Obama wants to raise the minimum wage when we're on the verge of a second recession?

[NYcarbineer]

Have you considered just because they aren't where you'd like them to be doesn't mean they're artifically low. They can't really be artificially low, (or high for that matter). The labor market in this country is mostly a free market, (though tilted slightly in the workers favor), meaning a market sets a rate it is by definition, fair.

So you believe that the problem in this country is that workers have too much advantage?

So things would be better if workers had even fewer rights, protections, and powers under the law?

lol

Once again the core principle of conservative economic policy appears:

the working class must be made poorer and weaker.

It isn't my problem that you have a problem being honest. Stating that labor has slight advantage over business in negotiating compensation does not equate to some fictitious desire to keep the working class down. In a negotiation over wages labor is always going think their worth more and business is always going to pay less and the market determines something in the middle that isn't exactly what either parties want. The question is why is labor's position that they should be paid more, more valid than business position to pay as little as possible? How can you be so obtuse as not to not see that a laborer is never going to, nor should they get paid exactly what they want anymore than a business is going to get to pay labor exactly what they want. The fact that you want more doesn't mean you're entitled to more.

The market for labor in China is a buck an hour or less. Shouldn't Americans be paid about the same, if they're doing about the same as a Chinese worker is?

 

[Dubya]

Let's try some facts about minimum wage!

Only 58.3 percent of all wage and salary workers are paid hourly wages.

Source: Characteristics of Minimum Wage Workers: 2009

Of those 58.3% who are paid hourly wages, 2.2% were paid minimum wage or below minimum wage in 2006.

Source: Table #10 Tables 1 - 10; Characteristics of Minimum Wage Workers: 2009

Those are BLS statistics and not something from a bullshit blog. The amount of people receiving minimum wage or below minimum wage has recently been on the increase, but it's historically declined and declined significantly. The data from table #10 shows how the amount of people paid minimum wage and below minimum wage declined from 15.1% in 1980 to 2.2% in 2006. Notice it has increased to 4.9% in 2009. I imagine the BLS has more recent tables than this one I've kept in my favorites, but these old stats aren't going to change.

If you look at all the tables for 2009, you will discover the general concept of who is a minimum wage worker is incorrect. I've heard people claim minimum wage workers are teenagers, but only 29.4% are in their teens. 62.4% of minimum wage workers are women 16 years and older. 62.7% of mimimum wage workers are high school graduates or more, so they can't be the kids making you a burger like people believe. 3.4% of the minimum wage workers are college graduates with a bachelor's degree or more. 62.3% of minimum wage workers were never married and 23.6% are married with spouse present. You will also notice minimum wage workers are seldom full time workers, because companies need them to fill in for absentees and they don't want to pay overtime.

I look at life like this. If I go somewhere and do anything necessary for my existence, I should pay the people involved enough money for their existence. Think of all the things a person spends their money on and all the jobs necessary for that product to exist and someone to sell it to you. To me, all those people are necessary and if I have to pay more for that product, instead of lord over another human being, I choose to pay more. I want the person who rings a product up on a cash register to earn a living wage and not be eligible for social programs to subsidize a business paying someone substandard wages. A business that isn't paying it's employees enough to live isn't doing it's job and is being subsidized by the government. Our society also has it's working poor and they shouldn't have to get two or three jobs and work 3,500 hours per year to make a living without government assistance. If we need them to do a job, we should properly pay them and treat them with respect.

 

[Dubya]

and how do you plan to do that exactly.....?

i suggest for starters that you tell your prez BO to STOP subsidizing GE to the tune of millions of OUR TAX DOLLARS and which is now producing in China and other foreign places instead of the USA and who is allowing the Chinese to grab all of our state-of-the-art industrial know-how....

another idea might be to STOP BO from allowing the Chinese to buy up huge chunks of our public land oil and gas industry...

When you can't deal with facts, change the subject, right?

Let's try to face reality for a change! Do you have any idea why the right-wing yaps about GE? GE once owned NBC, which owned MSNBC, but that is very old news, because NBC was sold to Comcast years ago. GE is a conglomerate and they just don't donate to the Democrats, they donate like all hugh corporations to both parties. The last time I checked, when fools were yapping about GE, GE donated more to Republicans than Democrats. GE had a large financial division that suffered in the financial crisis, just like all the other corporations, so it received TARP funds and paid it back with interest. How is that a subsidy? The whole thing about GE is just FOX news bullshit. All those corporations that receive TARP funds were too big to fail and the failure was allowing these corporations to get in that mess to begin with. The failure was caused by Republican legislation, like GLBA and CFMA. The failure involved a Republican administration suppressing regulation by agencies like the SEC and allowing bonds to be traded on the bond market with the highest triple A rating that obviously weren't worth that rating. These bonds were backed by worthless credit default swaps (CDSs) and not real money. They should have never had a triple A rating and they wouldn't without the changes made by Republican legislation, namely the CFMA. Before then CDSs were prohibited in states by gambling laws. It's the job of the SEC to regulate these markets, so why was the SEC during the Bush administration sleeping on the job? Did that ideology against government regulation profit this country?

