuts will swagger and brag that they would take someone down if they dared touch their TV but the facts don't bear this out.

Cops are also trained to handle the aftermath of shooting a human being. Nonetheless, cops have a hard time dealing with it. And, if the big talking gun nuts think differently, they're bragging about something they know nothing about.

Exactly right. Thats why the military uses fully automatic weapons. Its fucking hard to hit a human, moving target.

Shooting a person is something 99% of cops hope they never have to do. As hard as I'm sure it is in a war, at least thats a true enemy. For most cops who must do it, it's a fellow American who is committing a horrible crime.

Too many gun nuts watch too much TV, and have no fucking clue how they'd act under fire.

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Good for NYPD..........but you dont read much do you. Because the entire rest of the country seems to be modeling exactly what I explained. Dont believe me? Believe USA Today's story: Police training halts as agencies face budget cuts - USATODAY.com

State budgets for everything are down. In case you haven't noticed, the country HAS no money.

Corporate profits are at a record high.

Mitt (rove/Norquist) say to just raise local and state taxes, along with fed taxes.

Lower the taxes for his 1% cronies who will continue to invest in other countries and all will be well.

Just like it was for ReaganBushBush.

ReaganBushDebt.org

 

[Si modo]

I smell lawsuits from those hit.

 

[bucs90]

Good for NYPD..........but you dont read much do you. Because the entire rest of the country seems to be modeling exactly what I explained. Dont believe me? Believe USA Today's story: Police training halts as agencies face budget cuts - USATODAY.com

State budgets for everything are down. In case you haven't noticed, the country HAS no money.

Corporate profits are at a record high.

Yep. And I sure dont see these heroes in the private sector donating any of that to police training budgets to train the very cops who protect them.

EXCEPT for one great American: Actor David Spade bought something like 100 AR15 patrol rifles for the Phoenix PD when he learned they didnt' have them, yet, were encountering heavily armed MExican cartel gangs. He didn't want attention, but they publicized it in his honor anyway. Was 3-4 years ago I think. But anyway, he still should get the credit for giving to his community.

 

[Dick Tuck]

I smell lawsuits from those hit.

If I were one of the bystanders, I'd be calling a lawyer. 9 civilians shot to bring down a suspect 10 feet away?

 

[9thIDdoc]

Imagine how many pedestrians would have been hit if everyone around there had guns on them...

Were there any pedestrians left or did the cops tag em all? 14 shots and 10 hits on bystanders. Thank God the pros were there! Pity the only one there who could shoot was the perp.

Yeah, if only there had been a bunch of amateurs, all wanting to be Mighty Mouse swooping down to be The Hero Of The Day.

How many hundreds of bodies would have been lying around bleeding in the streets.

BTW, why is this in "politics"?

The purp was an amateur and it appears he didn't hit anybody he didn't intend to. Why shouldn't we expect the pros to do almost as well? Most people couldn't manage to hit that many bystanders on purpose.

 

[MikeK]

This situation brings to mind the infamous "41 shots" incident in which a Guinean immigrant, who had done nothing, was struck 19 times at five feet distance and killed when 41 shots were fired at him by four plainclothes New York City cops who mistook him for a suspected rapist and approached him in the vestibule of an apartment building. The man had reached into his pocket and withdrew a black key case which one of the cops mistook for a gun and opened fire, prompting the other three cops to instinctually do the same.

The publicity given that incident by some civil rights organizations made it seem like a bunch of trigger-happy cops decided to open up on this guy for the hell of it but I don't believe that was the situation at all. I blame the incident on two major factors, 1) lack of training in approach tactics, and 2) replacing the 6-shot revolver with 15-shot automatic pistols as the standard duty weapon for all standard patrol situations.

Not only is the 15-shot automatic overkill for most patrol duties the extended capacity tends to readjust the response orientation of a shooter from focusing on accurately placed shots to pumping the trigger and relying on firepower in place of accurate placement. This is a tendency I was trained to avoid by instructors at the Marine Corps rifle range at Parris Island where I learned to shoot the semi-automatic M-1 Garand, which had replaced the bolt-action (single shot) 1903 Springfield.

I was conditioned to resist the impulse to pump out eight rounds as fast as I could pull the trigger and to concentrate on accuracy by controlling each shot as carefully as circumstances allowed. I believe this latest New York City incident is another example of impulsive "spraying," as in the "41 shots" incident, rather than focused and controlled individual shots. This tendency is subconsciously encouraged when the shooter has fifteen rounds in his weapon. He can afford to be less cautious about conserving firepower than he would be with the six-round revolver.

While the 15-shot automatic pistol is appropriate for certain high-risk patrol situations I don't believe it is necessary (or appropriate) for such ordinary situations as daytime patrol duty in Midtown Manhattan -- or when four plainclothes patrolmen are tracking a suspected rapist. In fact, I believe the old faithful Smith & Wesson .38 with a couple of speed loaders* on the belt is perfectly adequate for at least 90% of all patrol situations in the NYC area.

