Obama moves red line in Syria

[blackhawk]

What were the stated consequences of crossing the red line?

Apparently, the support for the Assad regime is still strong, and might be strengthening, because of concern within the country about the Islamist factions taking over the rebels.

To the best of my memory there were none.

 

[Katzndogz]

What were the stated consequences of crossing the red line?

Apparently, the support for the Assad regime is still strong, and might be strengthening, because of concern within the country about the Islamist factions taking over the rebels.

To the best of my memory there were none.

obama was going to frown and call them racists.

 

[idb]

What were the stated consequences of crossing the red line?

Apparently, the support for the Assad regime is still strong, and might be strengthening, because of concern within the country about the Islamist factions taking over the rebels.

Hezbollah has announced that they will step in and actively fight against a military coup.

It's a hell of a mess.

 

[idb]

What were the stated consequences of crossing the red line?

Apparently, the support for the Assad regime is still strong, and might be strengthening, because of concern within the country about the Islamist factions taking over the rebels.

To the best of my memory there were none.

I guess he's got a broad range of options then.
Military action is only one.

 

[blackhawk]

What were the stated consequences of crossing the red line?

Apparently, the support for the Assad regime is still strong, and might be strengthening, because of concern within the country about the Islamist factions taking over the rebels.

To the best of my memory there were none.

I guess he's got a broad range of options then.
Military action is only one.

What options? Military action against who as I pointed out in a previous post you can't tell friend from foe in Syria now. A no fly zone what part of Syria would that be in and how would you enforce it given Syria has strong anti air defenses? Arming the rebels which ones goes to back to friend or foe and being able to tell the difference sanctions I doubt it troops on the ground or peacekeepers I don't see that happening. The reality is there is nothing the west can about Syria now the politicians will say all the things they are expected to say but at this point talk is all they can do.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

What were the stated consequences of crossing the red line?

Apparently, the support for the Assad regime is still strong, and might be strengthening, because of concern within the country about the Islamist factions taking over the rebels.

Hezbollah has announced that they will step in and actively fight against a military coup.

It's a hell of a mess.

Understatement of the year.

 

[dilloduck]

It's where the insanity of the entire world is currently being played out. Can we just stay out of it and let it smolder and die?

 

[idb]

To the best of my memory there were none.

I guess he's got a broad range of options then.
Military action is only one.

What options? Military action against who as I pointed out in a previous post you can't tell friend from foe in Syria now. A no fly zone what part of Syria would that be in and how would you enforce it given Syria has strong anti air defenses? Arming the rebels which ones goes to back to friend or foe and being able to tell the difference sanctions I doubt it troops on the ground or peacekeepers I don't see that happening. The reality is there is nothing the west can about Syria now the politicians will say all the things they are expected to say but at this point talk is all they can do.

I don't know, that's only one of the many reasons I'm not a diplomat or a military strategist.
But my point was that everyone is assuming that Obama meant military action when he spoke of the red line.
The situation has changed hugely so it seems rather clever of him that he didn't paint himself into that corner.

 

[blackhawk]

I guess he's got a broad range of options then.
Military action is only one.

What options? Military action against who as I pointed out in a previous post you can't tell friend from foe in Syria now. A no fly zone what part of Syria would that be in and how would you enforce it given Syria has strong anti air defenses? Arming the rebels which ones goes to back to friend or foe and being able to tell the difference sanctions I doubt it troops on the ground or peacekeepers I don't see that happening. The reality is there is nothing the west can about Syria now the politicians will say all the things they are expected to say but at this point talk is all they can do.

I don't know, that's only one of the many reasons I'm not a diplomat or a military strategist.
But my point was that everyone is assuming that Obama meant military action when he spoke of the red line.
The situation has changed hugely so it seems rather clever of him that he didn't paint himself into that corner.