Getting back on subject, all we have to do is change all those stupid free trade agreements back to fair trade agreements and negotiate our way to change our trade policies. We let the corporations know they will have to produce their products in America or they will lose their ability to import to our market. Other countries don't allow American corporations to make their products in America and import them, unless that's the only choice and they make American corporations set up shop in their countries, so they can produce their own goods, with their own labor. We need to do exactly the same thing with corporations supplying us with imports. If a corporation wants to sell their product here, they have to make it here. It's our government's responsibilty to exercise sovereignty over our market and not permit a country or corporation to abuse our market. Originally, that was the only means of funding the federal government and it's written in the Constitution. It's government doing it's job.

i wasn't changing the subject.....i was asking you how you would specifically address the problem....finally you answered and it appears you'd rather throw our economy into a recession by blocking free trade....

to help our economy i would rather...

create a competitive corporate tax rate
cut regulation red tape
reduce government borrowing and spending
stop selling out American assets to the the Chinese

regarding Government Motors.....it still owes US money.....so pay up already....the banks already did...or was the Volt fiasco so bad it can't...?

Now you are changing GE to GM and you want us to believe you know something about economics? Stopping these stupid free trade practices would do the opposite of putting us into a recession, but all your right-wing economic policies are the opposite of a healthy economy. That's why Republicans crash the American economy or always have slow growth. How many Hoovers does it take for you right-winger to wise up? All your right-wing bitching about corporations is a product of what you right-wingers did to our economy and those corporations.

What you recommend will cause a recession and it's all right-wing propaganda. Our corporate tax rate is one of the lowest in the world when all the loopholes are factored in and that's usually called the effective corporate tax rate, which is what is paid. Figure it out, the rate isn't what is paid and the effective rate is what is paid. You're just asking for a corporation that has low effective rates to get lower effective rates.

You want to cut government spending which has to reduce GDP and claim that's the way to prosperity. If GDP declines for three consecutive months, that's called a recession. How is doing something to cause a recession a smart idea?

There is very little regulation red tape and that excuse usually involves regulations to prevent another Enron scam. Scamming doesn't help the American economy, but that's what the right-wing is all about.

stop selling out American assets to the the Chinese

What about we should stop giving the Chinese all those extra trade dollars to buy American assets and they are only called American assets because an American owns them? Why are we buying so many products from China that can easily be made in America? I've seen plenty of examples where American made products sold for the same price or less than these foreign products. Why not have the jobs here stimulating our economy, instead of making some rich asshole more money? When a business only has the choice to sell on our market with the condition they have to produce the product in our country, they will change their practices to do business in America. Business is great at adapting to the market and following the rules, when they are given the rules of the market and not allowed to break the rules. The rules of our market should be the same as the rules in foreign markets. Foreign countries don't allow their markets to be exploited by imports and we shouldn't allow it. Foreign countries make a corporation set up shop in their countries.

 

[asterism]

Let's try some facts about minimum wage!

Only 58.3 percent of all wage and salary workers are paid hourly wages.

Source: Characteristics of Minimum Wage Workers: 2009

Of those 58.3% who are paid hourly wages, 2.2% were paid minimum wage or below minimum wage in 2006.

Source: Table #10 Tables 1 - 10; Characteristics of Minimum Wage Workers: 2009

Those are BLS statistics and not something from a bullshit blog. The amount of people receiving minimum wage or below minimum wage has recently been on the increase, but it's historically declined and declined significantly. The data from table #10 shows how the amount of people paid minimum wage and below minimum wage declined from 15.1% in 1980 to 2.2% in 2006. Notice it has increased to 4.9% in 2009. I imagine the BLS has more recent tables than this one I've kept in my favorites, but these old stats aren't going to change.

If you look at all the tables for 2009, you will discover the general concept of who is a minimum wage worker is incorrect. I've heard people claim minimum wage workers are teenagers, but only 29.4% are in their teens. 62.4% of minimum wage workers are women 16 years and older. 62.7% of mimimum wage workers are high school graduates or more, so they can't be the kids making you a burger like people believe. 3.4% of the minimum wage workers are college graduates with a bachelor's degree or more. 62.3% of minimum wage workers were never married and 23.6% are married with spouse present. You will also notice minimum wage workers are seldom full time workers, because companies need them to fill in for absentees and they don't want to pay overtime.

I look at life like this. If I go somewhere and do anything necessary for my existence, I should pay the people involved enough money for their existence. Think of all the things a person spends their money on and all the jobs necessary for that product to exist and someone to sell it to you. To me, all those people are necessary and if I have to pay more for that product, instead of lord over another human being, I choose to pay more. I want the person who rings a product up on a cash register to earn a living wage and not be eligible for social programs to subsidize a business paying someone substandard wages. A business that isn't paying it's employees enough to live isn't doing it's job and is being subsidized by the government. Our society also has it's working poor and they shouldn't have to get two or three jobs and work 3,500 hours per year to make a living without government assistance. If we need them to do a job, we should properly pay them and treat them with respect.

