Obama throws Wes Clark under the bus

[GHook93]

As Obama should! Clark's comments were low-ball sleezy politics.

 

[CSM]

Hey I give the guy credit he admitted he was mistaken.

It's not like we haven't all been wrong at some point and time.

Larkin did indeed publicly give me credit in this thread...just so ya know.

 

[GHook93]

I'm sorry, geniii, why do you think he talks about having been a POW in pretty much every speech?

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....

HE DOESN'T. Rather the media talks about it. McCain usually talks about thinks to help America. One thing that McCain consistently brings up is his once again sparkling record $0 taken for wasteful pork projects vs $90 million taken by Obama (and $22 million taken by Ron "the Fraud" Paul - just wanted to point that out).

 

[CSM]

The problem is that other than his POW status, they really aren't discussing McCain's qualifications. And, it was rightfully stated that getting shot out of a plane does not, in and of itself, qualify one for the presidency.

And that's ALL that was said... nothing more; nothing less. No one said he shouldn't be honored for his service. I'm pretty sure most of us think he should be.

Now, if we want to go into qualifications, McCain already said he doesn't "know much about economics" and he can't seem to tell the difference between Shi'a and Sunni. Oh right...and he also said judicial review of legislation shouldn't be allowed... oh, right, he only said that after Scalia's Heller decision.

He isn't saying that this week.

Now ya see...good old Wes made a point of stating that McCain did not have a wartime command and (according to Wes) never had to make "executive decisions". Sounds like good old Wes was setting criteria or standards for qualification to me. Reducing Clark's statements to one sound bite is really really oversimplification and very very misleading. If we are going to do that, why not just say that all Clark said was "Good evening..." and avoid this whole discussion?

 

[GHook93]

Wesley Clark is hardly an idiot...


Wesley Kanne Clark (born December 23, 1944) is a retired General of the United States Army. Clark was valedictorian of his class at West Point, was awarded a Rhodes Scholarship to the University of Oxford where he obtained a degree in PPE (Philosophy, Politics & Economics), and later graduated from the Command and General Staff College with a master's degree in military science. He spent 34 years in the Army and the Department of Defense, receiving many military decorations, several honorary knighthoods, and a Presidential Medal of Freedom.

Clark was assigned a position in the 1st Infantry Division and flew to Vietnam on May 21, 1969 during the U.S. involvement in the Vietnam War. He worked as a staff officer, collecting data and helping in operations planning, and was awarded the Bronze Star for his work with the staff. Clark was then given command of A Company, 1st Battalion, 16th Infantry of the 1st Infantry Division in January 1970. In February, only one month into his command, he was shot four times by a Viet Cong soldier with an AK-47. The wounded Clark shouted orders to his men, who counterattacked and defeated the Viet Cong force. Clark had injuries to his right shoulder, right hand, right hip, and right leg, and was sent to Valley Forge Army Hospital in Phoenixville, Pennsylvania to recuperate. He was awarded the Silver Star for his actions during the encounter.[20]

I 100% agree, don't call a person an idiot because you don't agree with them. Clark might have took a low-ball slimy shot, but he is anything but an idiot and I don't question his loyalty and love for USA.

 

[jillian]

Now ya see...good old Wes made a point of stating that McCain did not have a wartime command and (according to Wes) never had to make "executive decisions". Sounds like good old Wes was setting criteria or standards for qualification to me. Reducing Clark's statements to one sound bite is really really oversimplification and very very misleading. If we are going to do that, why not just say that all Clark said was "Good evening..." and avoid this whole discussion?

Did I reduce General Clark's statements to a soundbite? Or did the media?

Clark did nothing but point out that McCain's past, while entitling him to respect, doesn't entitle him to the oval office.

I'm not sure why you think that's SETTING criteria. I think it's just demystifying the candidate. I think that's fair. It didn't call his service into question in any way.

I do think his follow-up by hiring the swiftboater was pretty funny given his position on the swiftboat vets in 2004.

Just saying.

 

[Steerpike]

Clark's statement was just a poor personal attack. He could have worded it any other way he wanted. McCain hasn't, to my knowledge, stated that his getting shot down is a qualification for anything. Near as I can tell, he hardly ever mentions it. Clark's comments were just a gratuitous attack.

It was also a mistake. If Clark had any sense, he could have made the exact point about qualifications without causing this stink over his snide demeanor and choice of words, but Clark is an idiot, so this is what we get and Obama has to distance himself from the guy a little because of it.

 

[Charles_Main]

But Baby Bush did?

Anyone who pulled the lever for the ijit really has no standing to talk about qualifications.

RAFLMAO!!

Typical of Liberals, You think because I think Obama is not qualified, I must think Bush was.