The problem is he did paint himself into a corner while he may have other options anything short of military action will be seen as weak or indecisive people can debate if that is fair or accurate but it's almost sure to be the view of Assad and his supporters both in and outside of Syria and for any pro western or democracy forces in Syria that would seem to be a major morale killer.That's the problem with ultimatums if you don't follow through in a forceful way it tends to embolden those who they were given to I hope this won't happen but I won't be the least bit shocked if the Assad regime increases it's of chemical weapons now.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Yanno...................Jr. led us into war because he had a source (only 1 I might add) named "Curveball" who said there were WMD's in Iraq.

We invaded Iraq on that lie, and lots of brave military members (like around 4,000) lost their lives for a lie.

Good to know that Obama is waiting to find the truth before starting another war.

Quick question..................do we put the war with Syria on the credit card, or do we actually raise taxes to pay for it?

Jr. cut taxes after the war with Iraq started....................

 

[Politico]

Quick question.........................how are we going to mount an attack in Syria?

Seeing as we have no proof? I dunno.

 

[ABikerSailor]

Quick question.........................how are we going to mount an attack in Syria?

Seeing as we have no proof? I dunno.

And that is the reason I'm saying Obama is doing the right thing.

If Jr. was still in office, we'd have already sent troops and bombs.

 

[RandallFlagg]

Quick question.........................how are we going to mount an attack in Syria? Are we going to raise taxes to do it?

If we cut all funding to Planned Parenthood, Welfare, Medicare, Medicaid and force those who make too small a wage to pay taxes, to pay taxes anyway, I think we can swing it!

Hoe DARE you take away a "woman's right to choose".......

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Yanno...................Jr. led us into war because he had a source (only 1 I might add) named "Curveball" who said there were WMD's in Iraq.

We invaded Iraq on that lie, and lots of brave military members (like around 4,000) lost their lives for a lie.

Good to know that Obama is waiting to find the truth before starting another war.

Quick question..................do we put the war with Syria on the credit card, or do we actually raise taxes to pay for it?

Jr. cut taxes after the war with Iraq started....................

Lie.

 

[RandallFlagg]

What options? Military action against who as I pointed out in a previous post you can't tell friend from foe in Syria now. A no fly zone what part of Syria would that be in and how would you enforce it given Syria has strong anti air defenses? Arming the rebels which ones goes to back to friend or foe and being able to tell the difference sanctions I doubt it troops on the ground or peacekeepers I don't see that happening. The reality is there is nothing the west can about Syria now the politicians will say all the things they are expected to say but at this point talk is all they can do.

I don't know, that's only one of the many reasons I'm not a diplomat or a military strategist.
But my point was that everyone is assuming that Obama meant military action when he spoke of the red line.
The situation has changed hugely so it seems rather clever of him that he didn't paint himself into that corner.

The problem is he did paint himself into a corner while he may have other options anything short of military action will be seen as weak or indecisive people can debate if that is fair or accurate but it's almost sure to be the view of Assad and his supporters both in and outside of Syria and for any pro western or democracy forces in Syria that would seem to be a major morale killer.That's the problem with ultimatums if you don't follow through in a forceful way it tends to embolden those who they were given to I hope this won't happen but I won't be the least bit shocked if the Assad regime increases it's of chemical weapons now.

Correct. This is the logical progression of events when one party either (1) threatens a response or (2)implies a response will occur if certain conditions are met.

No one fears Obama as a man that will "do as he says". No one. The world figured Obama out after a short time into his first term. They neither fear him economically nor militarily. Obama is a talker and, to the rest of the world, that carries zero weight.

I'm quite sure that, at this point, Assad has stopped laughing at Obama's threats and will continue on his merry way.....

 

[Mertex]

It seems it is OK to use chemical weapons as long as you only do it a little bit.

What a surprise.

Obama Unveils New 'Red Line' for Syria's Chemical Weapons | Danger Room | Wired.com

If Conservatives get off the couch and sofas they occupied while cheering for the Iraq War Debacle, and join the military this time, I'll support a new war in Syria. Oh, and a War Tax on Conservatives too. Gotta pay for it.