What size tip do you leave on a $50 dinner bill?


How much do you tip a $20 check?

 

[Dubya]

Let's try some facts about minimum wage!

Only 58.3 percent of all wage and salary workers are paid hourly wages.

Source: Characteristics of Minimum Wage Workers: 2009

Of those 58.3% who are paid hourly wages, 2.2% were paid minimum wage or below minimum wage in 2006.

Source: Table #10 Tables 1 - 10; Characteristics of Minimum Wage Workers: 2009

Those are BLS statistics and not something from a bullshit blog. The amount of people receiving minimum wage or below minimum wage has recently been on the increase, but it's historically declined and declined significantly. The data from table #10 shows how the amount of people paid minimum wage and below minimum wage declined from 15.1% in 1980 to 2.2% in 2006. Notice it has increased to 4.9% in 2009. I imagine the BLS has more recent tables than this one I've kept in my favorites, but these old stats aren't going to change.

If you look at all the tables for 2009, you will discover the general concept of who is a minimum wage worker is incorrect. I've heard people claim minimum wage workers are teenagers, but only 29.4% are in their teens. 62.4% of minimum wage workers are women 16 years and older. 62.7% of mimimum wage workers are high school graduates or more, so they can't be the kids making you a burger like people believe. 3.4% of the minimum wage workers are college graduates with a bachelor's degree or more. 62.3% of minimum wage workers were never married and 23.6% are married with spouse present. You will also notice minimum wage workers are seldom full time workers, because companies need them to fill in for absentees and they don't want to pay overtime.

I look at life like this. If I go somewhere and do anything necessary for my existence, I should pay the people involved enough money for their existence. Think of all the things a person spends their money on and all the jobs necessary for that product to exist and someone to sell it to you. To me, all those people are necessary and if I have to pay more for that product, instead of lord over another human being, I choose to pay more. I want the person who rings a product up on a cash register to earn a living wage and not be eligible for social programs to subsidize a business paying someone substandard wages. A business that isn't paying it's employees enough to live isn't doing it's job and is being subsidized by the government. Our society also has it's working poor and they shouldn't have to get two or three jobs and work 3,500 hours per year to make a living without government assistance. If we need them to do a job, we should properly pay them and treat them with respect.

What size tip do you leave on a $50 dinner bill?


How much do you tip a $20 check?

$15-$20

$5-$7

If it's food and a little more if it's drinks and more work is involved.

 

[asterism]

Let's try some facts about minimum wage!

Only 58.3 percent of all wage and salary workers are paid hourly wages.

Source: Characteristics of Minimum Wage Workers: 2009

Of those 58.3% who are paid hourly wages, 2.2% were paid minimum wage or below minimum wage in 2006.

Source: Table #10 Tables 1 - 10; Characteristics of Minimum Wage Workers: 2009

Those are BLS statistics and not something from a bullshit blog. The amount of people receiving minimum wage or below minimum wage has recently been on the increase, but it's historically declined and declined significantly. The data from table #10 shows how the amount of people paid minimum wage and below minimum wage declined from 15.1% in 1980 to 2.2% in 2006. Notice it has increased to 4.9% in 2009. I imagine the BLS has more recent tables than this one I've kept in my favorites, but these old stats aren't going to change.

If you look at all the tables for 2009, you will discover the general concept of who is a minimum wage worker is incorrect. I've heard people claim minimum wage workers are teenagers, but only 29.4% are in their teens. 62.4% of minimum wage workers are women 16 years and older. 62.7% of mimimum wage workers are high school graduates or more, so they can't be the kids making you a burger like people believe. 3.4% of the minimum wage workers are college graduates with a bachelor's degree or more. 62.3% of minimum wage workers were never married and 23.6% are married with spouse present. You will also notice minimum wage workers are seldom full time workers, because companies need them to fill in for absentees and they don't want to pay overtime.

I look at life like this. If I go somewhere and do anything necessary for my existence, I should pay the people involved enough money for their existence. Think of all the things a person spends their money on and all the jobs necessary for that product to exist and someone to sell it to you. To me, all those people are necessary and if I have to pay more for that product, instead of lord over another human being, I choose to pay more. I want the person who rings a product up on a cash register to earn a living wage and not be eligible for social programs to subsidize a business paying someone substandard wages. A business that isn't paying it's employees enough to live isn't doing it's job and is being subsidized by the government. Our society also has it's working poor and they shouldn't have to get two or three jobs and work 3,500 hours per year to make a living without government assistance. If we need them to do a job, we should properly pay them and treat them with respect.

What size tip do you leave on a $50 dinner bill?


How much do you tip a $20 check?

$15-$20

$5-$7

If it's food and a little more if it's drinks and more work is involved.

Kudos for tipping well.

What does the $50 per meal server do that's so much harder than the $20 meal server?

 

[Dubya]

What size tip do you leave on a $50 dinner bill?


How much do you tip a $20 check?

$15-$20

$5-$7

If it's food and a little more if it's drinks and more work is involved.

Kudos for tipping well.