Assuming you know what I think makes and ass out of u and me

I never said a word about Bush or his qualifications. all I said was Obama is not qualified and McCain is.

Just a reminder libs. BUSH IS NOT RUNNING

Charles

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Keep talkin' Weasel…it's all good…

…the more people hear about John McCain and how he flew dozens of missions in war, how he was captured and suffered for years as a patriot in service to his country, the more people will realize how little BO has served his country…don't think he was even a Boy Scout….being a leftist he probably hates Boy Scouts…he'd rather be friends with anti-Americans….despite his running around this week yakking up patriotism…Obama is going to come up real short in peoples eyes…

 

[jillian]

Typical of Liberals, You think because I think Obama is not qualified, I must think Bush was.

Assuming you know what I think makes and ass out of u and me

I never said a word about Bush or his qualifications. all I said was Obama is not qualified and McCain is.

Just a reminder libs. BUSH IS NOT RUNNING

Charles

Well, if McCain insists on running for a third bush term, I'm afraid the discussion is valid.

 

[Dr Grump]

Well, if McCain insists on running for a third bush term, I'm afraid the discussion is valid.

McCain is Bush lite (on the religious aspects). At least he appears to have a brain. However, Bush and his cabal have fucked it up so royally, you could have Mother Theresa running for the GoP against Obama and she'd still lose. Still say it would be a good idea to give the election to McCain because the Dems need more than 4 years to fix up Bush's mess and they'll end up wearing it via the neocons....

 

[jillian]

Keep talkin' Weasel…it's all good…

…the more people hear about John McCain and how he flew dozens of missions in war, how he was captured and suffered for years as a patriot in service to his country, the more people will realize how little BO has served his country…don't think he was even a Boy Scout….being a leftist he probably hates Boy Scouts…he'd rather be friends with anti-Americans….despite his running around this week yakking up patriotism…Obama is going to come up real short in peoples eyes…

You know, SE, my husband was an eagle scout. I can promise you he'd never allow our son to be a scout now because instead of actually teaching the kids anything, the scouts took it upon themselves to be gay bashers.

 

[jillian]

McCain is Bush lite (on the religious aspects). At least he appears to have a brain. However, Bush and his cabal have fucked it up so royally, you could have Mother Theresa running for the GoP against Obama and she'd still lose. Still say it would be a good idea to give the election to McCain because the Dems need more than 4 years to fix up Bush's mess and they'll end up wearing it via the neocons....

In 2000, I'd have voted for McCain. He knew the rabid religious right were the agents of intolerance; He was pro choice; He believed in the courts; For some reason, after what Karl Rove and Bush did to him with the push polls, he caved. It always made me wonder what Rove had on him.

But yeah.... the Dems are gonna need more than 4 years to undo Bush's mess.

Can't give the election to McCain. He's decided there's no such thing as judicial review now... oh wait... that was only until Scalia's gun ruling.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Well, if McCain insists on running for a third bush term, I'm afraid the discussion is valid.

You get stupider and stupider the closer we get to November. McCain does not support Bush policies and never has. That would be why he ran against him in 2000.

Remind us how Obama is safe because he is not gonna make decisions from others, yet it was just in the news he is courting religious groups right now. Evangelical groups to be exact. Wonder what he will "promise" them for their vote. I mean you keep claiming McCain sold out for religious votes.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

You know, SE, my husband was an eagle scout. I can promise you he'd never allow our son to be a scout now because instead of actually teaching the kids anything, the scouts took it upon themselves to be gay bashers.

Absolute BULLSHIT. They have a code and exclude Gays, as is their RIGHT to do. You don't like it? To damn bad. Last I checked this is still a kinda free country where one does NOT have to associate with people or groups they do not want to.

Bashing Gays, what a retarded thing to say. You are aware a good number of your Democrats are OPPOSED to Gay Marriage? I guess that means they too are Gay bashers, what ever are you to do Jillian?

 

[RetiredGySgt]

In 2000, I'd have voted for McCain. He knew the rabid religious right were the agents of intolerance; He was pro choice; He believed in the courts; For some reason, after what Karl Rove and Bush did to him with the push polls, he caved. It always made me wonder what Rove had on him.

But yeah.... the Dems are gonna need more than 4 years to undo Bush's mess.

Can't give the election to McCain. He's decided there's no such thing as judicial review now... oh wait... that was only until Scalia's gun ruling.

And you keep making that claim and have YET to back it up. I wonder why that is?

 

[politicsezine]

Obama... McCain... does it really matter?

We're probably still going to end up in a war with Iran anyway.

Even if either of them made serious efforts at diplomacy some terrorist shit will probably happen anyway, America will be forced to intervene and the next thing we know we'll get sucked into a long painful war that is both regrettable and economically destructive to America's present needs.