I see no reason to go to war in Syria, which is why I thought drawing a red line was absurd.

That's only if you see the red line as indicative of declaring war, which is not necessarily the case. The red line may just indicate that they are on our radar, for now, which I'm fine with.

 

[RandallFlagg]

If Conservatives get off the couch and sofas they occupied while cheering for the Iraq War Debacle, and join the military this time, I'll support a new war in Syria. Oh, and a War Tax on Conservatives too. Gotta pay for it.

I see no reason to go to war in Syria, which is why I thought drawing a red line was absurd.

That's only if you see the red line as indicative of declaring war, which is not necessarily the case. The red line may just indicate that they are on our radar, for now, which I'm fine with.

Cool. So at what point do we decide to do something, ANYTHING?? After 50,000 people die? 100,000? 250,000? 1,000,000? Or do we just sit back and allow "nature" to take its course?

If I recall correctly, we sat on our collective butts, even after hearing of people being marched off to ovens in the late 30s. We just couldn't be bothered.....

 

[Mertex]

I see no reason to go to war in Syria, which is why I thought drawing a red line was absurd.

That's only if you see the red line as indicative of declaring war, which is not necessarily the case. The red line may just indicate that they are on our radar, for now, which I'm fine with.

Cool. So at what point do we decide to do something, ANYTHING?? After 50,000 people die? 100,000? 250,000? 1,000,000? Or do we just sit back and allow "nature" to take its course?

We certainly don't make up a lie and declare war. So, are you talking Americans or Syrians dying?

If I recall correctly, we sat on our collective butts, even after hearing of people being marched off to ovens in the late 30s. We just couldn't be bothered....

Yeah, we also lost 4000+ Americans and over 12,000 civilians invading Iraq, and they're still killing themselves. Should we have stayed there and babysit them for 100 years like McCain suggested?

 

[High_Gravity]

It seems it is OK to use chemical weapons as long as you only do it a little bit.

What a surprise.

Blink and you’ll miss it, but President Obama just revised and extended his “red line” for stopping Bashar Assad from using chemical weapons against Syrian civilians.
“We cannot stand by and permit the systematic use of weapons like chemical weapons on civilian populations,” Obama said today, per Reuters’ Jeff Mason. It was Obama’s first comments about what he acknowledged was a potential “game changer” since his White House acknowledged yesterday that U.S. intelligence considers reports of chemical weapons use in Syria credible.
The key word in that statement is systematic. The surprise White House acknowledgement, in a letter to senators yesterday, said that the Syrian regime used chemical weapons, particularly sarin gas “on a small scale.” Danger Room reported that the evidence underlying the U.S. intelligence assessment included blood samples that indicated the effects of sarin. Behind the scenes, as Danger Room has earlier reported, the Obama administration has spotted Assad prepping its chemical stocks for use last year, and attempted to block shipments of precursor chemicals.
The statement gives the president wiggle room — something Obama has wanted to preserve throughout the two-year Syrian civil war. Combined with Obama’s call for to investigate and substantiate the assessment of the chemical use, Obama has now implied it would take a widespread use of the chemicals to prompt the U.S. to involve itself more deeply in the rebel effort to overthrow Assad, which is the stated objective of U.S. Syria policy. Foreign Policy managing editor Blake Hounshell suspected yesterday that it would take a much larger use of chemical weapons by Assad to spur a U.S. military response. But even “systematic” use of chemical weapons begs the question of how much sarin and other deadly gasses Assad can use before Obama feels compelled to stop him.

Obama Unveils New 'Red Line' for Syria's Chemical Weapons | Danger Room | Wired.com

That is some pussy ass shit right there, going from no chemical weapons to some use is ok? god help us all.

 

[High_Gravity]

If he was never going to do anything, he shouldn't have said anything. Now we look weak.