What does the $50 per meal server do that's so much harder than the $20 meal server?

They found a better place to work with higher prices.

When I was young I followed the percentages and expected good service for a tip. I didn't know wait people relied on tips for their income, so I made it up for it once I found out. On drinks, I'm a very good tipper and if given good service in a restaurant, I'm a very good tipper. I usually eat alone and at the bar. My normal practice would be to have a meal and pay for the tab, so I can use dollars to assess how much I drink if I drink beer, by placing a dollar for each drink in a tip position, even if it's on another tab. That way I always know how many drinks I have had. With few exceptions, being a good tipper will get you good service.

 

[JoeNormal]

What planet do you live on where you believe this to be a good idea?

Beyond that when I take on commercial work I often have to hire temporary help. Help that picks up debris or does simple meanial tasks. Definitely not worthy of the 20+ dollar an hour cost it would end up being going though a temp agency. I simply wouldnt hire while others would resort to illegal under the table practices.

Do you need these people or not? If you don't really need them then don't hire them. If you do then pay them a wage that would sustain a human being.

 

[candycorn]

^ so stupid that the nations largest employer- WallyWorld has 10's of thousands receiving food stamps Righties.

PolitiFact | Alan Grayson says more Walmart employees on Medicaid, food stamps than other companies

If there is one argument against the GOP that resonates across demographics it's this one.

They're against abortion, right? So they are against the funding of contraception. The result of which will lead to more pregnancies and, of course, more abortion.

They're against making Wal Mart pay a living wage to their employees. But they are also against robust (or any in most cases) social safety nets for those who are the working poor--the same safety nets that subsidize Wal*Mart's low wages; and those of Target, Ross, Lowes, etc...

They're against any mention of sane limitations on the purchase of guns. One of the arguments that gets repeated over and over are that the guns are necessary to prevent the government from enslaving it's people. Yet many (if not most) are against any cuts in the military spending--the same military they live in constant fear of.

Very few are against social safety nets. Most on the right are against the social safety hammock.

Walmart isn't subsidized by social programs, it just educates it's employees on the government programs out there. That's something the mom&pop stores that paid the same low wages didn't do.

You're making a distinction without making a difference. When those who work at Wal*Mart, Target, Chuck-E-Cheese etc have to rely on public assistance, that is simply wrong.

 

[Dubya]

^ so stupid that the nations largest employer- WallyWorld has 10's of thousands receiving food stamps Righties.

PolitiFact | Alan Grayson says more Walmart employees on Medicaid, food stamps than other companies

If there is one argument against the GOP that resonates across demographics it's this one.

They're against abortion, right? So they are against the funding of contraception. The result of which will lead to more pregnancies and, of course, more abortion.

They're against making Wal Mart pay a living wage to their employees. But they are also against robust (or any in most cases) social safety nets for those who are the working poor--the same safety nets that subsidize Wal*Mart's low wages; and those of Target, Ross, Lowes, etc...

They're against any mention of sane limitations on the purchase of guns. One of the arguments that gets repeated over and over are that the guns are necessary to prevent the government from enslaving it's people. Yet many (if not most) are against any cuts in the military spending--the same military they live in constant fear of.

Very few are against social safety nets. Most on the right are against the social safety hammock.

Walmart isn't subsidized by social programs, it just educates it's employees on the government programs out there. That's something the mom&pop stores that paid the same low wages didn't do.

Let's just cut the bullshit and keep it simple! If you want something, then you should pay for it and if you need someone to do a job so you can have it, you should pay for them to have a living. Life is a requirement for what you need, so grow the fuck up and pay your own way!

 

[candycorn]

Ever think that the employees of OTHER people will now have a little bit more money, and thus, maybe you'll get more customers as a result since they have more to spend? Sure, that'll mean you gotta have a good product to sale. But, Im sure you do.

We've increased the min wage many times before. We'll be fine. The righties just cant help but react with anger out of greed.

When I was a teenager, in the 50's, we had young men and women as ushers in movies. We had young men and women pumping gas and putting air in tires. We had teenagers sweeping floors and stocking shelves in markets. There were numerous opportunities for after school jobs, for high school kids to make some pocket money and learn what it took to stay employed. The congress raised the minimum wage, and almost all of those jobs have disappeared.

Do you really think we are better off for that increase in the minimum wage?

When I was a teen in the 1990's we had young men and women working in the cineplexes (and still do). We have teens sweeping floors and stocking shelves at super markets (and still do).

There is a funny story about one such teen named Juan Cruz who was sent to Indiana to work on a "tear down" of one of our DC's. Juan Cruz was 18 years old. Juan and about 70 others like him were flown to Gary, IN to help tear down a Distribution Center that was re-opening somewhere else. His job was to break down shelving, box up supply, and basically vacate the building.