Which reminds me... why the hell do all the potential draft dodgers want to come to Canada? Isn't there any other countries you could go to? Sure, we can take some of you, but if the USA needs to draft civilians for a war in Iran (which has a combined military and militia strength of 12 million) they are going to need millions of soldiers to do the fighting. Which, considering how unpopular such a war would be, would mean millions of draft dodgers and they can't ALL come to Canada.

At the very least some of them should go to Mexico, Brazil or Europe. Canada won't necessarily be a safe place to run to this time around. The current Canadian government isn't very supportive of draft dodgers.

 

[jreeves]

Obama... McCain... does it really matter?

We're probably still going to end up in a war with Iran anyway.

Even if either of them made serious efforts at diplomacy some terrorist shit will probably happen anyway, America will be forced to intervene and the next thing we know we'll get sucked into a long painful war that is both regrettable and economically destructive to America's present needs.

Which reminds me... why the hell do all the potential draft dodgers want to come to Canada? Isn't there any other countries you could go to? Sure, we can take some of you, but if the USA needs to draft civilians for a war in Iran (which has a combined military and militia strength of 12 million) they are going to need millions of soldiers to do the fighting. Which, considering how unpopular such a war would be, would mean millions of draft dodgers and they can't ALL come to Canada.

At the very least some of them should go to Mexico, Brazil or Europe. Canada won't necessarily be a safe place to run to this time around. The current Canadian government isn't very supportive of draft dodgers.

Well this thread is about Wes Clarke's comments, maybe you should start a new thread instead of hijacking another thread that doesn't even remotely pertain to your post.

 

[Foxfyre]

I'm not at all convinced the Wes Clark was speaking purely for himself and without the sanction of the Obama campaign. As previously suggested, this happens entirely too often--some 'surrogate' says says something snotty and Obama immediately disavows the remark, but the media has already latched onto it and it's out there.

In the recent bruhaha over McCain's military record and what this does or does not merit as credentials for the office of POTUS, at least two rated talk show hosts today suggested that the Swiftboating of McCain has begun with Clark firing the first official volley. Because Obama can claim zero experience with the military or national defense issues, they figured his surrogates, however much he denies them, will be actively attempting to make McCain's military experience irrelevent.

In part the following NRO opinion piece relates to this

Tuesday, July 01, 2008
HORSERACE

Remembering What the Swift Boat Vets Actually Said

I'm not the first to make this point, but it seems the attacks on John McCain's war service stem from prominent Democrats completely misreading what happened with the Swift Boat Vets for Truth. The Democrats' conventional wisdom is that A) everything the group said was a lie and B) they attacked Kerry's wartime service.

Go back and reread what they charged. (Take a walk down memory lane from the Kerry Spot here, here and here and Byron's assessment of the impact here.) A lot of their stories came down to their word against John Kerry's. Some of the points of contention were inconclusive, and some of the reactions their comments triggered, like convention delegates wearing "purple heart band-aids" on the floor of the convention, were crass. But they scored several major points. The first was when they pointed out the impossibility of Kerry's story of "Christmas in Cambodia" that was "seared, seared" into his memory. When one of Kerry's oft-cited war stories had such a glaring impossibility at its heart (Richard Nixon wasn't president, and thus couldn't be denying bombing in Cambodia, on Christmas 1968) it raised doubts about all of his other accounts of the war.

Second, no Kerry supporter could dispute the candidate's postwar "Genghis Khan" testimony before Congress, which many Vietnam veterans saw as a betrayal. When it became clear that Kerry was referring to secondhand accounts, and had not himself seen soldiers cutting off heads and ears, many veterans saw that as reckless at best and most likely slander. I'd argue that this was the Swift Boat Vet argument that really gained traction, and I suspect many voters saw it as a situation that revealed Kerry's character.

Third, there were about 200 members of Swift Boat Vets for Truth. Maybe some of them had faulty memories, or were down-the-line Republicans, or just plain didn't like Kerry. But all of them? Many Americans looked at the sheer volume and detail of their stories of Kerry, and concluded that where there was smoke, there was most likely fire.

If we see hundreds of men who served with McCain come out and denounce him, the American people will reconsider their opinion of him, as well. But I would not hold my breath waiting for that to happen...
The Campaign Spot on National Review Online

 

[jillian]

And you keep making that claim and have YET to back it up. I wonder why that is?

Back what up, genius? McCain's prior positions? I've posted them before. Google McCain flip flop if you want the links again.

As for his commetns about judicial review.... he kept repeating them when the court said the legislature couldn't take away habeas corpus review. (yet another flip flop for McCain). don't you read a newspaper? watch the news?

he only STFU about that after Scalia's gun decision.

Or is your short term memory failing now?