I believe transition to the 15 shot Berettas and Glocks as standard issue has been a stage in the militarization of domestic police and thus far the consequences outweigh the presumptive but unproven advantage.

 

[IGetItAlready]

All nine people wounded during a dramatic confrontation between police and a gunman outside the Empire State Building were struck by bullets fired by the two officers, police said Saturday, citing ballistics evidence.

The veteran patrolmen who opened fire on the suit-wearing gunman, Jeffrey Johnson, had only an instant to react when he whirled and pointed a .45-caliber pistol as they approached him from behind on a busy sidewalk


Read more: NYPD: 9 shooting bystander victims hit by police gunfire | Fox News

Nine bystanders wounded in an attempt to bring down one nut?
Sounds like the NYPD needs to mandate a little more range time.

 

[Si modo]

I smell lawsuits from those hit.

If I were one of the bystanders, I'd be calling a lawyer. 9 civilians shot to bring down a suspect 10 feet away?

Yup. And did you see that one of the cops had previously brought a suit against the NYPD because he was reprimanded for not meeting an "arrest quota"?

Seems pretty likely that cop had get-the-perp-at-all-costs weighing heavily on his mind when he decided to shoot.

"Arrest quotas"? I'm thinking those are NOT a good idea to have as policy.

 

[Dick Tuck]

I smell lawsuits from those hit.

If I were one of the bystanders, I'd be calling a lawyer. 9 civilians shot to bring down a suspect 10 feet away?

Yup. And did you see that one of the cops had previously brought a suit against the NYPD because he was reprimanded for not meeting an "arrest quota"?

Seems pretty likely that cop had get-the-perp-at-all-costs weighing heavily on his mind when he decided to shoot.

"Arrest quotas"? I'm thinking those are NOT a good idea to have as policy.

And what does that have to do with the fact that 9 people were shot, to bring down a scumbag 10 feet away? You're really digging deep up your ass to bring this up as an excuse for police stupidity.

 

[Noomi]

Imagine how many pedestrians would have been hit if everyone around there had guns on them...

But, but - the bad guy would have killed! Who cares if innocent people were caught in the crossfire? Who cares if everyone tried to play hero? The bad guy is dead!

...I hope the victims are now okay, and I hope the NYPD officers go back to the academy to learn how to shoot straight.

 

[paulitician]

Imagine how many pedestrians would have been hit if everyone around there had guns on them...

Were there any pedestrians left or did the cops tag em all? 14 shots and 10 hits on bystanders. Thank God the pros were there! Pity the only one there who could shoot was the perp.

They all went back to the gym, fired some Dianabol, and jerked each other off since they actually got to shoot a real human.

Sadly, this is probably very close to reality. Our Police Force has been given far too much power. But that's what is to be expected in a Police State. And that's what America is currently. It is the sad reality.

 

[auditor0007]

All nine people wounded during a dramatic confrontation between police and a gunman outside the Empire State Building were struck by bullets fired by the two officers, police said Saturday, citing ballistics evidence.

The veteran patrolmen who opened fire on the suit-wearing gunman, Jeffrey Johnson, had only an instant to react when he whirled and pointed a .45-caliber pistol as they approached him from behind on a busy sidewalk


Read more: NYPD: 9 shooting bystander victims hit by police gunfire | Fox News

This is why we need more people carrying guns, because they can shoot better than the police. The outcome here would have been much better had fifty armed citizens opened fire on this guy all at once.

 

[Politico]

If there is any justice all the victims will get massive payouts.

This is why we need more people carrying guns, because they can shoot better than the police.

Yeah umm.......no...

 

[paulitician]

Fuck em, they shouldn't have been there. Next time they should just stay home. Then they won't run into any more Gestapo bullets. It's for their own good too, and it's for the childen. And so on and so forth...

 

[Luddly Neddite]

All nine people wounded during a dramatic confrontation between police and a gunman outside the Empire State Building were struck by bullets fired by the two officers, police said Saturday, citing ballistics evidence.

The veteran patrolmen who opened fire on the suit-wearing gunman, Jeffrey Johnson, had only an instant to react when he whirled and pointed a .45-caliber pistol as they approached him from behind on a busy sidewalk


Read more: NYPD: 9 shooting bystander victims hit by police gunfire | Fox News

This is why we need more people carrying guns, because they can shoot better than the police. The outcome here would have been much better had fifty armed citizens opened fire on this guy all at once.

There is not reason to believe that and plenty of reason to disbelieve it. Read the thread ...

 

[initforme]

"The outcome here would have been much better had fifty armed citizens opened fire on this guy all at once."

50 armed citizens couldnt hit anything except each other. From what I observe the average armed citizen who thinks they know how to shoot would fill their shorts long before they could actaully aim.
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