Anyway, he was there working on the first day (he had landed that morning) and this woman comes in who is a cheauffer for one of the hotels in Chicago. She asks for a John Krewes. Juan, who goes by the name of John ID's himself as John Cruz. She asks him to follow her and they get on this private charter bus (the kind you see at airports I guess) and is taken to a hotel in downtown Chicago. Juan had never stayed in a hotel before and thought it was part of the deal that you got room service, a robe, an off-room bar, etc... The next night, he was at, I think, the Hampton Inn outside of Gary and Vice President of Operations, John Krewes was comfortably sipping chablis from his suite in Chicago. Supposedly the other big-whigs got a kick out of seeing the VP be mistaken for Juan and this kid be treated to the ritz.

Kids (nor grown-ups) are pumping gas any longer.

Your post is bullshit.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

When you can't deal with facts, change the subject, right?

Let's try to face reality for a change! Do you have any idea why the right-wing yaps about GE? GE once owned NBC, which owned MSNBC, but that is very old news, because NBC was sold to Comcast years ago. GE is a conglomerate and they just don't donate to the Democrats, they donate like all hugh corporations to both parties. The last time I checked, when fools were yapping about GE, GE donated more to Republicans than Democrats. GE had a large financial division that suffered in the financial crisis, just like all the other corporations, so it received TARP funds and paid it back with interest. How is that a subsidy? The whole thing about GE is just FOX news bullshit. All those corporations that receive TARP funds were too big to fail and the failure was allowing these corporations to get in that mess to begin with. The failure was caused by Republican legislation, like GLBA and CFMA. The failure involved a Republican administration suppressing regulation by agencies like the SEC and allowing bonds to be traded on the bond market with the highest triple A rating that obviously weren't worth that rating. These bonds were backed by worthless credit default swaps (CDSs) and not real money. They should have never had a triple A rating and they wouldn't without the changes made by Republican legislation, namely the CFMA. Before then CDSs were prohibited in states by gambling laws. It's the job of the SEC to regulate these markets, so why was the SEC during the Bush administration sleeping on the job? Did that ideology against government regulation profit this country?

Getting back on subject, all we have to do is change all those stupid free trade agreements back to fair trade agreements and negotiate our way to change our trade policies. We let the corporations know they will have to produce their products in America or they will lose their ability to import to our market. Other countries don't allow American corporations to make their products in America and import them, unless that's the only choice and they make American corporations set up shop in their countries, so they can produce their own goods, with their own labor. We need to do exactly the same thing with corporations supplying us with imports. If a corporation wants to sell their product here, they have to make it here. It's our government's responsibilty to exercise sovereignty over our market and not permit a country or corporation to abuse our market. Originally, that was the only means of funding the federal government and it's written in the Constitution. It's government doing it's job.

i wasn't changing the subject.....i was asking you how you would specifically address the problem....finally you answered and it appears you'd rather throw our economy into a recession by blocking free trade....

to help our economy i would rather...

create a competitive corporate tax rate
cut regulation red tape
reduce government borrowing and spending
stop selling out American assets to the the Chinese

regarding Government Motors.....it still owes US money.....so pay up already....the banks already did...or was the Volt fiasco so bad it can't...?

Now you are changing GE to GM and you want us to believe you know something about economics? Stopping these stupid free trade practices would do the opposite of putting us into a recession, but all your right-wing economic policies are the opposite of a healthy economy. That's why Republicans crash the American economy or always have slow growth. How many Hoovers does it take for you right-winger to wise up? All your right-wing bitching about corporations is a product of what you right-wingers did to our economy and those corporations.

What you recommend will cause a recession and it's all right-wing propaganda. Our corporate tax rate is one of the lowest in the world when all the loopholes are factored in and that's usually called the effective corporate tax rate, which is what is paid. Figure it out, the rate isn't what is paid and the effective rate is what is paid. You're just asking for a corporation that has low effective rates to get lower effective rates.

You want to cut government spending which has to reduce GDP and claim that's the way to prosperity. If GDP declines for three consecutive months, that's called a recession. How is doing something to cause a recession a smart idea?

There is very little regulation red tape and that excuse usually involves regulations to prevent another Enron scam. Scamming doesn't help the American economy, but that's what the right-wing is all about.

stop selling out American assets to the the Chinese

What about we should stop giving the Chinese all those extra trade dollars to buy American assets and they are only called American assets because an American owns them? Why are we buying so many products from China that can easily be made in America? I've seen plenty of examples where American made products sold for the same price or less than these foreign products. Why not have the jobs here stimulating our economy, instead of making some rich asshole more money? When a business only has the choice to sell on our market with the condition they have to produce the product in our country, they will change their practices to do business in America. Business is great at adapting to the market and following the rules, when they are given the rules of the market and not allowed to break the rules. The rules of our market should be the same as the rules in foreign markets. Foreign countries don't allow their markets to be exploited by imports and we shouldn't allow it. Foreign countries make a corporation set up shop in their countries.

my bad....i mixed up GE with GM....but the principle remains the same.....both are beneficiaries of Big Government who subsidizes them.....instead of promoting a free competitive market we have BO pushing his 'green' ideas upon the market.....for example by using our Tax Money to subsidize GE and then banning incandescent bulbs (more regulation)....so the GE lightbulb plant in Virginia shuts down which creates JOB LOSS.....and the kicker is most of the dangerous-to-the-environment $50 CFL bulbs are being made in China....a free market would never permit this kind of top-down idiocy....

free trade encourages growth and promotes innovation and competition....and it promotes economic freedom....which promotes freedom overall....

the free market has actually been raising labor wages in China so they aren't the cheapest anymore......in fact many of the cheap products are now being produced in other more competitive Asian countries like Tailand and Vietnam....and some of the companies are even coming back to the U.S.......and like the US has been doing, China is now in the process of gearing alot of its manufacturing to better more innovative and expensive products....

change is hard for some.....and some industries suffer from competition.....but attempting to control economic trade from the White House just leaves us with high taxes and stupid lightbulbs.....

 

[Dubya]

Ever think that the employees of OTHER people will now have a little bit more money, and thus, maybe you'll get more customers as a result since they have more to spend? Sure, that'll mean you gotta have a good product to sale. But, Im sure you do.

We've increased the min wage many times before. We'll be fine. The righties just cant help but react with anger out of greed.

When I was a teenager, in the 50's, we had young men and women as ushers in movies. We had young men and women pumping gas and putting air in tires. We had teenagers sweeping floors and stocking shelves in markets. There were numerous opportunities for after school jobs, for high school kids to make some pocket money and learn what it took to stay employed. The congress raised the minimum wage, and almost all of those jobs have disappeared.

Do you really think we are better off for that increase in the minimum wage?

Chirp on this one, El Scabo!

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-qakWaqnwg]Small Plastic Boxes With Golden Chirping Crickets - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Dubya]

i wasn't changing the subject.....i was asking you how you would specifically address the problem....finally you answered and it appears you'd rather throw our economy into a recession by blocking free trade....

to help our economy i would rather...

create a competitive corporate tax rate
cut regulation red tape
reduce government borrowing and spending
stop selling out American assets to the the Chinese

regarding Government Motors.....it still owes US money.....so pay up already....the banks already did...or was the Volt fiasco so bad it can't...?

Now you are changing GE to GM and you want us to believe you know something about economics? Stopping these stupid free trade practices would do the opposite of putting us into a recession, but all your right-wing economic policies are the opposite of a healthy economy. That's why Republicans crash the American economy or always have slow growth. How many Hoovers does it take for you right-winger to wise up? All your right-wing bitching about corporations is a product of what you right-wingers did to our economy and those corporations.

What you recommend will cause a recession and it's all right-wing propaganda. Our corporate tax rate is one of the lowest in the world when all the loopholes are factored in and that's usually called the effective corporate tax rate, which is what is paid. Figure it out, the rate isn't what is paid and the effective rate is what is paid. You're just asking for a corporation that has low effective rates to get lower effective rates.

You want to cut government spending which has to reduce GDP and claim that's the way to prosperity. If GDP declines for three consecutive months, that's called a recession. How is doing something to cause a recession a smart idea?

There is very little regulation red tape and that excuse usually involves regulations to prevent another Enron scam. Scamming doesn't help the American economy, but that's what the right-wing is all about.

stop selling out American assets to the the Chinese

What about we should stop giving the Chinese all those extra trade dollars to buy American assets and they are only called American assets because an American owns them? Why are we buying so many products from China that can easily be made in America? I've seen plenty of examples where American made products sold for the same price or less than these foreign products. Why not have the jobs here stimulating our economy, instead of making some rich asshole more money? When a business only has the choice to sell on our market with the condition they have to produce the product in our country, they will change their practices to do business in America. Business is great at adapting to the market and following the rules, when they are given the rules of the market and not allowed to break the rules. The rules of our market should be the same as the rules in foreign markets. Foreign countries don't allow their markets to be exploited by imports and we shouldn't allow it. Foreign countries make a corporation set up shop in their countries.

my bad....i mixed up GE with GM....but the principle remains the same.....both are beneficiaries of Big Government who subsidizes them.....instead of promoting a free competitive market we have BO pushing his 'green' ideas upon the market.....for example by using our Tax Money to subsidize GE and then banning incandescent bulbs (more regulation)....so the GE lightbulb plant in Virginia shuts down which creates JOB LOSS.....and the kicker is most of the dangerous-to-the-environment $50 CFL bulbs are being made in China....a free market would never permit this kind of top-down idiocy....

free trade encourages growth and promotes innovation and competition....and it promotes economic freedom....which promotes freedom overall....

the free market has actually been raising labor wages in China so they aren't the cheapest anymore......in fact many of the cheap products are now being produced in other more competitive Asian countries like Tailand and Vietnam....and some of the companies are even coming back to the U.S.......like the US has been doing China is now in the process of gearing alot of its manufacturing to better more innovative and expensive products....

change is hard for some.....and some industries suffer from competition.....but attempting to control economic trade from the White House just leaves us with high taxes and stupid lightbulbs.....

Post proof of a subsidy! A loan paid back with interest is not a subsidy.

 

[ScreamingEagle]

Now you are changing GE to GM and you want us to believe you know something about economics? Stopping these stupid free trade practices would do the opposite of putting us into a recession, but all your right-wing economic policies are the opposite of a healthy economy. That's why Republicans crash the American economy or always have slow growth. How many Hoovers does it take for you right-winger to wise up? All your right-wing bitching about corporations is a product of what you right-wingers did to our economy and those corporations.

What you recommend will cause a recession and it's all right-wing propaganda. Our corporate tax rate is one of the lowest in the world when all the loopholes are factored in and that's usually called the effective corporate tax rate, which is what is paid. Figure it out, the rate isn't what is paid and the effective rate is what is paid. You're just asking for a corporation that has low effective rates to get lower effective rates.

You want to cut government spending which has to reduce GDP and claim that's the way to prosperity. If GDP declines for three consecutive months, that's called a recession. How is doing something to cause a recession a smart idea?

There is very little regulation red tape and that excuse usually involves regulations to prevent another Enron scam. Scamming doesn't help the American economy, but that's what the right-wing is all about.



What about we should stop giving the Chinese all those extra trade dollars to buy American assets and they are only called American assets because an American owns them? Why are we buying so many products from China that can easily be made in America? I've seen plenty of examples where American made products sold for the same price or less than these foreign products. Why not have the jobs here stimulating our economy, instead of making some rich asshole more money? When a business only has the choice to sell on our market with the condition they have to produce the product in our country, they will change their practices to do business in America. Business is great at adapting to the market and following the rules, when they are given the rules of the market and not allowed to break the rules. The rules of our market should be the same as the rules in foreign markets. Foreign countries don't allow their markets to be exploited by imports and we shouldn't allow it. Foreign countries make a corporation set up shop in their countries.

my bad....i mixed up GE with GM....but the principle remains the same.....both are beneficiaries of Big Government who subsidizes them.....instead of promoting a free competitive market we have BO pushing his 'green' ideas upon the market.....for example by using our Tax Money to subsidize GE and then banning incandescent bulbs (more regulation)....so the GE lightbulb plant in Virginia shuts down which creates JOB LOSS.....and the kicker is most of the dangerous-to-the-environment $50 CFL bulbs are being made in China....a free market would never permit this kind of top-down idiocy....

free trade encourages growth and promotes innovation and competition....and it promotes economic freedom....which promotes freedom overall....

the free market has actually been raising labor wages in China so they aren't the cheapest anymore......in fact many of the cheap products are now being produced in other more competitive Asian countries like Tailand and Vietnam....and some of the companies are even coming back to the U.S.......like the US has been doing China is now in the process of gearing alot of its manufacturing to better more innovative and expensive products....

change is hard for some.....and some industries suffer from competition.....but attempting to control economic trade from the White House just leaves us with high taxes and stupid lightbulbs.....

Post proof of a subsidy! A loan paid back with interest is not a subsidy.

are you kidding....? Obama and Immelt are in the 'green' together...

The Unholy Marriage Of GE And President Obama At The Altar Of Industrial Policy - Forbes

 

[KissMy]

^ so stupid that the nations largest employer- WallyWorld has 10's of thousands receiving food stamps Righties.

PolitiFact | Alan Grayson says more Walmart employees on Medicaid, food stamps than other companies

In Ohio, the state Department of Job and Family Services report found Wal-Mart to be the state’s top employer for workers and family members who receive Medicaid (16,098), food stamps (14,799) and cash assistance (803), according to January 2012 numbers.

Minimum wage should only be enough to keep worker families out of poverty & off of the government dole. That is about $11.24/hr or $23,050 a year. If we raise it more than that we run the risk of wage inflation. It should be indexed to the average household poverty level. Working families should not be on the government tit. It trains them to rely on government support instead of their work.

 

[asterism]

$15-$20

$5-$7

If it's food and a little more if it's drinks and more work is involved.

Kudos for tipping well.

What does the $50 per meal server do that's so much harder than the $20 meal server?

They found a better place to work with higher prices.

When I was young I followed the percentages and expected good service for a tip. I didn't know wait people relied on tips for their income, so I made it up for it once I found out. On drinks, I'm a very good tipper and if given good service in a restaurant, I'm a very good tipper. I usually eat alone and at the bar. My normal practice would be to have a meal and pay for the tab, so I can use dollars to assess how much I drink if I drink beer, by placing a dollar for each drink in a tip position, even if it's on another tab. That way I always know how many drinks I have had. With few exceptions, being a good tipper will get you good service.

I always tip well, except in the rare occasion where the server shows contempt. Otherwise, I tip fairly and make constructive criticism if there is a problem. I tip more if it's a slow day to show appreciation. I don't think I've gotten bad service in 5 years.

Tipping the bartender well is just a good way to make sure your drink is remembered and on the way as you are finishing the one you have.

 

[asterism]

If there is one argument against the GOP that resonates across demographics it's this one.

They're against abortion, right? So they are against the funding of contraception. The result of which will lead to more pregnancies and, of course, more abortion.

They're against making Wal Mart pay a living wage to their employees. But they are also against robust (or any in most cases) social safety nets for those who are the working poor--the same safety nets that subsidize Wal*Mart's low wages; and those of Target, Ross, Lowes, etc...

They're against any mention of sane limitations on the purchase of guns. One of the arguments that gets repeated over and over are that the guns are necessary to prevent the government from enslaving it's people. Yet many (if not most) are against any cuts in the military spending--the same military they live in constant fear of.

Very few are against social safety nets. Most on the right are against the social safety hammock.

Walmart isn't subsidized by social programs, it just educates it's employees on the government programs out there. That's something the mom&pop stores that paid the same low wages didn't do.

You're making a distinction without making a difference. When those who work at Wal*Mart, Target, Chuck-E-Cheese etc have to rely on public assistance, that is simply wrong.

Not everyone needs to subsist on low wage jobs but they should not be precluded from doing low wage work due to a social agenda.

 

[asterism]

If there is one argument against the GOP that resonates across demographics it's this one.

They're against abortion, right? So they are against the funding of contraception. The result of which will lead to more pregnancies and, of course, more abortion.

They're against making Wal Mart pay a living wage to their employees. But they are also against robust (or any in most cases) social safety nets for those who are the working poor--the same safety nets that subsidize Wal*Mart's low wages; and those of Target, Ross, Lowes, etc...

They're against any mention of sane limitations on the purchase of guns. One of the arguments that gets repeated over and over are that the guns are necessary to prevent the government from enslaving it's people. Yet many (if not most) are against any cuts in the military spending--the same military they live in constant fear of.

Very few are against social safety nets. Most on the right are against the social safety hammock.

Walmart isn't subsidized by social programs, it just educates it's employees on the government programs out there. That's something the mom&pop stores that paid the same low wages didn't do.

Let's just cut the bullshit and keep it simple! If you want something, then you should pay for it and if you need someone to do a job so you can have it, you should pay for them to have a living. Life is a requirement for what you need, so grow the fuck up and pay your own way!

Unfortunately, aggregate demand and operating margins don't work that way. Mandating a subsistence level wage for every job will just cause many of those opportunities to disappear. That doesn't help those on the bottom rung of the ladder at all.

 

[asterism]

Now you are changing GE to GM and you want us to believe you know something about economics? Stopping these stupid free trade practices would do the opposite of putting us into a recession, but all your right-wing economic policies are the opposite of a healthy economy. That's why Republicans crash the American economy or always have slow growth. How many Hoovers does it take for you right-winger to wise up? All your right-wing bitching about corporations is a product of what you right-wingers did to our economy and those corporations.

What you recommend will cause a recession and it's all right-wing propaganda. Our corporate tax rate is one of the lowest in the world when all the loopholes are factored in and that's usually called the effective corporate tax rate, which is what is paid. Figure it out, the rate isn't what is paid and the effective rate is what is paid. You're just asking for a corporation that has low effective rates to get lower effective rates.

You want to cut government spending which has to reduce GDP and claim that's the way to prosperity. If GDP declines for three consecutive months, that's called a recession. How is doing something to cause a recession a smart idea?

There is very little regulation red tape and that excuse usually involves regulations to prevent another Enron scam. Scamming doesn't help the American economy, but that's what the right-wing is all about.



What about we should stop giving the Chinese all those extra trade dollars to buy American assets and they are only called American assets because an American owns them? Why are we buying so many products from China that can easily be made in America? I've seen plenty of examples where American made products sold for the same price or less than these foreign products. Why not have the jobs here stimulating our economy, instead of making some rich asshole more money? When a business only has the choice to sell on our market with the condition they have to produce the product in our country, they will change their practices to do business in America. Business is great at adapting to the market and following the rules, when they are given the rules of the market and not allowed to break the rules. The rules of our market should be the same as the rules in foreign markets. Foreign countries don't allow their markets to be exploited by imports and we shouldn't allow it. Foreign countries make a corporation set up shop in their countries.

my bad....i mixed up GE with GM....but the principle remains the same.....both are beneficiaries of Big Government who subsidizes them.....instead of promoting a free competitive market we have BO pushing his 'green' ideas upon the market.....for example by using our Tax Money to subsidize GE and then banning incandescent bulbs (more regulation)....so the GE lightbulb plant in Virginia shuts down which creates JOB LOSS.....and the kicker is most of the dangerous-to-the-environment $50 CFL bulbs are being made in China....a free market would never permit this kind of top-down idiocy....

free trade encourages growth and promotes innovation and competition....and it promotes economic freedom....which promotes freedom overall....

the free market has actually been raising labor wages in China so they aren't the cheapest anymore......in fact many of the cheap products are now being produced in other more competitive Asian countries like Tailand and Vietnam....and some of the companies are even coming back to the U.S.......like the US has been doing China is now in the process of gearing alot of its manufacturing to better more innovative and expensive products....

change is hard for some.....and some industries suffer from competition.....but attempting to control economic trade from the White House just leaves us with high taxes and stupid lightbulbs.....

Post proof of a subsidy! A loan paid back with interest is not a subsidy.

Proof has been posted to you before, even in a thread that you demanded.